Hi Bob & Fred, Thank you for that correction Fred, I didn't know if it was incorrect or if my information was incorrect. My two Hessians Johann Jacob Bonstein on the Trenton and Paulus Bonstein on the Archer, my information had Paulus going to Quebec. I did not know it was the next summer though... Thank you. Nelda Nelda L. Percival nee Gilpin, IBSSG http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/ http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gillock/ http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/

----Original Message Follows---- From: "Bob Brooks" <rcbrooks@pivot.net> To: <AMREV-HESSIANS-L@rootsweb.com>, <Aumag@web.de> Subject: Michelsberg Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 12:27:59 -0600 Also, from Michelsberg I find: Reuther, Justus Heinrich, Korporal, WIS1, born ca. 1751-53, died from non-battle causes Aug 1782. WIS is the HETRINA code for the Garnison-Regiment von Wissenbach (ab 1780 von Knoblauch) The old Marburg citations for manuscripts re: the Regiment von Knyphausen are: Best. 12, Maß- und Rangierlisten, Nr. 398 [1775] Best. 12, Maß- und Rangierlisten, Nr. 399 [1785] Best. 12, blaue Nr. 8843 Monatliche Listen [Regiment v. Knyphausen April 1776 - 1783 Oktober] Best. 4 h 328, No 111-115 Akten des Kriegsgerichts über die Niederlage von Trenton Best, 4 h 410, No 1 monatliche Meldungen und Verlust- und Gefangenenlisten nach der Niederlage von Trenton. Within the past few years, the manuscripts at Marburg have been redesignated; however, I have been told that the old designations are well known to the staff. I am also told that Frau Dr Inge Auerbach, co-chairman of the HETRINA Project, is still at HStA Marburg. I would think that the HETRINA database at HStA Marburg could provide a list of all the men who served in the AWI who came from Michelsberg; however, I don't know if the old database has been brought up to modern standards. HETRINA Bd. I through Bd. IV were based upon card sorts of data encoded on key-punched IBM 80 column cards. There is more information on most of the original records than will be found in the HETRINA records. Additionally, some of the data was "manipulated" in order to develop a coherent report. I hope this is a help to your project. I also hope that perhaps a descendant of these men will contact you. If not, the JSHA files should list points of contact. Bob Brooks ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Merz" <hessian@sympatico.ca> To: <AMREV-HESSIANS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 3:53 PM Subject: [HESSIAN] Re: Chronik of Michelsberg for the 750th anniversary >Forwarded to the AMFREV-HESSIANS mail list: > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Aumag" <Aumag@web.de> >To: <hessian@sympatico.ca> >Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 12:33 PM >Subject: Chronik of Michelsberg for the 750th anniversary > > >>Dear Mr. Merz, >> >>My name is Andreas Göbel and I'm from Michelsberg in Germany. Some >>others and I are working on a chronik of Michelsberg for the 750th >>anniversary of our hometown next year. If you want to know more about >>our little village, you can find some interesting information at >>"www.schwalmstadt-michelsberg.de" on the Internet. >> >>By change I found some information of Georg and Hans Heinrich Vogel and >>Johannes Wickert on the Internet, who came from my hometown Michelsberg. >>I also found your E-Mail address. I write to you now because I hope that >>you can tell me more about Georg and Hans Heinrich Vogel and Johannes >>Wickert. >> >>There history is an interesting theme because today no one in >>Michelsberg knows anything about these men, who were soldiers of the >>hessian troops in the Revolutionary war. You could say, they are "the >>forgotten children" of Michelsberg. Today no "Vogels" but still some >>"Wickerts" live here in Michelsberg. On a map of 1773 you can find the >>names "Johannes Vogell", "Johannes Wickert", "Hanscurt Wickert" and >>"Hermann Wickert". I send it with this message as an attachment. >> >>The house of the Vogel brothers still exists today. It only went through >>minmal changes during the last two hundred centuaries. For many years it >>had been a "Dorfkneipe"(village inn), since 10 years it has become a >>"Künstlerhaus" (arthouse), because two "alternative" artists and their >>family live and work there. They do paintings, form sculptures etc. >>Every year in the summer they organize an artist-happening. Many amateur >>and professional artists from all over Germany come to Michelsberg for >>this happening. Moreover most of the "Wickerts" houses exists today. You >>can find some actual pictures as an attachment to this message. >> >>We would be very happy, if you could give us some information about the >>life of the men from Michelsberg mentioned above and perhaps of other >>men from my hometown, who we do not know at the moment. With your help >>and your information we might be able to write an article about the >>the hessian soldiers from Michelsberg for our chronik so that they >>become a part of our history again. >> >>Many thanks for your help in advance and many greetings from >>Michelsberg ! >> >>Andreas Göbel >> >>P.S.: If you reply my E-Mail please use the word "Michelsberg" in the >> headline(subject), because my spamfilter normaly erases all >> english messages :-)

----Original Message Follows---- From: "Bob Brooks" <rcbrooks@pivot.net> To: <AMREV-HESSIANS-L@rootsweb.com>, <Aumag@web.de> Subject: Michelsberg Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 12:27:59 -0600 Herr Gobel -- The three men from Michelsberg whom you mention all served in America in infantry companies of the Regiment von Knyphausen. The garrison town of that regiment was Ziegenhain and I understand that some early records are at the fortress there; however, the majority of the records of the Regiment von Knyphausen for the period of the American War of Independence are at the Hessisches Staatsarchiv Marburg. The records have been indexed in _Hessische Truppen im Amerikanischen Unabhängigkeitskrieg (HETRINA), Index nach Familiennamen, Bd. III_. HETRINA's code for the Regiment von Knyphausen is KNY followed by the number designating the company; i.e, KNY1 through KNY5. The Regiment von Knyphausen can not be considered a "lucky regiment" because: 1. The majority of the Regiment v. Knyphausen was captured 26 Dec 1776 at Trenton, New Jersey. The Prisoners of War (POWs) were sent originally to Philadelphia and then moved to various locations elsewhere in Pennsylvania. An attempt was made to exchange these POWs in June 1778, just prior to the British evacuation of Philadelphia in mid-June 1778, however, the exchange missed occurring by several days. The exchange finally was made in July and August 1778 in the vicinity of Elizabeth, New Jersey. 2. The Regiment was embarked on three transport ships (ARCHER, MOLLY, and TRITON) bound from New York to Quebec when on 15 Sep 1779 they encountered a hurricane four days after departing New York. The ARCHER was lost with all hands and the TRITON and MOLLY were dismasted and then captured by the Americans off the New Jersey coast. The POWs were sent to Philadelphia, the second time for most of the men. The inormation on the men form Michelsberg that you named includes: Vogel, Georg, Gemeiner, KNY5 (5.Kompanie), born circa 1755-56, from Michelsberg: He was one of those who avoided capture at Trenton; however, he was onboard the MOLLY and taken POW. Johannes Kappes' Tagebuch gives his name as Georg Adam Vogel, born: 1756, residence: Michelsberg, Ziegenhain, height: 5 Fuß 7 Zoll 0 Strich (this is the old Prussian system where 2.62 cm = 1 Zoll = 4 Strich), religion: Reformed, service entry date: 10 June 1773, occupation: Tailor The Johannes Schwalm Historical Association has a file on him which says he deserted 26 Sep 1779 and married Deborah Thomas and remained in America. http://pages.prodigy.net/halschwalm/jshacomb.html The POWs from MOLLY arrived at Philadelphia on 26 Sep 1779. Vogel, Hans Heinrich, Gemeiner, KNY1 (Leibkompanie), born circa 1754-55, Michelsberg. He was among the POWs taken at Trenton and later exchanged. He is probably the "Henrich Voght" of KNY1 who listed on the 17 June POW exchange list dated three days after the evacuation of Philadelphia. If so, then he was employed by Henry Scheffer, Esq., of Heidelberg PA, while a POW. He was lost at sea on the ARCHER circa 15 Sep 1779. Wickert, Johannes, Gemeiner, KNY5 (5.Kompanie), born circa 1751-52, from Michelsberg. He was taken POW at Trenton and probably deserted while a POW as he is not listed as a POW from the MOLLY. Kappes lists him as Johann Daniel Wieckert, born: 1755, residence: Michelsberg, Ziegenhain, height: 5 Fuß 5 Zoll 0 Strich, religion: Reformed, service entry date: 29 June 1774. CAUTION: There were at least two deserters named Johannes Wickert wandering around Pennsylvania in 1778. The JSHA has a file on Johannes Wickert which says: "Hesse-Cassel; Borken; Private; Von Donop Reg., Co. 4; HETRINA Vol. II; Deserted 10 Feb. 1778 from quarters in Philadelphia; Straight line genealogy established." This latter man was born circa 1751-52 and was from Borken who was listed as a deserter in Feb 1778. HETRINA II also lists a Johann Georg Wickert/Wickart, a musician (Hautboist/Trompeter), born circa 1749-1751 from Rinteln or Borken (both places given) who was a member of the Regiment von Loßberg who was taken POW at Trenton. He appears to have been exchanged and to have returned to Germany in 1783. Other men from Michelsberg who served in the Regiment von Knyphausen include: Gerlach, Johan Hienrich, Gemeiner, KNY5, born ca. 1757-58, died from non-battle causes Mar 1777. Kappes lists him as Henrich Gerlach, born: 1758, height: 5 Fuß 5 Zoll 0 Strich, religion: Reformed, "Died." Hoeck, Johannes, Gemeiner, KNY1, born ca. 1757-58, escaped at Trenton, POW on MOLLY, probably deserted in America. Schmidt, Adam, Gemeiner, KNY5, born ca. 1751-52, promoted Korporal Oct 1783. Kappes lists him as Korporal, born: 1752, height: 5 Fuß 7 Zoll 3 Strich, religion: Reformed, service entry date: 1774. It appears that he returned to Germany at the end of the war. There is some confusion in HETRINA III re: Adam Schmidt as it has a Korporal Adam Schmidt, KNY5, from Heringen, on the Trenton POW list and the same Korporal Adam Schmidt of Heringen, born ca. 1736-37 in Germany on the 1785 Stammrolle. I would expect Adam Schmidt to appear either on the Feb 1777 list of Trenton POEs or on the Dec 1776 list of those who escaped captivity. The only other possibilities were that he was sick in the hospital or was in some rear echelon assignment in New York. Likewise, he should have been on the MOLLY with the rest of his company unless, of course, he was left in New York on duty.

Bob, Thank you so much for including a copy to the list. That was a wonderful write up! Nelda Nelda L. Percival nee Gilpin, IBSSG http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/ http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gillock/ http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/

Forwarded to the AMFREV-HESSIANS mail list: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aumag" <Aumag@web.de> To: <hessian@sympatico.ca> Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 12:33 PM Subject: Chronik of Michelsberg for the 750th anniversary > Dear Mr. Merz, > > My name is Andreas Göbel and I'm from Michelsberg in Germany. Some > others and I are working on a chronik of Michelsberg for the 750th > anniversary of our hometown next year. If you want to know more about > our little village, you can find some interesting information at > "www.schwalmstadt-michelsberg.de" on the Internet. > > By change I found some information of Georg and Hans Heinrich Vogel and > Johannes Wickert on the Internet, who came from my hometown Michelsberg. > I also found your E-Mail address. I write to you now because I hope that > you can tell me more about Georg and Hans Heinrich Vogel and Johannes > Wickert. > > There history is an interesting theme because today no one in > Michelsberg knows anything about these men, who were soldiers of the > hessian troops in the Revolutionary war. You could say, they are "the > forgotten children" of Michelsberg. Today no "Vogels" but still some > "Wickerts" live here in Michelsberg. On a map of 1773 you can find the > names "Johannes Vogell", "Johannes Wickert", "Hanscurt Wickert" and > "Hermann Wickert". I send it with this message as an attachment. > > The house of the Vogel brothers still exists today. It only went through > minmal changes during the last two hundred centuaries. For many years it > had been a "Dorfkneipe"(village inn), since 10 years it has become a > "Künstlerhaus" (arthouse), because two "alternative" artists and their > family live and work there. They do paintings, form sculptures etc. > Every year in the summer they organize an artist-happening. Many amateur > and professional artists from all over Germany come to Michelsberg for > this happening. Moreover most of the "Wickerts" houses exists today. You > can find some actual pictures as an attachment to this message. > > We would be very happy, if you could give us some information about the > life of the men from Michelsberg mentioned above and perhaps of other > men from my hometown, who we do not know at the moment. With your help > and your information we might be able to write an article about the > the hessian soldiers from Michelsberg for our chronik so that they > become a part of our history again. > > Many thanks for your help in advance and many greetings from > Michelsberg ! > > Andreas Göbel > > P.S.: If you reply my E-Mail please use the word "Michelsberg" in the > headline(subject), because my spamfilter normaly erases all > english messages :-) > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----

Forwarded to the Hessian soldier list: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diane" <pandreasen@stny.rr.com> To: <hessian@sympatico.ca> Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 4:08 PM > Source: PENNSYLVANIA-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: OSINCUP/OSENCUP/ETC. > > Just in case there are any other folks in the world searching the > OSENCUP/OSINCUP (and other variations) surname, here is a little info on my > line (at least I hope it is!): > > Jacob OSENCOPE d aft 1820 prob. Wilkes-Barre, Luzerne Co.., PA; Ch. Betsey m > Stephen Gilbert BARNES b 1782, Henry, Sarah m BARNES and Nancy b c 1800 m > John LaFRANCE (my line). > > 'History of Broome Co., NY' by H. P. Smith, 1885: Vestal, Tracy Creek - > 'Gilbert Osincup is a native of Vestal, where he was born in 1828, near the > farm on which he now lives. He is a son of Henry (above mentioned) who came > here from Kingston Valley in 1812. Henry's father was Jacob Osincup, a > Hessian soldier, who was taken prisoner at Valley Forge (Trenton) by > Washington's troops.' > > Trying to discover if the Jacob in Luzerne Co., may be the father of Henry > mentioned above. >

Barry, Thanks for the wealth of info! I have found some of C. N. Smith's works on Amazon. And some are included in CDs. Westland Publications is apparently defunct. Another interesting source is: www.scholar'sbookshelf.com Last month included many AMREV books on sale. It's worth checking out from time to time. There are currently 3 books on Burgoyne's campaign. And, of course, you've peaked my curiosity with "I'm interested in your research for another reason." Oh, really? Thanks, again Jeri

Nelson -- Kirk Strasser kirk@strauser.com identifies this gentleman as Johann Niklaus "Honnickel" Strasser, born 1746 in Berks Co. PA and died 1814 in Penn/Mahantango township, Snyder Co PA. It list his father as Johann Nicholas Strasser and mother as Maria Elisabetha -------- http://subwiki.honeypot.net/cgi-bin/view/Genealogy/JohannNiklausStrasser Another account http://geocities.com/strasser1732/html/dat72.html#3 gives the father Johann Nicholas Strasser born circa 1713 in Germany, died 1790 in Albany Township, Berks Co. PA A third account http://www.rootsweb.com/~paberks/montgomery/s27.html gives the origin of the family and cites the father purchasing land in 1749, beeing taxed as early as 1754 and being naturalized on 11 Apr 1763. Finally, an examination of my records of the POWs taken at Trenton includes no one named Strasser/Strausser. It would appear to me that the Hessian POW story is a myth and the family was well established in Berks Co PA a quarter century before the American War of Independence. Bob Brooks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nelson" <nip827@chartermi.net> To: <AMREV-HESSIANS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 8:00 PM Subject: [HESSIAN] Honnickle Strausser >I am interested in finding information on Honnickle (Honnickel) Strausser. >He fought against Washington troops and was captured on Christmas Eve when >Washington crossed the Delaware. He elected to stay in the US and his >descendants have been located in PA. I once saw mention of him in a set >of PA books which spoke of the Rev. War. It was a large set of old books. >I have lost the reference to this particular set of books and to said >article. I would welcome any help. > Nelson > > > ==== AMREV-HESSIANS Mailing List ==== > Mail List archives are your best bet to find information,You can search > the archives for a specific message or browse them, going from one message > to another. > To search: http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/?list=AMREV-HESSIANS > To browse: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/AMREV-HESSIANS-L > To unsubscribe from the -D version of the > list:AMREV-HESSIANS-D-request@rootsweb.com and write one single word > unsubscribe in subject line and text field. No other words or > explanations or it won't work. > you must unsub from the version you are subscribed to -D for that address > and -L for that one, don't get them mixed up...or you won't unsubscribe. > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx > > >

I have a Peter Strausser b. December 5, 1794. Do not have his parents. My data is from his wife's family. He married a Mary "Molly" Adams. Her parents died in Ralpho Twp., Northumberland Co., PA. That area is still full of Hessian desecendants. I do now have anything further, as Adams is not a main line for me, it just connects with a lot of others in my data base who are primarily in Northumberland, Dauphin and Schuylkill Cos., PA. Incidently, that area is also known as the "Hessian Triangle". Maybe this will help you with a location. Sorry I do not have anything further. Peggy Lyte Tyrrell At 08:00 PM 3/31/05 -0500, Nelson wrote: >I am interested in finding information on Honnickle (Honnickel) >Strausser. He fought against Washington troops and was captured on >Christmas Eve when Washington crossed the Delaware. He elected to stay in >the US and his descendants have been located in PA. I once saw mention >of him in a set of PA books which spoke of the Rev. War. It was a large >set of old books. I have lost the reference to this particular set of >books and to said article. I would welcome any help. >Nelson > > >==== AMREV-HESSIANS Mailing List ==== >Mail List archives are your best bet to find information,You can search >the archives for a specific message or browse them, going from one message >to another. >To search: http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/?list=AMREV-HESSIANS >To browse: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/AMREV-HESSIANS-L >To unsubscribe from the -D version of the >list:AMREV-HESSIANS-D-request@rootsweb.com and write one single >word unsubscribe in subject line and text field. No other words or >explanations or it won't work. >you must unsub from the version you are subscribed to -D for that address >and -L for that one, don't get them mixed up...or you won't unsubscribe. > >============================== >View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find >marriage announcements and more. Learn more: >http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx

I am interested in finding information on Honnickle (Honnickel) Strausser. He fought against Washington troops and was captured on Christmas Eve when Washington crossed the Delaware. He elected to stay in the US and his descendants have been located in PA. I once saw mention of him in a set of PA books which spoke of the Rev. War. It was a large set of old books. I have lost the reference to this particular set of books and to said article. I would welcome any help. Nelson

Dear Mark Packard; If you are interested to learn more about your ancestor, I think your best bet would be to let it be known at the right places. That's why I am forwarding this to the right mailing list, hoping someone picks up on it. Cheers, retired John Merz. (or contact the S.A.R Library in Louisville, Kentucky) ----- Original Message ----- From: <packamr@NU.COM> To: <hessian@sympatico.ca> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 7:36 AM Subject: Johnathon Buhoup - (Bischof?) > Dear Sir, > > I'm interested in a story about my ancestor Johnathon Buhoup. The story > goes like this: 15 year old John is impressed into service and sent to > America. He attempts desertion 3 times (twice sentenced to death) and is > successful on his third attempt on 12-25-1776 and joined up with General > Washington for the duration of the war. Served in the war of 1812 where he > lost a leg. He dies in Lancaster Pennsylvania at the age of 98. > > I've found on the internet where you mention you feel his name is Johan > Bischof. > > Any help in confirming the name or the story would be appreciated... > > Thanks, > Mark Packard > > > > ********************************************************************** > This e-mail, including any files or attachments transmitted with it, is confidential and intended for a specific purpose and for use only by the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. Any disclosure, copying or distribution of this e-mail or the taking of any action based on its contents, other than for its intended purpose, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete it from your system. Any views or opinions expressed in this e-mail are not necessarily those of Northeast Utilities, its subsidiaries and affiliates (NU). E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be error-free or secure or free from viruses, and NU disclaims all liability for any resulting damage, errors, or omissions. > **********************************************************************

Hello Bob Brooks, I've found Erhard Stadtler's list of deserters and new settlers in America on Jochen Siedel's website (which is on hiatus for the present). In my search for my Ansbach ancestor Christian Schaeffer and his two brothers, I have so much to learn about our Hessians, but I'm trying--working my way through the archives--and currently reading the Dohla diary. I'd read Prechtal's Journal as you suggested to Cynthia, but I've searched for Prechtal (Amazon, Heritage/Willow Bend, etc.) without success. Have you another source? C. N. Smith's monographs sound interesting too, but Westland Publications may have moved. They are not listed in white or yellow pages in Vail, AZ. I haven't used snail mail as yet, but may resort to that and their old address or phone them. Thanks, again, for your suggestions. Takes patience with us neophytes, huh? Jeri

From memory, and as I understand it, American's wishing to secure the indentured services of a Hessian POW for a period of three years, and on payment of 80 Spanish dollars (Continental currency being largely worthless), could execute this Certificate of Redemption form along with the signature of the Hessian soldier. This meant that the Hessian soldier was indentured to his American master. The American masters were responsible for their indentured Hessian soldiers. Most were used as farm labor and as artisans largely in Virginia and Pennsylvania. Many such Hessians, of course used this as an alternative to service in the Continental Army, or remaining in custody as POW's at various internment locations in Virginia and Pennsylvania. The Hessian soldier captives had no money themselves but did occasionally receive cloth and food provided through the British forces. The Hessian officers, who were required to do no work, received a better deal including some funds but had to sign their parole not to attempt to escape American custody. These arrangements worked well especially in the large German speaking areas of Pennsylvania, Maryland and Virginia where many of the Hessian POW's were virtually adopted by their American masters. If such documents can be found they could tell a lot about where the Hessian POW was interned, who he worked for, and the terms of his indenturement. Don Fehlings Renton, Washington, USA Tel: 425/255-8588 Dfehlings@aol.com

Ann, There is a copy of the Certificate of redemption form recorded in the Journal of the Johannes Scwalm Historical Association,Inc. in Volumn 5, Number 2. 1994. It is discussed on page 4 of that edition, and one is copied on the back cover. It concerns a Hessen Hanau soldier named Johannes Urbach/Orbach. The Certificate states: "This certifies that John Orbach2 of the Regiment of Hessen Hanau (a prisoner of war to the United States of America ) has paid into My Hand Eighty Dollars for the purpose of his redemption; in consequence of which I promise to procure for him a discharge from under the Hand of the Honorable Major General Lincoln, Secretary of War. Lancaster,October 27,1782 Moses Hazen,Brig.Gen. Jim

Hi, I wonder if other then just a few, if any of the original documents exhist.. Wouldn't that just be the find of a lifetime... I know my cousin and I would be pleased to tears if we could find a ditigal copy of Johann Jacob Bonstein's... Nelda Pax et bonum! Nelda L. Percival nee Gilpin, IBSSG http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/ http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gillock/ http://doodleartgraphics.com

I have written both NARA and Library of Congress regarding "certificates of redemption" that Hessians signed in order to remain in America. Neither of these institutions has them but the Library of Congress said there is a copy of the form in Ernst Kipping's "The hessian View of America" page 46. This book is out of print but many libraries have it. Ann

Hi, you need to join the list and get your welcome letter before emailing a message... the amrev-hessians-l-request@rootsweb.com is for joining and any words other then SUBSCRIBE confuses the computer and bounces your message to me the list administrator... the list address for messages is amrev-hessians-l@rootsweb.com so please retry joining then send your message afterwards.... I am forwarding your message to the list..but you \will not get any answers that are sent back to the list if you don't go ahead and join... Nelda List Manager ----Original Message Follows---- From: PJmay5612@aol.com To: amrev-hessians-l-request@rootsweb.com Subject: Henry Guthart Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 12:00:18 -0700 I am looking for information on this Henry Guthart (later, Goodheart) a Hessian soldier who appears to have married A. Catherine Weil in Lancaster Co., Pa on Apr. 5, 1791. My address is PJMay5612@aol.com. I have neither his birth date nor his death date, but he appears to have married another Catherine before A. Catherine, and is not buried next to A. Catherine.

On March 13, 2005 Kent Elam posted a question about whether or not the Hainline Family descended from a Hessian Soldier. My son-in-law is a Hainline. At dinner he asked me about the reference I had seen. He is descended from John (Johannes Valentin) Hainline of Rowan County, N.C. That Hainline ancestor immigrated in 1749 through Philadelphia. Karen

Hello Bob: Thanks for your corrections. In fact, we do not know what his name may have been on the Hessian muster rolls. I have been informed by Dr. Eugen Perau, a German researcher, that Hessian soldiers that deserted while in American captivity and enlisted in the Continental Army were under automatic sentence of death if recaptured by British forces. A powerful motive for a convenient name change. We believe that our Conrad Kremer enlisted in the Continental Army probably at or near Philadelphia where Procter's Artillery was stationed. He shows up on muster roll's at Valley Forge. His first commander, Capt. Bartholomew von Heer, was a subject of the King of Prussia and a colorful soldier of fortune. Von Heer was also his second commander serving as company commander of a new unit of the Continental Army variously known as the Marechausee Corps, or Von Heer's Independent Company of Light Dragoons. This was a mounted military police (or Provost) unit formed to help keep discipline in the Continental Army. It included two executioners and was made up almost exclusively of German's. This followed the European practice of having the Provost socially segregated from the soldiery. I agree that Conrad is likely to have had prior military experience of some kind to merit being selected by von Heer to be his Quartermaster Sergeant in the Marechausee Corps. This corps policed the army, guarded the HQ of the Main Army, provided escort guards, and regulated the sutler's that were accredited to the Main Army, a sensitive responsibility. Later, in Winchester, Conrad was for a time "Clerk of the Market" and "Sergeant at Arms of the Corporation of Winchester." This job also included regulating fair weights and measures, quality, etc., of the market at Winchester. In fact, Conrad's postwar civilian career seems to be patterned on his military career. Winchester (VA) was a center of early German settlement in the lower Shenandoah Valley, had a large German community, a large Lutheran church, and was the site of an internment area for Hessian POW's. I have am familiar with the HETRINA studies and cannot find a good match from that source. I am doubtful that it is possible to find an unimpeachable German source that will establish his regiment, his parents, and home village. But it's worth a try. In the process I may learn more about this very unusual ancestor. Thanks for your help. Don Fehlings Renton, Washington, USA Tel: 425/255-8588 Dfehlings@aol.com

Don -- You have some obvious errors in your accoun: > My ancestor, Conrad Kremer, is cited in two Virginia local histories as a > "Hessian deserter from British service." He was born about May 1778 in > Hesse-Kassel and may have served in Grenadier Regiment von Rall and > captured at Trenton. > His true surname may have been a variant of Kremer, perhaps Krammell, or > Kram. <<CLIP>> He was not born in May 1778 and taken POW in Dec 1776. The only man with a name similar to this taken in Rall's Regiment was Conrad Cramm/Kram from Burguffeln. In the various accounts in HETRINA III his birth is listed as 1745/46, 1746/47 (3 times) and 1755/56., He was captured at Trenton and imprisoned at Lancaster. He was named on a list of POWs sent from Lancaster to Philadelphia on 29 July 1778 under escort of the 9th Pennsylvania Regiment. He is listed as a deserter in April 1779, then ransomed and arrested for desertion in May 1780, then released from Arrest in Nov 1780 and then in July 1783 he again is listed as a deserter. > While a prisoner of war he enlisted in the American Army in May 1777, at > Valley Forge, as a Private in the Company of Artillery commanded by Capt. > Bartholomew von Heer (Col. Procter's 4th Artillery Regiment). He > reenlisted in July > 1778 in Captain von Heer's newly organized Company of "Marechausee Corps" > and > became Quartermaster Sergeant. There may have been other former Hessian > soldiers > in the Marechausee Corps. Conrad was discharged from the Marechausee Corps > in > July 1780 at Reading, PA. To the best of my knowledge, there was no American presence at Valley Forge before Washington elected that place for his winter quarter during the winter 1777/1778. The fact that you "Conrad Kremmer" ended up in two American artillery units suggests prior artillery experience. There were a number of members of the Hesse-Cassel Artillery captured at Trenton including one Heinrich Kramer; however he is listed on the 17 June 1778 list of POWs sent from Lancaster to Philadelphia to be exchanged. I do not own the HETRINA index covering the Hesse-Cassel Artillery. Also captured at Trenton were Christoph Kramer of the Regiment von Loßburg (of Soldorf, born 1754-55), Heinrich Cramer/Kramer from Regiment von Knyphausen (of Loshausen, born 1751/52) and Grenadier Francis Kramer (probably from Waldeck). Christoph was named on the 17 June 1778 exchange list but never shows up again in the regimental roles. Heinrich went home to Germany at the end of the war. He, too, was on the 17 June 1778 exchange list. Sorry, but that is all I have on that name(s). Bob Brooks