Robert, You've hit upon a subject that very much interests me and theorizes Hessian origins and Norse, Norman, and Scottish relations. I don't know how far outside the our published subject - Hessian Soldiers of the American Revolution... it may travel so we might want to take this out of the list and contact each other. I'm at citizen_soldier@breezemachines.com or stephen_kohler@mailsnare.com there's underscores between citizen_soldier and stephen_kohler /R Stephen >-----Original Message----- >From: Robert Sulentic [mailto:rnsulentic@earthlink.net] >Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 10:07 PM >To: AMREV-HESSIANS-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: RE: [HESSIAN] the term Hessian > >The German 'soldier trade' as it has been called, is one of those common >features of early modern warfare in Europe that seems to puzzle everyone >today, and the perhaps one way to look at it is that in fact, those armies >were more 'cosmopolitan' than we think of armies being today. Officers and >men could serve in different armies with no problem or opprobrium--Rall >served in the Russian Army for a while, and there were two French officers >in the Hessian Jaeger corps that were given their discharges and safe >conduct back to Europe when France declared War on Britain. Jaeger Captain >Johann Ewald left the Hessian Army after the war and went to the Danish Army >where he had a long career. > >Make no mistake, a quick look at the Hetrina volumes will show plenty of non >Hessians in the Hessian regiments: In the regiment von Donop, for example, >there are men from France, Sweden, England and Austria, plus other places in >Germany not in Hesse-Kassel, like Mainz. > >To paraphrase the line in Thackeray's novel "Barry Lyndon"--'Landgraf >Friedrich was too much in want of men to care from whence they came'. > >Friederich's father was supposed to have said that "The Army is our Peru" a >reference to the great silver mines the Spanish monarchy had there (and >hence money). > >While the individual soldier was either conscripted or volunteered, the >Hessian state could be called mercenary, as Hesse-Kassel provided troops in >exchange for money to, at various times between 1677 and the 1815, Denmark, >Spain, Venice, Great Britain, the Netherlands, Austria, and Prussia, even >going so far as to rent troops to both Austria and Prussia while those two >were fighting each other in the War of the Austrian Succession. (A very neat >trick, I've always thought). > >-Robert Sulentic > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: stephen_kohler@mailsnare.net [mailto:stephen_kohler@mailsnare.net] >> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 4:00 PM >> To: AMREV-HESSIANS-L@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [HESSIAN] the term Hessian >> >> Bob, Hoohah (fifteenth definition = ?Amen?)!That was an excellent >> breakdown of the ?to be or not to be?? ?a mercenary question.I understand >> that filling ranks by other than acceptable means was held to a bare >> minimum.It was not long ago that young American high school students in >> trouble with the law were offered by the judge a choice to join and serve >> their country or a prison term?I hardly see that as an acceptable means to >> fill the ranks of an all volunteer force.However, I don?t remember anyone >> tagging them as mercenaries.British troops today serving in Iraq suffer >> similar ridicule and indignity of being pegged ?mercenary? by other EU >> member nations. >> >> In Chapter IV, THE SOLDIERS in THE HESSIANS and the other GERMAN >> AUXILIARIES OF GREAT BRITAIN IN THE REVOLUTIONARY WARby Edward J. Lowell, >> Harper and Brothers Publishers New York, 1884 talks a great deal about >> Hessian Army regulation and recruitment.Nothing there would ever give me >> any indication anyone domestic and or foreign joining their ranks was a >> mercenary unless you stretch the true definition.Then you might have to >> include all Brits, Canadians, Germans, French, and other foreign nationals >> serving in the US Army (Green Card or no) mercenaries today. >> >> Not even the US "China" Marine in the Boxer Rebellion could be mistaken >> for a mercenary. >> >> /R >> >> Stephen >> Washington, DC >> >> >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: Bob Brooks [mailto:rcbrooks@pivot.net] >> >> >Whether or not the German auxilary troops were "mercenaries" is a subject >> >where opinions get in the way of facts. In modern terms, it makes a good >> >"sound bite." I have not studied enough 18th century German history to >> >consider myself having any kind of expertise on the subject; however, my >> >limited studies have convinced me that (1) people did not have the person >> >freedoms which we are accustomed to today, and (2) a military career was >> an >> >honorable career. >> > >> >Snip... >> > >> >==== AMREV-HESSIANS Mailing List ==== >> >Please stick to our published subject - Hessian Soldiers of the >> >American Revolution, not WWII or the Civil War. No other Immigrants. >> >You can search the archives for a specific message or browse them, going >> from one message to another. >> >To search: http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/?list=AMREV-HESSIANS >> >To browse: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/AMREV-HESSIANS-L >> > >> >============================== >> >Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. >> >Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: >> http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx >> > >> > >> >> >> ==== AMREV-HESSIANS Mailing List ==== >> HETRINA - "Hessische Truppen im Amerikanischen Unabhaengigkeitskrieg" >> Six Volumes covering Hessen-Kassel, Hessen-Hanau, and Waldeck. >> HETRINA does not cover Braunschweig/Brunswick, Ansbach-Bayreuth or Anhalt- >> Zerbst. Those are partly covered by other publications. >> This list was started in 1998 by Johannes (John) Helmut Merz, and you will >> find his explanations about HETRINA in our mail list archives. >> >> ============================== >> Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the >> areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. >> Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > > > >==== AMREV-HESSIANS Mailing List ==== >The Source HETRINA has been discussed more often than anything >else, you find the explanations by checking the key word archive. >You can find it by typing in "26 feb 1999" and look for HETRINA. >Or check the Threaded Archives for February 1999 - Hetrina publication. >You can search the archives for a specific message or browse them, going from one message to another. >To search: http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/?list=AMREV-HESSIANS >To browse: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/AMREV-HESSIANS-L > >============================== >Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the >last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > >

Unfortunately, I have no idea where my ancestor Hessian (or Brunswicker) Johann Giest Halbaer was buried, except that it was probably on the family farm somewhere in the former Argenteuil Seigniory . However, so far I have been unable to find the location of the family farm. So the mystery remains. While on the subject, I'd like to take this opportunity to wish John all the best in his upcoming trip to Germany. It will no doubt be an exhilirating experience, once again, for our benevolant ambassador who has done so much for the advancement and the dissemination of the Hessian contribution in North Anerica. John, may God bless you! Frank Watters St-Bruno, Qc. > > > ======================================= > > > Source: AMREV-HESSIANS-L@rootsweb.com > > > Subject: Hessian Soldier Plaques - Pictures on Hessian graves. > > > > > > Dear Hessian descendants - > > > > > > This is a serious appeal! > > > > > > Saturday a week ago, a full page newspaper article > > > appeared in the Hanau newspaper, with pictures of > > > Hessian soldiers parading at historical events, and > > > also a picture of myself holding a plaque before donating > > > it to the Rose House Museum near Picton, Ontario > > > last summer. > > > > > > I did donate one, the very first one, in 2002 to the > > > Hanau Historical Society, which since has really stepped > > > up their efforts to promote those events of the American > > > Revolution. You may not be aware of, but the Prince of > > > Hanau used the money he received from the British for > > > his soldiers, very very wisely, and the buildings and park > > > in Hanau-Wilhelmsbad are a very proud reminder of the > > > 'Soldatenhandel'. The pride and joy of the citizens of Hanau. > > > > > > When the Sons of the American Revolution (S.A.R.) brought > > > the article written by Howard F. Horne, former President-General, > > > in their magazine of Winter 2005, and provided me with a few > > > extra copies, I mailed one out to the reporter of the Hanauer > > > Anzeiger, Herr Werner Kurz, and this must have been his > > > inspiration to write this new article. > > > > > > This has put me on the spot - > > > in the article it says that American descendants of Hessian soldiers > > > designed this plaque to honor their ancestor, and that these > > > plaques would be attched to the still existing grave stones of > > > those Hessians. I do know that our designer and promoter > > > Robert Fetters has done so with his ancestor, the Hessen- > > > Kassel Soldier Henrich Hammer, of the Knyphausen Regiment, > > > but who else has done a similar dedication. > > > > > > I know that many plaques have been ordered from the > > > Bronzeworks, but I have not seen any pictures anywhere. > > > Bob, I need yours again also. > > > > > > MAIL ME YOUR PICTURES - I need to show them in Hanau. > > > I am leaving on the 14. June, get them to me before - PLEASE > > > > > > Mail to: > > > John Helmut Merz, > > > 703-350 Concession St., > > > Hamilton, Ontario, Canada > > > L9A 1B6 (this is the Zip code, do not forget) > > > > > > Please make my Day ! > > > http://home.wtal.de/famfey/hallo_hessenland.htm > > > > > > > > >

England first went to Russia for troops was turned down. Ed http://members.tripod.com/~Silvie/Schilling.html

The German 'soldier trade' as it has been called, is one of those common features of early modern warfare in Europe that seems to puzzle everyone today, and the perhaps one way to look at it is that in fact, those armies were more 'cosmopolitan' than we think of armies being today. Officers and men could serve in different armies with no problem or opprobrium--Rall served in the Russian Army for a while, and there were two French officers in the Hessian Jaeger corps that were given their discharges and safe conduct back to Europe when France declared War on Britain. Jaeger Captain Johann Ewald left the Hessian Army after the war and went to the Danish Army where he had a long career. Make no mistake, a quick look at the Hetrina volumes will show plenty of non Hessians in the Hessian regiments: In the regiment von Donop, for example, there are men from France, Sweden, England and Austria, plus other places in Germany not in Hesse-Kassel, like Mainz. To paraphrase the line in Thackeray's novel "Barry Lyndon"--'Landgraf Friedrich was too much in want of men to care from whence they came'. Friederich's father was supposed to have said that "The Army is our Peru" a reference to the great silver mines the Spanish monarchy had there (and hence money). While the individual soldier was either conscripted or volunteered, the Hessian state could be called mercenary, as Hesse-Kassel provided troops in exchange for money to, at various times between 1677 and the 1815, Denmark, Spain, Venice, Great Britain, the Netherlands, Austria, and Prussia, even going so far as to rent troops to both Austria and Prussia while those two were fighting each other in the War of the Austrian Succession. (A very neat trick, I've always thought). -Robert Sulentic > -----Original Message----- > From: stephen_kohler@mailsnare.net [mailto:stephen_kohler@mailsnare.net] > Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 4:00 PM > To: AMREV-HESSIANS-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [HESSIAN] the term Hessian > > Bob, Hoohah (fifteenth definition = ?Amen?)!That was an excellent > breakdown of the ?to be or not to be?? ?a mercenary question.I understand > that filling ranks by other than acceptable means was held to a bare > minimum.It was not long ago that young American high school students in > trouble with the law were offered by the judge a choice to join and serve > their country or a prison term?I hardly see that as an acceptable means to > fill the ranks of an all volunteer force.However, I don?t remember anyone > tagging them as mercenaries.British troops today serving in Iraq suffer > similar ridicule and indignity of being pegged ?mercenary? by other EU > member nations. > > In Chapter IV, THE SOLDIERS in THE HESSIANS and the other GERMAN > AUXILIARIES OF GREAT BRITAIN IN THE REVOLUTIONARY WARby Edward J. Lowell, > Harper and Brothers Publishers New York, 1884 talks a great deal about > Hessian Army regulation and recruitment.Nothing there would ever give me > any indication anyone domestic and or foreign joining their ranks was a > mercenary unless you stretch the true definition.Then you might have to > include all Brits, Canadians, Germans, French, and other foreign nationals > serving in the US Army (Green Card or no) mercenaries today. > > Not even the US "China" Marine in the Boxer Rebellion could be mistaken > for a mercenary. > > /R > > Stephen > Washington, DC > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Bob Brooks [mailto:rcbrooks@pivot.net] > > >Whether or not the German auxilary troops were "mercenaries" is a subject > >where opinions get in the way of facts. In modern terms, it makes a good > >"sound bite." I have not studied enough 18th century German history to > >consider myself having any kind of expertise on the subject; however, my > >limited studies have convinced me that (1) people did not have the person > >freedoms which we are accustomed to today, and (2) a military career was > an > >honorable career. > > > >Snip... > > > >==== AMREV-HESSIANS Mailing List ==== > >Please stick to our published subject - Hessian Soldiers of the > >American Revolution, not WWII or the Civil War. No other Immigrants. > >You can search the archives for a specific message or browse them, going > from one message to another. > >To search: http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/?list=AMREV-HESSIANS > >To browse: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/AMREV-HESSIANS-L > > > >============================== > >Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. > >Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx > > > > > > > ==== AMREV-HESSIANS Mailing List ==== > HETRINA - "Hessische Truppen im Amerikanischen Unabhaengigkeitskrieg" > Six Volumes covering Hessen-Kassel, Hessen-Hanau, and Waldeck. > HETRINA does not cover Braunschweig/Brunswick, Ansbach-Bayreuth or Anhalt- > Zerbst. Those are partly covered by other publications. > This list was started in 1998 by Johannes (John) Helmut Merz, and you will > find his explanations about HETRINA in our mail list archives. > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx

Bob, Hoohah (fifteenth definition = ?Amen?)!That was an excellent breakdown of the ?to be or not to be?? ?a mercenary question.I understand that filling ranks by other than acceptable means was held to a bare minimum.It was not long ago that young American high school students in trouble with the law were offered by the judge a choice to join and serve their country or a prison term?I hardly see that as an acceptable means to fill the ranks of an all volunteer force.However, I don?t remember anyone tagging them as mercenaries.British troops today serving in Iraq suffer similar ridicule and indignity of being pegged ?mercenary? by other EU member nations. In Chapter IV, THE SOLDIERS in THE HESSIANS and the other GERMAN AUXILIARIES OF GREAT BRITAIN IN THE REVOLUTIONARY WARby Edward J. Lowell, Harper and Brothers Publishers New York, 1884 talks a great deal about Hessian Army regulation and recruitment.Nothing there would ever give me any indication anyone domestic and or foreign joining their ranks was a mercenary unless you stretch the true definition.Then you might have to include all Brits, Canadians, Germans, French, and other foreign nationals serving in the US Army (Green Card or no) mercenaries today. Not even the US "China" Marine in the Boxer Rebellion could be mistaken for a mercenary. /R Stephen Washington, DC >-----Original Message----- >From: Bob Brooks [mailto:rcbrooks@pivot.net] >Whether or not the German auxilary troops were "mercenaries" is a subject >where opinions get in the way of facts. In modern terms, it makes a good >"sound bite." I have not studied enough 18th century German history to >consider myself having any kind of expertise on the subject; however, my >limited studies have convinced me that (1) people did not have the person >freedoms which we are accustomed to today, and (2) a military career was an >honorable career. > >Snip... > >==== AMREV-HESSIANS Mailing List ==== >Please stick to our published subject - Hessian Soldiers of the >American Revolution, not WWII or the Civil War. No other Immigrants. >You can search the archives for a specific message or browse them, going from one message to another. >To search: http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/?list=AMREV-HESSIANS >To browse: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/AMREV-HESSIANS-L > >============================== >Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. >Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx > >

Hello Peggy, You mentioned Perry Co., PA [my husband's line is strong there] and though we're in the midwest and don't get to research there but maybe once/yr I thought of a suggestion. Why don't you briefly get on the PA-PERRY list. Bet someone there will be able to help you find the cemetery you seek. It's a particulary helpful group of folks and the Perry Co. Historians [though no website] seem to monitor and help out frequently. Toni H. St. Peters, MO peggyt wrote: > John, > Do not despair about lack of photos of graves. So many TS's are > deteriorated and some removed to make way for our modern highways, > etc. I had been told on a phone conversation where Gottlieb Westfall > was buried, but was unable to find it at the cemetery mentioned. I > have no TS photos of any of Gottlieb Westfalls children, including my > 3rd great grandmother. Her husband is buried at Smith's Graveyard in > Perry Co., PA according to his obit. But I cannot find a location as > to where this cem. might be today. I would think that Mary Elizabeth > [Westfall] Light was buried at the same place as their deaths were > only 2-3 years apart. I do have a tombstone photo of one of the sons > of Mary and John Light....that of my great-great grandfather Simon > Light. But I cannot add a plaque to the TS. I am trying to think how I > might honor Gottlieb Westfall, but have as yet not come up with a good > idea. The closes thing I have thought of is to have a drawing of > Hessian soldier in uniform of his unit and hang that in my home where > I have other family photos. I have recently been combing the census to > try and find Gottleib's spouse who remarried. I have the name, but > have found absolutely nothing about her. > Once a a great while I hear from George Westfall of the same line. > Maybe he has come up with a Westfall TS location. But have not heard > from him in ages. > I read all the other email on this topic. Seems many of us have not > clue where there might be a TS. > Pauli, you take good care of your grandfather (OPA) on this trip. > Peggy [Lyte] Tyrrell, some kind of cousin. > > > > > ==== AMREV-HESSIANS Mailing List ==== > You can search the archives for a specific message or browse them, > going from one message to another. To search: > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/?list=AMREV-HESSIANS > To browse: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/AMREV-HESSIANS-L **************** > To unsubscribe: send an email to AMREV-HESSIANS-L-request@rootsweb.com > and write one single word unsubscribe in subject line and text field. > No other words or explanations or it won't work. > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > >

Suzane -- > You said: Meanwhile the troops from Brunswick and from Hesse-Hanau were > sent to Canada, far from the population centers of North America. > > Why were they sent to Canada? Because in 1775, the rag-tag American army had nearly driven the British out of the St Lawrence River valley. Montreal had been captured by an army led by Richard Montgomery of New York and a two pronged pincer attack was being formed against Quebec, into which the British troops had taken refuge, with Montgomery's army marching eastward and Benedict Arnold march over the height of the land between Maine and Quebec. The New Year's Eve attempt by the Americans to storm Quebec failed with General Montgomery killed and Arnold wounded. The American laid siege to Quebec through the winter awaiting reinforcements from the south whilst the Brits awaited reinforcements from across the sea. As the ice went out of the St Lawrence, the Brit reinforcements (Burgoyne's army) arrived first on 06 May 1776, lifting the siege and bringing Burgoyne's forces to something like 13,000 men. In the meantime the American reinforcements struggled eastward. On 01 June, the reinforcements joined up with the retreating, fatigued besiegers at St John, above the falls on the Riviore Richelieu. The American reinforcements pushed eastward and at Trois Riviores on 08 June 1776 were badly routed, making it a dash to retreat back to St John. The British retook everything back to St John in short order, then retrenched while building a fleet to control Lake Champlain. In the meantime, the Americans built their own fleet. The Battle of Valcour Island marked the end of American control of Lake Champlain but the fleet buildup had meant a yearlong delay to the British plans to cut New England from the other colonies by controlling the Hudson River valley/Lake Champlain corridor. The following year, Burgoyne's thrust stalled at Saratoga and he surrendered his army under written conditions favorable to the Brits. The "convention of surrender" gave its title to the "Convention Army" which was to march to the sea, go to Europe and never fight again in North America. The Continental Congress refused to endorse the convention and upon a minor violation of one of the clauses made by the British, declared the convention null and void. At this time the Convention Army was encampt in the old Continental Army barracks atop Prospect and Winter Hills, just west of Boston. Fearful that the Brits might stage an expedition to rescue them, the Convention Army was marched 700 miles in a 70-day winter march to Virginia. Therefore, many of the Brunswick and Hesse-Hanau troops who arrived 06 May 1776 before Quebec found themselves three years later enjoying Virginian hospitality in Charlottesville. Bob Brooks

Hello Jeri, it got to be co-ordinated by someone living in the U.S.A. in order to get the best deal, I think Earl Lippert has started to organize a collective purchase from the Bronzeworks. As far as Canadian purchasers is concerned, you could write to me, and I could try to get a better deal for Canadians, we got to consider that it is more expensive to ship to Canada, and there is also a matter with Customs, and not mentioning the unfavorable exchange rate of our Canadian Dollar. But if I can get five or more orders I will certainly help to facilitate a purcahse. Regards John Helmut Merz retired at the Canadian shores of Lake Ontario. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeri Schindler" <2shins@charter.net> To: <AMREV-HESSIANS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 12:25 PM Subject: [HESSIAN] plaques > If anyone starts a list of people who want a placque, I'd be interested in joining that list so we could get a better price. > > Jeri > >

-----Original Message----- From: Bob Brooks <rcbrooks@pivot.net> Sent: May 25, 2005 10:32 AM To: AMREV-HESSIANS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HESSIAN] the term Hessian Stephen -- >>> Hello Bob. Hello Nelda. Boy, I think I'd be more likely to take argument >>> about the use of the word "mercenary" than I would about the word >>> "Hessian". Imagine - a simple 500 word essay penned by Benjamin Franklin >>> while in France seeking military support from a former enemy (who not >>> but a few years before murdered and massacred colonial men, women, and >>> children at places like Fort William Henry without a second thought) >>> turned volunteers and conscripts alike into mercenaries. You can still >>> hear the ring of Franklin's sword, ere pen, as he scribes the word >>> "mercenary" on parchment battlefield. <<< Whether or not the German auxilary troops were "mercenaries" is a subject where opinions get in the way of facts. In modern terms, it makes a good "sound bite." I have not studied enough 18th century German history to consider myself having any kind of expertise on the subject; however, my limited studies have convinced me that (1) people did not have the person freedoms which we are accustomed to today, and (2) a military career was an honorable career. In 1775, prior to the deployment to North America, the companies in the Hesse-Cassell regiments were manned to about 50% of the level to be deployed. Once the regiments were committed to America, recruitment was required to bring the regiments to the deployment levels. Because the pay was to be by the British pay-scale which was higher than the German pay-scale, there were plenty of recruits willing "to take the King's shilling." In rough numbers, the first Hesse-Cassel contingent comprised 15 infantry regiments, each of five companies and about 600 men; four composte Grenadier battalions, ecanh of four companies and about 500 mem, two Jäger companies and a detachment of artillery plus two general-staffs -- call it 12,000 men -- of which maybe 6,000 were already employed and 6,000 eagerly had "taken the King's shilling." In the six annual replacement recruit deployments, an average of another 1,200 or so replacements were sent over. I believe that conscription only applied very marginally and the mostly to the later repaxements. When your government sends YOU overseas to fight for another country's cause, does that make YOU a mercenary? I should hope not. As a member of the US Marines, in 1965 I was deployed from a peacetime garrison situatiuon in California and ended up in a place called Vietnam. At that time the US Marines was an all-volunteer organization. Was I a mercenary? Just because Ben Franklin called them "mercenaries" doesn't make it so. The Viet Minh and Viet Cong had some pretty nasty things to say about the US Marines in Vietnam, too. Bob Brooks ==== AMREV-HESSIANS Mailing List ==== Please stick to our published subject - Hessian Soldiers of the American Revolution, not WWII or the Civil War. No other Immigrants. You can search the archives for a specific message or browse them, going from one message to another. To search: http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/?list=AMREV-HESSIANS To browse: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/AMREV-HESSIANS-L ============================== Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more. Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx

I've lost track of who, or what, is offending who! Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Suzanne Pryse <pryses@yahoo.com> Date: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 10:28 am Subject: RE: [HESSIAN] unsubscribe > I don't agree with you. I think it is rediculous for someone to > sign up for a chat, get offended because the subject matter is > being discussed and then are too stupid to follow the instructions > to unsubscribe. > > Nelda Percival <nelda_percival@hotmail.com> wrote:Hi LIst Members, > > What John Merz wrote to the member who unsubscribbed was offensive > and I > privately wrote to him about it. Flaming of any type is not > acceptable on > this list. > > When a member has a complaint about another member and what has > been writen > in an email the best recourse is to notify the List Manager, not > respond to > the email. > > Eric, If you still want to unsubscribe, PLease send an email to > AMREV-HESSIANS-L-request@rootsweb.com > > do not write any thing but the word unsubscribe in the subject and > the body. > Other words just confuse the computer that does the work. > > Nelda Percival > List Manager >

I might also. How much do they cost? Suzanne Jeri Schindler <2shins@charter.net> wrote: If anyone starts a list of people who want a placque, I'd be interested in joining that list so we could get a better price. Jeri ==== AMREV-HESSIANS Mailing List ==== The subject of this list - Hessian Soldiers of the American Revolution No other wars - no other German immigrants. Please stick to the subject. You can search the archives for a specific message or browse them, going from one message to another. To search: http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/?list=AMREV-HESSIANS To browse: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/AMREV-HESSIANS-L ============================== Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site!

Hi Bob, You said: Meanwhile the troops from Brunswick and from Hesse-Hanau were sent to Canada, far from the population centers of North America. Why were they sent to Canada? Thanks, Suzanne Bob Brooks <rcbrooks@pivot.net> wrote: Nelda -- YOUR term may be Hessian but please don't call it OUR term because to many, the term "Hessian" is/was intended to be derogatory. I believe there were two reasons that "Hessian" became synonomous with "German" when discussing the auxilary soldiers employed by the British and deployed to North America. First, when the "Hessians" landed at New York in 1776, they were all true Hessians coming from Hesse-Cassel (except one regiment of true, non-resident mercenaries recruited by/in Waldeck) consequently all the American newspapers called the Germans "Hessians" so the name stuck. Meanwhile the troops from Brunswick and from Hesse-Hanau were sent to Canada, far from the population centers of North America. Second, when the final count was in, something like 70% (plus or minus) of all the German auxilary troops deployed to North America came from either Hesse-Casel or Hesse-Hanau. The first of the continguent from Ansbach-Bayreuth didn't arrive until the Philadelphia campaign had begun in 1777 so they, too, were called "Hessians" when they arrived. The first continguent from Anhalt-Zerbst went to Canada in 1778 after Burgoyne's army had surrendered and major fighting had ended in that theatre and the second large deployment in 1782 from Anhalt-Zerbtst only made it to Halifax where they spent a year in garrison before returning home. As a historian, I prefer to refer to the sponsoring German state to identify the specific military units, viz-- Hesse-Cassel, Brunswick, Ansbach-Bayreuth, Hesse-Hanau, and Anhalt-Zerbst (listed here in declining order of quantiy of troops supplied). It really doesn't matter what generic term you you call the German auxilary troops. Purists will take exception to generic terms and generalist get annoyed by purists. Just don't call them "mercenaries" unless you are referring to the 3. englisch-waldeckisches Soldregiment, a true mercenary regiment of non-residents. Bob Brooks ==== AMREV-HESSIANS Mailing List ==== Please stick to our published subject - Hessian Soldiers of the American Revolution, not WWII or the Civil War. No other Immigrants. You can search the archives for a specific message or browse them, going from one message to another. To search: http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/?list=AMREV-HESSIANS To browse: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/AMREV-HESSIANS-L ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour

Hello Hessian Descendants; I would like to support this idea of getting a bigger order for plaques together. It'll save considerable money. Last year I bought 5 plaques in one shot and got a very good special price. The first of the five I donated to the Rose House Museum in Marysburg, Ontario, the first Hessian settlement in Ontario, three more were picked up by Hessian descendants for similar ceremonies, and my very last one, mounted on a heavy wooden board (round steak board), I will take to my wife's hometown to present to their Historical Society which will be honoring their Hessians who served in America. The idea with the steak board came when I saw one in a Hudson Bay store, 9 inches in diameter, appr. 1 1/4" thick, the perfect fit for the plaque. No sanding or painting needed, just drill the holes and screw on the plaque. Right now this plaque is hanging on my "Wall of Honour", and it looks "GREAT" Something you will be proud of! John Helmut Merz ////////////////////////////////////// ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nelda Percival" <nelda_percival@hotmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 5:58 PM Subject: [HESSIAN] RE: HESSIAN SOLDIER & DESCENDANT PLAQUES > Hi List Members, > Earl just ordered a plaque, he was told he could get a reduction in price if > there was an order for 10 at the same time and paid for in advance.... > > As you know discussing prices on this list is against the AUP rules. But > what is needed is a person who would be willing to take charge of a multiple > order and do it all off list! > > Please if anyone is interested in discussing this, write him and you all > coordinate it all off list... > > There was quite a nice reduction in the price .... > > Hope you all will write each other about it off list..... > his enmail addy is > > ehlippert@comcast.net >

Stephen -- >>> Hello Bob. Hello Nelda. Boy, I think I'd be more likely to take argument >>> about the use of the word "mercenary" than I would about the word >>> "Hessian". Imagine - a simple 500 word essay penned by Benjamin Franklin >>> while in France seeking military support from a former enemy (who not >>> but a few years before murdered and massacred colonial men, women, and >>> children at places like Fort William Henry without a second thought) >>> turned volunteers and conscripts alike into mercenaries. You can still >>> hear the ring of Franklin's sword, ere pen, as he scribes the word >>> "mercenary" on parchment battlefield. <<< Whether or not the German auxilary troops were "mercenaries" is a subject where opinions get in the way of facts. In modern terms, it makes a good "sound bite." I have not studied enough 18th century German history to consider myself having any kind of expertise on the subject; however, my limited studies have convinced me that (1) people did not have the person freedoms which we are accustomed to today, and (2) a military career was an honorable career. In 1775, prior to the deployment to North America, the companies in the Hesse-Cassell regiments were manned to about 50% of the level to be deployed. Once the regiments were committed to America, recruitment was required to bring the regiments to the deployment levels. Because the pay was to be by the British pay-scale which was higher than the German pay-scale, there were plenty of recruits willing "to take the King's shilling." In rough numbers, the first Hesse-Cassel contingent comprised 15 infantry regiments, each of five companies and about 600 men; four composte Grenadier battalions, ecanh of four companies and about 500 mem, two Jäger companies and a detachment of artillery plus two general-staffs -- call it 12,000 men -- of which maybe 6,000 were already employed and 6,000 eagerly had "taken the King's shilling." In the six annual replacement recruit deployments, an average of another 1,200 or so replacements were sent over. I believe that conscription only applied very marginally and the mostly to the later repaxements. When your government sends YOU overseas to fight for another country's cause, does that make YOU a mercenary? I should hope not. As a member of the US Marines, in 1965 I was deployed from a peacetime garrison situatiuon in California and ended up in a place called Vietnam. At that time the US Marines was an all-volunteer organization. Was I a mercenary? Just because Ben Franklin called them "mercenaries" doesn't make it so. The Viet Minh and Viet Cong had some pretty nasty things to say about the US Marines in Vietnam, too. Bob Brooks

If anyone starts a list of people who want a placque, I'd be interested in joining that list so we could get a better price. Jeri

Webster's Unabridged: mercenary; a professional soldier serving in a foreign army for pay. Of course, the entry goes on to point out that the service is primarily for pay. That word "mercenary" doesn't bother me, hopefully all soldiers are paid--but it's the "serving in a foreign army" that makes B. Franklin's statement stick, since the German troops "took the king's shillings." And that's okay, the German soldiers wanted the better pay, and once here the "new" land looked good enough to many to leave the Fatherland for a fresh start here. Thank God my Hessian was one of them! And I just learned that Christian Schaffer, my ancestor, was from Bad Nauheim, Hesse. He was a POW at the Reading, PA Hessian Camp and was 15 years old when captured. Is anyone else on the List researching Schaffer? Jeri

I don't agree with you. I think it is rediculous for someone to sign up for a chat, get offended because the subject matter is being discussed and then are too stupid to follow the instructions to unsubscribe. Nelda Percival <nelda_percival@hotmail.com> wrote:Hi LIst Members, What John Merz wrote to the member who unsubscribbed was offensive and I privately wrote to him about it. Flaming of any type is not acceptable on this list. When a member has a complaint about another member and what has been writen in an email the best recourse is to notify the List Manager, not respond to the email. Eric, If you still want to unsubscribe, PLease send an email to AMREV-HESSIANS-L-request@rootsweb.com do not write any thing but the word unsubscribe in the subject and the body. Other words just confuse the computer that does the work. Nelda Percival List Manager Nelda L. Percival nee Gilpin, IBSSG http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/ http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gillock/ http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/ ==== AMREV-HESSIANS Mailing List ==== Please stick to our published subject - Hessian Soldiers of the American Revolution, not WWII or the Civil War. No other Immigrants. You can search the archives for a specific message or browse them, going from one message to another. To search: http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/?list=AMREV-HESSIANS To browse: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/AMREV-HESSIANS-L ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site!

Hello Bob. Hello Nelda. Boy, I think I'd be more likely to take argument about the use of the word "mercenary" than I would about the word "Hessian". Imagine - a simple 500 word essay penned by Benjamin Franklin while in France seeking military support from a former enemy (who not but a few years before murdered and massacred colonial men, women, and children at places like Fort William Henry without a second thought) turned volunteers and conscripts alike into mercenaries. You can still hear the ring of Franklin's sword, ere pen, as he scribes the word "mercenary" on parchment battlefield. /R Stephen Washington, DC >-----Original Message----- >From: Bob Brooks [mailto:rcbrooks@pivot.net] >Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 09:44 PM >To: AMREV-HESSIANS-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [HESSIAN] the term Hessian > >Nelda -- > >YOUR term may be Hessian but please don't call it OUR term because to many, >the term "Hessian" is/was intended to be derogatory. > >I believe there were two reasons that "Hessian" became synonomous with >"German" when discussing the auxilary soldiers employed by the British and >deployed to North America. > >First, when the "Hessians" landed at New York in 1776, they were all true >Hessians coming from Hesse-Cassel (except one regiment of true, non-resident >mercenaries recruited by/in Waldeck) consequently all the American >newspapers called the Germans "Hessians" so the name stuck. Meanwhile the >troops from Brunswick and from Hesse-Hanau were sent to Canada, far from the >population centers of North America. > >Second, when the final count was in, something like 70% (plus or minus) of >all the German auxilary troops deployed to North America came from either >Hesse-Casel or Hesse-Hanau. > >The first of the continguent from Ansbach-Bayreuth didn't arrive until the >Philadelphia campaign had begun in 1777 so they, too, were called >"Hessians" when they arrived. The first continguent from Anhalt-Zerbst went >to Canada in 1778 after Burgoyne's army had surrendered and major fighting >had ended in that theatre and the second large deployment in 1782 from >Anhalt-Zerbtst only made it to Halifax where they spent a year in garrison >before returning home. > >As a historian, I prefer to refer to the sponsoring German state to identify >the specific military units, viz-- Hesse-Cassel, Brunswick, >Ansbach-Bayreuth, Hesse-Hanau, and Anhalt-Zerbst (listed here in declining >order of quantiy of troops supplied). > >It really doesn't matter what generic term you you call the German auxilary >troops. Purists will take exception to generic terms and generalist get >annoyed by purists. > >Just don't call them "mercenaries" unless you are referring to the 3. >englisch-waldeckisches Soldregiment, a true mercenary regiment of >non-residents. > >Bob Brooks > > > >==== AMREV-HESSIANS Mailing List ==== >Please stick to our published subject - Hessian Soldiers of the >American Revolution, not WWII or the Civil War. No other Immigrants. >You can search the archives for a specific message or browse them, going from one message to another. >To search: http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/?list=AMREV-HESSIANS >To browse: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/AMREV-HESSIANS-L > >============================== >Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the >last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > >

Yes, thanks Nelda, the term Hessian is a catch all as I was aware. Anecdotal history in our family refers to Johannes Weiss simply as a Hessian soldier who did not want to go back to Germany and settled on a land grant provided by George Washington near Crab Bottom (now Blue Grass) VA. Actually, he first settled in Fort Seybert, Pendleton Co. (now WV) He and Karl Haldermann ( aka Charles Halterman) are listed in the local militia together. There were two Johannes Weiss Brunswickers, both reported killed at Bennington. So my search continues as to the true origin of Johannes Weiss in America. John White Newcastle, WA

Nelda -- YOUR term may be Hessian but please don't call it OUR term because to many, the term "Hessian" is/was intended to be derogatory. I believe there were two reasons that "Hessian" became synonomous with "German" when discussing the auxilary soldiers employed by the British and deployed to North America. First, when the "Hessians" landed at New York in 1776, they were all true Hessians coming from Hesse-Cassel (except one regiment of true, non-resident mercenaries recruited by/in Waldeck) consequently all the American newspapers called the Germans "Hessians" so the name stuck. Meanwhile the troops from Brunswick and from Hesse-Hanau were sent to Canada, far from the population centers of North America. Second, when the final count was in, something like 70% (plus or minus) of all the German auxilary troops deployed to North America came from either Hesse-Casel or Hesse-Hanau. The first of the continguent from Ansbach-Bayreuth didn't arrive until the Philadelphia campaign had begun in 1777 so they, too, were called "Hessians" when they arrived. The first continguent from Anhalt-Zerbst went to Canada in 1778 after Burgoyne's army had surrendered and major fighting had ended in that theatre and the second large deployment in 1782 from Anhalt-Zerbtst only made it to Halifax where they spent a year in garrison before returning home. As a historian, I prefer to refer to the sponsoring German state to identify the specific military units, viz-- Hesse-Cassel, Brunswick, Ansbach-Bayreuth, Hesse-Hanau, and Anhalt-Zerbst (listed here in declining order of quantiy of troops supplied). It really doesn't matter what generic term you you call the German auxilary troops. Purists will take exception to generic terms and generalist get annoyed by purists. Just don't call them "mercenaries" unless you are referring to the 3. englisch-waldeckisches Soldregiment, a true mercenary regiment of non-residents. Bob Brooks