The following is another excerpt from the article entitled: "Hessians at Fort Frederick: A Story Revisited by P.Kirby Gull". "The ultimate and final defeat of British forces at Yorktown on 19 October 1781 was both humiliating and conclusive. Cornwallis refused to face his victors personally and, like, Burgoyne, tried to negotiate the parole of his men. General Washington was firm- the army must be surrendered and taken to camps of confinement. Washington prevailed. Washington's General Orders for 25 October divided the prisoners as follows: Those to be sent to Winchester include: the Artillery, 193; Guards, 467; Twenty-sixth Foot, 625; a battalion of Anspach, 948; Queen's Rangers, 248; Pioneers, 33 in all 3029. Those to be forwarded to Fort Frederick, Md.: Light Infantry, 594; Seventeenth Foot, 205; Thirty-Third Foot, 225; Seventy-first Foot, 242; Eightieth Foot, 558; Hereditary Prince, 425; Regiment Du Bose, 271; Jagers, 68; British Legion, 192; and North Carolina Volunteers, 114;. For a total destined for Fort Frederick of 2924. Reaching Alexandria on 2 November, the prisoners were divided into two groups, one for Winchester, Virginia and the other for Fort Frederick, Maryland. Not less than 2000 proceeded to Maryland, the remainder to Winchester. The first contingent of Yorktown prisoners, directed to Fort Frederick, entered the rolling countryside somewhere in western Maryland prior to 10 November. It is uncertain exactly where they may have crossed the Potomac and where Colonel Philip Thomas transferred them under his guard. What is clear is the final decision about where to confine them had not been reached prior to their crossing into Maryland. The Council of Maryland, reluctant to make the final decision, approached Colonels Rawlings and Philip Thomas, Lieutenant of Frederick County. The Council told them to consult with each other and decide where to billit the captives. Although it specifically instructed Rawlings that, " Part of them are to be kept in Frederick Town" and Thomas "to receive as many as many of the prisoners as possible at Fort Frederick" the two men eventually agreed to "keep the whole of the prisoners at the Barricks at Frederick Town". The captives originally designated for Fort Frederick, including the two Regiments, Erbprinz [Hereditary Prince] and von Bose, entered imprisonment at Frederick Town. The British Light Infantry, 17th Foot, 23rd Foot, 71st Foot, 80th Foot, British Legion, some Jagers and a group of North Carolina Volunteers most likely entered captivity about the same time. Rawlings reported between 1500 aqnd 1800 prisoners at Frederick Town by the first week in December. Arriving on 31 January 1782, diarists Johann Doehla, Stephen Poop, and Johann Prechtel found the German regiments already confined there. In fact, both Doehla and Popp noted on 1 February the Hereditary Prince and von Bose transferred from the Frederick County Poorhouse to the Barricks. There are no references that either Regiment had been at Fort Frederick." The author makes it quite clear there were no Hessians at Fort Frederick. Howard F. Horne, PG NSSAR > I am fortunate enough to live right in between Fort Frederick, just outside of > Clear Spring in Washington County, MD AND The Hessian Barracks in Frederick, > Frederick County, MD. Both are very awe inspiring, especially knowing a little > bit more about the war and the prisoners now. If you ever have the chance to > visit either location, please do. > > The guides at both locations have no specific information about the men or their > regiments. It would be nice if someone could compile a list of compiles sources > and infomation for them. > > Cindy H. > > > ==== AMREV-HESSIANS Mailing List ==== > 6000 Hessian soldiers remained in North America after the end of the war in > 1783. The majority settled in the Eastern United States and Canada. > You can search the archives for a specific message or browse them, going from > one message to another. > To search: http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/?list=AMREV-HESSIANS > To browse: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/AMREV-HESSIANS-L > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx >

I am fortunate enough to live right in between Fort Frederick, just outside of Clear Spring in Washington County, MD AND The Hessian Barracks in Frederick, Frederick County, MD. Both are very awe inspiring, especially knowing a little bit more about the war and the prisoners now. If you ever have the chance to visit either location, please do. The guides at both locations have no specific information about the men or their regiments. It would be nice if someone could compile a list of compiles sources and infomation for them. Cindy H.

Hi Again: Fort Frederick was in fact used as a prison camp. British soldiers were imprisoned there- not Hessians. Howard Horne > Hello Howard; > Hello Hessians; > > Mark M. Boatner III's book "Landmarks of the American > Revolution, People and Places vital to the Quest for > Independence - page 138: > Fort Frederick, Potomac River near Clear Spring, Washington > County. Etc., etc.; During the Revolution it was used as a > prison camp. Etc., The State of Maryland acquired it, conducted > archaelogical research, and reconstructed or restored the > walls and other features as part of a 279-acre park with a > museum and recreational facilities. > It is off U.S.40, five miles south of Clear Spring. > > Is this the one you are writing about? > My Maryland Highway map does not show this location. > In any event, it is not the Frederick, Maryland, which has > the 'Hessian barracks'. > > Regards, > John Helmut Merz > (btw. Bruce E. Burgoyne's translation of "Doehle's Diary" in > the Index, check 'Forts': Frederick, Md., page 187, and pages > 198-222. I think page 187 is correct, but 192-222 refers to > Frederick, Maryland.) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <hhorne04@comcast.net> > Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 3:10 PM > Subject: [HESSIAN] Fort Frederick > > > > Hi: > > > > In the recent past I have seen references to Hessians at Fort Frederick, > Maryland. > > I have just completed reading an article in Johannes Schwalm Historical > publication, Volume 8, 2005. P. Kirby Gull wrote an article on Hessians at > Fort Frederick: A Story Revisited. > > I quote: "A review of the official journals of the Hessen-Casel von Bose > and Erbprinz Regiments and the correspondence of Hessian commanders von > Knyphausen and von Lossberg with the landgraf revealed no mention of German > prisoners at Fort Frederick. There are references to Winchester, Virginia > and Frederick Town, Maryland as the sites to which the German prisoners had > been sent. > > The consulted sources do not support the presence of German Yorktown > captives at Fort Frederick. Nor is there support for their presence there > at any other time during the war. Of course, a random few may have found > their way behind the Fort's formidable 4-foot thick walls. However, the > evidence is seriously lacking for any large and intentional incarceration of > Hessian captives. > > The legend of Hessian prisoners at Fort Frederick has left an obstinate > detour in historical perception. It has obfuscated and discouraged a true > understanding about an important time in Maryland's Revolutionary history. > It is hoped that the preceding effort, in some small measure, has dispelled > some of the uncertainty." > > > > Howard F. Horne, PG NSSAR > > > ==== AMREV-HESSIANS Mailing List ==== > The subject of this list - Hessian Soldiers of the American Revolution No other > wars - no other German immigrants. Please stick to the subject. You can search > the archives for a specific message or browse them, going from one message to > another. > To search: http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/?list=AMREV-HESSIANS > To browse: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/AMREV-HESSIANS-L > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >

Hi: Fort Frederick is in the far western part of Maryland. If you travel I-68 there is a road marker indicating the turnoff to get to the location of Fort Frederick. Howard Horne > Hello Howard; > Hello Hessians; > > Mark M. Boatner III's book "Landmarks of the American > Revolution, People and Places vital to the Quest for > Independence - page 138: > Fort Frederick, Potomac River near Clear Spring, Washington > County. Etc., etc.; During the Revolution it was used as a > prison camp. Etc., The State of Maryland acquired it, conducted > archaelogical research, and reconstructed or restored the > walls and other features as part of a 279-acre park with a > museum and recreational facilities. > It is off U.S.40, five miles south of Clear Spring. > > Is this the one you are writing about? > My Maryland Highway map does not show this location. > In any event, it is not the Frederick, Maryland, which has > the 'Hessian barracks'. > > Regards, > John Helmut Merz > (btw. Bruce E. Burgoyne's translation of "Doehle's Diary" in > the Index, check 'Forts': Frederick, Md., page 187, and pages > 198-222. I think page 187 is correct, but 192-222 refers to > Frederick, Maryland.) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <hhorne04@comcast.net> > Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 3:10 PM > Subject: [HESSIAN] Fort Frederick > > > > Hi: > > > > In the recent past I have seen references to Hessians at Fort Frederick, > Maryland. > > I have just completed reading an article in Johannes Schwalm Historical > publication, Volume 8, 2005. P. Kirby Gull wrote an article on Hessians at > Fort Frederick: A Story Revisited. > > I quote: "A review of the official journals of the Hessen-Casel von Bose > and Erbprinz Regiments and the correspondence of Hessian commanders von > Knyphausen and von Lossberg with the landgraf revealed no mention of German > prisoners at Fort Frederick. There are references to Winchester, Virginia > and Frederick Town, Maryland as the sites to which the German prisoners had > been sent. > > The consulted sources do not support the presence of German Yorktown > captives at Fort Frederick. Nor is there support for their presence there > at any other time during the war. Of course, a random few may have found > their way behind the Fort's formidable 4-foot thick walls. However, the > evidence is seriously lacking for any large and intentional incarceration of > Hessian captives. > > The legend of Hessian prisoners at Fort Frederick has left an obstinate > detour in historical perception. It has obfuscated and discouraged a true > understanding about an important time in Maryland's Revolutionary history. > It is hoped that the preceding effort, in some small measure, has dispelled > some of the uncertainty." > > > > Howard F. Horne, PG NSSAR > > > ==== AMREV-HESSIANS Mailing List ==== > The subject of this list - Hessian Soldiers of the American Revolution No other > wars - no other German immigrants. Please stick to the subject. You can search > the archives for a specific message or browse them, going from one message to > another. > To search: http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/?list=AMREV-HESSIANS > To browse: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/AMREV-HESSIANS-L > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >

On 25 Oct 1781, George Washington ordered Col. Abraham Skinner, Commissary General of Prisoners to send 2,924 POWs who had recently surrendered at Yorktown to Fort Frederick, including 425 POWs from the Regiment Erbprinz (Hereditary Prince) and 271 POWs from the Regiment von Bose. This link is a scan of the orginal document now at the Library of Congress. http://memory.loc.gov/mss/mgw/mgw4/081/0800/0803.jpg I do not know whether or not they actually arrived at Fort Frederick or were diverted en route. If memory serves, all the POWs were marched as a group to Fredericksburg where, after a few days, the parties were marched different directions. Bob Brooks

Hi: In the recent past I have seen references to Hessians at Fort Frederick, Maryland. I have just completed reading an article in Johannes Schwalm Historical publication, Volume 8, 2005. P. Kirby Gull wrote an article on Hessians at Fort Frederick: A Story Revisited. I quote: "A review of the official journals of the Hessen-Casel von Bose and Erbprinz Regiments and the correspondence of Hessian commanders von Knyphausen and von Lossberg with the landgraf revealed no mention of German prisoners at Fort Frederick. There are references to Winchester, Virginia and Frederick Town, Maryland as the sites to which the German prisoners had been sent. The consulted sources do not support the presence of German Yorktown captives at Fort Frederick. Nor is there support for their presence there at any other time during the war. Of course, a random few may have found their way behind the Fort's formidable 4-foot thick walls. However, the evidence is seriously lacking for any large and intentional incarceration of Hessian captives. The legend of Hessian prisoners at Fort Frederick has left an obstinate detour in historical perception. It has obfuscated and discouraged a true understanding about an important time in Maryland's Revolutionary history. It is hoped that the preceding effort, in some small measure, has dispelled some of the uncertainty." Howard F. Horne, PG NSSAR

Hello Howard; Hello Hessians; Mark M. Boatner III's book "Landmarks of the American Revolution, People and Places vital to the Quest for Independence - page 138: Fort Frederick, Potomac River near Clear Spring, Washington County. Etc., etc.; During the Revolution it was used as a prison camp. Etc., The State of Maryland acquired it, conducted archaelogical research, and reconstructed or restored the walls and other features as part of a 279-acre park with a museum and recreational facilities. It is off U.S.40, five miles south of Clear Spring. Is this the one you are writing about? My Maryland Highway map does not show this location. In any event, it is not the Frederick, Maryland, which has the 'Hessian barracks'. Regards, John Helmut Merz (btw. Bruce E. Burgoyne's translation of "Doehle's Diary" in the Index, check 'Forts': Frederick, Md., page 187, and pages 198-222. I think page 187 is correct, but 192-222 refers to Frederick, Maryland.) ----- Original Message ----- From: <hhorne04@comcast.net> Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 3:10 PM Subject: [HESSIAN] Fort Frederick > Hi: > > In the recent past I have seen references to Hessians at Fort Frederick, Maryland. > I have just completed reading an article in Johannes Schwalm Historical publication, Volume 8, 2005. P. Kirby Gull wrote an article on Hessians at Fort Frederick: A Story Revisited. > I quote: "A review of the official journals of the Hessen-Casel von Bose and Erbprinz Regiments and the correspondence of Hessian commanders von Knyphausen and von Lossberg with the landgraf revealed no mention of German prisoners at Fort Frederick. There are references to Winchester, Virginia and Frederick Town, Maryland as the sites to which the German prisoners had been sent. > The consulted sources do not support the presence of German Yorktown captives at Fort Frederick. Nor is there support for their presence there at any other time during the war. Of course, a random few may have found their way behind the Fort's formidable 4-foot thick walls. However, the evidence is seriously lacking for any large and intentional incarceration of Hessian captives. > The legend of Hessian prisoners at Fort Frederick has left an obstinate detour in historical perception. It has obfuscated and discouraged a true understanding about an important time in Maryland's Revolutionary history. It is hoped that the preceding effort, in some small measure, has dispelled some of the uncertainty." > > Howard F. Horne, PG NSSAR

Hello ; I am seeking information abt. my Ancestor, EDEL - EDELL , first name unkn. , I have traced back to HENRY H. EDEL - EDELL , b. abt. 1832 in Phila. area , his parents are poss. MATTHIAS EDEL & PHOEBE BAKEOVEN but I am not sure - There was a CHRISTIAN EDEL in Germantown, died 1769, will proved 1771, could maybe be his Grandfather; also there were two EDELs shown as Hessian Soldiers in the Archives ... If there is an EDEL lister I would love to hear from you, I have been unable to trace back any further than HENRY H. and am trying to find the link back to Germany.... Thank you, Sally Edell Dutton

Well, as long as I receive the PML Search reports, I may as well forward them for your amusement - John. (Georg Flicke, listed in my 'GUIDE' soldier of the Brunswickers, deserted 20 Dec 1778 near the Potomac. ----- Original Message ----- From: <my.chinadolls@verizon.net> Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 11:14 PM > Source: OHMORROW-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: Lookup: Death Record, obituary, burial > > This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. > > Message Board URL: > http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/JZB.2ACI/713.1 > > Message Board Post: > > According to the book "George Fluckey the Hessian Soldier and his Decendants" Mary Ellen Loy Fluckey died November 26, 1887 of consumption. She is buried in Rivercliff Cemetery, Mt Gilead, Morrow Co., OH.

Hi Bob / Stacy, For the past several years I've been researching FreeMason origins. The authors of Holy Blood, Holy Grail champion the theroy that early important Jewish families displaced by the Roman government married into the royal families of France, Norway, Denmark, and Sweden. If not mistaken the Landgrave of Hesse-Cassel was also the King of Sweden. As Christianity is niether a nationality nor a birthright it is likely that Frederick had bloodlines back to an earlier Jewish heritage. /R Stephen >-----Original Message----- >From: Stacey Maddox [mailto:stacey.23@insightbb.com] >Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 07:37 PM >To: AMREV-HESSIANS-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [HESSIAN] American Consulate Document Question > >Hi Bob, > >Thanks for the reply. > >Here's a little more info...I received the letter recently (2005) from a >distant cousin who originally received it from another distant cousin in >1987. The lady that originally wrote the letter in 1987 got the information >from her father's files. He was born in 1893 and died in 1985 and according >to the letters had the family traced back to the 1500's. > >Here is the part of the letter that mentions the American Consulate... >"...Julian I'van Fisher and Rebecca I'llean (Irvington) Fisher were married >in 1754 - from the Landgraves of Hesse-Cassel, Germany. Julian I'van Fisher >is a son of Jewish parents which reflects back as far as the 13th century, >pure Jewish ancestry. Born in 1701 in the Landgraves of Hesse-Cassel, >Germany. He married Rebecca in 1754 in the Landgraves of Hesse-Cassel, >Germany. The marriage record is 18,182 - page 165 Section A. The American >Consulate Letter File -Private 18,542 and Section 54 gives the ascendency is >pure Jewish blood as far back as the 13th century...." [Julian and Rebecca >Fisher are the parents of John, Jacob, and Emeritus - all three of whom were >Hessian soldiers.] > >When Nelda suggested I try the Consulate in New York (thanks Nelda!), I went >looking for it on the internet and found a website... >http://www.germany-info.org/relaunch/info/missions/consulates/newyork/newyork.html >Click on Information Services --> Consular Services --> Other Consular >Services --> Genealogy. I assume that when he did his research that he used >the Consular's Services and did not go to Germany, so maybe when the letter >says "The American Consulate Letter" that was just his way of documenting >it. I don't know for sure, but sure would like to see that letter if is >does indeed exist. > >I am also still looking for the originator of the letter who has since moved >(she would be about 77 now) because she also mentioned in it that she had >her father's files put into a storage area because she didn't think anyone >else was interested. > >Stacey > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Bob Brooks" <rcbrooks@pivot.net> >To: <AMREV-HESSIANS-L@rootsweb.com> >Cc: <stacey.23@insightbb.com> >Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 5:49 PM >Subject: Re: [HESSIAN] American Consulate Document Question > > >> Stacey -- >> >> There is something "fishy" with this report of a letter from the "American >> Consulate." Remember, America -- The United States of America -- didn't >> exist until the peace of 1783 and until 1789 there was only an interim >> government. In 1754 every the "original states" were provinces/colonies >of >> Great Britain. >> >> Given that the letter is correctly identified, then the date of the letter >> is extremely important. This sounds like something to do with >immigration. >> Many of the records of the various "Hessian" soldiers who served in >America >> 1776-1783 stated the soldiers' religion -- I have seen Catholic, Reformed, >> Evangelist, and rarely Jewish all enumerated. I may be naive but ask "Why >> would the American government be interested in Jewish roots going back to >> the 13th century." The letter sounds like something from the 1930s or >very >> early 1940s where a German-Jew was attempting to seek religious asylum in >> the USA. When Germany & the USA declared war, the US Embassy and all the >> consular offices in Germany were closed. >> >> Old "American Consulate" letters would be found in the National Archives >> somewhere in the State Department collections. Embassies and Consular >> office records doubtless will be organized by issuing Embassy/Consulate >and >> date of issue. Somewhere you should be ablle to identify the Consulate >> involved. >> >> Bob Brooks >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Stacey Maddox" <stacey.23@insightbb.com> >> To: <AMREV-HESSIANS-L@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 3:32 PM >> Subject: [HESSIAN] American Consulate Document Question >> >> >> > Hi, >> > >> > I have recently received a letter from a distant cousin who's father had >> > researched my Hessian ancestor (Fisher) as far back as the 13th century. >> > However, I've only been able to get names back 3 generations. Anyway, >the >> > letter says that my 4th Great-Grandparents were married 1754 in the >> > Landgraves of Hesse-Cassel, Germany and documentation giving "American >> > Consulate Letter File" with the record number, page number, and section >> > number. It also says that the ancestry is pure Jewish blood as far back >> > as the 13th century and that is documented in "American Consulate Letter >> > File" with a private number and section number. >> > >> > How would I go about getting copies of these American Consulate Letters? >> > >> > Thanks, >> > >> > Stacey >> >> > > >==== AMREV-HESSIANS Mailing List ==== >To unsubscribe click on AMREV-HESSIANS-L-request@rootsweb.com >and write one single word unsubscribe in subject line and text field. >No other words or explanations or it won't work. >~~~~~~~~~~~ >You can search the archives for a specific message or browse them, going from one message to another. >To search: http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/?list=AMREV-HESSIANS >To browse: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/AMREV-HESSIANS-L > >============================== >Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the >last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > >

Hi, Please cut off old messages, when answering an email.... You only need to leave enough to let the person know what your talking about. The repeating of all the old messages is not needed and just overloads the archives... as long as you don't alter the subject line all the emails will be linked .... So Please try to remember to remove what is not needed! Thank you Nelda List manager Nelda L. Percival nee Gilpin, IBSSG http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/ http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gillock/ http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/

Jim -- > Am I justified in assuming that there are Monatliche Listen and perhaps > other records created by these units that are not listed in HETRINA? I believe that all the known, applicable Monatlich Listen -[monthly lists] were used in HETRINA. The far right column is the citation of the record. Anything starting SRxxx is a Stammrolle and anything starting 88xx/xx is from a monthly list. HETRINA includes a few other documents. For example, RL69,xx is from the book of officer's promotion; 4h410/xxx is the monthly lists for the Trenton POWs, etc. Are there other materials not included in the HETRINA series? I don't know but I would be very surprized to learn that there were NOT items missed. The HETRINA series is simply an annotated index to the records found in the archives. It was put together by the students at the Archivschule Marburg and the data was keypunched onto IBM 80 column cards, then run through a card sorter. Data was manipulated (especially names) so the the cards sorted the way they wanted them to but this was "state of the art" in database design in the early 1970s. Some entries required two cards to report one entry. For example, in the records of Regiment Erbprinz (code: ERB) you will find a lot of records dated 5:1783 with the same source sitation but on is code 11 (POW) and the other is code 12 (deserted). On the surface, it appears that they deserted from POW status in May 1783 but waht the record really says is that on 14 May 1783 when they went to round up all the POW who had surrendered at Yorktown 20 months earlier, these fellas were no shows. This means they may have deserted anytime since the prior report. Bob Brooks

Thanks, Bob, for the explanation of the HETRINA listings. Am I justified in assuming that there are Monatliche Listen and perhaps other records created by these units that are not listed in HETRINA? Jim Funkhouser ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Brooks" <rcbrooks@pivot.net> To: <AMREV-HESSIANS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 9:09 PM Subject: Re: [HESSIAN] definition of term used in HETRINA >> HETRINA says a Hessian soldier was recruited or inducted in June 1777 and >> appointed in the unit rolls in Feb. 1783 > >> What does "appointed in the unit rolls" mean? > > Code 01 "genannt, insbesondere in den Rangierlisten" was translated by the > HETRINA scholars as "appointed, especially in the unit rolls." The word > "genannt" is an ajective, the past participle of the irregular verb > "nennen." Instead of "appointed" I would say "named, especially in the > unit rolls." If you examine the application of Code 01, you with see that > almost universally the reference begins with SR indicating a Stammrolle > (Maß- und Rangierlisten). For most of the Hesse-Cassel Regiments, HETRINA > cites the SR preceeding and following the deployment to America. Many are > undated except for the year; i.e., "0:1775" and "1783" or "1784" or even > "1785," depending on the availability of the "next" SR. The dates > referenced on some SRs suggests thet were dated in America. The majority > of the other entries in HETRINA are generated from the Monatliche Listen > [monthly lists] generated in America. These all start with a four digit > "blaue Nr." [blue number] begining 88xx. There is no significance to the > "blaue Nr" other than a refernce to the storage location. The monthly > lists only report exceptions to behavior and if a man joined after the > 1775 SR and was discharged before the next SR and was never in trouble, > never promoted, never captured, never transferred, etc., etc., HETRINA > would not list the man although he would have severved over six years in > America. > > Code 02 versus a June 1777 date say that he was one of the 1777 > replacement recruits. If the only other listing is Code 01 versus a Feb > 1783 SR, then it means there was nothing to report in the interim. I have > never viewed a SR so can't make an authorative statement. I have seen a > few of the monthly lists which vary signifivcantly between the regiments. > > Bob Brooks

Thank you for responding. Joy ----- Original Message ----- From: "George McCallum" <gmc@armct.com> To: <AMREV-HESSIANS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 8:20 AM Subject: RE: [HESSIAN] German Ancestor > Hi Joy: > > I don't have any specific knowledge about your ancestor, William > Pala[lt]ine, > but I would go looking for him among the pre-war German immigrants to > America. > > If he was born in 1715, he would be over 60 by the time the British were > recruiting Hessians. Now, if he died in 1819, he lived to a ripe old age > (104), so he could well have been in good health at age 60, but I doubt > he would have been recruited. > > Also, if his son was born in 1765, that would be still back in Germany. > If your records place his son in America, that's another indication that > your ancestor was probably not a Hessian soldier. > > George McCallum > > ---------- Original Message ---------- > From: "Joy Stevenson" <jars7@bellsouth.net> > To: AMREV-HESSIANS-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [HESSIAN] German Ancestor > Date sent: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 22:13:49 -0500 > Send reply to: "Joy Stevenson" <jars7@bellsouth.net> > Forwarded by: AMREV-HESSIANS-L@rootsweb.com > Date forwarded: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 21:13:41 -0600 > > > The name of my ancestor was William Palaline as has been researched. My > uncle told me he was a Hessian soldier that was recruited for King George > of England. > > He was born in 1715 and died in 1819. > > I believe his name was originally Palatine, and either changed the > spelling, or if a tombstone was found, the line crossing the "t" in > Palatine was worn off over the years. > > My uncle said his name is on the Valley Forge records for the > Revolutionary War. > > He had a son, John, born September 13, 1765. > > There is also a name on the family tree Jacob Fronica born 1764. > > I would appreciate it if you could send me any information. This is all > the information I have from the time of the Revolutionary War. > > Thank You, > > Joy Stevenson > > > > > ==== AMREV-HESSIANS Mailing List ==== > Mail List archives are your best bet to find information,You can search > the archives for a specific message or browse them, going from one message > to another. > To search: http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/?list=AMREV-HESSIANS > To browse: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/AMREV-HESSIANS-L > To unsubscribe from the -D version of the > list:AMREV-HESSIANS-D-request@rootsweb.com and write one single word > unsubscribe in subject line and text field. No other words or > explanations or it won't work. > you must unsub from the version you are subscribed to -D for that address > and -L for that one, don't get them mixed up...or you won't unsubscribe. > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx >

Hi Joy: I don't have any specific knowledge about your ancestor, William Pala[lt]ine, but I would go looking for him among the pre-war German immigrants to America. If he was born in 1715, he would be over 60 by the time the British were recruiting Hessians. Now, if he died in 1819, he lived to a ripe old age (104), so he could well have been in good health at age 60, but I doubt he would have been recruited. Also, if his son was born in 1765, that would be still back in Germany. If your records place his son in America, that's another indication that your ancestor was probably not a Hessian soldier. George McCallum ---------- Original Message ---------- From: "Joy Stevenson" <jars7@bellsouth.net> To: AMREV-HESSIANS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [HESSIAN] German Ancestor Date sent: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 22:13:49 -0500 Send reply to: "Joy Stevenson" <jars7@bellsouth.net> Forwarded by: AMREV-HESSIANS-L@rootsweb.com Date forwarded: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 21:13:41 -0600 The name of my ancestor was William Palaline as has been researched. My uncle told me he was a Hessian soldier that was recruited for King George of England. He was born in 1715 and died in 1819. I believe his name was originally Palatine, and either changed the spelling, or if a tombstone was found, the line crossing the "t" in Palatine was worn off over the years. My uncle said his name is on the Valley Forge records for the Revolutionary War. He had a son, John, born September 13, 1765. There is also a name on the family tree Jacob Fronica born 1764. I would appreciate it if you could send me any information. This is all the information I have from the time of the Revolutionary War. Thank You, Joy Stevenson

Robert, on 18 Jul 2005 at 20:47, you sent the following: <snip> > In the above cases, a chasseur is not a jaeger. However, I have seen where > Hessian Jaegers are referred to as Chasseurs, which confuses everybody. In > the case of the Hanauers, I've seen the Hanau Jager Corps (which spent most > of the war in Canada) described as Chasseurs too. I don't know how the German-speakers of the time used the French word: "chasseur", but I believe that "chasseur" in French means the same as "Jaeger" does in German; i.e. "hunter". A poetic way to describe a company of soldiers, I'm sure. George McCallum

>>> Should anyone be interested, here are some > un-translated (and not proof-read although many spelling errors were found > in the original) text from T 38/812, f. 216. Oops! The correct cite is UK/TNA, T 38/812, f. 176. Bob Brooks

The name of my ancestor was William Palaline as has been researched. My uncle told me he was a Hessian soldier that was recruited for King George of England. He was born in 1715 and died in 1819. I believe his name was originally Palatine, and either changed the spelling, or if a tombstone was found, the line crossing the "t" in Palatine was worn off over the years. My uncle said his name is on the Valley Forge records for the Revolutionary War. He had a son, John, born September 13, 1765. There is also a name on the family tree Jacob Fronica born 1764. I would appreciate it if you could send me any information. This is all the information I have from the time of the Revolutionary War. Thank You, Joy Stevenson jars7@bellsouth.net

George -- > I don't know how the German-speakers of the time used the French word: > "chasseur", but I believe that "chasseur" in French means the same as > "Jaeger" does in German; i.e. "hunter". French was the international language of diplomacy a the time of the War of American Independence and conseqently the official correspondence between the Germans and the British was in French. Many of the German officers signed their names in French as well; hence "von Bose" becomes "De Bose", etc. The Ansbach-Bayreuth payrolls found in T 38/812 at the UK's The National Archives even convert the soldiers given names to the equivilent given name in French. Should anyone be interested, here are some un-translated (and not proof-read although many spelling errors were found in the original) text from T 38/812, f. 216. This was the Jäger company commanded by Christoph Friedrich Joseph von Waldenfels which Städtler coded as company "J I". [Heading] Compagnie des Chasseurs Du Capitaine de Waldenfels, des Trouppes, pour Son Altesse Serenissime le Marggrave de Brandenbourg Anspach pour 183. Jours de 25me Juin, jusq’au 24. December 1782, inclusivement las deux Jours. [endorsement] I certifie que les Hommes absents sont effictivs que les raisons exporées, contre eux Sont juster et que auxe Sons order ainsi, que les prisoniers de Guerre porn les derniers etats, reçies sont egallement effectivs. [signed] Christophle de Waldenfels Capt: Comandant du Bataillon Passée donc en Revüe le susdite Corps Chasseors d’ Anspac, savvir Lieutenant Colonel, duex Premier Lieutenants, deux Second Lieutenants, deux Sergeants, un Fourier, cinq Caporaux, un Chirurgien, deux Musiciens, quatre-vingt et quarts Chasseurs le tout duement Complettement Armee. Fait Long Island, Norwich, le 13 Martz 1783. [Summary tables omitted] [signed] Christophle de Waldenfels Capt: Comandant du Bataillon

> HETRINA says a Hessian soldier was recruited or inducted in June 1777 and > appointed in the unit rolls in Feb. 1783 > What does "appointed in the unit rolls" mean? Code 01 "genannt, insbesondere in den Rangierlisten" was translated by the HETRINA scholars as "appointed, especially in the unit rolls." The word "genannt" is an ajective, the past participle of the irregular verb "nennen." Instead of "appointed" I would say "named, especially in the unit rolls." If you examine the application of Code 01, you with see that almost universally the reference begins with SR indicating a Stammrolle (Maß- und Rangierlisten). For most of the Hesse-Cassel Regiments, HETRINA cites the SR preceeding and following the deployment to America. Many are undated except for the year; i.e., "0:1775" and "1783" or "1784" or even "1785," depending on the availability of the "next" SR. The dates referenced on some SRs suggests thet were dated in America. The majority of the other entries in HETRINA are generated from the Monatliche Listen [monthly lists] generated in America. These all start with a four digit "blaue Nr." [blue number] begining 88xx. There is no significance to the "blaue Nr" other than a refernce to the storage location. The monthly lists only report exceptions to behavior and if a man joined after the 1775 SR and was discharged before the next SR and was never in trouble, never promoted, never captured, never transferred, etc., etc., HETRINA would not list the man although he would have severved over six years in America. Code 02 versus a June 1777 date say that he was one of the 1777 replacement recruits. If the only other listing is Code 01 versus a Feb 1783 SR, then it means there was nothing to report in the interim. I have never viewed a SR so can't make an authorative statement. I have seen a few of the monthly lists which vary signifivcantly between the regiments. Bob Brooks