Hi, Is this where we would put the PDFs that John has suggested? Jeri ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nelda Percival" <nelda_percival@hotmail.com> To: <AMREV-HESSIANS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 10:28 AM Subject: @SPAM++++++ [HESSIAN] Hessian Website > Hi, > I was asked a question off list... "Perhaps a brief explanation of exactly > what this additional site would provide us would be in order. " > > What I would like to do, but is open for changes and or additional > information; is this: > > provide a site where someone unknowlegeable about the German soldier who > fought in the Rev War can learn enough to get started in research, a listing > of units, sub units... and as many Hessians (all units not just Hessians) as > we have people who are researching them on this list... > > like say my Johann Jacob Bonstein, Unit, company (small write up) Webpage > url or contact information for the person researching this > ancestor...Pictures if you want.. the content would be up to you... > > If wanted I can provide graphic email address so they can't be spammed. > > > Nelda > LM > > Nelda L. Percival nee Gilpin, IBSSG > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/ > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gillock/ > http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/ > > > > ==== AMREV-HESSIANS Mailing List ==== > Please stick to our published subject - Hessian Soldiers of the > American Revolution, not WWII or the Civil War. No other Immigrants. > You can search the archives for a specific message or browse them, going from one message to another. > To search: http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/?list=AMREV-HESSIANS > To browse: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/AMREV-HESSIANS-L > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429

Hi just a first try... http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/ Nelda L. Percival nee Gilpin, IBSSG http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/ http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gillock/ http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/

Thanks, Bob---again, what a wealth of info you share !! > >I am told that there POW lists for the Hesse-Hanau Regiment Erbprinz in the Library of Congress. > > Perhaps someone can expand on this. I'd need someone near there to check, unless there's a way to get info by mail. I'm on the west coast (with an ailing husband). > >In the AMREV-HESSIAN-L archives search under <Albemarle> for material > >submitted by John Merz and Lion Miles. Been there, read that. That's where I got the day-to-day march info. > > I recommend that anyone interested in the Convention Army obtain a copy of > > the 2001 JOURNAL of the Johannes Schwalm Historical Association Got one coming--hasn't arrived yet. Your suggestions are most appreciated. Jeri

Thanks, Nelda. I really appreciate that. Mary Vogus Hoffman

Hi, I was asked a question off list... "Perhaps a brief explanation of exactly what this additional site would provide us would be in order. " What I would like to do, but is open for changes and or additional information; is this: provide a site where someone unknowlegeable about the German soldier who fought in the Rev War can learn enough to get started in research, a listing of units, sub units... and as many Hessians (all units not just Hessians) as we have people who are researching them on this list... like say my Johann Jacob Bonstein, Unit, company (small write up) Webpage url or contact information for the person researching this ancestor...Pictures if you want.. the content would be up to you... If wanted I can provide graphic email address so they can't be spammed. Nelda LM Nelda L. Percival nee Gilpin, IBSSG http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/ http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gillock/ http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/

You wrote: < < clip> > John ; It is sorry indeed that people would not want to reward you > > for helping with their search ..... now, I am only too glad and eager to > > send you a check for research Sure, Sally, me too. I'd pay many times $10. Probably, quite a few serious researchers would be willing to pay, but alas John is retired! even though he keeps an eye on us. From: "john" > > > Well, what I want to say with this - all my files are now with the > > > S.A.R. Library in Louisville, Kentucky, ... > > > and I will not guarantee it, but your soldiers PDF may be there, or at least some > > >important information ... Guess this is where we'll have to look. Jeri

Hi, Ok this is my first request for information... Needed is a list of the major groups of units. Then a listing of the subornate units under these. Anyone willing to write the introduction yet? Nelda Nelda L. Percival nee Gilpin, IBSSG http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/ http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gillock/ http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/

Hi Listers, I as you all know have a website at rootsweb.com. In freepages at rootsweb they have sections that are indexed seperatly. I would like to use the Military section to create a website for our Hessian mailing list. As you all know, I really know nothing about "OUR" Hessians. I would need a volunteer to write an opening statement about the Hessians and I would want all members to send a little information about their ancestor, with if you have it a website url to offer more information and or email addresses for a person trying to research the same ancestor to be able to contact you. We could include the addresses of where John's research is stored at and how to go about getting info from these sources. It could include pictures or anything you would like to share.... the website url would be listed in the taglines so it would be available to all listers. Is anyone intersted in helping? Is anyone interested at all? I would do the website work, I just need the data... Nelda List Manager Nelda L. Percival nee Gilpin, IBSSG http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/ http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gillock/ http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/

Hi, My cousin Tanya Johnson nee Bonstein sent me copies of the two pages listed above. She did not send the names of the books these were extracted from. I have rewritten her for that information. You can look at the scans on these webpages: new goal at: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/hstry/newgoal1.htm and lancaster at: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/hstry/lancaster.htm As soon as she tells me what book these lists came from I'll let you all know. Nelda Nelda L. Percival nee Gilpin, IBSSG http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/ http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gillock/ http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/

Hahn, Nickolaus Ringer, Martin Siebert, Wilhelm Teufel/Tuefel, Heinrich Walter, Justus Wollenhaupt, Johannes Zimmer, Wilhelm My probable ancestor appears to have been a blacksmith of some sort (Johannes Siebert) and deserted in July l782. His next stop was in l793 in Montgomery Co VA where he married a nice German girl named Catherine Peck. He was next found in Knox and Anderson Co TN around l800 and lived in Anderson Co TN most of the rest of his life. I am interested in the "Migratory trail" of the others in hopes of finding a different area to look for an indenture or oath of allegance. Anyone out there related to any of these men? There were 4 other unsuccessful desertions made but I did not include them in this list. Charles Severs S9359338@aol.com

Dear Hessian descendants; During my twenty years of doing research in the wherabouts of Hessian soldiers in the U.S.A. and Canada, I have typed out countless 'Personal Data Files' for individual Hessian soldiers. Each file (or name) has cost me countless hours of research, in some cases I had very little to go on, in others I had plenty of sources and material, and looking at some copies, there are PDF's with only six or 8 lines, and there are others with a full page, 2 pages, even up to nine pages. In the beginning of my research, I used to mail them to anyone asking for it for free, but I soon found out that this was a bad idea, because anything for free isn't worth much. Right? That's when I started to charge 10 Dollars for a PDF, and guess what, many PDF's I created because someone was asking for it, never were called for, and remained in my files. Work done, but not appreciated. Well, what I want to say with this - all my files are now with the S.A.R. Library in Louisville, Kentucky, the address has been published many times on this list, and I will not guarantee it, but your soldiers PDF may be there, or at least some important information about your Hessian soldier, your Brunswick soldier, your Ansbach-Bayreuth soldier, but your Anhalt-Zerbst soldier may be found in my Canadian repository in Ameliasburg, Ontario. BTW. there was not much to report about my visit to Germany. I'll write about it in the next few days. Yours truly John Helmut Merz retired (and tired) at the shores of Lake Ontario, where finally a cool breeze has brought to an end the 'heat wave'.

Sure, Nelda, My ancestor, Christian Schaeffer was in the Hesse-Hanau Erbprinz Regiment, Company 2. I found him in the "Hesse-Hanau Order Books,..." by Bruce Burgoyne. And in Hetrina, (pg 412 for which I'm indebted to Cindy Hoffman) he was captured--code 11, and entered in the record Sep 1782. Our incredible, retired leader, John, assured me that this unit was captured at Saratoga. From the Archives I found the marches (day by day) to Winterhill and Charlottesville. It's worth reading just to see the hardships those young men faced. And in the Archives, I read that later the prisoners were transferred to Reading, PA. (I read Henry Retzer's history of the Reading POW camp--Berks County, PA Historical Society.) There is no coded entry for desertion in Hetrina, but Code 32 = indentured is there (same entry date in the record 1782 Sep). My problem now is to find some documentation about to whom he indentured himself--for 3 years (that was the standard). One of the listers told me to whom, but I need some kind of proof. Jeri And 6 years later, I find Christian in Berks Co. His story goes on from here. Those Archives are terrific; there is a goldmine of info. I've waded through hundreds of entries, but not all yet. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nelda Percival" > Hi, > I have a question??? > > Your: later turns up indenturing himself near Reading?... was this during > the war? > > How do you know he indentured himself? Insted of like what happened to mine? > >> So can you explain? Please.... > > Nelda

Dear Hessians: This exchange of "Question and Answer" messages to me is proof that nobody really checks anything, and that our AMREV-HESSIANS Mail List archives are truly for the birds. Fotr the 'Birds', yes, for the Birds, because all and everyone of the answers can be found. Every name has been discussed of the one's mentioned recently, But nothing new has been added by anybody. May I make one sugesstion - Everybody knows the form of my 'Personal Data Files', many of you have received them for your 'particular' Hessian. Why don't you post the 'Personal Data File' for your man on this list. You have my permission - Go ahead - start right now! and one can learn from one and the other. Put in Subject Line: PDF Ludwig Geldmacher, Kassel Regt. Rall, or your soldiers name and outfit. Good luck, John Helmut Merz, retired researcher. ----- Original Message ----- From: <moneymakerm@bellsouth.net> To: <AMREV-HESSIANS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 3:17 PM Subject: Re: Re: @WL Re: [HESSIAN] definition of term used in HETRINA > > Nelda: > Ludwig Geldmacher (Keltmacher, Jeltmacher) was capured at Trenton in 1776. Do you have any listing for him? > > Thanks! > > Marcia Moneymaker > > > > The Knyphausen Reg. fought in the battle of Trenton & both Paul and Jacob > > were captured Dec. 26th 1776. Because of lack of jails, prisoners were <SNIP>

Nelda, Where can I find this listing you mention? Still trying to connect my Vogus in Westmoreland 1790 to a Heinrich Voges in eastern Pa. Mary Vogus Hoffman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nelda Percival" <nelda_percival@hotmail.com> To: <AMREV-HESSIANS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 2:23 PM Subject: Re: @WL Re: [HESSIAN] definition of term used in HETRINA > Hi, > I have a question??? > > Your: later turns up indenturing himself near Reading?... was this during > the war? > > How do you know he indentured himself? Insted of like what happened to mine? > > The Knyphausen Reg. fought in the battle of Trenton & both Paul and Jacob > were captured Dec. 26th 1776. Because of lack of jails, prisoners were > assigned to American farmers who were responsible for them. Many were sent > to Lancaster, PA. [ I have a copy of the Composition list of German and > Waldeck prisoners of war, Paulus and Jacob are on it.] Paul was assigned to > David Miller and Jacob to Richard Henry. The Bonstein men were listed on the > Lancaster Exchange list & returned to the Knyphausen Reg. in 1778. > > I had thought when I first started researching that they were auctioned off > to the farmers as a type of slave, or indentured... having to work for the > farmer to pay for thier food and upkeep... > > So can you explain? Please.... > > Nelda > > > > Nelda L. Percival nee Gilpin, IBSSG > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/ > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gillock/ > http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/ > > > > ==== AMREV-HESSIANS Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe click on AMREV-HESSIANS-L-request@rootsweb.com > and write one single word unsubscribe in subject line and text field. > No other words or explanations or it won't work. > ~~~~~~~~~~~ > You can search the archives for a specific message or browse them, going from one message to another. > To search: http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/?list=AMREV-HESSIANS > To browse: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/AMREV-HESSIANS-L > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >

Nelda: Ludwig Geldmacher (Keltmacher, Jeltmacher) was capured at Trenton in 1776. Do you have any listing for him? Thanks! Marcia Moneymaker > The Knyphausen Reg. fought in the battle of Trenton & both Paul and Jacob > were captured Dec. 26th 1776. Because of lack of jails, prisoners were > assigned to American farmers who were responsible for them. Many were sent > to Lancaster, PA. [ I have a copy of the Composition list of German and > Waldeck prisoners of war, Paulus and Jacob are on it.] Paul was assigned to > David Miller and Jacob to Richard Henry. The Bonstein men were listed on the > Lancaster Exchange list & returned to the Knyphausen Reg. in 1778. > > I had thought when I first started researching that they were auctioned off > to the farmers as a type of slave, or indentured... having to work for the > farmer to pay for thier food and upkeep... > > So can you explain? Please.... > > Nelda > > > > Nelda L. Percival nee Gilpin, IBSSG > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/ > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gillock/ > http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/ > > > > ==== AMREV-HESSIANS Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe click on AMREV-HESSIANS-L-request@rootsweb.com > and write one single word unsubscribe in subject line and text field. > No other words or explanations or it won't work. > ~~~~~~~~~~~ > You can search the archives for a specific message or browse them, going from one message to another. > To search: http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/?list=AMREV-HESSIANS > To browse: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/AMREV-HESSIANS-L > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > >

Hi Mary, My cousin Tanya got it, she hired a professional to due some finishing touches on her side of our research. I will write(email) her tonight and ask for a scanned copy of it... and see what I can find. It may be a couple of days...but if more then a week remind me! Nelda Nelda L. Percival nee Gilpin, IBSSG http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/ http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gillock/ http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/

Hi, I have a question??? Your: later turns up indenturing himself near Reading?... was this during the war? How do you know he indentured himself? Insted of like what happened to mine? The Knyphausen Reg. fought in the battle of Trenton & both Paul and Jacob were captured Dec. 26th 1776. Because of lack of jails, prisoners were assigned to American farmers who were responsible for them. Many were sent to Lancaster, PA. [ I have a copy of the Composition list of German and Waldeck prisoners of war, Paulus and Jacob are on it.] Paul was assigned to David Miller and Jacob to Richard Henry. The Bonstein men were listed on the Lancaster Exchange list & returned to the Knyphausen Reg. in 1778. I had thought when I first started researching that they were auctioned off to the farmers as a type of slave, or indentured... having to work for the farmer to pay for thier food and upkeep... So can you explain? Please.... Nelda Nelda L. Percival nee Gilpin, IBSSG http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/ http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gillock/ http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/

----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Brooks" <rcbrooks@pivot.net> > > Does this apply to Hesse-Cassel only? > Yes. The Waldeck (HETRINA V) material is Best. ("Best" that's the German definition? the best way to enter materials in the record?) > I don't own HETRINA VI covering the Hesse-Hanau troops but > the few pages I have copies of ... > The references indicate a separate Bestand and piece numbers, details > of which I expect would be with the front-matter, presumably in the section > in German. ("Bestand" some kind of separate stock or location of materials?) > As for Code 01, I like to think of oversimplifying it as meaning the > response "Here!" or "Present!" in a roll call. I like it ! >The flags of HHE surrendered with Burgoyne at Ssaratoga, >Assuming that your lad is not listed as a POW, then he may have remained wih the rear >echelon. My ancestor Christian Schaeffer was with the Hesse-Hanau troops, Company 2. He's listed in Hetrina and I found him in the Hesse-Hanau Order Books by Bruce Burgoyne, in the Col. v Gall Company. He became a POW--Hetrina shows 82SE. And he indentured himself. Also entered in the books at 82SE. So...he was with Burgoyne at the Saratoga surrender, marched to the prison camps, and later turns up indenturing himself near Reading (where the Hessian POW camp was located.) > > Later on there's a Johannes Schaeffer 19 Nauheim ... 03 71JL > > 30 Nauheim... 11 82NO > >So do we have two soldiers here with their records mixed together?? > > I would say "No!" July 1771 to Nov 1782 is 11 years 4 months and the age > jumped 11 years from 19 to 30. What doesn't make sense to me is why they > are including 1771 records. > > Bob Brooks I wonder if this man may have been a career soldier, inducted in 1771 and subsequently deployed to the Revolutionary forces in 1782. Hetrina lists 82NO--he was captured and indentured himself. Thanks much for the explanations and your help in sorting out this stuff. Jeri

> Your explanation to James Funkhouser helped, but I'm still wondering about > Hetrina listings. > >> >If you examine the application of Code 01, you with see that >> > almost universally the reference begins with SR indicating a Stammrolle >> > The majority of the other entries in HETRINA are generated from the >> > [monthly lists] generated in America. These all start with a four >> > digit >> > "blaue Nr." [blue number] begining 88xx. > > Does this apply to Hesse-Cassel only? Yes. The Waldeck (HETRINA V) material is Best. 118, Nr. 942, 951, 972 (2 parts), and 978. I don't own HETRINA VI covering the Hesse-Hanau troops but the few pages I have copies of idicate three format differences: (1) the line number in the printout has been deleated, (2) instead of calculating a approximate date of birth based on the aged stated in the original, they simply presented the age, and (3) the date format changed from 12:1776 to 76DE. The references indicate a separate Bestand and piece numbers, details of which I expect would be with the front-matter, presumably in the section in German. As for Code 01, I like to think of oversimplifying it as meaning the response "Here!" or "Present!" in a roll call. >>>The page copy I have with the > listings for the Schefer/Schaeffers has no leading numbers at all--SR, > blaue > Nr. 88xx, or any other. It starts with the names only, e.g. > "Schefer/Schaeffer Christian 20 Nauheim D6350 MU HHE2 03 76FE 959,232" > I've pretty well figured out that much, but on the page are 11 entries for > this soldier. > What's confusing is two 01 entries one for MR76 and one AP 79 ??? Three > years apart. > Same regiment and company. What's the deal? Is he waiting for > deployment? March 1776, of course, would be some sort of pre-march or pre-embarkation muster. I don't know the significance of the April 1779 report. The flags of HHE surrendered with Burgoyne at Ssaratoga, but only 347 of the rank and file of the regiment were amoung those who started south in the winter march from Cambridge Mass to Charlottesville Va (only 260 rank & file arrived). There remained a cadre of HHE in Canada after the surrender (probably those sick or wounded or those who were assigned to rear-guard duties so did not surrender). Assuming that your lad is not listed as a POW, then he may have remained wih the rear echelon. > Later on there's a Johannes Schaeffer 19 Nauheim ... 03 71JL > 30 Nauheim... > 11 82NO > I'm told the number before the town is the soldier's age. So do we have > two > soldiers here with their records mixed together?? I would say "No!" July 1771 to Nov 1782 is 11 years 4 months and the age jumped 11 years from 19 to 30. What doesn't make sense to me is why they are including 1771 records. Bob Brooks

Bob, Your explanation to James Funkhouser helped, but I'm still wondering about Hetrina listings. > >If you examine the application of Code 01, you with see that > > almost universally the reference begins with SR indicating a Stammrolle > > The majority of the other entries in HETRINA are generated from the > > [monthly lists] generated in America. These all start with a four digit > > "blaue Nr." [blue number] begining 88xx. Does this apply to Hesse-Cassel only? The page copy I have with the listings for the Schefer/Schaeffers has no leading numbers at all--SR, blaue Nr. 88xx, or any other. It starts with the names only, e.g. "Schefer/Schaeffer Christian 20 Nauheim D6350 MU HHE2 03 76FE 959,232" I've pretty well figured out that much, but on the page are 11 entries for this soldier. What's confusing is two 01 entries one for MR76 and one AP 79 ??? Three years apart. Same regiment and company. What's the deal? Is he waiting for deployment? Later on there's a Johannes Schaeffer 19 Nauheim ... 03 71JL 30 Nauheim... 11 82NO I'm told the number before the town is the soldier's age. So do we have two soldiers here with their records mixed together?? For the "19 yr old"? we have 01 (appointed) 76MR and 79AP Now I realize that this is only the date the item is entered in the records, but 3 years apart? He's a gemeiner in HHE5 in both entries. Jeri . > > > > Bob Brooks > > > ==== AMREV-HESSIANS Mailing List ==== > The subject of this list - Hessian Soldiers of the American Revolution No other wars - no other German immigrants. Please stick to the subject. You can search the archives for a specific message or browse them, going from one message to another. > To search: http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/?list=AMREV-HESSIANS > To browse: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/AMREV-HESSIANS-L > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx