I think Lynn Phifer's account should be rearranged slightly: First: "My ancestor, Jesse Irish, a Quaker with seven sons came to Danby when it was opening." Second: "One son John was killed on his front porch by locals." [not Lynn's original sequence of events] Third: "Apparently Jesse and his sons went to Burgoyne for protection. I have no evidence they ever fought..." And, after that point, the Irish property was confiscated by the colony government, the family moved to Canada, etc., all of which seems like an almost inevitable chain of events once son John had been killed amidst Revolutionary zeal. If folks were shooting at my family, I might just move to Canada too -- and my motives might be misunderstood by those already inclined to think bad thoughts. The problem here must be, What did Quakerism have to do with all this? Did the Revolutionaries make it a practice to slay Quakers up there in the northern reaches of New England? I can't find any Vermont materials, but there is a tiny bit for neighboring New Hampshire in "Revolutionary New Hampshire: An Account of the Social and Political Forces Underlying the Transition from Royal Province to American Commonwealth," by Richard Francis Upton, Dartmouth College, 1936, reprinted 1971 by Octagon Books, NY, pp. 50-51, and 58-59. First, to explain the "Association Test" in New Hampshire: It was a loyalty oath (loyalty to the Revolution). "In New Hampshire a standard covenant known as the Association Test was drawn up by the Committee of Safety [on advice of the Continental Congress] and on April 12 [1776] dispatched to the towns. This test read as follows: 'We, the Subscribers, do hereby solemnly engage, and promise, that we will, to the utmost of our Power, at the Risque of our Lives and Fortunes, with Arms, oppose the Hostile Proceedings of the British Fleets and Armies against the United American Colonies.'" [page 50] Unfortunately, 38 percent of these "Tests" have been lost [page 51], which must be kept in mind below. "Among the most interesting religious groups in New Hampshire to express an opinion of the Revolution were the Quakers and other conscientious objectors. The Association Test showed 131 persons who did not sign for reasons of conscience or religion, preferring not to take sides. Of this number 73 were Quakers. In all there were probably about 200 Quakers in the colony located principally in Weare, Dover, Rochester, Brentwood, and Kensington. The greater part of them expressed their opposition to the general principle of war when the Test was submitted. For a time they were suspected of Loyalism. On November 8, 1777, the House of Representatives ordered a legislative investigation of the records of the Quaker Societies throughout the state. No evidence of a Loyalist tendency seems to have been found. On the whole the religious scruples of the Quakers were tolerated and respected." [pages 58-59] What I find interesting here is that the Quakers of New Hampshire don't seem to have responded to the Association Test as a bloc. But, first recall that 38 percent of the Tests have been lost. Just for fun, let's say -- imagining -- that half of the Quaker responses were lost. So, let's compensate by taking the 73 known Quakers who refused to sign and double that number to 146. Call it 150, just to be really sloppy. With 200 Quakers in the colony altogether, it is implied here that at least 25 percent of them did sign the Test, agreeing to fight the Redcoats "with Arms," even if they did mention, according to the author, a dislike of the general principle of wars. And in reality, it looks like a lot more than 25 percent did so -- more than half of them signed the test, pledging support of the Revolution by arms, *if* a high percentage of Quaker "Tests" were preserved. Such seems to be what's between the lines, with emphasis on the word *seems*. So, maybe a number of Quakers were signing under duress of threats of violence and other nasty things. Or, maybe a number of Quakers made exceptions to their pacifism when it came to Redcoats. Regardless, we read that "for a time they were suspected of Loyalism," which may not have been at all comfortable if there were any mobs around, and in the end the Quaker principles were respected only "on the whole," which implies exceptions where they were not tolerated or respected; i.e., maybe some of them were thrashed. On the other hand, the book says that the New Hampshire Quakers lived primarily at only five towns (out of 155 towns colonywide), so they could have had some safety in numbers at the towns where they were concentrated, with the stragglers left at the mercy of the exceptions to the overall "on the whole" tolerance. It doesn't look like the colony government had any real problems with them, nor did the colony government persecute them, but you never know about some local hotheads out yonder. Combine the above with fellow listmember and colleague Lynn Phifer's report: "My ancestor, Jesse Irish, a Quaker with seven sons came to Danby when it was opening. ... In any case one son John was killed on his front porch by locals." If the mood in Vermont was akin to the mood in New Hampshire, I would see this as an isolated incident rather than a colonywide campaign of terror against the Quakers, not that this would have helped out son John any. At the same time, based on New Hampshire, we really can't say that Jesse Irish was a total pacifist or had failed to sign loyalty oaths just because he was a Quaker. John could have been killed just because he was a Quaker, perhaps, but what little evidence there is about Quakers up thataway just doesn't show them as a solid bloc, nor opposition to them as a solid bloc either. I guess the final word here might be that I can't really say anything about the Quakers up north with confidence, unless maybe someone else on the list has something less vague. What little I found sure is iffy. Lester Powers ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.