Debbie -- > List of Prisoners > William SAYLE > (Protection, 61 years of age does not > mean to be exchanged.) > > Letter from Stephen Moore and John Barnwell to General > N. Greene > (From North Carolina State Records) > PRISON SHIP FORBAY, CHARLES TOWN HARBOUR, > 18th Mary, 1781 I find your query of interest and am answering somewhat reluctantly in fear that I may give you a false lead. as I will be GUESSING in a few places. FACT: There was only one Royal Navy ship in American waters carried on the naval establishment (i.e., subject to all the official administrative requirements as a war ship) officially desigbated as a Prison Ship. This was HMS JERSEY, a former 4th rate, 60-gun, ship of the line built in 1736 and converted into a Hospital Ship in 1771, which on 26 Dec 1780 was officially redesignated a Prison Ship. HMS JERSEY arrived at New York in 1776 and was abandoned there in Nov 1783. FACT: Virtually all the Royal Navy ships carried American prisoners at verious times. Most were taken from ships captured at sea. FACT: Naval POWs and military POWs were not interchangeable. The British proposed "mixing" but this was turned down upon Washington's objection to the Continental Congress. Therefore, Naval POWs were only exchanged for other naval POWs and solidiers for soldiers, etc. The British Commissary General of Prisoners was Joshua Loring, a vile Loyalist who stole supplies from the POWs and sold them but is best known for his wife becoming the mistress of General Sir William owe. The British Commisary General for Naval Prisoners was David Sproat, another Loyalist. To the best of my knowledge, after the British returned from Philadelphia to New York, this office remained in New York The first American Commisary General of Prisoners (with Continental Army rank as Colonel) was Elias Boudinot, appointed in 1777. He was followed by John Beatty and then Abraham Skinner. I have never learned of an American Commissary General of Naval Prisoners. GUESS: British Naval POWs were handled by one of the American Deputy Commissary Generals of Prisoners (Majors) or Assistant Deputy Commissary Generals of prisoners (Captains). GUESS: The American POWs at Charlestown were handled by Loyalist subordinates of the New York office. "(Protection, 61 years of age does not mean to be exchanged.)" FACT: A "Protection" was a document given merchant sailors which exempted them from being impressed into the royal navy. GUESS: "does not mean to be exchanged." looks like he was asking to remain within British control and was exempting himself from the queue of POWs awaiting to be exchanged. FACT: Officers usually were paroled awaiting exchange but seamen were incarcerated. FACT: I can not identify Stephen Moore and John Barnwell. "PRISON SHIP FORBAY, CHARLES TOWN HARBOUR, 18th Mary, 1781" GUESS: "FORBAY" seems a strange name so I suspect this is should be TORBAY. FACT: "Torbay" is a port in Devonshire on "Tor Bay" off the English Channel. HMS TORBAY was a 3rd-rate, 74-gun, ship of the line, manned by 600 men. Built in 1750, in 1781 she was assigned to the Leeward Islands station under the command of Captain John Lewis Gidoin. I have no record of HMS TORBAY serving in American waters until 1783. GUESS: HMS TORBAY was too deep (i.e., drew too much water) to get over the bar and get into Charlestown (now Charleston SC) harbour. "18th Mary, 1781" FACT: Vice Admiral Arbuthnot's Line of Battle on 16 March 1781 DID NOT include HMS TORBAY. On 14 May 1781 Vice Admiral Arbuthnot was back at Sandy Hook. COMMENTS: (1) The possibility exists that a transport ship named FORBAY (or TORBAY) had been pressed into service as a floating prison. This was a common practice by both sides. I have a list of several hundred of the transport ships employed by the British but do not find a transport named FORBAY (or TORBAY) (2) This entry appears to me as belonging to an American seaman, probably taken from a vessel captured by the British. (3) I recommend you attempt to obtain a photo-copy of the original document before you make any conclusions Bob Brooks, retired on the downeast coast of Maine

Bob! Thank you so much for the info and your ideas on it!!! Extremely enlightening! Deb --- Bob Brooks <[email protected]> wrote: > Debbie -- > > > List of Prisoners > > William SAYLE > > (Protection, 61 years of age does not > > mean to be exchanged.) > > > > Letter from Stephen Moore and John Barnwell to > General > > N. Greene > > (From North Carolina State Records) > > PRISON SHIP FORBAY, CHARLES TOWN HARBOUR, > > 18th Mary, 1781 > > I find your query of interest and am answering > somewhat reluctantly in fear > that I may give you a false lead. as I will be > GUESSING in a few places. > > FACT: There was only one Royal Navy ship in > American waters carried on the > naval establishment (i.e., subject to all the > official administrative > requirements as a war ship) officially desigbated as > a Prison Ship. This > was HMS JERSEY, a former 4th rate, 60-gun, ship of > the line built in 1736 > and converted into a Hospital Ship in 1771, which on > 26 Dec 1780 was > officially redesignated a Prison Ship. HMS JERSEY > arrived at New York in > 1776 and was abandoned there in Nov 1783. > > FACT: Virtually all the Royal Navy ships carried > American prisoners at > verious times. Most were taken from ships captured > at sea. > > FACT: Naval POWs and military POWs were not > interchangeable. The British > proposed "mixing" but this was turned down upon > Washington's objection to > the Continental Congress. Therefore, Naval POWs > were only exchanged for > other naval POWs and solidiers for soldiers, etc. > The British Commissary > General of Prisoners was Joshua Loring, a vile > Loyalist who stole supplies > from the POWs and sold them but is best known for > his wife becoming the > mistress of General Sir William owe. The British > Commisary General for > Naval Prisoners was David Sproat, another Loyalist. > To the best of my > knowledge, after the British returned from > Philadelphia to New York, this > office remained in New York The first American > Commisary General of > Prisoners (with Continental Army rank as Colonel) > was Elias Boudinot, > appointed in 1777. He was followed by John Beatty > and then Abraham Skinner. > I have never learned of an American Commissary > General of Naval Prisoners. > GUESS: British Naval POWs were handled by one of > the American Deputy > Commissary Generals of Prisoners (Majors) or > Assistant Deputy Commissary > Generals of prisoners (Captains). GUESS: The > American POWs at Charlestown > were handled by Loyalist subordinates of the New > York office. > > "(Protection, 61 years of age does not mean to be > exchanged.)" > FACT: A "Protection" was a document given merchant > sailors which exempted > them from being impressed into the royal navy. > GUESS: "does not mean to be > exchanged." looks like he was asking to remain > within British control and > was exempting himself from the queue of POWs > awaiting to be exchanged. > FACT: Officers usually were paroled awaiting > exchange but seamen were > incarcerated. > > FACT: I can not identify Stephen Moore and John > Barnwell. > > "PRISON SHIP FORBAY, CHARLES TOWN HARBOUR, 18th > Mary, 1781" > GUESS: "FORBAY" seems a strange name so I suspect > this is should be TORBAY. > FACT: "Torbay" is a port in Devonshire on "Tor Bay" > off the English > Channel. HMS TORBAY was a 3rd-rate, 74-gun, ship of > the line, manned by 600 > men. Built in 1750, in 1781 she was assigned to the > Leeward Islands station > under the command of Captain John Lewis Gidoin. I > have no record of HMS > TORBAY serving in American waters until 1783. > GUESS: HMS TORBAY was too > deep (i.e., drew too much water) to get over the bar > and get into > Charlestown (now Charleston SC) harbour. > > "18th Mary, 1781" > FACT: Vice Admiral Arbuthnot's Line of Battle on 16 > March 1781 DID NOT > include HMS TORBAY. On 14 May 1781 Vice Admiral > Arbuthnot was back at Sandy > Hook. > > COMMENTS: > (1) The possibility exists that a transport ship > named FORBAY (or TORBAY) > had been pressed into service as a floating prison. > This was a common > practice by both sides. I have a list of several > hundred of the transport > ships employed by the British but do not find a > transport named FORBAY (or > TORBAY) > > (2) This entry appears to me as belonging to an > American seaman, probably > taken from a vessel captured by the British. > > (3) I recommend you attempt to obtain a > photo-copy of the original > document before you make any conclusions > > Bob Brooks, retired on the downeast coast of Maine > > > > > ==== AMERICAN-REVOLUTION Mailing List ==== > We have archives! Search for your > AMERICAN-REVOLUTION information here..... > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=AMERICAN-REVOLUTION > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about > your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the > last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com