Ann writes: > I believe our Founders were in the > main embued with not only a classical education but were schooled too in > contemporary philosophical thought. The tiny minority were. The bulk of the folk who fought the wars to take the land, tilled the soil, made the hardware and furnishings of everyday life, were schooled in religious thought of specific types, but little else not associated with a trade until well into the 19th century. The slaves who did so much of the practical work were by law not allowed to have book-education. Some "contemporary philosophical thought" justified the practices of enslavement and colonialism. The 19th- and 20th-century inheritors of the State of the classically-trained Founders thought it wise to eradicate cultures, tear apart social fabric by use of schooling as a political weapon, using prevailing "philosophical thought" as rationale: Manifest Destiny, White Man's Burden, and so forth. Judy

Late, but better late than never. I agree wholeheartedly with this email, and have sometimes thought that one reason for the shallowness of our culture is the lack of classics in our education. I'm not quite sure why I think this...but I do. There should be some standard thought, including literary thought, to which we can all refer, and which we can all hold in common. It should have proven its virtue as it came down through the ages. In fact, it's there, but we aren't using it. What we actually have today, instead, is the zany entertainment world that populates our computer screens. Anyway, not to be entirely off-topic, I believe our Founders were in the main embued with not only a classical education but were schooled too in contemporary philosophical thought. Anne In a message dated 11/6/2006 9:02:46 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, qvarizona@yahoo.com writes: One point I'd like to address: While it's true there were illiterate people among the early settlers, many were better educated than most people today; it was not uncommon for men to have books in Latin and Greek in their estate inventories when they died. My own area of research is somewhat limited to the Valley of Virginia, which had a large number of Scotch-Irish settlers, who were almost fanatical about education. In the 1750s in Augusta Co. VA. --which qualified as "frontier"-- the militia officers were either appointed by the county commissioners or elected by the men of their district. Before the Revolution and after, the majority of officers in both the militia and the "Continentals" were able to read and write, as is evidenced by the records they kept. Joanne

There are additonal reasons that could explain a change of rank within a short time period. After holding the rank in the VA militia of Lt. Col. (which he was given by the Botetourt Co. VA county commissioners after the battle at Guilford Courthouse), Thomas Rowland, resigned his rank due to a feud with Lt. Horse Harry Lee, who looked down on the militia. A month or so later, Thomas was named a Major; then, following a courtmartial where his reputation was restored, he was again named as a Lt. Col. All this within 18 months. There are also many cases where the members of a company elected their own officers on a TEMPORARY basis. You are right to wait for more information before jumping to conclusions. Joanne Frostfreedet@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 11/21/2006 3:03:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, Hugh writes: > It is inconsistent to show the same man as a Captain at VF in 1778 and as a Lieut. at Stony Point in 1779. Thus there must be two Thomas BOUDEs< I did not follow what Regiment Lt. Thomas was in at Stony Point. If he was in the same one as Capt. Boude was, if you follow the Muster Rolls they should tell the story. There was a relative-rank issue betwen the Militia, State Troops and Continentals, so that if a Militia Captain joined the Continentals he would not carry his 'seniority' forward and might have to take a rank reduction (say, Captain to 2d Lieut.). This was a problem for the upper ranks as well, when occasionally a Col. was denied promotion to General, although as Col. he was often doing the same job as Regiment commander. But this doesn't appear to have been a factor in this case. Your conclusion appears sound, awaiting more detailed data from the rolls. Good hunting, Judy List Mom for the AMERICAN-REVOLUTION mailing list: Diana Boothe philsbarbie1@arkansasfamilies.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------ We have archives! Search for your AMERICAN-REVOLUTION information here..... http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=AMERICAN-REVOLUTION ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out other genealogy resources on the net at John Fuller's most helpful site http://www.rootsweb.com/~jfuller/gen_mail.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AMERICAN-REVOLUTION-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

In a message dated 11/21/2006 3:03:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, Hugh writes: > It is inconsistent to show the same man as a Captain at VF in 1778 and as a Lieut. at Stony Point in 1779. Thus there must be two Thomas BOUDEs< I did not follow what Regiment Lt. Thomas was in at Stony Point. If he was in the same one as Capt. Boude was, if you follow the Muster Rolls they should tell the story. There was a relative-rank issue betwen the Militia, State Troops and Continentals, so that if a Militia Captain joined the Continentals he would not carry his 'seniority' forward and might have to take a rank reduction (say, Captain to 2d Lieut.). This was a problem for the upper ranks as well, when occasionally a Col. was denied promotion to General, although as Col. he was often doing the same job as Regiment commander. But this doesn't appear to have been a factor in this case. Your conclusion appears sound, awaiting more detailed data from the rolls. Good hunting, Judy

An Historical Account OF THE Settlements of Scotch Highlanders in America PRIOR TO THE PEACE OF 1783 TOGETHER WITH NOTICES OF Highland Regiments AND Biographical Sketches BY J. P. MACLEAN, PH. D. This 466 page (8 page index) book written in 1900 tells of the Scotch Highland regiment ... The Black Watch. It gives the military history as well as the men who fought in the colonies and those who stayed in New York and Cape Fear as opposed to returning to Britian. If you cannot find this book in your local library or cannot borrow a copy from a lending library, you may want to contact : dmkheritage.austin.rr.com They have it on a CD at dmkheritage.com Index: a la Del, Abercrombie, Abercromby, Alexander, Allan, Allen, Alline, Amherst, Anderson, Andre, Archibald, Arnold, Arnott, Ashe, Augustine, Austin, Bailies, Baillie, Bain, Baine, Baird, Baker, Balfour, Balneaves, Balnevis, Bancroft, Barclay, Barre, Barrington, Barron, Barry, Bartholomew, Bartram, Baxter, Bayard, Baylie, Bayne, Beatty, Belton, Bennet, Bennington, Bethune, Betton, Bisset, Blackstock, Blackwood, Blaikie, Blair, Blaning, Bloodgood, Boone, Boquet, Borland, Boscawen, Boswell, Boyce, Boyd, Boynton, Braddock, Bradstreet, Brant, Breymann, Broadway, Brooks, Brown, Browne, Bruce, Bryan, Bryant, Buchanan, Buckam, Buea, Buie, Bullock, Burges, Burgoyne, Burke, Burnet, Burns, Burrington, Burt, Burton, Butler, Buy, Byrne, Cairns, Caldwell, Cambell, Camel, Cameron, Campbel, Campbell, Campbells, Campley, Cargill, Cargyle, Carleton, Carlton, Caswell, Chambers, Chaplain, Chappell, Chatham, Chisholm, Chisolm, Chissem, Chissim, Christie, Christy, Church, Clark, Clarke Clarks, Claus, Clayton, Clerk, Clinton, Cochran, Cock, Cockburn, Cockburne, Coffin, Colhoun, Collier, Colquhon, Colquhoun, Connolly, Conway, Cornwallis, Cornwell, Cosby, Cox, Craig, Craighead, Crammond, Crawford, Crockett, Cromwell, Crosset, Cruger, Culton, Cuming, Cumming, Cumyng, Cunison, Cunningham, Cuthbert, Cuthberts, Dalgleish, Daling, Dalrymple, Daly, Damburgess, Daniel, Darach, Darne, Darroch, Dart, Davidson, Day, Dayton, De Bos, De Levi, Dellius, Demere, D'Estaing, Dillon, Dinwiddie, Doherty, Donald, Donaldson, Donnell, Doty, Douglas, Douglass, Drakes, Drummond, Ducour, Duff, Duffe, Dunbar, Dunbars, Duncan, Duncanson, Dundas, Dundee, Dunlap, Dunmore, Earl, Eastchurch, Eddington, Edwards, Effingham, Elbert, Ellice, Erskine, Everett, Falconer, Fanning, Faris, Farquharson, Farrand, Fergursone, Fergus, Ferguson, Ferquhar, Finlayson, Finley, Firtelier, Fitzgerald, Fitzherbert, Flanders, Fletcher, Fleury, Flint, Fonda, Forbes, Fortrose, Franklin, Fraser, Frazer, Frazier, French, Furguson, Gage, Gainey, Gallant, Game, Gardenier, Gascoigne, Gates, Ger'd, Germain, Getman, Gibson, Gilbert, Gilchrist, Gillaspie, Gilles, Gillis, Gilmer, Glen, Goose, Gordon, Gordone, Gordoun, Gordoune, Graeme, Graham, Grahame, Grant, Gray, Green, Greene, Greer, Gregor, Gregorie, Gregorson, Gregory, Grier, Grierson, Griffiths, Gummesell, Gwinnett, Habersham, Haggart, Haldane, Halliday, Hamilton, Hammel, Hardenburgh, Harding, Hardy, Harris, Harrison, Hassock, Haviland, Hawkins, Hay, Hays, Heath, Hector, Heil, Henderson, Henry, Hepburn, Herring, Hewes, Hill, Holland, Holmes, Home, Hook, Hooper, Horry, Horton, Houston, Howard, Howe, Hudson, Humble, Hunter, Hutchison, Ingram, Innes, Irvines, Izard, James, Jefferson, Jennings, Johnson, Johnsons, Johnston, Johnstone, Johnstoun, Johnstoune, Jones, Keltie, Kennedy, Kennon, Kerr, Kilmore, Kinloch, Knowles, Knowlton, Knox, Knyphausen, La Fayette, Lafayette, Laforey, Laird, Lamon, Lamont, Langan, Lansingh, Laurens, Lawrence, Lawrie, Laws, Le Loup, Leake, Lecky, Lee, Leek, Leggate, Leith, Lepscomb, Leslie, Lewis, Ligett, Lillington, Lincoln, Lindsey, Littleton, Livingston, Logan, Lossing, Lovell, Lovett, Lynvilge, Lyon, MacDonald, Mac Kenzie, Macarthur, Macbrians, MacCaskill, Macdonald, MacDonalds, Macdonell, MacDonells, Macfarlane, Macgregor, Machemie, MacIntosh, Mackaferson, Mackay, MacKays, Mackenzie, MacKinnon, Mackintosh, MacLachlan, Maclachlane, Maclaine, MacLean, MacLeans, MacLeod, MacLeods, MacMahon, Macmaster, Macneil, MacNish, Macpherson, Macquarrie, Macqueen, MacRae, Macvicar, Magalanes, Magaw, Maguire, Mahon, Main, Maitland, Majoribank, Majoribanks, Makemie, Malcolm, Mann, Manning, Mar, Marion, Marquess, Marquesse, Marsden, Marshall, Martileer, Martin, Matheson, Mathews, Maurer, Maxwell, Mc Arthur, McAden, McAlister, McAllister, McAlpine, McAnthony, McArthur, McBain, McBane, McBraine, McBride, McCabe, McCannon, McCarter, McCarthy, McCauley, McClean, McCleland, McClelland, McCloud, McCollister, McConnell, McCore, McCoulskey, McCoulsky, McCoy, McCracken, McCraine, McCrea, McCulloch, McCullock, McCullom, McCullough, McDaniel, McDonald, McDonell, McDonnel, McDougal, McDougald, McDougall, McDowell, McDowells, McDuffie, McDugal, McDugald, McEachern, McEloroy, McElroys, McEven, McEwen, McFadden, McFarland, McFarlane, McFarther, McFerson, McGill, McGlenny, McGowan, McGowne, McGregor, McGuilvery, McGuire, McIlfender, McIntire, McIntosh, McIntyre, McIver, McKallor, McKay, McKean, McKeithen, McKenna, McKenzie, McKerwan, McKey, McKinnen, McKinnon, McKinzie, McKlarty, McKown, McLachlan, McLachlen, McLagan, McLason, McLean, McLellan, McLelland, McLeod, McMartin, McMonts, McMullan, McMullin, McNab, McNachten, McNatt, McNaughton, McNeal, McNeice, McNeil, McNeile, McNeill, McNeils, McNicol, McNiel, McNish, McPharlane, McPherson, McQuarrie, McQuary, McRaw, McRay, McRei, McRitchie, McTavish, McVarick, McVicar, Meinzies, Menees, Mens, Menzies, Mercer, Meriot, Middleton, Mileross, Miller, Mills, Milross, Mitchells, Monckton, Moncrieff, Monies, Monro, Monroe, Montague, Montcalm, Montgomery, Moore, Mor, Moray, Mordoff, More, Morgan, Morrison, Motte, Munnis, Munro, Munroe, Murchison, Murdoch, Murphy, Murray, Nairn, Nairne, Neal, Needham, Neill, Nelson, Nevin, Newte, Nicholson, Nicol, Norman, Nutt, O'Briens, O'Cahan, O'Donnels, Offery, Ogilvie, Ogilvy, Oglethorpe, O'Hara, O'Lachlans, O'Neills, Orr, Owen, Pagan, Pain, Palmer, Parker, Paterson, Patten, Patterson, Paxton, Peebles, Penn, Pennant, Pennicuik, Percy, Perkins, Phillips, Philp, Pickens, Pincarton, Pinkerton, Pitcairn, Pitt, Porterfield, Portevint, Postell, Prentiss, Prescott, Prevost, Prideaux, Pringle, Putnam, Raleighs, Ramsay, Ranier, Rattray, Rawdon, Ray, Reed, Reid, Rhine, Richardson, Riedesel, Roberts, Robertson, Robertsone, Robinsoune, Rogers, Rose, Ross, Rowan, Rutherford, Rutledge, Rycaut, Sammons, Sandsy, Sandy, Savage, Scarsborough, Schuyler, Scot, Scott, Selim, Seton, Sevier, Shaw, Shelby, Shell, Shiels, Shute, Sim, Simmonds, Sims, Sinclair, Singleton, Skelly, Skene, Skibley, Slocum, Small, Smalwood, Smith, Snipes, Sothel, Southerland, Spalding, Sparks, Spears, Speir, Spencer, St. Clair, Stark, Stephens, Steuart, Stevens, Stewart, Stirling, Stratton, Stuart, Stuarts, Stull, Sullivan, Sumter, Sutherland, Tarleton, Tarlin, Tause, Tawse, Taylor, Thompson, Threadcroft, Tolme, Tolmie, Torquano, Torrey, Torry, Townsend, Tryon, Turnbull, Tweeddale, Ugin, Urchad, Urghad, Urquhart, Valentine, Vernon, Wade, Walker, Washington, Watson, Waugh, Wayne, Webb, Webster, Wedderburn, Weedon, Weems, Wesent, Wesley, White, Whitmore, Widrow, Wier, Willett, Williams, Wilson, Withers, Witherspoon, Wolfe, Wood, Woodford, Wright, Yates, York, Young,

In a message dated 9/25/2006 7:25:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Desmond@DesSpencer.wanadoo.co.uk writes: Boude, Thomas (Pa). 2d Lieutenant 4th Pennsylvania Battalion, 5th January, 1776; 1st Lieutenant 5th Pennsylvania, 1st January, 1777; Captain, 23d September, 1777; transferred to 2d Pennsylvania, 1st January, 1783; Brevet Major, 30th September, 1783; served to 3d November, 1783. (Died 24th October, 1822.) Heitman, above in blue, is citing Thomas Boude of Stony Point (1779), then a Lieut. who was given a 1777 date of rank as a Captain with his promotion occuring after the Stony Point action in 1779. See below-- Boude, Thomas, from first lieutenant, for gallantry at Stony Point, ranking from September 23,1777; transferred to Second Penn'a, January 1, 1783. Captain Thomas Boude of VF is not accounted for on the muster rolls of the 5th PA, but is shown as the Company Commander on the Muster Roll Data Sheet of Lieut Thomas BOUDE of the 5th PA (ID # PA00347) and further shown on the Regimental officer staffing roster of the 5th PA. Thomas BOUDE signed the Oath of Allegiance as Captain, 5th PA in the spring of 1778 more than a year before the Storming of Stony Point in July 1779. It is inconsistent to show the same man as a Captain at VF in 1778 and as a Lieut. at Stony Point in 1779. Thus there must be two Thomas BOUDEs Is there some additional information that would claify this issue? Best regards, Hugh

http://www.collectionscanada.ca/military/index-e.html

Irish Prominent in the Colonies. Many early Irish settlers occupied the highest and most important offices in State and National affairs. Many of the earliest judges were Irish aand many excelled in medicine, science and literature, they assisted largely in laying the foundation for the future development of the United States Nine of the signers of the Declaration of Independence were Irish Born Irishmen or of Irish descent. Source"Ireland's Important anad Heroric Part in America's Independence and Development" by Rev. Frank L. Reynolds Ann Keegan ----- Original Message ----- From: "qvarizona" <qvarizona@yahoo.com> To: <american-revolution@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 2:10 PM Subject: Re: [AMERICAN-REVOLUTION] Captain--militia, civilian,tax assessment districts and literacy > The general image of an illiterate population in Colonial VA does not > necessarily reflect those of Scotch-Irish descendants who settled in > pre-Revolutionary Augusta/Botetourt/Rockbridge Co. Remember, one of the > main points Knox and his followers espoused in Scotland was the importance > of literacy for everyone. > > Angela Ruley, "The Scotch-Irish were strong believers in education, as > they felt people should read God's word and interpret it themselves. > Teachers were sought out, quite often in the form of indentured servants. > One room schools began to spring up on many plantations. Eventually, > [1749] Augusta Academy was founded...[near Lexington, VA.] > > James G. Leyburn, The Scotch-Irish, "Whereever the Scotch-Irish went, > schools were almost certain to follow churches among the first > institutions to be formed. . .. Knox's desire to have schools in every > prarish for the general education of the people was wholeheartedly > accepted as an ideal that must be achieved.... (even for the lowborn) it > was still necessary to read the Bible and the catechisms... This tradition > was engrained in the Ulstermen who came to America and it was expected > that schools would be established in every community that could possible > support them The biggest difficulty was the shortage of ministers. A > practical substitute was devised in many communities where an indentured > servant could be found for teaching; and the entire neighborhood > contributing to his support. Lacking any kind of teachers, mothers taught > their own and neighbor children in their homes. Zeal for education was > such that despite difficulties, it could be expected of a > Scotch-Irish community that, if it had a minister, it also had a school > for its children." > > This attitude about education probably explains why most (49) members of > one company of Major Rowland's Botetourt Militia signed their own names > to a 1781 petition to the governor. One man was a sergeant, but the > others all privates. Major Rowland, by the way, was born in > Augusta/Botetourt Co. in 1741 and was homeschooled by his mother. His > family was unable to send him to Augusta Academy. > > Joanne > > Frostfreedet@aol.com wrote: > Joanne wrote, > >>>Before the Revolution and after, the majority of officers in both the > militia and the "Continentals" were able to read and write, as is > evidenced by the > records they kept.<< > > Literacy was probably a factor in the officers' having been chosen. In the > original muster and payrolls I've seen, as many Lieutenants and Ensigns > signed > the documents (where signed at all) as Captains. The upper ranks were > generally from wealthier families and had access to education, which > during the > Revolutionary War and before was not paid for by tax dollars and not > available to > all except to the extent a relative or generous neighbor was able and > willing > to supply it. I haven't seen indenture agreements until after the Rev. War > period that include that the child was to be taught to read, write and to > do > arithmetic "to the rule of three." > > While commissioned officers were of course in the minority, nonetheless > I've > found relatives whose ability to write surprised me. Yet these, too, are > in > the minority in the 18th century and earlier. > > Good hunting, > Judy > List Mom for the AMERICAN-REVOLUTION mailing list: > Diana Boothe philsbarbie1@arkansasfamilies.net > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > We have archives! Search for your AMERICAN-REVOLUTION information > here..... > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=AMERICAN-REVOLUTION > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check out other genealogy resources on the net at John Fuller's most > helpful site http://www.rootsweb.com/~jfuller/gen_mail.html > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AMERICAN-REVOLUTION-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > --------------------------------- > Sponsored Link > > For just $24.99/mo., Vonage offers unlimited local and long- distance > calling. Sign up now. > List Mom for the AMERICAN-REVOLUTION mailing list: > Diana Boothe philsbarbie1@arkansasfamilies.net > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > We have archives! Search for your AMERICAN-REVOLUTION information > here..... > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=AMERICAN-REVOLUTION > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check out other genealogy resources on the net at John Fuller's most > helpful site http://www.rootsweb.com/~jfuller/gen_mail.html > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > AMERICAN-REVOLUTION-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Good afternoon List members I am new and know not too much about the branches of the service. I have a Col. John Drake from Greenville, Green Twp, Sussex Co., NJ b. 1773, died 12 April 1841 (intestate) so.... I am trying to find proof of his title and family. His obituary was in the Sussex Register and it refered to him as Col. John Drake. However I am a bit confsed as to how he earned the title. He would have been too young for the Revolutionary War. I have looked on Ancestry for anything about the War of 1812. Does anyone have any other ideas where I could look for his service record, or perhaps have heard of this man. Thank you for any help or suggestions, Ann Brown in Florida -- Ann Brown " Cookie"

Joanne wrote, >>Before the Revolution and after, the majority of officers in both the militia and the "Continentals" were able to read and write, as is evidenced by the records they kept.<< Literacy was probably a factor in the officers' having been chosen. In the original muster and payrolls I've seen, as many Lieutenants and Ensigns signed the documents (where signed at all) as Captains. The upper ranks were generally from wealthier families and had access to education, which during the Revolutionary War and before was not paid for by tax dollars and not available to all except to the extent a relative or generous neighbor was able and willing to supply it. I haven't seen indenture agreements until after the Rev. War period that include that the child was to be taught to read, write and to do arithmetic "to the rule of three." While commissioned officers were of course in the minority, nonetheless I've found relatives whose ability to write surprised me. Yet these, too, are in the minority in the 18th century and earlier. Good hunting, Judy

The general image of an illiterate population in Colonial VA does not necessarily reflect those of Scotch-Irish descendants who settled in pre-Revolutionary Augusta/Botetourt/Rockbridge Co. Remember, one of the main points Knox and his followers espoused in Scotland was the importance of literacy for everyone. Angela Ruley, "The Scotch-Irish were strong believers in education, as they felt people should read God’s word and interpret it themselves. Teachers were sought out, quite often in the form of indentured servants. One room schools began to spring up on many plantations. Eventually, [1749] Augusta Academy was founded...[near Lexington, VA.] James G. Leyburn, The Scotch-Irish, "Whereever the Scotch-Irish went, schools were almost certain to follow churches among the first institutions to be formed. . .. Knox's desire to have schools in every prarish for the general education of the people was wholeheartedly accepted as an ideal that must be achieved.... (even for the lowborn) it was still necessary to read the Bible and the catechisms... This tradition was engrained in the Ulstermen who came to America and it was expected that schools would be established in every community that could possible support them The biggest difficulty was the shortage of ministers. A practical substitute was devised in many communities where an indentured servant could be found for teaching; and the entire neighborhood contributing to his support. Lacking any kind of teachers, mothers taught their own and neighbor children in their homes. Zeal for education was such that despite difficulties, it could be expected of a Scotch-Irish community that, if it had a minister, it also had a school for its children." This attitude about education probably explains why most (49) members of one company of Major Rowland's Botetourt Militia signed their own names to a 1781 petition to the governor. One man was a sergeant, but the others all privates. Major Rowland, by the way, was born in Augusta/Botetourt Co. in 1741 and was homeschooled by his mother. His family was unable to send him to Augusta Academy. Joanne Frostfreedet@aol.com wrote: Joanne wrote, >>Before the Revolution and after, the majority of officers in both the militia and the "Continentals" were able to read and write, as is evidenced by the records they kept.<< Literacy was probably a factor in the officers' having been chosen. In the original muster and payrolls I've seen, as many Lieutenants and Ensigns signed the documents (where signed at all) as Captains. The upper ranks were generally from wealthier families and had access to education, which during the Revolutionary War and before was not paid for by tax dollars and not available to all except to the extent a relative or generous neighbor was able and willing to supply it. I haven't seen indenture agreements until after the Rev. War period that include that the child was to be taught to read, write and to do arithmetic "to the rule of three." While commissioned officers were of course in the minority, nonetheless I've found relatives whose ability to write surprised me. Yet these, too, are in the minority in the 18th century and earlier. Good hunting, Judy List Mom for the AMERICAN-REVOLUTION mailing list: Diana Boothe philsbarbie1@arkansasfamilies.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------ We have archives! Search for your AMERICAN-REVOLUTION information here..... http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=AMERICAN-REVOLUTION ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out other genealogy resources on the net at John Fuller's most helpful site http://www.rootsweb.com/~jfuller/gen_mail.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AMERICAN-REVOLUTION-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --------------------------------- Sponsored Link For just $24.99/mo., Vonage offers unlimited local and long- distance calling. Sign up now.

One point I'd like to address: While it's true there were illiterate people among the early settlers, many were better educated than most people today; it was not uncommon for men to have books in Latin and Greek in their estate inventories when they died. My own area of research is somewhat limited to the Valley of Virginia, which had a large number of Scotch-Irish settlers, who were almost fanatical about education. In the 1750s in Augusta Co. VA. --which qualified as "frontier"-- the militia officers were either appointed by the county commissioners or elected by the men of their district. Before the Revolution and after, the majority of officers in both the militia and the "Continentals" were able to read and write, as is evidenced by the records they kept. Joanne Doris Christian <dmkchristian@austin.rr.com> wrote: In my research and readings, I have found that the title of Capt. usually referred to the head of the militia for that area. This was a LONG TIME before the Rev. War. On the frontiers of Va, Pa, and the Carolinas, the settlers had to be protected from Indians and others...... And, they had to do it themselves. The settlers would band together, they usually had a "fort" they could run to for protection.... this was usually one of the first settlers fortified houses. The militia consisted of any able bodied man or boy who could help either at the fort or to go after the Indians who would attack the settlers or the robbers and horse thieves who would come through the area. The Capt. of the militia (sometimes there were Colonels who actually had military experience) was the one who would actually deal with the problem; whether it was going after the Indians or hanging the horse thief. (Remember that in those days, an actual law enforcement officer could be two to five days ride away.) Another thing I have found is that the "Capt. of the militia" was sometimes handed down from father to son. (I assume because the fort was some times their home??) As time went on the " Capt." was called on for other things, including tax rolls. You have to remember that these people were practical. People were called on to do the things they could do.... (During time of war....if you could read and write, had a horse and a gun.....you were an officer in the calvary. If you did not have a horse but cold read and write you were and officer in the army. If you could not read and write, had no horse, you were a foot soldier.) If you needed a tax roll done, you found someone who could read and write, and had time. (Prior to the Rev. tax rolls and any other information that needed collecting was done by the Church of England.) Don't know if this helps or not but basically, there was no written standard for any information collecting prior to or for many years after the Rev. The exception: information collected by the Church of England is probably the most "standard" collection you will find. And by our standards, they are not that great. And, military or militia districts were not set up after the Rev. they existed long, long before that! My documentation for the above comes from reading and proof reading all the books on the website below. Doris On Nov 2, 2006, at 6:41 AM, Frostfreedet@aol.com wrote: > Cindy in WI addressed an issue that there has been a lot of > confusion about: > >>> During the war of the revolution, neighborhoods were divided up >>> for the > purposes of collecting taxes in the state of Virginia and were > assigned to one > local who was responsible for collecting information such as > personal property > taxables. The person responsible for their 'neighborhood districts' > were often > called "Captain" all though, according to a researcher at the > Library of VA, > they were not necessarily 'captains' in the sense that we think of > a captain > today. Sometimes these districts which were originally intended > for the purpose > of collecting taxes were also used as designated militia districts > but not > necessarily.<< > > Cindy, can you give us documentation for this? > The only VA Tithables assessment rolls that survive for the Rev. > War period > that I know of are the ones for 1782. > > The roll for Hampshire Co. VA designates the persons responsible > for each tax > assessment district as Justices of the Peace: > > > Do others have specific examples that can shed light? > > Thank you Cindy, for bringing this up. > > Judy > List Mom for the AMERICAN-REVOLUTION mailing list: > Diana Boothe philsbarbie1@arkansasfamilies.net > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > We have archives! Search for your AMERICAN-REVOLUTION > information here..... > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl? > list=AMERICAN-REVOLUTION > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > Check out other genealogy resources on the net at John Fuller's > most helpful site http://www.rootsweb.com/~jfuller/gen_mail.html > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AMERICAN- > REVOLUTION-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message **************************** Visit: http://www.dmkheritage.com To check on the latest County Histories and Parish Records on CDs Indexed and searchable List Mom for the AMERICAN-REVOLUTION mailing list: Diana Boothe philsbarbie1@arkansasfamilies.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------ We have archives! 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Nettie Schreiner-Yantis quotes the 1782 tax law in her booklet for _The 1787 Census of Virginia, Monongalia County_, from _Hening's Statutes_, Vol. 11 p. 113: ". . . every county shall divide the same into convenient precincts, and . . . appoint one of the justices for each precinct [and he was to] give public notice of his being so appointed, and at what times and places he intends to receive the lists . . ." Ms. Yantis further notes that the tax districts were usually the same as militia districts, and that it would make sense to collect the lists on muster days. While these Tithables lists often seem to indicate that the persons responsible for each district were literally visiting households, there was a long-standing custom that the tithable persons themselves submit lists of the Tithables and taxable chattels to the officials. This would be fine if everyone could write and had paper and pen and ink. It is no stretch to imagine folks lined up before the official, telling him who was of tithable age and how many of what type of taxable chattel accrued to the household. Good hunting, Judy

In my research and readings, I have found that the title of Capt. usually referred to the head of the militia for that area. This was a LONG TIME before the Rev. War. On the frontiers of Va, Pa, and the Carolinas, the settlers had to be protected from Indians and others...... And, they had to do it themselves. The settlers would band together, they usually had a "fort" they could run to for protection.... this was usually one of the first settlers fortified houses. The militia consisted of any able bodied man or boy who could help either at the fort or to go after the Indians who would attack the settlers or the robbers and horse thieves who would come through the area. The Capt. of the militia (sometimes there were Colonels who actually had military experience) was the one who would actually deal with the problem; whether it was going after the Indians or hanging the horse thief. (Remember that in those days, an actual law enforcement officer could be two to five days ride away.) Another thing I have found is that the "Capt. of the militia" was sometimes handed down from father to son. (I assume because the fort was some times their home??) As time went on the " Capt." was called on for other things, including tax rolls. You have to remember that these people were practical. People were called on to do the things they could do.... (During time of war....if you could read and write, had a horse and a gun.....you were an officer in the calvary. If you did not have a horse but cold read and write you were and officer in the army. If you could not read and write, had no horse, you were a foot soldier.) If you needed a tax roll done, you found someone who could read and write, and had time. (Prior to the Rev. tax rolls and any other information that needed collecting was done by the Church of England.) Don't know if this helps or not but basically, there was no written standard for any information collecting prior to or for many years after the Rev. The exception: information collected by the Church of England is probably the most "standard" collection you will find. And by our standards, they are not that great. And, military or militia districts were not set up after the Rev. they existed long, long before that! My documentation for the above comes from reading and proof reading all the books on the website below. Doris On Nov 2, 2006, at 6:41 AM, Frostfreedet@aol.com wrote: > Cindy in WI addressed an issue that there has been a lot of > confusion about: > >>> During the war of the revolution, neighborhoods were divided up >>> for the > purposes of collecting taxes in the state of Virginia and were > assigned to one > local who was responsible for collecting information such as > personal property > taxables. The person responsible for their 'neighborhood districts' > were often > called "Captain" all though, according to a researcher at the > Library of VA, > they were not necessarily 'captains' in the sense that we think of > a captain > today. Sometimes these districts which were originally intended > for the purpose > of collecting taxes were also used as designated militia districts > but not > necessarily.<< > > Cindy, can you give us documentation for this? > The only VA Tithables assessment rolls that survive for the Rev. > War period > that I know of are the ones for 1782. > > The roll for Hampshire Co. VA designates the persons responsible > for each tax > assessment district as Justices of the Peace: > <http://www.rootsweb.com/~wvminera/1782.htm> > > Do others have specific examples that can shed light? > > Thank you Cindy, for bringing this up. > > Judy > List Mom for the AMERICAN-REVOLUTION mailing list: > Diana Boothe philsbarbie1@arkansasfamilies.net > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > We have archives! Search for your AMERICAN-REVOLUTION > information here..... > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl? > list=AMERICAN-REVOLUTION > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > Check out other genealogy resources on the net at John Fuller's > most helpful site http://www.rootsweb.com/~jfuller/gen_mail.html > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AMERICAN- > REVOLUTION-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message **************************** Visit: http://www.dmkheritage.com To check on the latest County Histories and Parish Records on CDs Indexed and searchable

After consulting Chalkley's abstracts of Augusta County VA records for the war years I'd say that the person taking tithables was a justice in every case, although many of the justices also served as captains of militia. Meanwhile the tax districts conformed to regular militia districts. For example: "Capt. Alexr. Robertson, in his own, Capt. Givens's, and Capt. Wm. Anderson's Companies..." (Chalkley, I, 199). On the thinly settled western frontier a geographical description was substituted: "John Wilson to take tithables in Tyger's Valley, Buchon [the Tygart and the Buckhannon River are meant] and the West Fork of Monongahela." David Houchin Clarksburg-Harrison Public Library --- Frostfreedet@aol.com wrote: > Cindy in WI addressed an issue that there has been a > lot of confusion about: > > >>During the war of the revolution, neighborhoods > were divided up for the > purposes of collecting taxes in the state of > Virginia and were assigned to one > local who was responsible for collecting information > such as personal property > taxables. The person responsible for their > 'neighborhood districts' were often > called "Captain" all though, according to a > researcher at the Library of VA, > they were not necessarily 'captains' in the sense > that we think of a captain > today. Sometimes these districts which were > originally intended for the purpose > of collecting taxes were also used as designated > militia districts but not > necessarily.<< > > Cindy, can you give us documentation for this? > The only VA Tithables assessment rolls that survive > for the Rev. War period > that I know of are the ones for 1782. > > The roll for Hampshire Co. VA designates the persons > responsible for each tax > assessment district as Justices of the Peace: > <http://www.rootsweb.com/~wvminera/1782.htm> > > Do others have specific examples that can shed > light? > > Thank you Cindy, for bringing this up. > > Judy > List Mom for the AMERICAN-REVOLUTION mailing list: > Diana Boothe philsbarbie1@arkansasfamilies.net > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > We have archives! Search for your > AMERICAN-REVOLUTION information here..... > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=AMERICAN-REVOLUTION > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check out other genealogy resources on the net > at John Fuller's most helpful site > http://www.rootsweb.com/~jfuller/gen_mail.html > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > to AMERICAN-REVOLUTION-request@rootsweb.com with the > word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject > and the body of the message > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates (http://voice.yahoo.com)

Hello all; My brick wall is for my 6th gr-grandfather who fought in the American Revolution, Zenas (os/us) Ross born possibly in 1745 in or around Union, Tolland Co., Connecticut. He married one Rachel Wright-Holcombe, her parents were Simeon and Sarah Wright. Her first husband was John Holcombe Sr. who was killed at the beginning of the Revolution. I have not been able to find out the proper date of birth, location, any other siblings or his parents names. I am trying to trace my clan back to Scotland. Zenas was a patriot and is listed in the "Rolls of Vermont Soldiers In The Revolutionary War 1775 - 1783 Prepared And Published Under The Direction Of Major General Martha T. Rainville, The Adjutant General, Vermont, Camp Johnson, Colchester, Vermont. (1998) pay rolls. At some time he switched sides and ended up being a spy for the British and at the conclusion of the war he and his family migrated to Canada and being a Loyalist received several land grants from the Crown. Any help of information would be greatly appreciated. Chuck

Cindy in WI addressed an issue that there has been a lot of confusion about: >>During the war of the revolution, neighborhoods were divided up for the purposes of collecting taxes in the state of Virginia and were assigned to one local who was responsible for collecting information such as personal property taxables. The person responsible for their 'neighborhood districts' were often called "Captain" all though, according to a researcher at the Library of VA, they were not necessarily 'captains' in the sense that we think of a captain today. Sometimes these districts which were originally intended for the purpose of collecting taxes were also used as designated militia districts but not necessarily.<< Cindy, can you give us documentation for this? The only VA Tithables assessment rolls that survive for the Rev. War period that I know of are the ones for 1782. The roll for Hampshire Co. VA designates the persons responsible for each tax assessment district as Justices of the Peace: <http://www.rootsweb.com/~wvminera/1782.htm> Do others have specific examples that can shed light? Thank you Cindy, for bringing this up. Judy

---- Frostfreedet@aol.com wrote: > Kate wonders, > >>How would one get the designation "Captain". Would one have to have served > with the military or were merchant mariners given that title, also?<< > > A ship's captain may have no military rank whatever. He need not be a member > of an organized establishment such as today's Merchant Marine. > > He would only have to be hired for the job by the vessel's owner(s). > > But don't discard the possibility that he might have been Captain of a > militia or other unit at a previous time. Depending on how they were thought of in > the community, some people continued to be called "Captain" long after they'd > been out of any such post. I also have a distant cousin who was called > "Captain" for no discernible reason! He was a millwright, not a mariner, and as far > as I've been able to learn was never made a militia officer. > During the war of the revolution, neighborhoods were divided up for the purposes of collecting taxes in the state of Virginia and were assigned to one local who was responsible for collecting information such as personal property taxables. The person responsible for their 'neighborhood districts' were often called "Captain" all though, according to a researcher at the Library of VA, they were not necessarily 'captains' in the sense that we think of a captain today. Sometimes these districts which were originally intended for the purpose of collecting taxes were also used as designated militia districts but not necessarily. One of the easiest ways to differenciate between a tax and militia district is that a tax list may contain the names of women (widows) while a militia list will never contain the names of women. I have an ancestor who served as a navy captain during the Rev. War; he was born in Rhode Island and came from a long line of seafaring ancestors. After a short 'stint' as a navy captain he found it was far more profitable to be a 'privateer' than a navy captain ... he retained his title of 'captain' dispite the fact that he was no longer in the services of the fledgling navy. Hope this helps - good luck with your research. Cindy in WI

>>Not to belabor this, but Pvt. Harwood was probably buried by his fellow soldiers wherever the encampment was, probably with a wooden marker.  The soldiers themselves were probably not being paid, and unless there were a stonemason among them who had his tools along on the trek they would have been unable to provide a permanent marker.  This was a perilous situation, and it is unlikely that a family member came for the remains.  There may be a memorial marker for him in a home cemetery.<< That's what I think......as to location, I'm only hoping to find some record that says where he was buried, as in possibly a memorial marker or a list of soldiers who may have been buried - for instance - at Hope Lodge (which was the site of the Whitemarsh Encampment, and served as a field hospital for a short while). I do have the NARA rolls narrowed down to several that I want to look at. :-) Dianne

Kate, You mention that Amos was captain of the ship that sank... Being a ship's captain gave him every right to the title, "Captain", and yes, he would have used that title on or off the sea. Joanne ross kate <jkross4@yahoo.com> wrote: Hello May I ask a question to the listers. In the Baltimore, Maryland Tax Records Index 1798 - 1808, a Capt. Amos Fisher is listed. I know from the journal written by my ggg-grandfather Joseph Fisher, Jr., that this Amos Fisher died at sea near the Virginia shore when the ship he was a captain of went down. He lived at Fells-Point, Baltimore, Maryland. He was of a Quaker family, originally from Bucks Co., Pa. He was called in the journal a "trader", meaning merchant mariner, I suppose. How would one get the designation "Captain". Would one have to have served with the military or were merchant mariners given that title, also? Kate Ross ____________________________________________________________________________________ Low, Low, Low Rates! Check out Yahoo! Messenger's cheap PC-to-Phone call rates (http://voice.yahoo.com) List Mom for the AMERICAN-REVOLUTION mailing list: Diana Boothe philsbarbie1@arkansasfamilies.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------ We have archives! Search for your AMERICAN-REVOLUTION information here..... http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=AMERICAN-REVOLUTION ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out other genealogy resources on the net at John Fuller's most helpful site http://www.rootsweb.com/~jfuller/gen_mail.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to AMERICAN-REVOLUTION-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --------------------------------- We have the perfect Group for you. Check out the handy changes to Yahoo! Groups.