Note: any responses directly to Mark should probably be sent to mallen@onramp.net -jr ============================== Wright's Lineage's of the various Continental Army Regiments used to be online but I can't find the link in my address book. If someone could spare a moment I'd appreciate having the current web address and/or the details on the 13th Virginia Regiment. Charles Botkin, private, 13th VA CL. Jan 1777 - Sept 1780 is my connection and I'd be delighted to share what I have on the 13th with anyone interested. Thanks in advance. Mark Allen

Each Yearly Meeting was independent and didn't have to answer to London although they may look to London Yearly Meeting for guidance. The Free Quakers (Fighting) were people who were disowned for various reasons so Free is probably more accurate than Fighting. Timothy Matlack, Sec. to the Continental Congress was disowned prior to the Revolution because he couldn't give up cock fighting. Betsy Ross was disowned for marrying a non-Quaker. Ben Franklin was never a Quaker although he was politically aligned with the Quaker Party in Pa. politics and like to play one when in France because it reinforced their conception about Americans being noble savages. Quaker meetings paid no attention to civil boundaries and when a new meeting was established in an area with no meeting already established it would become affiliated with the original meeting of the founders of the new meeting. About 1900 a number of people graduated from Swarthmore College in Philadelphia and moved to Cailifornia. The new meeting they founded was part of Philadelphia Yearly Meeting until the last of them had died in the 1970s then it was transfered to Pacific Yearly Meeting in California. I'm not familar with New England but in Pa. Quakers would be asked to take an oath which they would affirm rather than swear (they weren't allowed to swear an oath) this wasn't a committment to fight but only an attempt to nulify any oaths they may have taken to the King. In Pa. rather than serve in the militia Quakers could pay a fine or find someone to serve for them (getting someone to serve was generally unacceptable to Quakers though and some refused to pay the fine since both didn't removed them from the ethical issues involved with war). One way of establishing if someone is a Quaker would be to see if they swore an oath or affirmed on legal documents like a deed. Quakers were not allowed to swear. Jim Murray McCombs wrote: > > Lynn Phifer <HTHS57@aol.com>: > > I am just getting to the Vermont loyalist part of my genealogy so this > > comment is more of a footnote than substance. However I would be > interested > > in learning more about similar profiles. I have not found my family on > > > muster lists > > > > My ancestor, Jesse Irish, a Quaker with seven sons came to Danby when > it was <.....snip.....> > > The Quakers were, of course, pacifists and for the > most part simply neutral during the Revolution. > > I found mention of the fate of the Quakers in > New Hampshire today. It wasn't wonderful, but it wasn't > all that bad either. They were mostly tolerated. New > Hampshire isn't Vermont (although the governor of > New Hampshire certainly thought that it was), but if > this is close enough I can go back to the library for > the details I found tomorrow. It's in a book devoted > to New Hampshire and only New Hampshire during the > Revolution. Let me know. > >>> > > Well, I've been misdirected on this issue for a number of years. > Technically yes, Quakers who bear arms are no longer Quakers at that very > instance, though Oliver Hazard Perry of the War of 1812 fame was from a RI > Quaker family (wish I had a nickel for that unknown fact), > > Yet we find the formation of the ARW "Fighting Quakers" etal. represented > by Benjamin Franklin, Betsy Ross, Mifflin, etc. > > Upper Canadian Quakers were to retain affiliation to NY Quaker Yearly > Meetings well into the late 1800's. The Underground Railway was yet to come. > > I have found no scholarly research on these early affiliations. Yet, one > must look at the London England Mother Meeting whom the US Quakers reported > to, controlled by such Lloyd's of London, Barclay's Bank, numerous Quaker > military manufactures, merchant empires ...Quaker run all, to truly > understand the trans-colonial conflict. Some would equate this to the "Star > Chamber", but that was many years off, though Masonic affiliation and cross > battle line associations would continue to play prominence during the ARW. > > Whoaaa to the common farmer citizen soldier! > > For Vermont, Quaker Timothy Rogers was the equivolent Quaker Moses. He set > off for Upper Canada from Danby to settle a new world in Upper Canada. > > It's little wonder that history doesn't record or proclaim the Quaker > achievment with such misinformation as being simply pacifist. > > Cheers > Murray McCombs > > ==== AMERICAN-REVOLUTION Mailing List ==== > > ============================== > Join the RootsWeb WorldConnect Project: > Linking the world, one GEDCOM at a time. > http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com

Hi, This seems live a very muddled account and I'd see if you can straighten it out. I'd check the Quaker records and see if these guys were really Quakers. A Quaker wouldn't have fired on another human being but then he didn't fire and maybe he was just threatening the man going over the fence. A Quaker wouldn't have regarded it as acceptable to shoot a prisoner and unacceptable to fight in a war. Both would have been unacceptable. Why would two guys with Loyalists sympathy take someone looking to join the loyalists as a prisoner ? And then why would they threathen to shoot him when he escaped. The story doesn't make sense and so probably isn't very accurate. I'd check the material from the Committee of Suffering for New England Yearly Meeting and see if there is an account there of what happened. (The Committee of Suffering kept track of injustices inflicted on Quakers). There might also be a newspaper account of what happened or an journal or diary from the time. These old histories are often inaccurate since the source material is often oral histories and sometimes two different accounts get merged into one and then become internally inconsistant. You need to see what primary materials you can find, accounts written at the time the incident ocurred to try to sort it out. Jim HTHS57@aol.com wrote: > > I appreciate the wonderful responses to my query.  Following are the notes I > have about the IRISH family.   I do have some records from the State of > Vermont showing seizures. > > Jesse IRISH came to Danby, Vermont from Dutchess County NY in the spring of > 1767 with his family which included seven sons. They erected a log cabin on > the now, Nelson Colvin farm. On March 14, 1769, one of the sons, Peter b 1743 > was appointed the Collector of Danby, Vermont > > Jesse's son, John Irish, was killed in the following manner. "John Irish and > his tragic fate merit some attention from the historian. He and his brother > William lived in the north part of the town on adjourning farms, and built > their houses but a little distance apart and near the road which ran parallel > to the line fence between their farms. When the news of the surrender of > Ticonderoga reached Tinmouth on the 1st day of July, 1777, a great part of > the inhabitants started southward into Arlington, Shaftsbury and Bennington. > Those who did remain on their farms sought protection, as a rule, from > Burgoyne. Among these were the two brothers Irish. A little later the council > of safety sent a scouting party consisting of Captain Ebenezer Alle, > Lieutenant Issac Clark, and John Train and Phineas Clough, private soldiers, > into Tinmouth to learn what was going on amont the "Protectioners" and to > reconnoitre a Tory camp in East Clarendon. > > These men were personal acquaintenances of the Irish brothers. When the party > arrived in the west part of Tinmouth they were informed that it was suspected > the two brothers were about joining the Tories and that the shortest route to > the Clarendon camp would pass their dwellings. They accordingly took that > road. As they approached Irish's clearing, Allen directed Clough to five his > gun to Train, go on and ask William Irish the nearest road to the Tory camp, > at the same time telling him that he {Clough} had decided to go and join the > Tories. When Clough arrived at the house he found both brothers and made the > statement according tohis orders. Clough was told that he must consider > himself a prisoner; that they would see about his joining the Tories. William > then directed John to take Clough home with him, and he would soon follow and > help take care of him. John had an Indian tomahawk in his hand and told > Clough to walk along with him; they walked on toward John's house, he with > the uplifted tomahawk in his hand. > > When Allen saw this from his place of concealment, he said to Train; "We must > get as near as we can to John's house without being discovered." He and Train > started by one path and Clark crawled along behind the brush fence, the three > meeting near the house undiscovered. > > Here Allen gave directions that under no circumstances was either of them to > fire until he did. He then stationed himself about two rods north of the > path; Clark about the same distance south of it, and Train fifteen or twenty > rods farther east, all beinghidden behind trees. They had not waited long > before Clough stepped fromthe door and, after looking about, started for the > woods. > He had got partly over the fence when Irish came out, partly dressed, with a > gun in one hand and powder-horn in the other. > > He called out to Clough to stop or he would shoot him. While in the act of > raising his gun, apparently to carry out the threat, Allen shot him through > his left hand, knowcking his gun from him. Irish then turned around so as to > face Clark, who shot him through the heart. The party after killing Irish, > went on to Clarendon, and after reconnoitering the Tory camp, returned to > Arlington. [remember, Jacob Howe was in Tinmouth in 1824, when he signed a > petition in support of Uriah Hill from Danby > > The party after killing Irish went to the widow Potter's, in the edge of > Clarendon, and took dinner, stating that they had shot Irish; and here a few > days after Mrs. Irish learned all their names, and also that they did not > intend to kill John Irish, but that William Irish was the man they were > after, as they had been offered o30 for his head." 1 > > The following account indicates the Irish family sought protection before > John was killed.  "In July, 1777, Jesse Irish with his sons went to Gen. > Burgoyne's head-quarters at Whitehall and procured protection papers. On > reaching the British Camp he presented himself to Burgoyne, saying "here is > thy servant, Jesse, and his seven sons," whereupon, promising to either join > the British army or remain quietly at home, he received the General's > gracious protection. It is said that he rendered aid to the British army, by > which his property was confiscatedâ*|. The names of his children are as > follows: Jesse, Jr., Jonathan, William, David, Abel, Peter and John, all of > whom came here with their father." > > Jesse's death was in 1778, age 66, presumably not due to war activities. > > According to our research Peter received particularly harsh treatment because > he was tax collector as well as being a Quaker at the commencement of the > war. There are numerous records regarding confiscation of lands and cattle of > William as well as those of John after his death.   > > Peter Irish moved to Canada from Danby, Rutland Vermont, between 1784 - 1793 > and settled in the Township of Ernestown, Lennox and Addington County, > Ontario Canada. Along with his wife Mary Corey and his children at home. He > was joined by his son Abraham(m. Rebecca Cook) and his daughter Sarah (m. > Weeden Walker). > Peter, Abraham, and Weeden are listed among the earliest settlers in > Ernestown about 1784. > > Much of the township was settled by members of the Jessup's Rangers who > fought with the British during the American Revolution. The Jessup family > came from Nine Partners, Dutchess County NY as did the Irish family. One > unresolved issue is whether Peter, who was a Quaker, fought with Jessup's > Rangers and as a result led him to settle in Ernestown. In 1793, he moved his > family to Adolphustown, Ontario, Canada. > > In 1798, Peter submitted a petition for United Empire Loyalist status, which > was accepted, and was granted 200 acres in Haldimand Township, Northumberland > County which was just opening up for settlement. > > In his Will dated May 25, 1810,  Peter states: "That he is of the Township of > Haldimand in the County of Northumberland in the District of Newcastle and > the Providence of Upper Canada". > > I believe David and WIlliam stayed in Rutland County and other brothers moved > elsewhere > > included in the above are exerpts from > THE HISTORY AND MAP OF DANBY, VERMONT. > Author: J. C. WILLIAMS Publication: RUTLAND, VT   1869. > > ==== AMERICAN-REVOLUTION Mailing List ==== > > ============================== > Visit Ancestry's Library - The best collection of family history > learning and how-to articles on the Internet. > http://www.ancestry.com/learn/library

13th VIRGINIA REGIMENT (West Augusta Regiment) LINEAGE [Wright, Continental Army, p. 291] Authorized 16 September 1776 in the Continental Army as the 13th Virginia Regiment Assigned 27 December 1776 to the Main Army Organized 12 February 1777 at Fort Pitt to consist of nine companies from Yohogania, Monongalia, and Ohio Counties (comprising the former West Augusta District) Assigned 22 May 1777 to the 1st Virginia Brigade, an element of the Main Army Reorganized 1 November 1777 to consist of eight companies Relieved 24 May 1778 from the 1st Virginia Brigade and assigned to the Western Department Reorganized and redesignated 12 May 1779 as the 9th Virginia Regiment, to consist of nine companies Reorganized and redesignated 1 January 1781 as the 7th Virginia Regiment, to consist of two companies Disbanded 1 January 1783 at Fort Pitt, Pennsylvania ENGAGEMENTS [Wright, Continental Army, p. 291] Northern New Jersey Defense of Philadelphia Philadelphia-Monmouth Best regards, Ed -- For Revolutionary War information on the Internet, your first choice should be AMERICANREVOLUTION.ORG

Duke Power Company is seeking approval to build an additional power plant at the Buck Steam Plant site in Rowan county NC. This is on land that borders the Yadkin River at the historic Trading Ford, the river crossing associated with the Indian Trading Path from what is now Petersburg Va. through North Carolina very roughly along the route of present Interstate 85 to the Waxhaws and Catawbas in Georgia and South Carolina. There was a Revolutionary War camp, also not located, in the area in 1780 under the command of General Jethro Sumner. Gen. Nathanael Greene and his forces crossed the Yadkin River at the Trading Ford on February 2nd and 3rd, 1781, taking all the boats with him and leaving Cornwallis' British army unable to pursue. A rear guard engagement occurred on February 3rd, and the British cannonaded the American forces across the river on February 4th. Additional information is available on a local researcher's web site: http://home.webkorner.com/whigkid/tradingford/ or by contacting Ann Brownlee, whigkid@webkorner.com , 704-633-3125. Public comments are encouraged at a NC Utilities Commission hearing which will be held Thursday, November 8, 2001, at 10:00 a.m., in Room 2115, Dobbs Building, 430 North Salisbury Street, Raleigh, NC. Written statements may be submitted and will be included in the Commission's official files, however the Commission will determine whether the certificate should be granted to Duke Power on the basis of testimony presented at the hearing. Written statements should be addressed to: Chief Clerk, North Carolina Utilities Commission, 4325 Mail Service Center, Raleigh, NC 27699-4325. For anyone in proximity to Salisbury, Ann Brownlee will host a public forum to discuss this matter on Monday, October 29th, 2001, at 7:00 pm at the Rowan Public Library, Stanback Room, 201 West Fisher Street, Salisbury, NC. Please pass this information on to anyone who may be interested.

I appreciate the wonderful responses to my query.  Following are the notes I have about the IRISH family.   I do have some records from the State of Vermont showing seizures. Jesse IRISH came to Danby, Vermont from Dutchess County NY in the spring of 1767 with his family which included seven sons. They erected a log cabin on the now, Nelson Colvin farm. On March 14, 1769, one of the sons, Peter b 1743 was appointed the Collector of Danby, Vermont Jesse's son, John Irish, was killed in the following manner. "John Irish and his tragic fate merit some attention from the historian. He and his brother William lived in the north part of the town on adjourning farms, and built their houses but a little distance apart and near the road which ran parallel to the line fence between their farms. When the news of the surrender of Ticonderoga reached Tinmouth on the 1st day of July, 1777, a great part of the inhabitants started southward into Arlington, Shaftsbury and Bennington. Those who did remain on their farms sought protection, as a rule, from Burgoyne. Among these were the two brothers Irish. A little later the council of safety sent a scouting party consisting of Captain Ebenezer Alle, Lieutenant Issac Clark, and John Train and Phineas Clough, private soldiers, into Tinmouth to learn what was going on amont the "Protectioners" and to reconnoitre a Tory camp in East Clarendon. These men were personal acquaintenances of the Irish brothers. When the party arrived in the west part of Tinmouth they were informed that it was suspected the two brothers were about joining the Tories and that the shortest route to the Clarendon camp would pass their dwellings. They accordingly took that road. As they approached Irish's clearing, Allen directed Clough to five his gun to Train, go on and ask William Irish the nearest road to the Tory camp, at the same time telling him that he {Clough} had decided to go and join the Tories. When Clough arrived at the house he found both brothers and made the statement according tohis orders. Clough was told that he must consider himself a prisoner; that they would see about his joining the Tories. William then directed John to take Clough home with him, and he would soon follow and help take care of him. John had an Indian tomahawk in his hand and told Clough to walk along with him; they walked on toward John's house, he with the uplifted tomahawk in his hand. When Allen saw this from his place of concealment, he said to Train; "We must get as near as we can to John's house without being discovered." He and Train started by one path and Clark crawled along behind the brush fence, the three meeting near the house undiscovered. Here Allen gave directions that under no circumstances was either of them to fire until he did. He then stationed himself about two rods north of the path; Clark about the same distance south of it, and Train fifteen or twenty rods farther east, all beinghidden behind trees. They had not waited long before Clough stepped fromthe door and, after looking about, started for the woods. He had got partly over the fence when Irish came out, partly dressed, with a gun in one hand and powder-horn in the other. He called out to Clough to stop or he would shoot him. While in the act of raising his gun, apparently to carry out the threat, Allen shot him through his left hand, knowcking his gun from him. Irish then turned around so as to face Clark, who shot him through the heart. The party after killing Irish, went on to Clarendon, and after reconnoitering the Tory camp, returned to Arlington. [remember, Jacob Howe was in Tinmouth in 1824, when he signed a petition in support of Uriah Hill from Danby The party after killing Irish went to the widow Potter's, in the edge of Clarendon, and took dinner, stating that they had shot Irish; and here a few days after Mrs. Irish learned all their names, and also that they did not intend to kill John Irish, but that William Irish was the man they were after, as they had been offered o30 for his head." 1 The following account indicates the Irish family sought protection before John was killed.  "In July, 1777, Jesse Irish with his sons went to Gen. Burgoyne's head-quarters at Whitehall and procured protection papers. On reaching the British Camp he presented himself to Burgoyne, saying "here is thy servant, Jesse, and his seven sons," whereupon, promising to either join the British army or remain quietly at home, he received the General's gracious protection. It is said that he rendered aid to the British army, by which his property was confiscated…. The names of his children are as follows: Jesse, Jr., Jonathan, William, David, Abel, Peter and John, all of whom came here with their father." Jesse's death was in 1778, age 66, presumably not due to war activities. According to our research Peter received particularly harsh treatment because he was tax collector as well as being a Quaker at the commencement of the war. There are numerous records regarding confiscation of lands and cattle of William as well as those of John after his death.   Peter Irish moved to Canada from Danby, Rutland Vermont, between 1784 - 1793 and settled in the Township of Ernestown, Lennox and Addington County, Ontario Canada. Along with his wife Mary Corey and his children at home. He was joined by his son Abraham(m. Rebecca Cook) and his daughter Sarah (m. Weeden Walker). Peter, Abraham, and Weeden are listed among the earliest settlers in Ernestown about 1784. Much of the township was settled by members of the Jessup's Rangers who fought with the British during the American Revolution. The Jessup family came from Nine Partners, Dutchess County NY as did the Irish family. One unresolved issue is whether Peter, who was a Quaker, fought with Jessup's Rangers and as a result led him to settle in Ernestown. In 1793, he moved his family to Adolphustown, Ontario, Canada. In 1798, Peter submitted a petition for United Empire Loyalist status, which was accepted, and was granted 200 acres in Haldimand Township, Northumberland County which was just opening up for settlement. In his Will dated May 25, 1810,  Peter states: "That he is of the Township of Haldimand in the County of Northumberland in the District of Newcastle and the Providence of Upper Canada". I believe David and WIlliam stayed in Rutland County and other brothers moved elsewhere included in the above are exerpts from THE HISTORY AND MAP OF DANBY, VERMONT. Author: J. C. WILLIAMS Publication: RUTLAND, VT   1869.

I think Lynn Phifer's account should be rearranged slightly: First: "My ancestor, Jesse Irish, a Quaker with seven sons came to Danby when it was opening." Second: "One son John was killed on his front porch by locals." [not Lynn's original sequence of events] Third: "Apparently Jesse and his sons went to Burgoyne for protection. I have no evidence they ever fought..." And, after that point, the Irish property was confiscated by the colony government, the family moved to Canada, etc., all of which seems like an almost inevitable chain of events once son John had been killed amidst Revolutionary zeal. If folks were shooting at my family, I might just move to Canada too -- and my motives might be misunderstood by those already inclined to think bad thoughts. The problem here must be, What did Quakerism have to do with all this? Did the Revolutionaries make it a practice to slay Quakers up there in the northern reaches of New England? I can't find any Vermont materials, but there is a tiny bit for neighboring New Hampshire in "Revolutionary New Hampshire: An Account of the Social and Political Forces Underlying the Transition from Royal Province to American Commonwealth," by Richard Francis Upton, Dartmouth College, 1936, reprinted 1971 by Octagon Books, NY, pp. 50-51, and 58-59. First, to explain the "Association Test" in New Hampshire: It was a loyalty oath (loyalty to the Revolution). "In New Hampshire a standard covenant known as the Association Test was drawn up by the Committee of Safety [on advice of the Continental Congress] and on April 12 [1776] dispatched to the towns. This test read as follows: 'We, the Subscribers, do hereby solemnly engage, and promise, that we will, to the utmost of our Power, at the Risque of our Lives and Fortunes, with Arms, oppose the Hostile Proceedings of the British Fleets and Armies against the United American Colonies.'" [page 50] Unfortunately, 38 percent of these "Tests" have been lost [page 51], which must be kept in mind below. "Among the most interesting religious groups in New Hampshire to express an opinion of the Revolution were the Quakers and other conscientious objectors. The Association Test showed 131 persons who did not sign for reasons of conscience or religion, preferring not to take sides. Of this number 73 were Quakers. In all there were probably about 200 Quakers in the colony located principally in Weare, Dover, Rochester, Brentwood, and Kensington. The greater part of them expressed their opposition to the general principle of war when the Test was submitted. For a time they were suspected of Loyalism. On November 8, 1777, the House of Representatives ordered a legislative investigation of the records of the Quaker Societies throughout the state. No evidence of a Loyalist tendency seems to have been found. On the whole the religious scruples of the Quakers were tolerated and respected." [pages 58-59] What I find interesting here is that the Quakers of New Hampshire don't seem to have responded to the Association Test as a bloc. But, first recall that 38 percent of the Tests have been lost. Just for fun, let's say -- imagining -- that half of the Quaker responses were lost. So, let's compensate by taking the 73 known Quakers who refused to sign and double that number to 146. Call it 150, just to be really sloppy. With 200 Quakers in the colony altogether, it is implied here that at least 25 percent of them did sign the Test, agreeing to fight the Redcoats "with Arms," even if they did mention, according to the author, a dislike of the general principle of wars. And in reality, it looks like a lot more than 25 percent did so -- more than half of them signed the test, pledging support of the Revolution by arms, *if* a high percentage of Quaker "Tests" were preserved. Such seems to be what's between the lines, with emphasis on the word *seems*. So, maybe a number of Quakers were signing under duress of threats of violence and other nasty things. Or, maybe a number of Quakers made exceptions to their pacifism when it came to Redcoats. Regardless, we read that "for a time they were suspected of Loyalism," which may not have been at all comfortable if there were any mobs around, and in the end the Quaker principles were respected only "on the whole," which implies exceptions where they were not tolerated or respected; i.e., maybe some of them were thrashed. On the other hand, the book says that the New Hampshire Quakers lived primarily at only five towns (out of 155 towns colonywide), so they could have had some safety in numbers at the towns where they were concentrated, with the stragglers left at the mercy of the exceptions to the overall "on the whole" tolerance. It doesn't look like the colony government had any real problems with them, nor did the colony government persecute them, but you never know about some local hotheads out yonder. Combine the above with fellow listmember and colleague Lynn Phifer's report: "My ancestor, Jesse Irish, a Quaker with seven sons came to Danby when it was opening. ... In any case one son John was killed on his front porch by locals." If the mood in Vermont was akin to the mood in New Hampshire, I would see this as an isolated incident rather than a colonywide campaign of terror against the Quakers, not that this would have helped out son John any. At the same time, based on New Hampshire, we really can't say that Jesse Irish was a total pacifist or had failed to sign loyalty oaths just because he was a Quaker. John could have been killed just because he was a Quaker, perhaps, but what little evidence there is about Quakers up thataway just doesn't show them as a solid bloc, nor opposition to them as a solid bloc either. I guess the final word here might be that I can't really say anything about the Quakers up north with confidence, unless maybe someone else on the list has something less vague. What little I found sure is iffy. Lester Powers ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

I had mentioned Quaker pacifism, and Murray McCombs replied, in part: > For Vermont, Quaker Timothy Rogers was the equivolent > Quaker Moses. He set off for Upper Canada from Danby to > settle a new world in Upper Canada. > > It's little wonder that history doesn't record or > proclaim the Quaker achievment with such misinformation > as being simply pacifist. After my morning visit to the local library, I can attest that, at least here, Quakers are neither recorded nor proclaimed all that much. But, the point now is Lynn Phifer's > ancestor, Jesse Irish, a Quaker with seven sons came > to Danby [Vermont] when it was opening. <...snip...> > In any case one son John was killed on his front porch > by locals. [and then the family fled] I think a primary question is this: When we think of Quakers at Danby, VT during the Revolution, should we picture in our heated little imaginations scenes like The Burning Of Atlanta in "Gone With The Wind," where in this case the flames are roaring out of Yankee Quaker homes? Well, for a tiny little place like Danby, which doesn't even rate mention in the index of my road atlas, these things can be hard to figure. Aha! But, there was Timothy Rogers at Danby, about the same time!!! We can use Timothy Rogers as a surrogate. I couldn't find Mr. Rogers at the library either, but he is in a periodical, "The Canadian Friend," May 2001, vol. 97, no. 2, pp. 21-22 (see the web site www.quaker.ca/cfriend/2001-May/CF-MAY2001-lambert.pdf), to wit and viz thusly: "By 1777 Rogers, with Sarah and their first young son, moved to Danby, Vermont where he attempted to settle down during the Revolutionary war. He was exempted from fighting in the military due to his use of the 'simple language.' Although he was not yet a member of the Society of Friends, people who were interviewed by the military said that they thought Rogers was a Quaker, so the military 'let me go.'" Danby seems to have been a piece o' cake for Rogers during the Revolution, even though he wasn't formally a Quaker yet, though people there thought he was. I guess one could say he was sort of accused of being a Quaker, and the result was that he was left alone to do his farming. Incidentally, he "*attempted* to settle down" because he was something of a born wanderer, not because he was harassed. Eventually, Lynn will have to read a history of Danby. I noticed that the LDS has on film "The History and Map of Danby, Vermont," by J.C. Williams, which can be rented at Lynn's local family history center. Maybe that will mention the brother of the tax collector getting shot on his porch and his folks subsequently taking it on the lam. Meantime, Timothy Rogers wasn't shot or lynched at Danby, so we can't assume any sort of purge going on there. The shooting might have been an isolated incident. Lester Powers ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

A few weeks ago, I posted to the list regarding my search for the *actual* Boston Tea Party site in relation to modern Boston streets. I, as well as like-minded associates, search for such sites all the time with some success. Compared to most so-called "lost" sites, that of the BTP has more advantages and fewer disadvantages. The area was settled (pop. 12,000), it was mapped well and periodically (most are online), and relevant streets have been in place since well before the event until the present. I have been asked by some to report back to the list when I learned the answer forthcoming from the "experts". I am sorry to report that the closest I have able to obtain in the way of a response from that group is that 1)the actual site is unknown and 2) it cannot be determined. My answer to them is that it can indeed be found, I tell them where it is, and provide my evidence for doing so. A website showing my findings is in place (and will remain so) at http://jrshelby.com/bostontp2.htm This is the only internet site devoted to locating the actual site of the BTP, providing relevant evidence. It is being submitted to search services and should become relatively easy-to-find for those interested in the site (or in historical maps of Boston over the years). No evidence has been forthcoming to refute the conclusions given on the website. The continued presence of the website should result in the acceptance of its findings or should eventually evoke rebuttal from those believing they have the evidence to do so. Recent additions to the site: - endnotes (sources) - extracts from emails received (names withheld), and my responses to same. - "What happened at Hubbard's Wharf" (the BTP was at Griffin's Wharf). This is the probable root cause for the confusion over the actual site. John Robertson

Well, Orrin Hatch is still in there pitching, drumming up business of making genealogy #1 although it is only presently in #2 status of recreational/hobby importance. http://hatch.senate.gov/pressapp/record.cfm?id=178829 Wednesday, September 26, 2001 - SENATE PASSES HATCH BILL TO COMMEMORATE OCTOBER 2001 AS FAMILY HISTORY MONTH WASHINGTON - By unanimous consent, the Senate today approved legislation introduced by Sen. Orrin G. Hatch to designate October as "Family History Month." "Millions of Americans are researching the history of their families," said the Utah Republican. "Experts say that in the United States, genealogy is now the second most popular hobby next to gardening. It is believed that more that 80 million Americans are currently actively searching for more information about their ancestors. "It is only natural that we want to find out more about our ancestors," Hatch continued. "What better way to bring families closer together than by discovering more about the story of their own family? Like it or not, who we are today is in large part, a product of our ancestors. Hatch's bill (S.R. 160), which was co-sponsored by Robert Bennett (R-Utah), commemorates October as Family History Month and encourages President Bush to issue a proclamation calling upon the people of the United States to observe the month of October with appropriate ceremonies and activities. "With the advent of the Internet, there has been an explosion of interest in family history," Hatch continued. "Last month alone, more than 14 million Americans used the Internet to research their family history. Genealogy Internet sites are some of the most popular sites on the World Wide Web. My church, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, has family history information on nearly 500 million individuals on its family history web site (www.familysearch.com)." "Essentially, we are all immigrants to this country. Our ancestors came from different parts of the globe," Hatch said. "By searching for our roots, we come closer together as a human family. S.R. 160 had 84 co-sponsors and was approved by unanimous consent. "Researching ancestry is a very important component of identity. It can lead to long-sought-after family reunions or allow for life saving medical treatments that only genetic links will allow," Hatch said. "For all of these reasons, I encourage people across this nation to find out more about where they came from." -----Original Message----- From: Chris & Tom Tinney, Sr. [mailto:vctinney@dcn.davis.ca.us] Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 11:48 AM To: AMERICAN-REVOLUTION-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [A-REV] Re: [genealib] Family History Month Orrin Hatch did this before in another area, with [a Congressional Resolution declaring a "National Women's History Week." It succeeded in 1981, when Senator Orrin Hatch (R-UT) and Congresswoman Barbara Mikulski (D-MD) co-sponsored the first Joint Congressional Resolution.] It created an [Overwhelming Response As word spread rapidly across the nation, state departments of education encouraged celebrations of National Women's History Week as an effective means toward achieving equity goals within classrooms. Before long, many states developed and distributed curriculum materials to all of their public schools. Organizations sponsored essay contests and other special programs in their local areas. Within a few years, thousands of schools and communities were celebrating National Women's History Week, supported and encouraged by resolutions from governors, city councils, school boards, and the U.S. Congress. Entire Month of March In 1987, the National Women's History Project petitioned Congress to expand the national celebration to the entire month of March. Since then, National Women's History Month has been annually proclaimed by either the Congress or the President. Each year, programs and activities in schools, workplaces, and communities have become more extensive as information and program ideas have been developed and shared.] http://www.slinfo.com/features/articles/enw/enw_3_01/hispanic.htm Senator Orrin Hatch wants to make this "hobby" a "much more important social, political and economic [issue] for people to focus on." Genealogy will be "supported and encouraged by resolutions from governors, city councils, school boards, and the U.S. Congress", with the potential for many states to process "developed and distributed" genealogy and family history "curriculum materials to all of their public schools". http://www.ancestry.com/library/view/news/articles/4225.asp Think of what this would do for the correct study of American Revolutionary War History. Respectfully yours, Tom Tinney, Sr. Genealogy and Family History Internet Web Directory http://www.dcn.davis.ca.us/~vctinney/ "Free Coverage of the Genealogy World in a Nutshell" Who's Who in America, Millennium Edition [54th] - Who's Who In Genealogy and Heraldry, [both editions] ------------------------------------------------ "Erickson, Arthur" wrote: > Folks, > > The following is a political opinion. However, it is > relevant to our work. > I have kept it brief deliberately, so please do not flame > me for lack of > detail and argument. > > In "Eastman's Online Genealogy Newsletter" I just read > about an effort to > declare October as "Family History Month". The article is > clearly in favor > of the concept. I expect that genealogical societies and > other groups will > start writing their congressional representatives in favor > of the move. > > Despite my position as Genealogy Librarian, my initial > reaction is against > the idea. Granted, genealogy is a growing and extremely > popular hobby. > However, it is just that-- a hobby. There are much more > important social, > political and economic issues for people to focus on. > Genealogy does not > necessarily need governmental endorsement in this form. > Indeed, I am > considering writing my state senators in opposition (as a > citizen, not as an > employee of my library). > > I think that is important to at least consider why we > would endorse this > move. Working in a subject area does not automatically > commit librarians to > all forms of advocacy for that subject. > > Arthur > > Arthur Erickson > Genealogy Librarian > Greensboro Public Library > 219 N. Church St. > Greensboro, NC 27402 > > (336) 574-4099 > arthur.erickson@ci.greensboro.nc.us > http://www.greensborolinbrary.nc.us ==== AMERICAN-REVOLUTION Mailing List ==== ============================== Visit Ancestry's Library - The best collection of family history learning and how-to articles on the Internet. http://www.ancestry.com/learn/library

Lynn Phifer <HTHS57@aol.com>: > I am just getting to the Vermont loyalist part of my genealogy so this > comment is more of a footnote than substance. However I would be interested > in learning more about similar profiles. I have not found my family on > muster lists > > My ancestor, Jesse Irish, a Quaker with seven sons came to Danby when it was <.....snip.....> The Quakers were, of course, pacifists and for the most part simply neutral during the Revolution. I found mention of the fate of the Quakers in New Hampshire today. It wasn't wonderful, but it wasn't all that bad either. They were mostly tolerated. New Hampshire isn't Vermont (although the governor of New Hampshire certainly thought that it was), but if this is close enough I can go back to the library for the details I found tomorrow. It's in a book devoted to New Hampshire and only New Hampshire during the Revolution. Let me know. >>> Well, I've been misdirected on this issue for a number of years. Technically yes, Quakers who bear arms are no longer Quakers at that very instance, though Oliver Hazard Perry of the War of 1812 fame was from a RI Quaker family (wish I had a nickel for that unknown fact), Yet we find the formation of the ARW "Fighting Quakers" etal. represented by Benjamin Franklin, Betsy Ross, Mifflin, etc. Upper Canadian Quakers were to retain affiliation to NY Quaker Yearly Meetings well into the late 1800's. The Underground Railway was yet to come. I have found no scholarly research on these early affiliations. Yet, one must look at the London England Mother Meeting whom the US Quakers reported to, controlled by such Lloyd's of London, Barclay's Bank, numerous Quaker military manufactures, merchant empires ...Quaker run all, to truly understand the trans-colonial conflict. Some would equate this to the "Star Chamber", but that was many years off, though Masonic affiliation and cross battle line associations would continue to play prominence during the ARW. Whoaaa to the common farmer citizen soldier! For Vermont, Quaker Timothy Rogers was the equivolent Quaker Moses. He set off for Upper Canada from Danby to settle a new world in Upper Canada. It's little wonder that history doesn't record or proclaim the Quaker achievment with such misinformation as being simply pacifist. Cheers Murray McCombs

Hart, Albert Bushnell with Mabel Hill . Camps and Firesides of the Revolution http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/toc/modeng/public/HarCamp.html <A HREF="http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/toc/modeng/public/HarCamp.html">Camps and Firesides of the Revolution</A>

Lloyd-- > Was there an official date when Washingtons troops > first encamped at Valley Forge ? I can only guess at the criteria used by the NPS but suggest that they use 19 December 1777 which is when Washington arrived and established his HQ there. The sick and wounded were not scheduled to go to Valley Forge. Instead they were supposed to go to Reading PA. Washington listed his HQ as White Marsh through 10 December, then Swede's Ford on 11-12 December, The Gulph 13-18 and Valley Forge 20 et al. [There were no General Orders on the 19th, just "After Orders" published on the 18th. On 19 December Geo. Washingtonn wrote Patrick Henry under the byline "Camp 14 Miles from Philadelphia"] [ref: The Writings of George Washington from the Original Manuscript Sources, 1745-1799. John C. Fitzpatrick, Editor.--vol. 10] A couple of key extracts: "Head Quarters, Sweede's Ford, December 12, 1777. "Parole --. Countersigns --. " A careful subaltern from each brigade is to repair this " day to the last encampment of the army, to collect and " take care of the sick and conduct them to Reading. " These officers are to apply to the Regimental Surgeons " for information where to find the sick of their brigades. " Every motive of duty and humanity requires the most " exact attention to this order. Drs. Draper and Campbell, " at Mr. West's will give assistance to the subalterns...." "Head. Quarters, at the Gulph, December 16, 1777. "Parole --. Countersigns --. "The tents are to be carried to the encampment of the " troops, and pitched immediately." The Gulph was the place where Gulph (or Gulf) Creek cuts through Gulph Hill and empties into the Schuylkill River at West Conshohocken, Pa. Matsons Ford crosses the Schuylkill at this point Background: Washington's army was at Whitemarsh when Howe, hearing the Washington was preparing to depart, ordered his army out of Philadelphia in an attempt to scatter the Americans. The Brits marched out on the evening of 4 December. After several days of trying to dislodge Washington, Howe gave up and on 8 December returned to Philadelphia with the army arriving there about 10:30pm. Washington's army started its departure on 11 December and was delayed by the forward elements clashing with a large foraging expedition under Cornwallis. I am not knowledgeable enough to say exactly who arrived where when; however, Boatner gives the occupation of Valley Forge Winter Quarters as being 19 Dec 1777 thru 18 June 1778. I have serious reservations as to the existence of a hospital at Valley Forge as early as 16 December. On 12 December, the sick were ordered to be taken to Reading. I hope that someone more knowledgeable than I can give you specific as to the movement of the 12th Virginia Regiment. Bob Brooks

John: That's one of those old wives tales that have been floating around for ? knows how long. Kind of like German losing out on being our national language by one vote, Washington and Hamilton being gay lovers, etc, etc ad nauseum Best regards, Ed -- For Revolutionary War information on the Internet, your first choice should be AMERICANREVOLUTION.ORG

Hello list. Was there an official date when Washingtons troops first encamped at Valley Forge ? Of the units assigned to VF many had sick troops in "hospital" meaning that they could have been in VF or in any of the hospitals where the sick were sent in the surrounding area. My ancestor served in the VA 12th, assigned to VF and is listed as deceased on December 16, 1777. The NPS administration at VF says that he is not eligible to be on the Muster Roll list. That's the reason for my post ! Your comments please. Lloyd D. Ellis

> A post on SCBATTLES-L said that there was reference, in a speech to the > Sons of Italy, to there being 3 regiments of Italians during the > Revolution. Anyone ever heard of such? This might be a misreading of the ethnicity of Hessian Regiment d'Angelli. In 1779, General Louis Marquis d'Angelli became the 'chef' of the regiment that historians now call "Regiment Rall/von Wöllwarth/von Trümbach/d'Angelli" which was formerly known as Regiment Rall [majority of whom were captured at Trenton in 1776], then as part of the so-called Combined Regiment (remnants of the Rall, v. Knyphauasen and v. Loßberg [Lossberg] regiments), then after 1777 as the Regiment von Wöllwarth, then after 1778 as the Regiment von Trümbach, then after 1779 as the Regiment d'Angelli. The Combined Regiment was at Philadelphia with Howe in 1777, then in the fall of 1778 the regiment was sent south and was part of the group which took Savannah just after Christmas 1778. The regiment was with Maitland's battalion of the 71st (Fraser's Highlanders) at the Battle of Stono Ferry SC in June 1779. When the French showed up at Tybee Island at the mouth of the Savannah River in early September 1779, the regiment was at Beaufort SC with Maitland. They were part of 800 men in Maitland's journey through the swamps behind the South Carolina sea islands which reached Savannah during the 24 hr cease fire d'Estaing granted Prevost allegedly to be used to draft the convention of his surrender. This reinforcement preserved the British control of Savannah which was highlighted by the failure of the combined Franco-American attack upon the British fortifications outside Savannah 222 years ago this morning, 9 Oct 1779. No, Mailand's troops didn't walk all the way from Beaufort to Savannah. They travelled by ship from Beauford down Beauford River, then up Port Royal Sound and through Skull Creek (between Pinckney's and Hilton Head islands) into Callabogue Sound (between Dawfuskee and Hilton Head islands) from where the soldiers marched the length of Dawfuskee while the boats went around through the creeks. The troops were reloaded at Dawfuskee landing and rowed down the New River through Wall's Cut and then up Wright's River to what is now dredged out as the intercoastal waterway where they had to disembark and drag their boats to the Savannah River. They entered Savannah River above the French blockade and then rowed to Savannah another ten miles or so. The boats (under British naval Lieut. Thomas Goldesborough) returned to Dawfuskie landing for a second load and all 800 fit troops arrived at Savannah before the end of the cease-fire. The fleet left in Callabogue Sound included a ship-rigged "sloop of war," two galleys, one half-galley, a victualler and two troop transports. In addition to the ship's boats, just about every thing capable of floating was commandeered, including canoes (specifically mentioned). The strain of the trek led to the death of the much beloved, one-armed LtCol the Honorable John Maitland not long after his arrival at Savannah. Whereas Henry Knox's bringing the Ticonderoga cannon to Boston and Benedict Arnold's march to Quebec where magnificant American winter treks, John Maitland's march through the South Carolina swamps is one of the most remarkable (I think THE most remarkable) British maneuvers conducted during the RevWar. This would put one regiment with an Italian-sounding name in South Carolina during the Rev War. I can't now recall whether d'Estaing had any regiments in his French forces which could be considered Italian or had Italian-sounding names. Somewhere in my files, I have a list of the Franco-American order of battle for the Seige of Savannah. Bob Brooks

As ridiculous as this may sound, and I know this may be going through the back door on this question taking the long way around, but I have found 93 Catholic parishes within South Carolina, with the Diocese being located within Charleston SC. If one wanted online to zero in on exactly which parish these Italians possibily had their community, I bet one could find those parishs which held those documents of birth, etc. Rhonda Houston http://www.parishesonline.com/ http://www.parishesonline.com/#searchCityState http://www.parishesonline.com/Scripts/dbsearch_GenURLMap.asp -----Original Message----- From: John Robertson [mailto:jr@jrshelby.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 10:59 AM To: AMERICAN-REVOLUTION-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [A-REV] Italian regiments? A post on SCBATTLES-L said that there was reference, in a speech to the Sons of Italy, to there being 3 regiments of Italians during the Revolution. Anyone ever heard of such? ==== AMERICAN-REVOLUTION Mailing List ==== ============================== Search over 1 Billion names at Ancestry.com! http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist1.asp

A post on SCBATTLES-L said that there was reference, in a speech to the Sons of Italy, to there being 3 regiments of Italians during the Revolution. Anyone ever heard of such?

>Today is the 222nd anniversary of the Battle of the Siege of >Savannah. Members of Bonaventure Chapter NSDAR will meet at the site (MLK >and Louisville Rd, Savannah, GA) at noon for the placing of a sign and a >wreath. If possible please join us. If you can't attend please visit our >web site to learn a little about the battle and the fact that there is >still no memorial to the 700 fallen on the site. > > http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Village/5369/seigeinfo.html > >Faye

Whoever you are Farns10th Thank you for supplying the bio page for William Stark, I was able to access that site.! (Your EMail wa unsigned, or I would thank you by name!)