I wonder what mode of travel in 1782, these 50 men had had once they boarded this barge, going from one point to another? What kind of transportation would one have suspected they would have had when getting to the barge, and then, once at their destination to leave the barge to travel on to their next destination??? If one was a foot soldier, obviously one would use their feet to travel, but what about those that rode horses? Do you think there would have been a source of transportation waiting for these soldiers on the otherside during war time?? The Navy still uses barges for transport from point A to point B. When I was in the Navy they transported vehicles and interestingly, there was always a small area for animals to be transported... They had to be accommodated. Within Maryland, today these barges are still used for large and cumbersome items such as jeeps and military vehicles that need to get from one point to another. So what do you think?? Rhonda Houston ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Whatever the Barge Fearnought was, it would appear that she was large as she had 50 men initially in 1782 then 36 later on plus three officers two warrants and a steward. She had a 6-pounder bow gun. The following documents may be of interest. The State of Maryland to Edward Spedden, Gentleman, Greeting. Be it known that We reposing especial trust and Confidence in your Patriotism valour Conduct and Fidelity, do by these presents constitute and appoint you to be Second Lieutenant of the Barge Fearnought in the Service of this State, fitted out for repelling every hostile invasion thereof, and for the Defence of our Liberties. You are therefore carefully and diligently to discharge the Duty of Second Lieutenant of the said Barge by doing and performing all manner of things thereunto belonging, according to the rules and Discipline of War, and the usage of the Sea, and the Instructions which may from Time to Time be given you. And we do strictly charge and require all Officers, Seamen, Marines, and others under your Command, to be Obedient to your Orders as Second Lieutenant of the said Barge and you are to observe and follow all such Orders and Directions which you shall receive from the Supreme Executive Power of this State. This Commission to be in force until Lawf! ully revoked. Given at Annapolis in Council this 23rd Day of May, A. D. 1782.

Excuse me, but I thought "barges" were floating armored units (barges), very useful in shelling coastal towns or cities from rivers and estuaries nearby. They could handle sizable mortars and cannon of varying sizes because of their sizable platform. The discussion is VERY interesting though. chuck lord >

The Navy has the ship's log to make significant entries. What would the militia or Cont. Army use to similar entries? And where would you find the information? thanks, Charles

Whatever the Barge Fearnought was, it would appear that she was large as she had 50 men initially in 1782 then 36 later on plus three officers two warrants and a steward. She had a 6-pounder bow gun. The following documents may be of interest. The State of Maryland to Edward Spedden, Gentleman, Greeting. Be it known that We reposing especial trust and Confidence in your Patriotism valour Conduct and Fidelity, do by these presents constitute and appoint you to be Second Lieutenant of the Barge Fearnought in the Service of this State, fitted out for repelling every hostile invasion thereof, and for the Defence of our Liberties. You are therefore carefully and diligently to discharge the Duty of Second Lieutenant of the said Barge by doing and performing all manner of things thereunto belonging, according to the rules and Discipline of War, and the usage of the Sea, and the Instructions which may from Time to Time be given you. And we do strictly charge and require all Officers, Seamen, Marines, and others under your Command, to be Obedient to your Orders as Second Lieutenant of the said Barge and you are to observe and follow all such Orders and Directions which you shall receive from the Supreme Executive Power of this State. This Commission to be in force until Lawf! ully revoked. Given at Annapolis in Council this 23rd Day of May, A. D. 1782. ROLL OF THE BARGE FEARNOUGHT. CAPT. SPEDDING. THE NAMES TIME LAST PLACE OF RESIDENCE COMPLEC- OF MEN OF AND PLACE OF THEIR BIRTH. STATURE. TION. ENLISTED FOR INLISTMENT. THE BARGE "FEARNOUGHT." Robert Burch 27 May Talbot County 5.5 Dark Wm. L. Merrick 27 " " 5.5 " George Willson 27 Caroline County 5.8 Fair Thomas Moore 27 " " 5.11 " John Shipperd 28 Talbot " 5.6 " Thos. Shenin 28 " " 5.8 " John Stuart 28 " " 5.6 Dark Henry Buckly 28 " " 5.9 Fair Levi Neighbours 28 " " 5.7 " Thos. Ewbanks 28 " " 6.0 " John Jacobs, Jr. 28 " " 5.6 Dark Thos. Chapman " " " James Fleming 28 " " 5.11 Fair Zadok Harvey 29 Caroline " 5.10 Dark Chas. Price 29 Talbot " 5.10 Fair Richard Eaton 29 " " 6.0 Dark Wm. Lee 29 " " 6.2 Fair Wm. Low 30 " " 5.7 " Thos. Perry 1 June Caroline " 5.6 " Henry Perry 1 " " 5.6 " Joseph Bush 1 Talbot County 5.10 1/2 Dark Nehemiah Beckwith 1 Dorset " 5.7 " David Davis 1 " " 5.11 " James Frazier 1 " " 5.9 " Wm. Frazier 1 " " 5.10 " John Thomas, Jr. 1 " " 5.5 1/2 " Saml. Abbet 1 Talbot " 5.11 Fair George Price 1 " " 5.5 " Sails Canner 1 " " 5.10 Dark Thos. Richardson 2 " " 5.10 Fair Emmory Collins Caroline " 5.6 Dark Saml. Farrow 4 " " 5.8 Fair Jacob Jackson 4 Queen Ann's County 5.5 Dark Henry Powel 4 Caroline " 5.8 1/2 " James Neighbours 4 Talbot " 5.5 Fair James Crouch 5 " " 5.5 Dark Rich. Ewbanks 11 " " 5.10 Fair James Collins 11 Caroline " 6.1 " William Murphy 12 " " 5.9 Dark William Rumble 15 " " 5.9 " John Thomas 16 Dorset " 5.7 " John Wheelor 1 " " 5.10 " William Wiliby 30 " " 6.4 Fair William Navy 10 " " 5.8 Dark John Frazier 7 July " " 6.1 " Rich. Smith 22 Baltimore Town, 5.8 Fair born in Balto. County Gideon Gambrel 15 June Caroline County 5.7 " Daniel Oneal 26 July Annapolis, 5.10 Dark born in New England George Gore 26 Annapolis, 5.8 " born in New England John Faris(or Fanis) 29 Talbot County [Each was paid £3 bounty except Richard Eaton, John Thomas and George Gore, who were paid £3.15. Each enlisted for one year except William Navy and George Gore, who enlisted to Jan. 1st, 1783.] A Pay Roll of the Officers and Men of the Barge Fearnought, Capt. Levin Spedden. OFFICERS' AND MEN'S PAY PER OFFICERS' AND MEN'S PAY PER NAMES AND STATION. MONTH. NAMES AND STATION. MONTH. Captain £15 Boatswn. 5. 12. 6 Levin Spedden George Wilson 1st Lieut. 10 Gunner 5. 12. 6 Zadock Botfield Jacob Jackson 2nd Lieut. 10 Steward 3. 15. 0 Edward Spedden Samuel Abbot Privates, £3 each per month Privates Privates John Frazier, (for Joseph Valliant, (absent) Nehem. Beckwith, (absent) 1 year, Furld.) John Jacobs Henry Powel, William Lee, (absent) Thomas Chapman (in Flying Fish) William Frazier William Rumble Thos. Perry, Thomas Moore Thomas Ewbanks (in Flying Fish) Zadock Harvey James Collins John Thomas, Jr., William Merrick Emory Collins (in Flying Fish) Gideon Gambrel Henry Perry, Richd.Eaton, (absent) William Willowby (in Flying Fish) John Thomas George Price John Steward James Neighbours Charles Price Joseph Bush David Davis John Shepherd William Low James Frazier Samuel Farrow William Navy Joseph Christian John Weaver John Wheeler Thos. Richardson James Barnes, (paid off) [Pay commenced 21st Sept. '82, for all except Joseph Christian, whose pay com- menced Nov. 15th, '82. Each was paid for 2 Months and pay was due to Jan. 1st, 1783.] Annapolis, Saturday, Dec., 1782. Gentlemen As you have suspended me from officiating the duty of Lt. on board the Barge Fearnought, I think It a hard case that I have not had a hearing in my own defence, as there is so many false reports propogated to my prejudice, in respect of my Conduct on that day in the action with the British Barges, Sincerely was this. I was Stationed at the bow Gun a 6lber. when we came into Action the first fire bursted, as much as Two feet of the uper part of the Muzzle blew of. I immediatly acquainted the Capt. of the Misfortune his answer was try her again my Answer was here is at It then and accordingly fired two rounds Shot & Two rounds Grape before the Comodore's Barge had blew up & It's said that I Contradicted his Orders when he gave Orders to board the British Barge then Nearly Along side the Comodore's Barge. I affirm on the word of a man that I did not hear the Orders given being at too great a distance & the men in Confusion but Expected as the men had their Oars out! that we was to try to board the British Barge & try to save some of the Comodore's men if possible that was blown Overboard. I saw our men Confused in rowing some giving way a Head & Others backing water I called to them & told them to give way all together & not to be so Confused and as for leaving my Station I never left It till we where Oblidged to make our retreat & all Sails Set. Then I went Aft & told the boy at the Helmn to let me have the Helmn as I thought I could Steer better myself. & If Capt. Speddin wanted me forward I would gone at the first word. I am, Gentlemen Yr. Hble. Servt. tho' in Disgrace. Zadok Botfield. <http://www.mdarchives.state.md.us/megafile/msa/speccol/sc2900/sc2908/000001/000018/html/am18--611.html>

Fortunately our library was gifted by the DAR the series of microfilm for the Revolutionary War. Pension applications both denied and approved; the payroll manifests for the units; the land warrants number card for those who earned land for their service; the compiled index of course. Most of the Naval material were destroyed during the burning of Washington DC so there is not much for we who have an maritime ancestor in the RW. These are for Continental Service only. The state militia materials are at the state archives although we are fortunate to have those for South Carolina which include military service and patriotic deeds and the SC land grants for service. I am not sure and will have to enquire as to what Rev. War material we do not have in the collection. We also have an excellent collection of reference books dealing with the North Carolina land grants in TN and Ohio which also has maps which one may locate the land an ancestor took up; and for instance plus Gwalthy and others compiled lists such as Indent Lists. Tree Mother A Daughter > PS: We also have an index for the War of 1812 but no personnel records. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jim Elbrecht (by way of John Robertson <jr@jrshelby.com>) > <elbrecht@email.com> > To: <AMERICAN-REVOLUTION-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 5:37 AM > Subject: [A-REV] Complete pensions on M804 > > > > Cardi2@aol.com wrote; > > > > >I'm questioning something. I have seen the M804 films on the Rev. > > War. They > > >are an index. They only record the name of the veteran, regiment, where > > >from, etc. - a little bit of information. You still have to write to > the > > >NARA to get the file. > > > > That sounds like M313 -- the index to the 1812 pensions. [or maybe > > M860 - the guide to M881, the compiled service records of RevWar > > soldiers?] There may be an index to M804, but it would seem to be > > redundant-- they are alphabetical already. [there is an M805 which > > has 'selected records' -- about 10 pages of what the clerk thought > > were most 'genealogically significant'. I'll just say that I've seen > > plenty of treasures after that page that says 'nonselected records'.]] > > > > > Now does Heritage Quest have the whole file, not just > > >the index? > > > > Yes. > > > > > Some files can run for 75 to 100 pages providing your guy was > > >an officer. > > > > Doesn't even have to be an officer. I've seen some real long ones > > from Privates or widows who were having a hard time proving their > > story, or were just plain loquacious. I'd say, on average the > > files are 20-30 pages. There are probably as many longer ones as > > shorter. [and so far the two guys I know are mine have been 10 & 16 > > pages.] > > > > > Does it also take in the Bounty Land Records and the man's > > >millitary record? > > > > Most of the BL Warrants are noted-- but they just list the #, the > > acreage, the date assigned, and the state the soldier served in. > > Sometimes some of those fields are blank. > > > > > > The closest I've seen to a 'service record' in any of the files is the > > soldier's original discharge & the pass that often accompanied them. > > [probably written on the back of the discharge] > > > > I might have seen an enlistment or commission in one file, but it was > > very faded & the guy wasn't mine, so I just made a note of it and went > > on. [Zebulon Butler, Col of 2d CT, wife Phebe, in PA in1831; last file > > on reel M804-439] > > > > Sometimes there is substantiation from an adjutant someplace in the > > mid 1800's saying they found, or didn't find, so-and-so on the rolls > > of some company. And I've seen declarations from old commanders, > > paymasters or their descendants which said 'I have the books of said > > company in my possession, and have checked the rolls. . . ' > > > > Most of the unit names, dates and places need to looked at as the > > recollections of old warriors. For the purposes of genealogy, they > > are perhaps more important than the 'real truth' --- but as history, > > to be taken with a grain of salt. > > > > >I would like it verified that the actual pension file is for sale by > > Heritage > > >Quest. > > > > Scepticism is good. I couldn't believe when I figured this out a few > > months ago that it wasn't just common knowledge that you could get the > > complete file so fast, for so little. When the files were only > > $10, it would have been a harder decision to make. Now it seems like > > a no-brainer to me. [Now if they'd just get the 1812 pensions > > filmed, I could have a real ball.] > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > ==== AMERICAN-REVOLUTION Mailing List ==== > > > > > > > > ============================== > > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, > go to: > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > > >

Apparently you've got two different ways in which "fearnought" was used, both which were associated with the navy. Rhonda Houston http://www.tbheritage.com/Portraits/Fearnought.html (Take a close look at paragraph five! Rhonda Houston Fearnought Bay colt, 1755 (Regulus - Silvertail by Henage's Whitenose). Family 32. Fearnought was the most important colonial era sire in America and the most important stallion until the arrival of Medley in 1784, some say even up to Diomed (imported in 1798). Bred in England by William Warren, Fearnought was foaled in 1755. His sire was Regulus, one of the best racing sons of the Godolphin Arabian and many times a leading sire of winners in England. His dam was a mare known as Silvertail, or Bay Silvertail, a daughter of Mr. Heneage's Whitenose (by Hall's Arabian), second dam by Rattle (by a son of Harpur's Barb), third dam by Darley's Arabian, fourth dam the Old Child Mare by Sir T. Gresley's Bay Arabian, fifth dam Mr. Cook's Vixen by the Helmsley Turk, sixth dam, a Royal Natural Barb Mare (Dodsworth's dam). Fearnought was a King's Plate winner, and won four mile heats under high weights and so was considered the most desirable of specimens for importation to improve the small, sprinting types prevalent at the time in the Virginia Colony. He was a big, bright bay horse, very nearly 16 hands high, and very strongly made. So it came to pass that when Virginian Colonel John Baylor sent a very specific order for the kind of stallion he was looking for to his agent in England, the word came back that Fearnought fit the description perfectly. Baylor had asked for "a most beautiful strong bay at least 14.3 hands high, as much higher as possible, provided he has beauty, strength and sp't with it, and one that had won some Kings plates with a pedigree at full length and cert. of age under a noblemen's hand as most of the list belong ot noble'n." The General Stud Book entry for Fearnought doesn't carry the usual comment "sent to Virginia" as it does for many other exported horses, but does note that Silvertail's next foal, an unnamed 1756 colt by Cade was sent to America in 1762. It's possible that Baylor was aware of this colt, who arrived in America two years before his older brother; Fearnought was on the list of horses to inspect which he sent to his English agents. Nine-year-old Fearnought arrived in America in March of 1764 and stood at Baylor's Newmarket Plantantion, Caroline County, Virginia until his owner's death. He was then sold and stood three more seasons in southern Virginia, dying at 21 years of age in Greenville County the autumn of 1776. ****Fearnought proved the perfect prescription for the existing horse population and he nicked extremely well with the blood of his contemporary, John Randolph's (Old) Janus, another grandson of the Godolphin Arabian whose forte was quarter-mile runners. Fearnought injected much needed size, stamina and courage. Because of these same attributes, many of his sons were favored as battle chargers and as a result, lost as casualties during the American Revolutionary War, but it was not enough to put a dent in Fearnought's his long-range influence. His fee was eight pounds (ten to insure a live foal), compared to Janus, standing for four. Fearnought's leading sons included Symmes' Wildair, Apollo, Dandridge's Fearnought, Harris' Eclipse, King Herod, Matchless, Regulus, Whynot, and Hickman's Independence. A large number of his sons followed him to stud in Virginia, and Symmes' Wildair was a particularly successful stallion, siring Highflyer, Commutation, and Chanticleer (sire of Gracchus). None of Fearnought's sons carried the male line forward more than a generation or two, but Symmes' Wildair in particular appears in the pedigrees of some of the finest American families, largely through the exploits of his daughters as broodmares. [Boston's sire and dam both trace back in female line to daughters of Symmes' Wildair (4x5 in Boston's pedigree).] In this, he followed in the footsteps of his sire, since Fearnought's daughters made him a pre-eminent broodmare sire. http://www.nwta.com/wwwboard/1199.html "fearnought", the dictionary definitions are all much the same, quoting Captain Cook, but are not enough! I want to know how it was woven, spun and finished, what weight, fleeces used, and, while suitable for coats and portholes was it practicable for sailors' trousers to be of such heavy, long-piled fabric when shinning up rigging? Miller also wore "two seamans' jackets and a long thick greatcoat". : "Fearnaught" is a heavy woolen fabric which provides protection against inclement weather (hence, "fear nothing"). During the era of the America Revolution, this material is often mentioned in the context of seamen's jackets and overcoats. : It was also a popular name for horses, but I doubt that that's what this man was wearing. : : Kirstie Buckland asked if anyone could help her out with a description of "fearnought trowsers" that are mentioned in a quote she found while researching a paper and I told her that I thought someone in the Alliance will have the answer even if the quote is a bit after our period. : : They are mentioned in a description of seamen's clothing in some correspondence from Horatio Nelson's Captain Ralph Willett Miller in 1793. : : His...."attention was so wholly occupied.....that I absolutely walked overboard...." and was reclothed:- : : " My boat's crew rigged me afresh with...a pair of worsted stockings, a pair of fearnought Trowsers, two seaman's jackets, a long thick great coat and a hairy Cap, no shirt, and such was the dress that so nearly helped to drown me." : : (He was soon overboard again in an act of legitimate bravery.) : : (The Miller Papers- Kirstie Buckland, introduction by Sir Ludovic Kennedy. ed. Stephen Howarth, published by 1805 Club 1999.) http://www.history.navy.mil/branches/org12-7a.htm The U.S. Navy Shipwreck Inventory Project in the State of Maryland by Donald G. Shomette The geographic distribution of documented sites was found to be widely dispersed throughout Maryland. Three distinct geographic divisions of Maryland territorial waters, all recognized as composing the main physiographic components of the marine environment, have been employed: the Atlantic frontier; the Chesapeake Bay; and riverine and other tributary systems. A fourth, termed Contiguous Waters, was later added. Each of the above geo-graphic regions were temporally divided thus: (a) Colonial Period - 1631-1775; (b) Continental Navy and Confederation Period - 1776-1790; (c) Jeffersonian - 1790-181 1; (d) War of 1812 - 1812-1815; (e) Early Steam Age 1816-1860; (f) Civil War - 1861-1865; (g) Reconstruction - 1866-1897; (h) Spanish War/World War I 1898- 1918; (i) Post War - 1919-1940; 0) World War II - 1941-1945; and (k) Cold War - 1946-1986. A total of 21 vessel types were identified within Maryland waters, or in relevant contiguous areas. The following are the vessel types identified: Diesel auxiliary ships, armed military barges, transport and cargo barges, boats and scows, brigs, brigantines, diesel and sail cutters, ferry launches, frigates, diesel gunboats, sail and oar powered gunboats, steam powered gunboats, hydrographic survey vessels, ash lighters, freight lighters, schooners, sloops, submarines, row galleys, sailing transports, and yawls. (What's a yawl? The service of vessels was divided http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/pa/philadelphia/areahistory/watson0219. txt Watson's Annals of Philadelphia http://www.mdarchives.state.md.us/megafile/msa/speccol/sc2900/sc2908/000001/ 000018/html/index.html Muster Rolls and Other Records of Service of Maryland Troops in the American Revolution http://www.mdarchives.state.md.us/megafile/msa/speccol/sc2900/sc2908/html/vo lumes.html Archives of Maryland, All Volumes Maryland State Archives 350 Rowe Boulevard Annapolis, MD 21401 MD toll free (800) 235-4045 or (410) 260-6400 fax: (410) 974-2525 email: ref@mdarchives.state.md.us web site: http://mdsa.net

Hello, I found a notation in the Maryland Revolutionary archives that authorizes the building of six "barges". I'm assuming these are some form of small war vessels and not what we think of as a barge today. Any information anyone might give me about "barges" would be greatly appreciated. Especially one named "Fearnought". Thank you, Dan Perry

Last year I mentioned the NSDAR's 2001 publication African American and American Indian Patriots of the Revolutionary War as a source for this type of information. We have identified and documented some 3,000 names. Copies are available from the DAR Store for $12.00 postpaid (same address as the library, listed below). Eric G. Grundset Library Director DAR Library 1776 D St., N.W. Washington, DC 20006-5392 202-879-3313 egrundset@dar.org <mailto:egrundset@dar.org> -----Original Message----- From: Rhonda Houston [SMTP:rfhouston@mindspring.com] Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 12:29 PM To: AMERICAN-REVOLUTION-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [A-REV] Men of color serving in regiments with white men? Those regiments are mentioned within a number of these. (1) William Cooper Nell. The Colored Patriots of the American Revolution ... The colored patriots of the American Revolution : with sketches of several distinguished colored persons : to which is added a brief survey of the condition and prospects of colored Americans, by Nell, William Cooper. http://docsouth.unc.edu/nell/nell.html (2) (One of the top two, I'd say for information!) The Revolution's Black Soldiers ... equal footing with whites. The code ... of the fighting, and the ... of the American Revolution From Newspapers ... Cooper. The Colored Patriots of the ... http://americanrevolution.org/blk.html (3) Historic Context for the African American Military Experience: Preface, Foreword, and Introduction SF 298 Preface The Cultural Resources Research Center at the U.S. Army Construction Engineering Research Laboratories (USACERL) in Champaign, Illinois, has been involved for over a decade in all facets of cultural resource management and historic http://www.denix.osd.mil/denix/Public/ES-Programs/Conservation/Legacy/AAME/a ame1.html (4) Middle Passage and Enslavement (Pay particular attentioin to the "Secondary Print" area!! ... on blacks and whites throughout the Union ... C. The Colored Patriots of the American Revolution. New York ... Americans during fighting in the ... http://arkedu.state.ar.us/africanamerican/slavery.htm (5) Petersburg, Virginia Volunteers 1812-1813 Narrative history of the Petersburg, Virginia Volunteers in the War of 1812. Annotated with sources and other links. http://www.ls.net/~newriver/va/pete1812.htm Rhonda Houston ==== AMERICAN-REVOLUTION Mailing List ==== ============================== To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Cardi2@aol.com wrote; >I'm questioning something. I have seen the M804 films on the Rev. War. They >are an index. They only record the name of the veteran, regiment, where >from, etc. - a little bit of information. You still have to write to the >NARA to get the file. That sounds like M313 -- the index to the 1812 pensions. [or maybe M860 - the guide to M881, the compiled service records of RevWar soldiers?] There may be an index to M804, but it would seem to be redundant-- they are alphabetical already. [there is an M805 which has 'selected records' -- about 10 pages of what the clerk thought were most 'genealogically significant'. I'll just say that I've seen plenty of treasures after that page that says 'nonselected records'.]] > Now does Heritage Quest have the whole file, not just >the index? Yes. > Some files can run for 75 to 100 pages providing your guy was >an officer. Doesn't even have to be an officer. I've seen some real long ones from Privates or widows who were having a hard time proving their story, or were just plain loquacious. I'd say, on average the files are 20-30 pages. There are probably as many longer ones as shorter. [and so far the two guys I know are mine have been 10 & 16 pages.] > Does it also take in the Bounty Land Records and the man's >millitary record? Most of the BL Warrants are noted-- but they just list the #, the acreage, the date assigned, and the state the soldier served in. Sometimes some of those fields are blank. The closest I've seen to a 'service record' in any of the files is the soldier's original discharge & the pass that often accompanied them. [probably written on the back of the discharge] I might have seen an enlistment or commission in one file, but it was very faded & the guy wasn't mine, so I just made a note of it and went on. [Zebulon Butler, Col of 2d CT, wife Phebe, in PA in1831; last file on reel M804-439] Sometimes there is substantiation from an adjutant someplace in the mid 1800's saying they found, or didn't find, so-and-so on the rolls of some company. And I've seen declarations from old commanders, paymasters or their descendants which said 'I have the books of said company in my possession, and have checked the rolls. . . ' Most of the unit names, dates and places need to looked at as the recollections of old warriors. For the purposes of genealogy, they are perhaps more important than the 'real truth' --- but as history, to be taken with a grain of salt. >I would like it verified that the actual pension file is for sale by Heritage >Quest. Scepticism is good. I couldn't believe when I figured this out a few months ago that it wasn't just common knowledge that you could get the complete file so fast, for so little. When the files were only $10, it would have been a harder decision to make. Now it seems like a no-brainer to me. [Now if they'd just get the 1812 pensions filmed, I could have a real ball.] Jim

In a message dated 3/4/02 8:12:23 AM Pacific Standard Time, AMERICAN-REVOLUTION-D-request@rootsweb.com writes: I'm questioning something. I have seen the M804 films on the Rev. War. They are an index. They only record the name of the veteran, regiment, where from, etc. - a little bit of information. You still have to write to the NARA to get the file. Now does Heritage Quest have the whole file, not just the index? Some files can run for 75 to 100 pages providing your guy was an officer. Does it also take in the Bounty Land Records and the man's millitary record? I would like it verified that the actual pension file is for sale by Heritage Quest. Thank you, Annie << to Bobby Moss's book, "The Patriots at the Cowpens." His >pension application number, S30400, is referenced in the book. Where >do I write or call to obtain a copy of his application? The fastest, cheapest & most reliable method would be to order Microfilm from the series M804. The entire files have been filmed, though you don't always get all the pages when you send your $37 to NARA. The film can be rented for $3-4 through your library or local FHC--- or you buy it for about $25 [and have it within a week or 10 days] from Heritage Quest. Put M804 into their search engine at heritagequest.com and pick your film. The series is nearly 3000 rolls, and the men are listed alphabetically. There are three reels of Ellis's -- Samuel will be at; http://www2.heritagequest.com/hq/mf.asp?Z_id=M804-917 [In my opinion, the Diazzo film looks fine, and it is supposedly more archival than the Silver Halide.] You can rent the film for a month at a time through Heritage Quest, but you need to join to rent. [you could join HQ & rent all 3 ELLIS films for less than the price of the pension from NARA-- and be done reading them all before the folks at NARA were allowed to open your letter] Jim ______________________________ >>

Most of the 9th VA Regiment was captured at the Battle of Germantown Oct 4, 1777. Some of them then appear to spend the Winter at Valley Forge. Does anyone know what happened to the men that were not captured? What Regiment(s) were they reassigned? A Valley Forge web site: http://www.nps.gov/vafo/home.htm shows some men in the 9th VA that I suspect are really in the 13th VA. The 13th VA was redesignated the 9th VA in Sept. 1778 but this was after VF and I'm trying to sort out some of the officers in the 13th. Any details on this would be appreciated. Mark Allen

Many of these Original Prints you will want to print out/download. Collectors' heaven! http://loc.harpweek.com/LCPoliticalCartoons/IndexPeopleList.asp <A HREF="http://loc.harpweek.com/LCPoliticalCartoons/IndexPeopleList.asp"> HarpWeek | American Political Prints 1766-1876 | Names Index</A>

WHERE WOULD I GO TO TRY TO GET MORE INFO ON LAND WARRANTS AWARDED AMREV SOLDIERS.......... LAND WARRANT # 726 FOR LAND IN NC--- ANY INFO APPRECIATED! MICHELE

Jim Elbrecht <jelbrech@nycap.rr.com> wrote: << The fastest, cheapest & most reliable method would be to order Microfilm from the series M804. >> Thanks for the suggestion, Jim! I would much rather go that route than to trust my money and records to a civil servant! :-) I'm gonna check with my local library and see if they can get it in for me. I don't know which state might have the records on file because my Samuel Ellis moved from NC to Tennessee, on to Kentucky, then Missouri, and back to Kentucky where he died, so I have no idea where he was when he filed his application. I'd be better off trying to source it from the federal government records. Thanks again, Mack Smith

Thanks for suggesting the book, The Negro in the American Revolution. At this url you can get the index to the whole book. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail/-/books/0807846031/reader/9/r ef=lib_rd_TI01/104-6146512-0670339#reader-link If this does not come up for you, go to www.amazon.com and type the name of the book in "Books." On the book page, it will show the index as a sample, so click on it and all index pages will come up one after another, I believe. Dee.

(1) William Cooper Nell. The Colored Patriots of the American Revolution ... The colored patriots of the American Revolution : with sketches of several distinguished colored persons : to which is added a brief survey of the condition and prospects of colored Americans, by Nell, William Cooper. http://docsouth.unc.edu/nell/nell.html (2) (One of the top two, I'd say for information!) The Revolution's Black Soldiers ... equal footing with whites. The code ... of the fighting, and the ... of the American Revolution From Newspapers ... Cooper. The Colored Patriots of the ... http://americanrevolution.org/blk.html (3) Historic Context for the African American Military Experience: Preface, Foreword, and Introduction SF 298 Preface The Cultural Resources Research Center at the U.S. Army Construction Engineering Research Laboratories (USACERL) in Champaign, Illinois, has been involved for over a decade in all facets of cultural resource management and historic http://www.denix.osd.mil/denix/Public/ES-Programs/Conservation/Legacy/AAME/a ame1.html (4) Middle Passage and Enslavement (Pay particular attentioin to the "Secondary Print" area!! ... on blacks and whites throughout the Union ... C. The Colored Patriots of the American Revolution. New York ... Americans during fighting in the ... http://arkedu.state.ar.us/africanamerican/slavery.htm (5) Petersburg, Virginia Volunteers 1812-1813 Narrative history of the Petersburg, Virginia Volunteers in the War of 1812. Annotated with sources and other links. http://www.ls.net/~newriver/va/pete1812.htm Rhonda Houston

Dear Jan, Thanks for doing the research to include the below sites. This indeed does go to my question as to men of color serving in regiments with white men, as well as the interesting history surrounding the issue of blacks in the military in the American Revolution. I indeed do thank you so much. Warmest regards, Dee Shenandoah Valley, VA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jan Heiling" <janheil@attbi.com> To: "Dee" <deedovey@rica.net> Cc: <AMERICAN-REVOLUTION-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: March 03, 2002 8:55 PM Subject: Re: [A-REV] Men of color serving in regiments with white men? Hi Dee, Having seen references somewhere in the past, I did a google.com search and this website offers a list of source material references which may address all your questions: http://sjcpl.lib.in.us/homepage/LocalHist/revwar.html Three References - LH GEN REF 973.315 N324c Nell, William C. The Colored Patriots of the American Revolution. Arno Press. 1968. 396 p. LH GEN 973.3 N213b National Portrait Gallery. The Black Presence in the Era of the American Revolution, 1770 - 1800. National Portrait Gallery. 1973. 68 p. LH GEN REF 973.3 B835b Greene, Robert Ewell Black Courage, 1775 - 1783. Documentation of Black Participation in the American Revolution. Daughters of the American Revolution. 1984. 141 p. Also - http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/AFRICANAMER-GEN/2000-01/0948816647 Perhaps there is someone also looking in PA on this list which can offer you some sources to look at. Within the first page displayed of list messages, or at this address: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/AFRICANAMER-GEN/2000-01/0948816647 someone has posted a rather large list of NC men. Also - http://americanrevolution.org/blk.html An interesting site, an interesting article ... and well worth the read. Hope these are helpful for you, Jan Dee wrote: > Regarding the pensioner serving in 1777 and 1778 Redstone, Fayette, PA and once > in Bladensburg, MD, 1781, since I have the regiment or Captain that he served > under, I would think it would be possible to find out if persons of color served > with white men. However, does anyone know if this was the case then? Or was it > strictly all black regiment/companies? > > Thanks AGAIN. > > Dee. > > ==== AMERICAN-REVOLUTION Mailing List ==== > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

There is a book that was published by the University of North Carolina (Press) and the title is "The Negro in the American Revolution" by Benjamin Quarles, which contains a wonderful bibliographical reference list and index. This book lists most Revolutionary War Rolls and documents from most states for those known blacks who were involved with and participated in the Rev War and those Blacks who participated with the British. these references are also mentioned. Archive references used are noted with edition used and volume. The ISBN # 0807846031 Rhonda Houston ------------------------------------------------------------------- I believe there was a totally black regiment in the Revolutionary War in one of the New England states. Walker who used to be the Archivist at the Library of Congress wrote a book about this regiment. I heard him speak many years ago about them. I would also check the NSDAR as many of the soldiers and others who gave service in that War, were black. (www.dar.org). Blacks have always tried to help their country. There were black regiments in all the wars, including the famous Buffalo Soldiers. Annie

SmokyMtn43@aol.com wrote: > My ancestor, Samuel Ellis, was wounded at the Battle of the Cowpens, >according to Bobby Moss's book, "The Patriots at the Cowpens." His >pension application number, S30400, is referenced in the book. Where >do I write or call to obtain a copy of his application? The fastest, cheapest & most reliable method would be to order Microfilm from the series M804. The entire files have been filmed, though you don't always get all the pages when you send your $37 to NARA. The film can be rented for $3-4 through your library or local FHC--- or you buy it for about $25 [and have it within a week or 10 days] from Heritage Quest. Put M804 into their search engine at heritagequest.com and pick your film. The series is nearly 3000 rolls, and the men are listed alphabetically. There are three reels of Ellis's -- Samuel will be at; http://www2.heritagequest.com/hq/mf.asp?Z_id=M804-917 [In my opinion, the Diazzo film looks fine, and it is supposedly more archival than the Silver Halide.] You can rent the film for a month at a time through Heritage Quest, but you need to join to rent. [you could join HQ & rent all 3 ELLIS films for less than the price of the pension from NARA-- and be done reading them all before the folks at NARA were allowed to open your letter] Jim

I believe there was a totally black regiment in the Revolutionary War in one of the New England states. Walker who used to be the Archivist at the Library of Congress wrote a book about this regiment. I heard him speak many years ago about them. I would also check the NSDAR as many of the soldiers and others who gave service in that War, were black. (www.dar.org). Blacks have always tried to help their country. There were black regiments in all the wars, including the famous Buffalo Soldiers. Annie