And now we also have inurnment. ----- Original Message ----- From: alt-genealogy-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:alt-genealogy-request@rootsweb.com> To: alt-genealogy@rootsweb.com<mailto:alt-genealogy@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 8:40 AM Subject: ALT-GENEALOGY Digest, Vol 2, Issue 585 Today's Topics: 1. Re: Definition "interment" (Unsprung) 2. Re: Definition "interment" (Hugh Watkins) 3. Estranged, dysfunctional family (Unsprung) 4. Re: Estranged, dysfunctional family (Hugh Watkins) 5. Re: New at this - HELP! (Unsprung) 6. Dumb newsgroup searching question (Unsprung) 7. Re: Dumb newsgroup searching question (Hugh Watkins) 8. Re: help w/name on census please (Michelle, Sabrina's Mom) 9. Lookup please, Foy family (Bazjaq) 10. Re: Dumb newsgroup searching question (Lesley Robertson) 11. Re: Definition "interment" (singhals) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 04:17:15 -0500 From: "Unsprung" <peterblood666@joimail.com<mailto:peterblood666@joimail.com>> Subject: Re: Definition "interment" To: alt-genealogy@rootsweb.com<mailto:alt-genealogy@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <13mf416r5ulsg12@corp.supernews.com<mailto:13mf416r5ulsg12@corp.supernewscom>> The DC was not "certified" per se but was copy of the the original record. It included a number of blanks to fill in including: Date of death Place of death Date of interment Place of interment Name of cemetery For the DC in question, all of the above was filled out except name of cemetery. Peter "Terry" <Terry234@hotmail.com<mailto:Terry234@hotmail.com>> wrote in message news:1swmujt7jbx6i$.1hhaiatwuhzow.dlg@40tude.net<news:1swmujt7jbx6i$.1hhaiatwuhzow.dlg@40tude.net>... > On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 15:23:26 GMT, Scruffy McScruffovitch wrote: > >> The death certificate is generally filled out a 1 - 3 days after the >> death >> and sometimes later if an involved autopsy is required. By that time, >> the >> family has made the arrangements, and they know where the body will be >> intered. Also, people often make arrangements, buy burial plots, etc >> before they croak, or they have family plots. When my dad passed in >> 2005, >> all his arrangements were already made. All we had to do is fill out >> the >> death cert information, the Coroner signed it, and sent it to the state >> for >> whatever processing they do. We got certified copies in about a month. > > Much the same in UK - however did the certified copy show the place of > interment? - this is what I found interesting in the original post. > > In UK, although of course folks do make prior arrangements, you don't know > from the death certificate whether the deceased was buried or cremated and > certainly not where. > > Didn't mean to be picky on the interment vs. internment but didn't want to > confuse the OP! > -- > Terry ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 10:30:38 +0100 From: Hugh Watkins <hugh.watkins@gmail.com<mailto:hugh.watkins@gmail.com>> Subject: Re: Definition "interment" To: alt-genealogy@rootsweb.com<mailto:alt-genealogy@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <5spi9vF15v8heU2@mid.individual.net<mailto:5spi9vF15v8heU2@mid.individualnet>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Henry Brownlee wrote: > "Terry" <Terry234@hotmail.com<mailto:Terry234@hotmail.com>> wrote in message > news:1swmujt7jbx6i$.1hhaiatwuhzow.dlg@40tude.net<news:1swmujt7jbx6i$.1hhaiatwuhzow.dlg@40tude.net>... > | On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 15:23:26 GMT, Scruffy McScruffovitch wrote: > | > | > The death certificate is generally filled out a 1 - 3 days after the > death > | > and sometimes later if an involved autopsy is required. By that time, > the > | > family has made the arrangements, and they know where the body will be > | > intered. Also, people often make arrangements, buy burial plots, etc > | > before they croak, or they have family plots. When my dad passed in > 2005, > | > all his arrangements were already made. All we had to do is fill out > the > | > death cert information, the Coroner signed it, and sent it to the state > for > | > whatever processing they do. We got certified copies in about a month. > | > | Much the same in UK - however did the certified copy show the place of > | interment? - this is what I found interesting in the original post. > | > | In UK, although of course folks do make prior arrangements, you don't know > | from the death certificate whether the deceased was buried or cremated and > | certainly not where. > | > | Didn't mean to be picky on the interment vs. internment but didn't want to > | confuse the OP! > | -- > | Terry > > The OP had "Interment" in the subject line and a typo "intenment" in the > body of the message. Internment was not mentioned until McScuff made > a typo on interment in his reply. But everybody is correct (sans typos) - > interment is burial and internment is confinement. > > I can't speak for other parts of the U.S., but it is not unusual in our area > for a death certificate to be issued days or even weeks after the State is > notified of the person's death (and place of interment in most cases.) > Funeral parlors usually handle that chore these days, but in days of yore, > usually a relative or physican (or both) filled out the necessary forms. So > the place of interment (actually called burial on our form) is usually shown > on the certificate - it is likely only the name of the community, but > sometimes the name of the graveyard is given. > > Birth records are similar - certificates issued several days, even weeks, > after the date of birth. These days the hospitals do the paperwork. In the > past, some births never got reported to the Vital Statistics people - the > midwife or the family may not have been literate. I have a brother-in-law > born in 1920 who did not have his birth registered. He had to jump through > hoops to obtain a birth certificate before joining the U. S. Army during > WWII. Affidavits from parents, witnesses, that sort of thing. But he finally > got the BC. In UK burial is not permitted until a certificate is issued with the consent of the coroner if for example a hospital death Hugh W -- For genealogy and help with family and local history in Bristol and district http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Brycgstow/<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Brycgstow/> http://snaps4.blogspot.com/<http://snaps4.blogspot.com/> photographs and walks GENEALOGE http://hughw36.blogspot.com/<http://hughw36.blogspot.com/> MAIN BLOG ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 04:38:59 -0500 From: "Unsprung" <peterblood666@joimail.com<mailto:peterblood666@joimail.com>> Subject: Estranged, dysfunctional family To: alt-genealogy@rootsweb.com<mailto:alt-genealogy@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <13mf59p2bs9bs80@corp.supernews.com<mailto:13mf59p2bs9bs80@corp.supernewscom>> My wife has a wonderfully dysfunctional family in her tree. A 17 year old gal married her 25 year old uncle in 1885 VT when she is six months pregnant. I do not know if the child was his so he could be either a saint or a villain. If it was his, I do not know if she was willing or it was rape. Anyway, they lived together for 25 years. I do not know if it was a "happy" marriage, but she had 11 more kids by him. Then, after 25 years of marriage, she takes all the kids but the oldest boy and moves to NH where she dies of uterine cancer 5 years later in 1915 after 2 years of illness. The oldest son stays with the father to work the farm in VT. The husband's obit and social security applications of the children attribute several incorrect maiden names to the mother (in fact, her maiden name was CAREY just like her uncle/husband). I suspect that the husband was trying to conceal a family secret. The children my have been doing the same or maybe no one ever told them. Where might I go to dig up more dirt on this family? For instance, did they have restraining orders in 1910, domestic violence reports, bankruptcy or debt problems, and where would I look for such info? What else may be on record for a family like thus? Peter ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 10:40:56 +0100 From: Hugh Watkins <hugh.watkins@gmail.com<mailto:hugh.watkins@gmail.com>> Subject: Re: Estranged, dysfunctional family To: alt-genealogy@rootsweb.com<mailto:alt-genealogy@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <5spit9F1a42gfU2@mid.individual.net<mailto:5spit9F1a42gfU2@mid.individualnet>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Unsprung wrote: > My wife has a wonderfully dysfunctional family in her tree. A 17 year old > gal married her 25 year old uncle in 1885 VT when she is six months > pregnant. I do not know if the child was his so he could be either a saint > or a villain. If it was his, I do not know if she was willing or it was > rape. Anyway, they lived together for 25 years. I do not know if it was a > "happy" marriage, but she had 11 more kids by him. Then, after 25 years of > marriage, she takes all the kids but the oldest boy and moves to NH where > she dies of uterine cancer 5 years later in 1915 after 2 years of illness. > The oldest son stays with the father to work the farm in VT. The husband's > obit and social security applications of the children attribute several > incorrect maiden names to the mother (in fact, her maiden name was CAREY > just like her uncle/husband). I suspect that the husband was trying to > conceal a family secret. The children my have been doing the same or maybe > no one ever told them. > > Where might I go to dig up more dirt on this family? For instance, did they > have restraining orders in 1910, domestic violence reports, bankruptcy or > debt problems, and where would I look for such info? What else may be on > record for a family like thus? police - and church or the courts read the local laws Hugh W -- For genealogy and help with family and local history in Bristol and district http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Brycgstow/<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Brycgstow/> http://snaps4.blogspot.com/<http://snaps4.blogspot.com/> photographs and walks GENEALOGE http://hughw36.blogspot.com/<http://hughw36.blogspot.com/> MAIN BLOG ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 05:03:56 -0500 From: "Unsprung" <peterblood666@joimail.com<mailto:peterblood666@joimail.com>> Subject: Re: New at this - HELP! To: alt-genealogy@rootsweb.com<mailto:alt-genealogy@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <13mf6ok90uncr59@corp.supernews.com<mailto:13mf6ok90uncr59@corp.supernewscom>> Jasper Ross' social secuirty number was 575-01-8863. How dis I know? It's public knowledge! For recent deaths, always use the SSDI (http://ssdi.rootsweb.com/<http://ssdi.rootsweb.com/>). Plug in Jasper and you will see that you get a hit. Do not stop there. With the information off the SSDI, you can send a request to the SSA for a copy of the original appilcation form (they raised the cost from $17 to to $35 now I think). His application will provide such info as date of birth, occupation, and name of parents. If you are just starting out, get as many birth, death, and marriage records as possible. This is a good site: http://www.vitalrec.com/<http://www.vitalrec.com/> Most states keeps records back to maybe 1885, then county anf town records might take you back another 30 years (except in new England where they go back to the 1640s). Before that, you need to go to church records. Are you familiar with the library in Salt Lake (world's largets genealogical library)? From your local FHC, you can borrow anything from Salt Lake for <$3.50 and you do not need to be Mormon. See what is there using this http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp<http://wwwfamilysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHLC/frameset_fhlc.asp> See where your nearest FHC is uysing this: http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHC/frameset_fhc.asp<http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/FHC/frameset_fhc.asp> Also, very imporatant, interview the oldest members of your family before they die. http://genealogy.about.com/library/authors/ucbishop3a.htm<http://genealogy.about.com/library/authors/ucbishop3a.htm> http://genealogy.about.com/cs/oralhistory/a/interview.htm<http://genealogy.about.com/cs/oralhistory/a/interview.htm> Peter <iuki@hotmail.com<mailto:iuki@hotmail.com>> wrote in message news:6cdf6dfe-00c0-4912-83ec-44c5592808c2@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com<news:6cdf6dfe-00c0-4912-83ec-44c5592808c2@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com>... >I just subscribed to ancestry.com and have reached a brick wall. > > I discovered by paternal grandfather (Jasper Bennett Ross) was born 28 > Apr 1884, in Puerto Rico. He died 13 Jan 1972, in Hawaii. One of the > documents he completed showed that his father (Fredrick Bennett Ross) > was born in "Europe," and his mother (Josephine Rivera Villahermoza) > was born in Puerto Rico. > > Despite searching everywhere, I cannot find any additional > information. on my grandfather nor his parents. > > Can anyone point me in the right direction? > > Many, many thanks in advance. > > iuki ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 05:18:42 -0500 From: "Unsprung" <peterblood666@joimail.com<mailto:peterblood666@joimail.com>> Subject: Dumb newsgroup searching question To: alt-genealogy@rootsweb.com<mailto:alt-genealogy@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <13mf7ka11kidv25@corp.supernews.com<mailto:13mf7ka11kidv25@corp.supernewscom>> I am old to genealogy but new to newsgroups. I want to identify other newsgroups of interest. If I plug "genealogy" or "poland" into Outlook Express' newsgroups search engine, I really do not get that many hits. Are there better newsgroup search engines out there? ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 12:21:21 +0100 From: Hugh Watkins <hugh.watkins@gmail.com<mailto:hugh.watkins@gmail.com>> Subject: Re: Dumb newsgroup searching question To: alt-genealogy@rootsweb.com<mailto:alt-genealogy@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <5spophF1a7r9sU1@mid.individual.net<mailto:5spophF1a7r9sU1@mid.individualnet>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Unsprung wrote: > I am old to genealogy but new to newsgroups. I want to identify other > newsgroups of interest. If I plug "genealogy" or "poland" into Outlook > Express' newsgroups search engine, I really do not get that many hits. Are > there better newsgroup search engines out there? you are using Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com<http://www.supernews.com/> try adding genea as a search to get variaitons in spelling far more groups on rootsweb.com mailing lists and boards poland use pl. http://www.usenet.pl<http://www.usenet.pl/> in polish of course pl.soc.genealogia http://www.google.com/search?q=pl.soc.genealogia<http://www.google.com/search?q=pl.soc.genealogia> post in english too http://groups.google.com/group/pl.soc.genealogia/topics<http://groups.google.com/group/pl.soc.genealogia/topics> enjoy Hugh W -- For genealogy and help with family and local history in Bristol and district http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Brycgstow/<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Brycgstow/> http://snaps4.blogspot.com/<http://snaps4.blogspot.com/> photographs and walks GENEALOGE http://hughw36.blogspot.com/<http://hughw36.blogspot.com/> MAIN BLOG ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 11:26:08 GMT From: "Michelle, Sabrina's Mom" <michelles.other.email@nospamgmail.com<mailto:michelles.other.email@nospamgmail.com>> Subject: Re: help w/name on census please To: alt-genealogy@rootsweb.com<mailto:alt-genealogy@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <k7O9j.5530$Xh1.4590@trndny03<mailto:k7O9j.5530$Xh1.4590@trndny03>> "Mark Roy" <xxx@comcast.net<mailto:xxx@comcast.net>> wrote in message news:1Lidne7gq5bW9vnanZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@comcast.com<news:1Lidne7gq5bW9vnanZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@comcast.com>... > Mark Roy wrote: >> Michelle, Sabrina's Mom wrote: >>> "Michelle, Sabrina's Mom" <michelles.other.email@nospamgmail.com<mailto:michelles.other.email@nospamgmail.com>> wrote >>> in message news:9Lw8j.5480$W27.2939@trndny09<news:9Lw8j.5480$W27.2939@trndny09>... >>>> Could someone take a look at line 6. It's a female name I believe. Last >>>> name looks like Heardy. >>>> http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/1851_pdf/e093/e002310678.pdf<http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/1851_pdf/e093/e002310678.pdf> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Michelle >>> or maybe the last name is Heardif? Fleardif? >>> >> >> You may consider Tardif. With all the flourishes on that first letter, it >> could be a T. Tardif is a fairly common Franco surname, Heardif is not. > > Okay, probably not. But it may be Hardy, which seems to be common in Cap > Santé registers in that time period. I don't see any Hardifs there. I thought of Hardy too. Thanks : ) ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 11:58:11 GMT From: "Bazjaq" <baz.jaq@ntlworld.com<mailto:baz.jaq@ntlworld.com>> Subject: Lookup please, Foy family To: alt-genealogy@rootsweb.com<mailto:alt-genealogy@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <nBO9j.17103$wD5.1723@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net<mailto:nBO9j.17103$wD5.1723@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>> I believe John Foy b.1844c, his wife Sarah McCallum b.1846c both born in Ireland, m. 10/8/1865 and lived in Glasgow, Scotland, along with Agnes b.13/4/1866 their daughter, emigrated to America about 1872. I may have found them living in Windham, Connecticut with 3 more children on the 1881 census and some of them buried in St Joseph,s cemetery in that town. To verify that this is the correct family, would some kind soul check for some clues for me! Using the CastleGarden website I have found an Agnes aged 6 on the ship 'Australia' on 23/5/1872 destination 7328? but can't find her parents. John,s parents are Patrick Foy and Mary Cavanagh. Sarah,s are Joseph McCallum and Catherine Russell. I have also posted this on Rootsweb. Thankyou for your time. Bazjaq -- www.bazjaq.tribalpages.com<http://www.bazjaq.tribalpages.com/> password = hamishdog ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 13:27:03 +0100 From: "Lesley Robertson" <l.a.robertson@tnw.tudelft.nl<mailto:l.a.robertson@tnw.tudelft.nl>> Subject: Re: Dumb newsgroup searching question To: alt-genealogy@rootsweb.com<mailto:alt-genealogy@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <3bb39$4767bc99$83b4502b$11903@news1.tudelft.nl<mailto:3bb39$4767bc99$83b4502b$11903@news1.tudelft.nl>> "Unsprung" <peterblood666@joimail.com<mailto:peterblood666@joimail.com>> wrote in message news:13mf7ka11kidv25@corp.supernews.com<news:13mf7ka11kidv25@corp.supernews.com>... >I am old to genealogy but new to newsgroups. I want to identify other >newsgroups of interest. If I plug "genealogy" or "poland" into Outlook >Express' newsgroups search engine, I really do not get that many hits. Are >there better newsgroup search engines out there? If you specifically want newsgroups, then alt.genealogy and the groups under the soc.genealogy.* are the best. However, for more specific stuff, there's hordes of mailing lists. For example,. see the lists on Rootsweb.http://lists.rootsweb.com/ Lesley Robertson ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 09:39:58 -0500 From: singhals <singhals@erols.com<mailto:singhals@erols.com>> Subject: Re: Definition "interment" To: alt-genealogy@rootsweb.com<mailto:alt-genealogy@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <_L6dnQfsKOogRvranZ2dnUVZ_hKdnZ2d@rcn.net<mailto:_L6dnQfsKOogRvranZ2dnUVZ_hKdnZ2d@rcn.net>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed D. Stussy wrote: > "Terry" <Terry234@hotmail.com<mailto:Terry234@hotmail.com>> wrote in message > news:15zftzg0inbtw$.1axhig7emz66g.dlg@40tude.net<news:15zftzg0inbtw$.1axhig7emz66g.dlg@40tude.net>... > >>On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 09:43:01 -0500, Scruffy McScruffovitch wrote: >> >> >>>Place of internment is the same as place of burial >>> >>>"Unsprung" <peterblood666@joimail.com<mailto:peterblood666@joimail.com>> wrote in message >>>news:13mcklca1r5if85@corp.supernews.com... >>> >>>>What does "place of intenment" mean on a death certificate. This person >>>>died in NH but the place of interment was VT. The cemetery is not > > listed. > >>>>Peter >>>> >> >>internment is an entirely different thing and has nothing to do with >>burial: >> >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment > > > Actually, in some places, they literally are the same thing - e.g. "above > ground burials" near New Orleans, LA (USA) - or any other place where a > Masoleum is used as the final resting place on a regular basis. Those > instances are both "burial" and confinement! > > _Strictly_ for the record: New Orleans isn't the only place the above ground burials happen; it's quite common all over South Louisiana, because the water-table is less than 6-ft underground. (g) New Orelans cemeteries are the best-known of the places because New Orleans is better known than Houma, say. Cheryl End of ALT-GENEALOGY Digest, Vol 2, Issue 585 *********************************************