On Wed, 15 Jun 2011 05:12:48 +0200, Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote: >On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 11:01:47 +0200, "Lesley Robertson" ><l.a.robertson@tnw.tudelft.nl> wrote: > >> >>"Steve Hayes" <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote in message >>news:7nndv6leap49502pmenkjqvqh2s1hut5u8@4ax.com... >>> >>> So what is a Stray? This is a person who is described in a record as being >>> from, or connected with, a place outside the area in which they normally >>> lived >>> or were born. >>> >> >>But how far away does "outside" mean? The next parish? The next county? And >>how long is 'normally lived"? I have ag labs in my databases who seemed to >>specialise in having each of their large number of kids in a new parish.... > >The Cambridge strays project seem to regard it as meaning "out of county" >which, here in South Africa, and in Canada, one might regard as "out of >province, and in Oz and the US they might regard as "out of state" and so on >for other places. > Not necessarily an equivalent comparison as "out of county" is usually still within the same jurisdiction unlike "out of province/state". Those are more comparable to "out of country" within the UK (England/Scotland/[Northern] Ireland). One inference in "Cambridge strays" is "not in Cambridge" although if it deals with the county then it should "Cambridgeshire strays" or to avoid doubt "strays from/in Cambridgeshire" as strays indexes can IME deal with either case. In practice the manner of being "stray" ought to be easily identifiable in a short descriptive title as in the last example above unlike in the shorter "Cambridge strays". >Of course in places close to the borders it might not apply. If you couldn't >find someone in Newcastle (NBL) you ought to think of looking in Gateshead, >and in Kansas City (Missouri) and Kansas City (Kansas) and so on. So the exact >limits of what is included might vary in borderline (in both senses of the >word) cases. > >Here are some from my files that I would count as strays. These are all taken >from one source: death notices in deceased estate (probate) files, but you >could find trhe same kind of thing in other sources as well. > > >Ainscough, John Died: 28 Aug 1914 > RSA, TVL, Standerton > Born: England, Blackrod, >Anderton, Arthur Goldthorpe Died: 16 Feb 1926 > Newcastle, Natal > Born: Port St Johns, Transkei, Cape, >Bagot, Walter Lewis Died: 26 May 1927 > RSA, TVL, Johannesburg, Parktown > Born: England, >Barrett, Beatrice Elizabeth Died: 22 Jun 1959 > Nongoma, Zululand, Natal > Born: Shropshire, England, >Beningfield, Annie Theresa Died: 27 Apr 1950 > Kokstad, Mount Currie, Cape > Born: Greytown, Natal, 13 Oct 1867 >Blew, Thomas Harry Died: 28 May 1946 > Marshlands, Mooi River, Natal > Born: England, >Boyce, Constance Lilian Kingwill Died: 23 Apr 1970 > Nelspruit > Born: Aberdeen, CP, 22 Sep 1880 >Brown, Joseph Ellis Died: 16 Apr 1919 > Kinnoull, Ridge Road, Durban > Born: Atwell, Cambs, England, >Burnard, James Fry Leslie Died: 17 Feb 1945 > Italy > Born: Claremont, Cape, South Africa, >Cathcart, Frederick John Died: 28 Feb 1970 > Hillcrest, Natal > Born: Woolich, England (Woolwich), 24 Jul 1888 >Cherrington, Richard Layton Died: 2 Sep 1943 > off the shores of Italy > Born: Uitenhage, >Chester, Mary Alice Died: 22 Oct 1948 > 37 Howard Avenue, Durban > Born: England, 1871 >Cobban, Robert McLean Died: 2 Nov 1957 > Pietermaritzburg > Born: Johannesburg, >Cottam, John Bagot Died: 10 Aug 1909 > at residence > Born: Salford, England, >Cottam, William Hutchinson Died: 30 Nov 1946 > Maranatha, Talana Road, Calremont, Cape > Born: England, >Crawley, Leslie Henry Died: 27 May 1966 > 15 Fourth Avenue, Greyville, Durban > Born: Harrismith, >Crighton, Martha Died: 4 Sep 1924 > Royal Hotel, Durban > Born: Capetown, >Crighton, William Donald Died: 8 Dec 1966 > Provincial Hospital, Port Shepstone > Born: Cape Town, >Davis, Oliver Died: 26 Dec 1927 > Pook's Hill, Helpmekaar Dist > Born: Abingdon, Berks, England, >De Beer, Johannes Johan Martin Enslin de Beer Died: 14 Mar 1974 > Ceres W/s 1001 Jacob Mare Straat 229 > Born: Standerton, 20 May 1905 >Decker, Jessie Died: 26 Sep 1937 > RSA, TVL, Standerton > Born: RSA, Eastern Cape, East London, >Deeks, Herbert Hall Died: 16 Jul 1949 > Mountain View Guest Farm, PO Hennops River > Born: Norwich, England, >Devantier, Ivan Melvin Died: 6 Apr 1968 > Apple Orchard Dist, Vereeniging > Born: King William's Town, 11 Jul 1927 >Devantier, Mary Caroline Theresa Died: 10 Jul 1956 > 37 Johannes Street, Troyeville, Johannesburg > Born: Queenstown, >Devantier, Philip Cecil Died: 4 Nov 1964 > 187 Kitchener Ave, Kensington, Jhb > Born: King William's Town, South Africa, >Ellis, Arthur Joseph Died: 21 Oct 1938 > Durban > Born: Tasmania, 1866 >Falconer, Robert Fraser Died: 13 Mar 1964 > Far East Rand Hospital, Springs > Born: Nairn, Scotland, >Falconer, Winnie Amelia Died: 20 Jun 1973 > Kempton Park > Born: Queenstown, 19 Nov 1888 >Falkenberg, Albert Eric Died: 27 Apr 1938 > RSA, TVL, Brakpan > Born: Cape Province, >Falkenberg, Friedrich Heinrich Died: 23 Apr 1901 > Farm Glenred, Dist Vryburg > Born: in Germany, >Fissler, Elizabeth Anne Died: 19 Nov 1936 > Pretoria > Born: Germany, >Foster, Thomas Died: 11 Aug 1903 > Stainton, Ixopo, Natal > Born: England, >Francis, Gladys Lilian Died: 11 Mar 1968 > Durban > Born: Johannesburg, 29 Jul 1894 >Fraser, James Herbert Died: 24 Jan 1930 > Zeekoewater, Witbank > Born: Grahamstown, >Green, Isabella Died: 1 Sep 1853 > 9 Church Square, Graaff Reinet > Born: Cockermouth, Cumberland, England, >Green, Mary Elizabeth Died: 18 APR 1952 > RSA, TVL, Johannesburg, Florence N. > Born: Nr, Omaruru, SWA, Nov 1865 >Greenaway, Edward William Isaac Died: 28 Feb 1972 > RSA, TVL, Johannesburg, Kensington > Born: RSA, Natal, Newcastle, 7 Jan 1920 >Greenaway, Jane Died: 13 Feb 1913 > Pietermaritzburg, Natal > Born: Kilkampton, Cornwall, England, >Greenaway, Richard Henry William Died: 12 Feb 1904 > Verulam, Alexandra county, Natal > Born: Cathcart, East London (sic), >Growden, Joseph Died: 20 Sep 1920 > RSA, TVL, Johannesburg, Kensington > Born: ENG, Cornwall, >Growdon, Florence Died: 8 Jan 1926 > 9 Symond Street, Kroonstad > Born: Cathcart, >Growdon, George Frederick Died: 20-10-1954 > Durban > Born: East London, >Harris, Richard Vause Died: 21 Jun 1969 > Johannesburg > Born: Durban, 16 Aug 1930 >Hart-Davis, Geoffrey Charles Died: 9 Dec 1941 > on active service betwee Sollum & Bandia > Born: Natal, >Haupt, Elizabeth Jacoba Died: 15 Jan 1969 > Vanderbijlpark > Born: Paarl, 2 Jul 1884 >Herbert, Adelaide Died: 10 Aug 1909 > 268 Florida Road, Durban > Born: Salford, Manchester, England, >Hickman, Annie Louisa Devereux Died: 13 Jun 1951 > Arcadia Nursing Home, Pretoira > Born: Durban, >Hickman, Helena Alberhta de Villiers Died: 30 May 1957 > Greytown Hospital, Greytown > Born: Rivier Zonder End, Cape, South Africa, 14 Jul 1900 >Hickman, Mona Preston Died: 24 Jun 1960 > Lady Dudley Nursing Home, Johannesburg > Born: Queenstown, >Hill, Elaine Died: 2 Mar 1953 > National Road, Newcastle > Born: Worcester, Cape, 28 Dec 1921 >Holland, Winifred Died: 2 Aug 1936 > General Hospital, Johannesburg > Born: Adelaide, Cape, >Hurst, Edwin Henry Died: 13 Mar 1961 > Kero Court, Johannesburg > Born: England, >Isted, Agnes Maude Died: 9 Oct 1968 > Durban > Born: Unknown, 4 Aug 1852 >King, Anne Lindsay Died: 23 NOV 1958 > RSA, TVL, Pretoria, 282 Preller St > Born: ENG, CUL, Windermere, 1889 >Koch, Constance Lilian Kingwill Died: 23 Apr 1970 > Nelspruit Hospital > Born: Willowmore, Cape, 22 Sep 1880 >Koch, Minnie Died: 2 Feb 1945 > Nelspoort Hospital, Beaufort West Distric > Born: Rietbron, Willowmore, >Koch, Minnie Florence Died: 1 Feb 1937 > Far East Rand Hospital, Springs > Born: Uitenhage, Capew, Abt Nov 1891 >Large, William George Died: 11 Jul 1916 > France > Born: Manderston Kent, England, > >> >>I think that strays indexes are wonderful things, and I'm building indexes >>of Whitsome & Hilton (BEW) strays myself. Because these indexes are for a >>limited area (one parish) and my own use, I can afford to be fairly loose >>with my definition of "stray" but it all got out of hand until I limited the >>definition to people who moved away from their birth/baptism parish(which >>means that every child in some families is regarded as a stray from a >>different parish to its siblings > >That too, though I wouldn't count adjacent or nearby parishes as strays for >most purposes. > >The main point is that if someone died far away from the place where they were >born or lived, a strays index can alert you about the possibility of finding >records in different places. > >It works both ways, too. > >Someone in South Africa looking for Adelaide Herbert: > >Herbert, Adelaide Died: 10 Aug 1909 > 268 Florida Road, Durban > Born: Salford, Manchester, England, > >knowing that she was born in Salford, could then look further in English >censuses. > >Someone in the UK, wondering why her death record isn't (for example) in >FreeBMD, would know to look in records of deaths in Durban. > > > > > > >> >>You are never going to satisfy everyone, but it's still worth doing. I think >>that you should decide on a definition that suits you (out of parish, out of >>county, or whatever), state it clearly on page 1, together with any other >>ground rules you need to make the thing manageable, and stick to them. >> >>Lesley Robertson >>