Hi Stephan, Do you know there are DITTMANs in Deutsch Zerne, Hungary? Notice they come from Mehadia. If these are your relatives, you may want to join the DVHH email list. 1954 DITTMANN Anton * Mehadia + vor 1872 vh DIMI Anna * Mehadia + vor 1872 1. Karl * e 1847 Mehadia <1955> 1955 DITTMANN Karl <1954.1>, Werschetz, S.v. D. Anton und DIMI Anna * e 1847 Mehadia vh K 09.05.1872 DZ (ledig, ledig, TZ Johann Schulz, Andreas Janz) SCHULZ Carolina <9917.4>, T.v. S. Nikolaus und BERNARD Magdalena * e 1848 Lazarfeld Fran Matkovich -----Original Message----- From: alsace-lorraine-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:alsace-lorraine-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Stephan Wall Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 11:00 PM To: alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [A-L] Another German ? Record--Lost in Translation--Johannes Leman (sic) This is all very interesting. I had a great grandmother that named Margertha Dittmann. I have never been able to locate where she was from. (most likely somewhere in Pfalz Germany)Etienne's comments have given me a new lead to pursue. Maybe the answer lies in her name?   Thanks Stephan ________________________________ From: Etienne Herrbach <etienne.herrbach@wanadoo.fr> To: alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 2:46 AM Subject: Re: [A-L] Another German ? Record--Lost in Translation--Johannes Leman (sic) Le 21 mars 13 à 00:38, Brian J Densmore a écrit : >> Audrey, >> >> the child was born "heutte ... um Elff uhren" = today at 11 (likely >> AM, though not mentionned).  There is clearly a "l" after the E, then >> the double F (compare wonhafft = residing) > > Well, I don't know where you "clearly" get an "l" out of that chicken > scratch, but the "double f" is definitely the best explanation here, > or a "double s", which makes no sense and can thus be rejected. There > really were only two choices here, Elff of Erst. I just couldn't see > an "l". And yet, there is an L.  The curve is obvious. 100 % sure. >> In German "Uhr" = hour (but also "watch", which doesnt make any sense >> here) >> >> OK, "Uhren" instead of "uhr", but this record is really full of >> mistakes, e.g. "heutte" for "heute", "nitterkomen" for >> "niedergekommen", "Dagner" for "Tagner".... in this awkward German >> mixed up with Alsatian expressions. > > I disagree strongly here. This looks very clearly to be the writing of > a Low German speaker. There are German dialects that use these forms. > I wouldn't call them mistakes or awkward. It's clearly wrong for High > German. What is Low/High German?  This record is from Alsace not fro northern Germany, and as a native Alsatian speaker (Alemanic linguistic group) and having read thousands of Alsatian records, I maintain that this record is written in a bad German with a strong Alsatian (Alemanic) accent. > Notice the consistent use of the initial "d" for "t". Which might also > account for grammatical differences. But I'm not an expert on Low > German or High German grammar, but to me this is clearly written in a > Low German or possibly Middle German form. As I wrote several times here, the confusions D/T, B/P, G/K, V/F (= lenition) are typical of Alsatian accent.  See e.g. "Debartement". Here, your name would be pronounced something between Brian and Prian.  ;^) Edienne Nadife Alsatian sbeager -- Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message