The original spelling of the surname was LEHMANN. My grandfather always insisted that his children spell the surname as such, but when my grandfather's siblings left the small community Ft. Loramie (also known as Loramie's and Berlin), Shelby Co., OH for Dayton, Montgomery Co., OH the spelling of the surname became LEHMAN. My grandfather always told his children that the ancestors worked hard to earn the double "nn" on the end of the surname, and that they weren't to dishonor it. Or, was this his way of getting his way in maintaining the correct spelling. Is there anything significant in having the double "nn" on the surname? I have even noticed this with the spelling of Amann / Aman and others. My first cousin pronounces the name as Leeman and I pronounce it as Layman, but both of us spell it as Lehmann. I know that another branch of the two brothers...gg-gf, Michel, who came in 1828 and the other brother, Nicolas, who came about 1840 have descendants spelling the surname these two ways: Lehman & Layman. The brothers apparently separated after meeting in Stark Co., OH. Nicolas' family went to Wyandot Co., OH & Seneca Co., OH. And, what is interesting is that all the relatives, friends and neighbors who were with them in Stark Co., OH from Schirrhein eventually went to various cities and states....perhaps to buy their own land and to establish or enlarge the Catholic Churches in those areas. Audrey -----Original Message----- From: alsace-lorraine-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:alsace-lorraine-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Etienne Herrbach Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 2:47 AM To: alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [A-L] Another German ? Record--Lost in Translation--JohannesLeman (sic) Le 21 mars 13 à 00:38, Brian J Densmore a écrit : >> Audrey, >> >> the child was born "heutte ... um Elff uhren" = today at 11 (likely >> AM, though not mentionned). There is clearly a "l" after the E, then >> the double F (compare wonhafft = residing) > > Well, I don't know where you "clearly" get an "l" out of that chicken > scratch, but the "double f" is definitely the best explanation here, > or a > "double s", which makes no sense and can thus be rejected. There > really > were only two choices here, Elff of Erst. I just couldn't see an "l". And yet, there is an L. The curve is obvious. 100 % sure. >> In German "Uhr" = hour (but also "watch", which doesnt make any sense >> here) >> >> OK, "Uhren" instead of "uhr", but this record is really full of >> mistakes, e.g. "heutte" for "heute", "nitterkomen" for >> "niedergekommen", "Dagner" for "Tagner".... in this awkward German >> mixed up with Alsatian expressions. > > I disagree strongly here. This looks very clearly to be the writing > of a > Low German speaker. There are German dialects that use these forms. I > wouldn't call them mistakes or awkward. It's clearly wrong for High > German. What is Low/High German? This record is from Alsace not fro northern Germany, and as a native Alsatian speaker (Alemanic linguistic group) and having read thousands of Alsatian records, I maintain that this record is written in a bad German with a strong Alsatian (Alemanic) accent. > Notice the consistent use of the initial "d" for "t". Which might also > account for grammatical differences. But I'm not an expert on Low > German > or High German grammar, but to me this is clearly written in a Low > German > or possibly Middle German form. As I wrote several times here, the confusions D/T, B/P, G/K, V/F (= lenition) are typical of Alsatian accent. See e.g. "Debartement". Here, your name would be pronounced something between Brian and Prian. ;^) Edienne Nadife Alsatian sbeager -- Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2641/5692 - Release Date: 03/20/13 ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2641/5692 - Release Date: 03/20/13

Audrey, two things: - In German, "Mann" = man (male!), as compared to "Mensch" = human. The ending Mann is common is two kinds of surnames: some derived from an occupation or function (Kauf(f)mann = merchant, Zimmermann = carpenter, Amtmann/Amman = various kinds of officers, ......), some others in (old) first names (Christmann, Hartmann, ...). Often written with one N. - what about LEHMANN: derived from "Lehnsmann" = vassal, owner of a "Lehen" = fee (feudal tenure). A very common surmane throughout Germanic areas. Various spellings: Leman, Lehemann, Löhmann...) Etienne Le 21 mars 13 à 14:45, Audrey Shields Hancock a écrit : > The original spelling of the surname was LEHMANN. My grandfather > always > insisted that his children spell the surname as such, but when my > grandfather's siblings left the small community Ft. Loramie (also > known as > Loramie's and Berlin), Shelby Co., OH for Dayton, Montgomery Co., OH > the > spelling of the surname became LEHMAN. My grandfather always told his > children that the ancestors worked hard to earn the double "nn" on > the end > of the surname, and that they weren't to dishonor it. Or, was this > his way > of getting his way in maintaining the correct spelling. > > Is there anything significant in having the double "nn" on the > surname? I > have even noticed this with the spelling of Amann / Aman and others. > > My first cousin pronounces the name as Leeman and I pronounce it as > Layman, > but both of us spell it as Lehmann. I know that another branch of > the two > brothers...gg-gf, Michel, who came in 1828 and the other brother, > Nicolas, > who came about 1840 have descendants spelling the surname these two > ways: > Lehman & Layman. The brothers apparently separated after meeting in > Stark > Co., OH. Nicolas' family went to Wyandot Co., OH & Seneca Co., OH. > And, > what is interesting is that all the relatives, friends and neighbors > who > were with them in Stark Co., OH from Schirrhein eventually went to > various > cities and states....perhaps to buy their own land and to establish or > enlarge the Catholic Churches in those areas. > > Audrey