My dictionary define laboureur: A peasant who is often well off, who possesses land and at least one oxen, thus permiting him to plow for himself and for others Google language tools gives these definitions: plowman plower husbandman tiller plowboy -Dave On 3/3/2013 10:38 AM, Brian J Densmore wrote: > On Sun, March 3, 2013 9:23 am, Etienne Herrbach wrote: >> Hello, here some corrections. >> >> Etienne >> French speaker >> >> >> Le 3 mars 13 à 18:50, Brian J Densmore a écrit : >> >>> The crux of this as I read it is: >>> >>> In Schirrheim at 10 in the morning on the 26th of January 1818 >>> Michael Lehmann, the legitimate adult son, born and living in >>> Schirrheim, >> laboureur (= farmer) > Farmer as in farm-laborer as opposed to a farmer farming his/her own land? > >>> of Michael >>> (can't read the rest of that line looks like "is present and >>> consents", >>> but I think it says something else, perhaps a profession and not >>> consents) >> ci present and consentant (here present and consenting) > I wasn't sure of the last word, as it looked like it was capitalized and I > wasn't expecting that. > >>> and the deceased Catherine Schatt, >> rather SCHOTT > I disagree it looks more like the "a"s this person makes and not the "o"s > found in "Laboureur", "Journalier", and "Soizante". Not that I am > advocating it is the correct name, just stating what was written, as > written. Someone got after me here the last time I corrected a misprinted > name in a document. Thanks for fixing my several keyboard errors in other > places. > >>> married Madeleine Biam. the adult >>> legitimate daughter, born and living in Schirrheim, >>> of the deceased Ignace Vetter >> BIAM, not Vetter > Right got ahead of myself. > >>> and the deceased Catherine Vetter. >>> >>> Witnesses were Simon Schitter, 67, laborer >> laboureur = farmer >> >>> and uncle of the groom. >>> Joseph Straub, 38, ?Carpenter? (?Charpentier) >> yes >> >>> Chretien Richter/Riehter*, 41, laborer >> rather RICHTER, farmer >> >>> Nicolaus Lehmann, 25, day-laborer. >> Nicolas > Force of habit from all my German research. I started out fine, but my > fingers took over. > >>> *The signature of this man looks like Christian Riehtee >> Riehter or Richter > Yeah, I typed an r but the computer changed it to an e. ;') > >> The bride wasn't able to write. > I was wondering about that added text on the edge. > > > >

Dave, Is this a special dictionary - as in related to historical or genealogical research that you refer to or just a better one than I have? Mine is just a typical paperback French-English dictionary. Linda now in California (was Costa Rica) Monroe County, New York Genealogy http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~monroenys Monroe County, New York History http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~monroenys -----Original Message----- From: Dave Francis Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2013 8:28 AM To: alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [A-L] Lost in Translation: French record - 2 My dictionary define laboureur: A peasant who is often well off, who possesses land and at least one oxen, thus permiting him to plow for himself and for others Google language tools gives these definitions: plowman plower husbandman tiller plowboy -Dave

I gree with you, Dave. Etienne Le 3 mars 13 à 17:28, Dave Francis a écrit : > My dictionary define laboureur: A peasant who is often well off, who > possesses land and at least one oxen, thus permiting him to plow for > himself and for others > Google language tools gives these definitions: > plowman > plower > husbandman > tiller > plowboy > > -Dave > > > On 3/3/2013 10:38 AM, Brian J Densmore wrote: >> On Sun, March 3, 2013 9:23 am, Etienne Herrbach wrote: >>> Hello, here some corrections. >>> >>> Etienne >>> French speaker >>> >>> >>> Le 3 mars 13 à 18:50, Brian J Densmore a écrit : >>> >>>> The crux of this as I read it is: >>>> >>>> In Schirrheim at 10 in the morning on the 26th of January 1818 >>>> Michael Lehmann, the legitimate adult son, born and living in >>>> Schirrheim, >>> laboureur (= farmer) >> Farmer as in farm-laborer as opposed to a farmer farming his/her >> own land? >> >>>> of Michael >>>> (can't read the rest of that line looks like "is present and >>>> consents", >>>> but I think it says something else, perhaps a profession and not >>>> consents) >>> ci present and consentant (here present and consenting) >> I wasn't sure of the last word, as it looked like it was >> capitalized and I >> wasn't expecting that. >> >>>> and the deceased Catherine Schatt, >>> rather SCHOTT >> I disagree it looks more like the "a"s this person makes and not >> the "o"s >> found in "Laboureur", "Journalier", and "Soizante". Not that I am >> advocating it is the correct name, just stating what was written, as >> written. Someone got after me here the last time I corrected a >> misprinted >> name in a document. Thanks for fixing my several keyboard errors in >> other >> places. >> >>>> married Madeleine Biam. the adult >>>> legitimate daughter, born and living in Schirrheim, >>>> of the deceased Ignace Vetter >>> BIAM, not Vetter >> Right got ahead of myself. >> >>>> and the deceased Catherine Vetter. >>>> >>>> Witnesses were Simon Schitter, 67, laborer >>> laboureur = farmer >>> >>>> and uncle of the groom. >>>> Joseph Straub, 38, ?Carpenter? (?Charpentier) >>> yes >>> >>>> Chretien Richter/Riehter*, 41, laborer >>> rather RICHTER, farmer >>> >>>> Nicolaus Lehmann, 25, day-laborer. >>> Nicolas >> Force of habit from all my German research. I started out fine, but >> my >> fingers took over. >> >>>> *The signature of this man looks like Christian Riehtee >>> Riehter or Richter >> Yeah, I typed an r but the computer changed it to an e. ;') >> >>> The bride wasn't able to write. >> I was wondering about that added text on the edge. >> >> >> >> > > -- > Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

On Sun, March 3, 2013 10:46 am, Etienne Herrbach wrote: > I gree with you, Dave. > Etienne > > Le 3 mars 13 à 17:28, Dave Francis a écrit : > >> My dictionary define laboureur: A peasant who is often well off, who >> possesses land and at least one oxen, thus permiting him to plow for >> himself and for others >> Google language tools gives these definitions: >> plowman >> plower >> husbandman >> tiller >> plowboy Man, I guess I really need to brush up on my French genealogy professions list. That's what I get for thinking, rather than looking up. I just figured it was some kind of farm worker, and a step above a daylaborer. But it's been three decades since I've used much French, except for a bit here and there on my own research, and occasionally attempt a translation here. Most of my work these days is in German, or Dutch. So the key here seems to be anyone who owned a plow and an ox? I'm not sure I'd translate that as farmer, but rather as ploughman/plowman. While both would of course be correct. It seems to be more specifically to indicate a person making a living ploughing fields, and not just his own. So I'm curious on how accurate that definition is. I'd expect anyone who "owned" land to have a different title, such as "cultivateur". But then this is post-revolution, so the old structure would have been tossed and the newer egalitarian system in place, and of course differences in preferences for clerks and clerics writing/word styles. Still. I know I'm nitpicking, but you know I'm the precise and technical type [or strive to be], and it seems to me the writer here chose that word over perhaps a half dozen other words of like meaning for a reason. Thanks for the definitions Dave! Brian