Re: "Some documents state she was born in Lunenburg, Hanover, Germany. On her daughter's death certificate, it says her mother was born in Alsace Lorraine (spelt Barje) and on one of her daughter's census, it said her mother was born in France." What you have here is a classic case of conflicting evidence, subject to the rules of evaluation explained so eloquently by Elizabeth Shawn Mills. "Some documents" do not help assess whether they are primary or secondary sources or whether they provide more direct evidence of the place of birth than the daughter's death certificate & census enumerations. A daughter can not be present at her mother's birth, so can not be a primary source as to the facts of that birth. Further, the statement on the daughter's death certificate should be taken as "third-hand" information; it can be no better than the daughter's belief and is perhaps less accurate. Records containing the mother's declarations should take precedence over those of the daughter or third parties. During the 1916-1919 and 1936-1945 periods, there were social & economic reasons for persons born in Germany to obfuscate their origins. It may have happened here. You may want to find the record of the mother's entry into Canada (or the United States). It may contain her own statement of her birthplace and be closer in time to the event. -rt_/)

Ralph, Thank you for replying. My great-grandmother Eliza (Bartja) Venn died Nov. 25, 1908 in Vancouver, Washington. The reason I thought her daughter's informaton may have some merit was that they lived together and perhaps exchanged that information. The only record I have of their immigration is from the Passenger and Immigration Lists Index 1500's - 1900's saying the family (parents Heinrich William and Christiana Wilhelmine Bartje) came in 1852 with annotation extracted from the state archive Hannover and port uncertain. Her marriage registration said she was from Lunenburg, Hannover. Any other documents I have just say Germany. I don't know where to get her birth registration. There is such a discrepancy on each document I have regarding her age, anywhere from August 10, 1836 - 1845. The spelling of her last name has variants: Bartja, Bartja, Barja, Bartje, Borga, Bartge, Barga, Bartye, Bartza, Barge, Bargie, Burgey. Any help is greatly appreciated. Carole -----Original Message----- From: alsace-lorraine-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:alsace-lorraine-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Ralph Taylor Sent: September 9, 2008 12:16 PM To: alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [A-L] ALSACE-LORRAINE -- Bartja/Barje Re: "Some documents state she was born in Lunenburg, Hanover, Germany. On her daughter's death certificate, it says her mother was born in Alsace Lorraine (spelt Barje) and on one of her daughter's census, it said her mother was born in France." What you have here is a classic case of conflicting evidence, subject to the rules of evaluation explained so eloquently by Elizabeth Shawn Mills. "Some documents" do not help assess whether they are primary or secondary sources or whether they provide more direct evidence of the place of birth than the daughter's death certificate & census enumerations. A daughter can not be present at her mother's birth, so can not be a primary source as to the facts of that birth. Further, the statement on the daughter's death certificate should be taken as "third-hand" information; it can be no better than the daughter's belief and is perhaps less accurate. Records containing the mother's declarations should take precedence over those of the daughter or third parties. During the 1916-1919 and 1936-1945 periods, there were social & economic reasons for persons born in Germany to obfuscate their origins. It may have happened here. You may want to find the record of the mother's entry into Canada (or the United States). It may contain her own statement of her birthplace and be closer in time to the event. -rt_/) -- Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message