This is the equestrian meaning of the English word groom not the wedding definition See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stable_boy -----Original Message----- From: alsace-lorraine-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:alsace-lorraine-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Dave Francis Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 11:25 AM To: alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com Subject: [A-L] Another French Occupation Does anyone know what a palfrenier is? My dictionary defines it as a groom, but in this death record I'm looking at, it's used as a profession. I've looked on-line and it appears to has something to do with horses. Thanks in advance. -- Dave Francis, CNJ Santa Cruz, California -- Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Does anyone know what is the profession: "ancien Brigadier des ferets pensionnaire"? This comes for a death record from Niederstinzel, Moselle, 1867. There is no context other than being preceded by his age, and followed by his residence. Thanks. -- Dave Francis, CNJ Santa Cruz, California

Happy Holidays Dave; Ancien Brigadier des Ferets Pensionnaire.. I translated the words you wrote and what it comes out to is this... Former Sergeant of Fertes Pensionnaire. Pensionnaire has three meanings... noun.. in hotel masculine... inmate femine... sch boarder Now maybe this person worked in the prison system, and that is where the Sergeant comes from. Maybe someone better knows what "Ferets" is. But I could not find this word when I looked it up in the translation from French to English. Sorry... Hope this helps a little bit... Good luck... Happy Holidays, Patricia

Patricia, I think Etienne Herrbach has the answer. If you plug "brigadier des forets into google you get Drill Sergeant. Although the text clearly is written "ferets" more than likely the recorder made a misspelling. So, I think I'm going to go with a pensioned, former drill sergeant. Dave patriciahans wrote: Happy Holidays Dave; Ancien Brigadier des Ferets Pensionnaire.. I translated the words you wrote and what it comes out to is this... Former Sergeant of Fertes Pensionnaire. Pensionnaire has three meanings... noun.. in hotel masculine... inmate femine... sch boarder Now maybe this person worked in the prison system, and that is where the Sergeant comes from. Maybe someone better knows what "Ferets" is. But I could not find this word when I looked it up in the translation from French to English. Sorry... Hope this helps a little bit... Good luck... Happy Holidays, Patricia -- Dave Francis, CNJ Santa Cruz, California

Hi, The official name of the employment in the French Administration des Eaux et Forêts is "Brigadier des Eaux et Forêts" Happy Holidays to all listmembers from Alsace Ewald ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Francis" <dave.francis@sbcglobal.net> To: <alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 1:06 AM Subject: Re: [A-L] Another French Occupation > > Patricia, > I think Etienne Herrbach has the answer. If you plug "brigadier > des > forets into google you get Drill Sergeant. Although the text clearly is > written "ferets" more than likely the recorder made a misspelling. So, > I > think I'm going to go with a pensioned, former drill sergeant. > Dave > patriciahans wrote: > > Happy Holidays Dave; > > Ancien Brigadier des Ferets Pensionnaire.. > > I translated the words you wrote and what it comes out to is this... > > Former Sergeant of Fertes Pensionnaire. > > Pensionnaire has three meanings... > > noun.. in hotel > masculine... inmate > femine... sch boarder > > Now maybe this person worked in the prison system, and that is where the > Sergeant comes from. Maybe someone better knows what "Ferets" is. But I > could not find this word when I looked it up in the translation from > French > to English. Sorry... > Hope this helps a little bit... Good luck... > > Happy Holidays, > Patricia > > > > -- > > Dave Francis, CNJ > Santa Cruz, California > -- > Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I think that Etienne is correct about online translation without understanding the context. Ewald provided the current profession name: "Brigadier des Eaux et Forêts". The closest translation would be the equivalent to the national US Forest Service: forest ranger. Best, - Giliane -----Original Message----- From: alsace-lorraine-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:alsace-lorraine-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of EWALD Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 4:26 AM To: alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [A-L] Another French Occupation Hi, The official name of the employment in the French Administration des Eaux et Forêts is "Brigadier des Eaux et Forêts" Happy Holidays to all listmembers from Alsace Ewald ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Francis" <dave.francis@sbcglobal.net> To: <alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 1:06 AM Subject: Re: [A-L] Another French Occupation > > Patricia, > I think Etienne Herrbach has the answer. If you plug "brigadier > des > forets into google you get Drill Sergeant. Although the text clearly is > written "ferets" more than likely the recorder made a misspelling. So, > I > think I'm going to go with a pensioned, former drill sergeant. > Dave > patriciahans wrote: > > Happy Holidays Dave; > > Ancien Brigadier des Ferets Pensionnaire.. > > I translated the words you wrote and what it comes out to is this... > > Former Sergeant of Fertes Pensionnaire. > > Pensionnaire has three meanings... > > noun.. in hotel > masculine... inmate > femine... sch boarder > > Now maybe this person worked in the prison system, and that is where the > Sergeant comes from. Maybe someone better knows what "Ferets" is. But I > could not find this word when I looked it up in the translation from > French > to English. Sorry... > Hope this helps a little bit... Good luck... > > Happy Holidays, > Patricia > > > > -- > > Dave Francis, CNJ > Santa Cruz, California > -- > Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.0/1861 - Release Date: 12/22/2008 11:23 AM

Happy Holidays to all listers, sorry Patricia, "pensionnaire" has one further meaning that isn't used anymore : a "pensionnaire" is someone who is retired and receives an amount of money called "pension". As to "feret", it is clearly a misreading. A "ferret" (wirth two "r", diminutive of "fer" = iron) is a small peace of metal used in clothes or in jewelry. More likely is "foret" = forest. Therefore : former forest "brigadeer", retired. Etienne Le 22 déc. 08 à 20:50, patriciahans a écrit : > Happy Holidays Dave; > > Ancien Brigadier des Ferets Pensionnaire.. > > I translated the words you wrote and what it comes out to is this... > > Former Sergeant of Fertes Pensionnaire. > > Pensionnaire has three meanings... > > noun.. in hotel > masculine... inmate > femine... sch boarder > > Now maybe this person worked in the prison system, and that is > where the > Sergeant comes from. Maybe someone better knows what "Ferets" is. > But I > could not find this word when I looked it up in the translation from > French > to English. Sorry... > Hope this helps a little bit... Good luck... > > Happy Holidays, > Patricia

Etienne, I think you're right. "feret should be foret. If anyone is interested here is my list of French professions: accoucheur obstetrician accoucheuse midwife adjoint du maire mayor's assistant adjudicateur judge, awarder agriculteur farmer, husbandman apiculteur beekeeper apothicaire pharmacist appariteur porter apprenti apprentice appreteur hat trimmer or finisher archiviste records keeper armurier armorer, gunsmith arpenteur land surveyor arpete errand boy, apprentice arquebusier gunsmith arrimeur stevedore artisan handicraftsman aubergiste innkeeper aviculteur poultry farmer avocat lawyer, barrister bachoteur ferryman banquier money agent, banker baquetier bucket maker bardeur stone carrier barilleur or barillier cooper barnum showman barreur helmsman becheur ditch digger bedeau church caretaker berger shepherd bijoutier jeweller bineur hoer (farmer) blanchissage de toile fabric washer boiseur timberman (mining) bonne maid, female servant bonnetier hosier bossetier glass blower boucher butcher boulanger baker bourgeois townsman, citizen bourrelier harness maker bousilleur adobe builder boutonnier button maker bouvier herdsman, cowherder braconnier poacher brasseur brewer brassier farmworker, laborer brigadier de foret drill sergeant briqueteur bricklayer briquetier brick maker bucheron woodcutter burineur engraver cabaretier tavern-keeper calfata ship's caulker calottier cap maker calvanier laborer in harvest time cambrioleur burglar cannonier gunner (cannon) Cantonnier Roadmender canut silk weaver Capitaine de Milice Captain of the Militia Capitaine de Navire ship's captain Capitaine de Port port captain Capitaine de troupes troop captain Capitaine de vaisseau ship's captain capitoril town councellor Cardeur Carder wool comber carreleur floor tiler carrier quarryman cartomancien fortune teller cartonneur book binder casquettier helmet maker centurier maker of belts chamoiseur tawer (leather worker) champetre village policeman Chandler Candle maker chanvrier hemp dea Chapelier Hatter Charbonnier Charcoal maker charcutier pork merchant charlot public executioner (1700s) charpentier carpenter, shipwright Charpentier puis coloriste Carpenter and painter charretier waggoner charron wheelwright chartier/tabellion charter writer chasseur hunter châtelain owner of a castle chatreur gelder chaudronnier brazier, ironmonger or cooper, barrel maker chaussetier hosier chausseur shoe salesman chef d'escadron cavarly major chemisier shirt maker cheriere goat girl chevalier-errant knight-errant chevau-leger light cavalryman chevaucheur rider, horseman chimiste chemist chirurgien surgeon chronometreur time keeper cingleur shingler cirier was worker ciseleur carver, sculptor clergé clergymen cloutier nail maker cocher coachman, driver colon colonist, planter, farmer colporteur hawker colporteur de livres book peddler commercant trader, merchant commis clerk compagnon journeyman, partner concierge doorkeeper, janitor conducteur de moutons sheep herder conseiller councilor conteur story teller Cordier ropemaker cordonnier shoemaker corroyeur currier, leather worker corsetier corset maker courrier messenger, courier coutelier cutler couturier seamstress couvreur roofer cuisinier cook cultivateur farmer defricheur clearer, settler degrossisseur one who rough hews, trims degustateur wine taster dentellière lacemaker dentiste dentist devancier predecessor, ancestor diacre deacon docteur médical medical doctor domestique servant, domestic drapier clothier ébéniste cabinet maker emouleur traveling blade shapener entrepreneur undertaker echevin epicier grocer escrimeur fencer essayeur assayer, estimator étameur tinsmith fabricant de bas Maker of stockings fabricant de chapelet rosary maker fabricant de tisser loom maker fabricant de tremblement quiver maker facteur postman or railway porter facturier invoice clerk faiseur de balais brush maker faiseur de panier basket maker fantassin foot soldier, infantryman farinier miller/flour seller fauconnier falconer femme de chambre parlor maid femme de charge housekeeper ferblantier tinsmith fermier tenant farmer ferrant shoeing smith fileur de coton cotton spinner fileur de laines wool spinner filbustier buccaneer flottard naval cadet fontainier fountain-maker forban pirate forestier forester forgeron blacksmith forgeron d'outils tool maker fouilleur excavator fourbisseur furbisher, sword cutter fournier oven keeper francs-tenancier freeholder fromager cheese maker fuyard fugitive, runaway gainier sheath/scabbard, maker gagne-deniers unskilled worker gagne-petit knife grinder gantier glove maker garcon tailleur journeyman tailor garde de champetre constable garde de cheval horse gaurd geolier jailer gigolette street walker giletier waistcoat maker gindre or geindre journeyman baker goujat soldiers servant, hod carrier gourgandine harlot grade noncommissioned offiecer grand seigneur grand lord greeur rigger greffier court clerk or recorder gueusard, gueux beggar, ragamuffin hacheur de paille strawcutter haleur hauler, boat tower hardier shepherd harengere fish-wife herbiere herb woman histrion actor, stage player homme de cheval horseman homme de journee day laborer homme de loi lawyer homme de peine laborer horloger clock maker hotelier innkeeper, host huissier usher immigre settler, immigrant imprimeur printer, pressman inconnu unknown person jardinier gardener joueur de marionette puppeteer journalier journeyman, day laborer juge judge juge de paix Justice of the Peace laboureur A peasant who is often well off, possessor of land and at least one yoke [of oxen], which permits him to plow for himself and for others laineur tea seller lainier wool merchant, worker lamaneur harbor or river pilot lampiste lampmaker, lamplighter larron thief, robber débitant de tabac tobacco dealer lepreux leper lignager kinsman limur filer, wood finisher lisseur polisher loueru hirer out, hired hand loueur de bateaux boat keeper lunetier spectacle maker, optician lutteur wrestler macon mason magister village schoolmaster malletier trunk maker maltotier tax gatherer mandant employer manoeuvre common worker maquignon horse dealer, go between marbrier marble cutter, polisher marcaire stable person marchand ambulant peddler marchand d'eau-de-vie liquor merchant marchand de bestiaux Cattle merchant marchand de blé corn chandler marchand de draps cloth merchant marchand de épicery canned goods merchant marchand épicies spice merchant marchand de fers Iron merchant marchand de porcs pig merchant mareyeur fish salesman marie married man marieur matchmaker marqueur (euse) marker, scorer, tally keeper marteleur hammerman mastroquet pub keeper matelot sailor, seaman megissier tawer, leather dresser mendiant beggar menuisier joiner, carpenter mercier draper messire sire, master, squire Metayer Sharecropper meunier miller milicier militiaman miroitier looking glass maker, vendor monnayeur coiner, minter mousse cabin boy, ship boy musicien musician negociant merchant or wholesaler nocher pilot, boatman nourrice wet nurse nourrisseur cow keeper, cattle feeder oiseleur bird catcher, fowler ornemaniste sculptor, painter of ornaments outilleur tool maker ouvriere workingwoman pailleur dealer in straw palfrenier horse groomer panetier bread store keeper pantouflier slipper maker paqueteur packer parcheminier parchment maker parqueteur floor layer pasteur pastor patachon steersman, coach driver pâtre herdsman, shepherd peaussier skinner, skin dresser pecheur fisherman peignier comb maker, seller peintre painter perruquier barber wigmaker pharmacien pharmacist piqueur outrider, overseer plumassier feather merchant pompier pump maker, fireman pontier bridge keeper porcelainier porcelain maker, worker porcher swine herder portageur toter, carrier porteballe pedlar, packman portefaix porter, street porter porteflambeau torchbearer, linkman poseur one who lays down stones posticheur wig maker potier potter poudrier gunpowder maker pousse-cailloux footslogger, infantryman precepteur tutor, teacher proprietaire landholder proviseur headmaster pugilistes boxer, fighter putain whore radoubeur ship repairer, caulker rapetasseur piecer, patcher, cobbler ravaudeur mender recenseur census taker, enumerator redresseur de torts knight-errant regisseur de biens register of goods regleur regulator (of clocks) regrattier huckster, dealer in vegetables & cheese relieur bookbinder relieur de livres bookbinder of books renardier fox catcher rentier retired person who lives of rent repasseur de couteaux knife grinder repasseuse ironer robin lawyer robinetier brass smith rocailleur rockworker maker ronchonnot old retired officer rouleur traveling journeyman roulier wagoner, carter, carrier sabotier sabot-maker, woodenshoemaker sabreur swashbuckler, cavalry soldier sage femme midwife saigneur bleeder, blood letter sandalier sandal maker sans-patrie person without a country saucier sauce maker, sauce setter savant scholar, scientist savonnier soap maker scieur de long pit sawyer sculpteur doreur sculptor gilder sergent de ville policeman seigneur lord, nobleman sellier saddler serrurier locksmith servreuse dry nurse sicaire hired assassin sommelier butler, cellarman soudard old soldier, mercenary souffleur de verre glass blower taillandier edge tool maker tailleur d'habits tailor tailleur de pierre stone cutter tanneur tanner taupier mole catcher tavernier tavern keeper taxateur taxer, assessor teinturier dyer tendeur setter of snares teneur de livres bookkeeper terrassier digger timonier steersman, helmsman tirailleur sharpshooter, skirmisher tireur marksman, rifleman tisserand weaver tisseur weaver tisseur en soie silk weaver toilier dealer in linen tonnelier cooper tourneur turner trafiquant trafficker or trader traitant tax farmer travailleur worker, labourer trayeur milker tricoteur knitter tuilier tile maker usinier manufacturer, mill owner vannier basket maker veilleur de nuit night watchman veloutier velvet weaver vendeur d'habillement clothing salesm verrier glass maker vieux troupier old campaigner vigneron vine-dresser vilain village peasant vitrier glassmaker, glazier voleur thief, robber voituier carrier, carter or builder of carriages vrillier gimlet maker zingueur zinc worker Etienne Herrbach wrote: Happy Holidays to all listers, sorry Patricia, "pensionnaire" has one further meaning that isn't used anymore : a "pensionnaire" is someone who is retired and receives an amount of money called "pension". As to "feret", it is clearly a misreading. A "ferret" (wirth two "r", diminutive of "fer" = iron) is a small peace of metal used in clothes or in jewelry. More likely is "foret" = forest. Therefore : former forest "brigadeer", retired. Etienne Le 22 déc. 08 à 20:50, patriciahans a écrit : Happy Holidays Dave; Ancien Brigadier des Ferets Pensionnaire.. I translated the words you wrote and what it comes out to is this... Former Sergeant of Fertes Pensionnaire. Pensionnaire has three meanings... noun.. in hotel masculine... inmate femine... sch boarder Now maybe this person worked in the prison system, and that is where the Sergeant comes from. Maybe someone better knows what "Ferets" is. But I could not find this word when I looked it up in the translation from French to English. Sorry... Hope this helps a little bit... Good luck... Happy Holidays, Patricia -- Dave Francis, CNJ Santa Cruz, California