> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 09:31:04 -0600 (CST) > From: brian@amason.net > > On Mon, November 10, 2008 8:06 am, Etienne Herrbach wrote: >> >> a few precisions on Brian's post : >> >>> Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 23:19:23 -0600 (CST) >>> From: brian@amason.net >>> >>>> said he was born in Alsace. He was French and his native tongue was >>>> French. >>> Many Alsatians native tongue up until post WWII was Alsatian. Which >>> is a Germanic dialect. Alsatians certainly spoke French and >>> German, but >>> Alsatian would have been the language of everyday use. >> >> Before WWI, very few Alsatians in the countryside understood French. >> They spoke dialect and understood German. Particularly the >> newspapers >> and the Catholic and Protestant worships were mainly in German (with >> some local exceptions). > I still disagree here. First I never said "every" Alsatian spoke > French > and German. Secondly pre-WWI local newspapers more commonly in > Alsatian. > Not French or German. Still I would have expected Catholic worships > to be > in Latin. I too, still disagree, dear Brian. First, I never said that you said... etc. Secondly, pre-WW1 newspaper were definitely NOT in Alsatian, for a simple reason: Alsatian dialect is NOT written. Its written form is ... German. Even today there is no standard and widely used writing for Alsatian. Moreover, how can a dialect, which differs between areas, be standardized? From south to north, it evolves from High Alemannic forms to Frankish. See: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alsacien -- in French -- particularly click on the map. >>>> Alsace and Lorraine were a part of Prussia for a period of time. >> >> Alsace and Moselle were part of the German Empire ruled by the >> Prussians, between 1871 and 1918. > No Elsass and Lothringen were part of the German Empire. > Moselle was created from the province of Lorraine in the 1780s. You > can > call it Moselle, put it doesn't alter the fact it was a part of > Lorraine. Of course, Brian, Moselle is part of Lorraine (did I say the opposite?). Moselle is a French Departement (capital Metz), one of the four that form Lorraine. See: : http://membres.lycos.fr/g00ffrr5/cartes/carttexte/carte.htm -- in French too, sorry... I wrote "Alsace and Moselle" and not "Alsace and Lorraine" for a simple reason: as I mentionned several times on this list, ONLY Moselle was annexed to the German Empire in 1871. This is because Moselle belongs to the "Germanic-dialect speaking" area (Frankish dialect). The other 3 Departements of Lorraine (Meurthe et Moselle, Meuse, Vosges) remained in France. The annexed parts (Moselle and Alsace, minus the 'Territoire de Belfort') were called (improperly) by the Germans "Reichsland Elsass-Lothringen" (Alsace-Lorraine), howerer the major part of Lorraine was NOT included. Having said this, one should add that the border of Moselle changed somewhat during these tribulations. The borders of Meurthe (now Meurthe et Moselle) and Vosges Departements also charged a bit. See the map: http://splaf.free.fr/ -- then click "Departements modifies" Best wishes, Etienne Alsace