To be more precise, the Rhine begins in the Swiss Alps, flows down northerly to the border of Switzerland, Germany and Austria, turns west making the Northern border between Switzerland and Germany, turns north and makes the eastern border of Haut-Rhin and Bas-Rhin (likely from which the names derive), and finally empties out over the plains of the Netherlands past Utrecht and Rotterdam into the North Sea. I meant to post a correction on that too. Not that my geography is that great. Although in the distant past the Rhine wasn't a strict border between Alsace and Baden. People on both sides of the Rhine are probably more closely connected culturally than they are to other regions within their own countries. But, I've not put a lot of time into researching or proving that. Just my anecdotal observations from roots on both sides of the Rhine valley. There was another error in that post, I believe, making a comment that the Rhine was the extent of the Roman Empire. While the Empire fluctuated over time, it extended from Portugal to Turkey and Asia to Arabia and around the entire Mediterranean. North to Hadrian's Wall (and slightly beyond for a few years) in England. They never seemed to extend their influence into Scotland or Ireland. All of Alsace, and much (all?) of Lorraine was within the Empire, the Northern Rhine, in Germany was a line limiting the Empire, but the Empire extended beyond the Rhine on it's southern portion and they had towns and defense lines there. Baden, Baden itself was a Roman town. Much, if not all, of Southern Baden east of the Rhine was within the Empire. And you can still find Roman roads and structures there today. Brian On Fri, July 8, 2011 2:42 pm, Etienne Herrbach wrote: > Hello Ralph, > > sorry but the Rhine River has no connection at all to Lorraine, nor > is it the northern border of Alsace. It forms the eastern border of > Alsace from Basel to Lauterbourg. Then the Rhine continues its course > northwards into Germany (Palatinate, Rhineland...). > > Etienne