To Gloria and Linda: The quickest resource is Zedlers Lexikon (around 1706-1736) which you can actually access on line, provided you can read the print. The original typeface is "Fraktur" in German, which is also known as "Gothic print" in English. There is an index on this site and you can choose the subjects. Here is the link: http://www.zedler-lexikon.de/index.html You can also search in the libraries, but in these modern times we have far better tools allowing us access to a quick reference from our fingertips. It will never be the "entire" source, of course, but it is a stimulus for further study. Now, go to this link and see for yourself what is offered on line. http://books.google.de/books?vid=OCLC02110460&id=86AJAAAAIAAJ&dq=Das+K%C3%B6n There are, of course many others like these. Since there is a "Schematismus des Koenigreich Boehmens," I am sure there must be such for Alsace Lorraine, because all regions were under noble rule before the revolution in your case, and until the end of WW1 (1918) in the case of Austria Hungary. The demand for taxes, providing regiments, horses, victuals, billeting and supply was from King to Duke, from Duke to the Counts, from Counts to Barons and from the Barons to the managers of their estates and finally to the taxpaying populace. From time to time the King required an - lets say it in modern terms - "inventory of his realm" - and this type of enumeration has survived to our days. There certainly must be such a schematism for Alsace Lorraine which you will have to find, just like I found this link for the main area of my research. If you get to read old legal scripts dated from 1635 to 1744, the legal aspect of the involved persons becomes quite clear and is easier to understand than the rather difficult legal language of that time where scribes used goose quills and the writing was full of ink spots. And here is the register of estates owned by the aristocrats in Bohemia, which is also often helpful, as there is a register of names of people they were employed by them - at THAT time. And finally, for bibliographical purposes here is a valuable link: http://books.google.com/books?id=lL5LAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=schematism#v=onepage&q&f=false where you can pick a title of your interest, and where you may either peruse or delve into it. Besides this, I also found International Interlibrary loans extremely efficient and which you can order "at your fingertips" from your own computer. http://www.antiqbook.com/boox/burgvl/books8000.shtml, Aida Kraus Baumbusch Independent Scholar ------------------------------------------------------------------- On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 5:41 PM, gloria ishida <[email protected]> wrote: > Linda, I agree. > > Not only the book, author, publication, but the original source, usually > found in a footnote or end note. also the area and time period covered. We > cannot assume that every area of pre German unification was the same, and > also we are to be speaking of Alsace which perhaps adapted German custom. > > I have been reading "Our Daily Bread", by Teva J. Scheer that was mentioned > here a while ago. She deals with a specific area of Baden and puts > additional information about burgher status, but again this is Baden. > > Still the discussion has been interesting. > > Gloria I > > > On Jul 2, 2011, at 3:33 AM, Linda H Gutierrez wrote: > > >> From where did you get this information you posted? Please provide > sources > > especially if this is taken from somewhere and not in your own words! > > > > > > > -- > Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I may be mistaken, and I am more frequently than I'd like, but I think Linda and Gloria were hoping for a specific reference to your source that "children of Burghers who married were granted [full?] Burgher status". That line was a new one for me also. Much of the rest of your post I was already aware of. I have seen statements in my readings that in, at least, some states (such as The Netherlands) children of Burghers had Burgher status. Although, nothing in my readings has indicated whether that status held over into "adulthood". I know that Burgher status could be lost for various reasons. I too was looking forward to seeing a specific reference for your above statement. While I would love nothing more than to spend hours delving into the information in your links, my schedule doesn't frequently allow such open-ended research tasks. ;') Brian On Fri, July 1, 2011 10:22 pm, Aida Kraus wrote: > To Gloria and Linda: > The quickest resource is Zedlers Lexikon (around 1706-1736) which you can > actually access on line, provided you can read the print. The original > typeface is "Fraktur" in German, which is also known as "Gothic print" in > English. There is an index on this site and you can choose the subjects. > Here is the link: > http://www.zedler-lexikon.de/index.html > ...

Brian, you are right that in certain areas at least, burgher status could not be transferred to another town if one moved. Also, again depending on location, women could have burgher status but could not pass it on to children. Sounds like mitrochondrial for males. Smile. I do wish we could find specifics for Alsace. Googling I could only find anywhere specific to individual Alsatian burghers (and my " internet history is too long and not bringing up what I want at the moment) was that the only source of income for Wissenbourg burghers was local wine. They did well, for the photos of the many remaining burgher houses there are lovely. Gloria On Jul 2, 2011, at 9:24 PM, [email protected] wrote: > I may be mistaken, and I am more frequently than I'd like, but I think > Linda and Gloria were hoping for a specific reference to your source that > "children of Burghers who married were granted [full?] Burgher status". > > That line was a new one for me also. Much of the rest of your post I was > already aware of. I have seen statements in my readings that in, at least, > some states (such as The Netherlands) children of Burghers had Burgher > status. Although, nothing in my readings has indicated whether that status > held over into "adulthood". I know that Burgher status could be lost for > various reasons. > > I too was looking forward to seeing a specific reference for your above > statement. While I would love nothing more than to spend hours delving > into the information in your links, my schedule doesn't frequently allow > such open-ended research tasks. ;') > > Brian >

Aida, Of course, google books that most of us know, is a good source. Thank you for your further excellent resources in German, in the Gothic print that I learned in university. Naturally, I would have to work hard with some of the references with a German dictionary. But would you please tell us the source for your quotation that was in English; perhaps it was your translation. The paragraph with your reference 'Read more about the town under "Town Life"' We researchers more often than not must to go to secondary sources but these will lead us to other sources and resources. If we write up more than names, places and dates (and even in these cases, also), we should indicated our sources, I am sure you agree. Gloria

Oh is THAT what you meant! It came from a Medieval Course Study Pack. But I believe you can purchase this on line here: http://www.bookrags.com/subscribe/choice7.php?p=hist&u=medieval-europe-lifestyle-and-recreation Aida On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 10:32 PM, gloria ishida <[email protected]> wrote: > Aida, > > Of course, google books that most of us know, is a good source. > > Thank you for your further excellent resources in German, in the Gothic > print that I learned in university. Naturally, I would have to work hard > with some of the references with a German dictionary. > > But would you please tell us the source for your quotation that was in > English; perhaps it was your translation. > > The paragraph with your reference > > 'Read more about the town under "Town Life"' > > We researchers more often than not must to go to secondary sources but > these will lead us to other sources and resources. If we write up more than > names, places and dates (and even in these cases, also), we should indicated > our sources, I am sure you agree. > > Gloria > > > > > -- > Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >