Brian, Where in the midwest do you live? I have been searching for may grandfather port of entry for "forever" and have not been able to find out anything. I know he endeed up in St. Louis county. I first find him in the census in 1900. Any ideas would be helpful and appreciated his name was Otto Sauvain. Thanks, Peggie Sevem --- On Sat, 9/29/12, Brian J Densmore <brian@amason.net> wrote: > From: Brian J Densmore <brian@amason.net> > Subject: Re: [A-L] immigration question > To: alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com > Date: Saturday, September 29, 2012, 12:55 PM > Personally, I've never understood > that. I'm sure there's some simple > history lesson in there for me. I would have thought > Rotterdam to be the > natural choice of emigrants from Alsace. Hop on a skip along > the Rhine and > ride it out to the sea. What could be easier? > > But of course, LeHavre and Bremen are about the same > distance from Alsace. > One would probably ride the Rhine to Weisbaden, Cologne, > Dusseldorf or > Duisberg, and then on from there to Bremen. There are of > course other > choices. If I were Alsatian in 1850, I'd probably prefer > probably the the > route through German speaking territory over French. > Although French was > probably taught in some schools in Alsace then. Still, I > think the road > from Alsace to Bremen would be an easier trek. > > If I were from Lorraine, though, probably the flip side. But > these are > just wild guesses on my part. My grandmother's accent was > very strongly > German sounding. Although she was a bit of a conundrum > (énigme). > > Although, I suspect the passage from Le Havre might be > cheaper, which > probably had something to do with it. I know there was some > sponsorship > programs booking people to make the trip to America from > several places in > Europe. The industrial boom needing cheap labor for all > manner of > factories, apprenticeships, miners, and of course women to > work for the > booming upper crust, and to marry the immigrant men (some > seeking wives > from the region of their birth). > > I'm certain my gr-gr-grandfather John J Duffy had his > passage paid for in > the 1850s so he could come to America under a blacksmith's > apprenticeship > program. I've never been able to prove that. Though to be > fair it's hard > doing the legwork needed from here in the Midwest. > > Lastly, it's not surprising to find mistakes in the Germans > To America > sources. Some of that information comes from WPA projects. > There are > always mistakes, although a very valuable project. > > > > Brian > > > On Sat, September 29, 2012 7:32 am, gloria ishida wrote: > > I have been away from Alsace researching for awhile but > now have found > > something that is perplexing. > > > > It is written in local secondary sources that my > Great-great Grandmother > > Catherine (Catherina) Jacob arrived in the United > States (Ohio) in either > > 1854(obituary) or 1855 (1900 US census). > > She was born in 1833 in Niederroedern, Alsace. Most of > my records for the > > Jacob family and related families are fairly complete > with a couple brick > > walls. > > > > When I still had ancestry.com subscription I could not > find records that > > fit for her nor others available online. > > > > This record is the perplexing one. > > > > Margareth Jacob, age 21, France, arrival (no port) Jan. > 13, 1854, > > destination USA, birth date, 1833. Germans to America > Passenger Data file > > > > In baptismal and civil birth records, she has only that > single name, > > Catherina.  But her mother's and grandmother's > names were Marguerite. > > Could their have been confusion in the German to > America file with her > > mother's name and hers? Her father was long deceased. > > > > To make things more confusing, I found by googling: > > > > "Bremen ship ALBERT, Remme, master ... sailed from > Bremen June 20, 1854 > > ... arriving at Baltimore August 8, 1854. It goes on to > state that > > National Archives (USA) ... is misfiled under January > 13....More is found > > dated June 15 5 days before departure. the passenger > arrival list, dated > > August 10, 1854, two days after arrival, is microfilmed > on National > > Archives Microfilm Publication M255, roll 10, no. 66 - > Germans to america, > > vol.8. pp 24-25. > > > > While most folks from Alsace to America sailed from Le > Havre, it is not > > impossible, I suppose, some went to Bremen. I have no > idea with whom > > Catherine might have been traveling with; she was only > 21. > > > > Any help, hints, suggestions will be much appreciated. > > > > > > Gloria Ishida > > Japan > > > > > > "Genealogy. An account of one's descent from an > ancestor who did not > > particularly care to trace his own." Ambrose Bierce > > > > -- > > Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > -- > Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm  > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message

I live in the KC metro. Opposite side of the state, but about 25 miles from the regional NARA. They might have the records for St. Louis. I also have access to the Midwest Genealogical Library, which is the biggest in the Midwest. And it's big. If you send me some details I can make a trip or two and see what I can find. My schedule is likely to be very busy for a while though. It's coming up on my primary client's busy season. Starts about, oh, now. ;') Which reminds me, I have several requests outstanding, and have to check into new office space later today. So, I'd better run. Still have coding to squeeze in here somewhere. :D But, I'm sure I can squeeze in some research here in the next few weeks. Plus having a request from a co-genealogist is a handy excuse for poor ol' Jack to play [Sad really. Doing genealogy is now considered my playtime]. Exciting as I've never really had much excuse to visit the local NARA branch. It's a big complex, so I hear. Brian On Sat, September 29, 2012 11:27 am, Peggie Sevem wrote: > Brian, > Where in the midwest do you live? I have been searching for may > grandfather port of entry for "forever" and have not been able to find out > anything. I know he endeed up in St. Louis county. I first find him in the > census in 1900. Any ideas would be helpful and appreciated his name was > Otto Sauvain. > Thanks, > Peggie Sevem > > --- On Sat, 9/29/12, Brian J Densmore <brian@amason.net> wrote: > >> From: Brian J Densmore <brian@amason.net> >> Subject: Re: [A-L] immigration question >> To: alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com >> Date: Saturday, September 29, 2012, 12:55 PM >> Personally, I've never understood >> that. I'm sure there's some simple >> history lesson in there for me. I would have thought >> Rotterdam to be the >> natural choice of emigrants from Alsace. Hop on a skip along >> the Rhine and >> ride it out to the sea. What could be easier? >> >> But of course, LeHavre and Bremen are about the same >> distance from Alsace. >> One would probably ride the Rhine to Weisbaden, Cologne, >> Dusseldorf or >> Duisberg, and then on from there to Bremen. There are of >> course other >> choices. If I were Alsatian in 1850, I'd probably prefer >> probably the the >> route through German speaking territory over French. >> Although French was >> probably taught in some schools in Alsace then. Still, I >> think the road >> from Alsace to Bremen would be an easier trek. >> >> If I were from Lorraine, though, probably the flip side. But >> these are >> just wild guesses on my part. My grandmother's accent was >> very strongly >> German sounding. Although she was a bit of a conundrum >> (énigme). >> >> Although, I suspect the passage from Le Havre might be >> cheaper, which >> probably had something to do with it. I know there was some >> sponsorship >> programs booking people to make the trip to America from >> several places in >> Europe. The industrial boom needing cheap labor for all >> manner of >> factories, apprenticeships, miners, and of course women to >> work for the >> booming upper crust, and to marry the immigrant men (some >> seeking wives >> from the region of their birth). >> >> I'm certain my gr-gr-grandfather John J Duffy had his >> passage paid for in >> the 1850s so he could come to America under a blacksmith's >> apprenticeship >> program. I've never been able to prove that. Though to be >> fair it's hard >> doing the legwork needed from here in the Midwest. >> >> Lastly, it's not surprising to find mistakes in the Germans >> To America >> sources. Some of that information comes from WPA projects. >> There are >> always mistakes, although a very valuable project. >> >> >> >> Brian >> >> >> On Sat, September 29, 2012 7:32 am, gloria ishida wrote: >> > I have been away from Alsace researching for awhile but >> now have found >> > something that is perplexing. >> > >> > It is written in local secondary sources that my >> Great-great Grandmother >> > Catherine (Catherina) Jacob arrived in the United >> States (Ohio) in either >> > 1854(obituary) or 1855 (1900 US census). >> > She was born in 1833 in Niederroedern, Alsace. Most of >> my records for the >> > Jacob family and related families are fairly complete >> with a couple brick >> > walls. >> > >> > When I still had ancestry.com subscription I could not >> find records that >> > fit for her nor others available online. >> > >> > This record is the perplexing one. >> > >> > Margareth Jacob, age 21, France, arrival (no port) Jan. >> 13, 1854, >> > destination USA, birth date, 1833. Germans to America >> Passenger Data file >> > >> > In baptismal and civil birth records, she has only that >> single name, >> > Catherina.  But her mother's and grandmother's >> names were Marguerite. >> > Could their have been confusion in the German to >> America file with her >> > mother's name and hers? Her father was long deceased. >> > >> > To make things more confusing, I found by googling: >> > >> > "Bremen ship ALBERT, Remme, master ... sailed from >> Bremen June 20, 1854 >> > ... arriving at Baltimore August 8, 1854. It goes on to >> state that >> > National Archives (USA) ... is misfiled under January >> 13....More is found >> > dated June 15 5 days before departure. the passenger >> arrival list, dated >> > August 10, 1854, two days after arrival, is microfilmed >> on National >> > Archives Microfilm Publication M255, roll 10, no. 66 - >> Germans to america, >> > vol.8. pp 24-25. >> > >> > While most folks from Alsace to America sailed from Le >> Havre, it is not >> > impossible, I suppose, some went to Bremen. I have no >> idea with whom >> > Catherine might have been traveling with; she was only >> 21. >> > >> > Any help, hints, suggestions will be much appreciated. >> > >> > >> > Gloria Ishida >> > Japan >> > >> > >> > "Genealogy. An account of one's descent from an >> ancestor who did not >> > particularly care to trace his own." Ambrose Bierce >> > >> > -- >> > Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: >> > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> > >> >> >> -- >> Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm  >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the >> subject and the body of the message > > -- > Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Thank you sooo much for your generous offer to help! This is what I know or what I think I know from the few records I have. My great grand fathers death certificate indicated the following: Eugene Sauvain Died 4/13/1886, St. Louis County Mo,48 yrs old he was Swiss and a widow. According to My grandfather (Otto Sauvain or Arthur Sevem) application for life ins. his mother Magdalena Maths died the year before in child birth. I can not find any info on her. 1900 Census My grand father appears as: Arthur Suvais born June 1880 in Missouri Said his father and mother were born in France His brother Paul was also on the record also said he was born in 1878 also born in Mo. His sister Lina married George Kasper 10/15/1889 she spelled her name Souriene born 9/15/1868 she died 6/15/1923 St Louis county Mo.place of birth is listed as France. Sister Lizzie (Elizabeth) married John Matern 11/24/1899 spelled her last name Sauvain born 3/22/1872 in Switzerland died 6/13/1942 in St. Louis mo. My grandfather Otto? married Frances Johner 8/4/1901 in St. Louis, Mo using the name Sevem he used that name the rest of his life. He always said he was born in Alsace Lorianne and came to us when he was three but I can not find any records to prove that. He had a brother Paul that I have very little info on. No marriage, or death that I could fine on a "Declaration of Intention for Citizen" on April 30, 1905 said he was a native of Germany. I found him on the 1920 census using the name Paul Sevem said he was from Germany. After that he disappears. According to census records the girls and Paul say they came to the Us either in 1881 or 1882. The girls say they were born in Switzerland, Paul, Germany, Otto France. My grandfather was orphaned at the age of 6 so he knew very little. I cannot find any immigration records for them. The dates that I gave for the marriages are the earliest records I could find. My grandfather said he lived with a family by the name of Crecelius but I can't find any evidence of this. I have searched census records, and the 1880 Agriculture census. I just don't know where else to look. I have been looking for information since I was a little kid and I just can't seem to get anywhere. Many thanks for your help. Peggie Sevem --- On Mon, 10/1/12, Brian J Densmore <brian@amason.net> wrote: > From: Brian J Densmore <brian@amason.net> > Subject: Re: [A-L] immigration question > To: alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com > Date: Monday, October 1, 2012, 10:20 AM > I live in the KC metro. Opposite side > of the state, but about 25 miles > from the regional NARA. They might have the records for St. > Louis. I also > have access to the Midwest Genealogical Library, which is > the biggest in > the Midwest. And it's big. If you send me some details I can > make a trip > or two and see what I can find. My schedule is likely to be > very busy for > a while though. It's coming up on my primary client's busy > season. Starts > about, oh, now. ;') > > Which reminds me, I have several requests outstanding, and > have to check > into new office space later today. So, I'd better run. Still > have coding > to squeeze in here somewhere. :D > > But, I'm sure I can squeeze in some research here in the > next few weeks. > Plus having a request from a co-genealogist is a handy > excuse for poor ol' > Jack to play [Sad really. Doing genealogy is now considered > my playtime]. > > Exciting as I've never really had much excuse to visit the > local NARA > branch. It's a big complex, so I hear. > > Brian > > On Sat, September 29, 2012 11:27 am, Peggie Sevem wrote: > > Brian, > > Where in the midwest do you live? I have been searching > for may > > grandfather port of entry for "forever" and have not > been able to find out > > anything. I know he endeed up in St. Louis county. I > first find him in the > > census in 1900. Any ideas would be helpful  and > appreciated his name was > > Otto Sauvain. > > Thanks, > > Peggie Sevem > > > > --- On Sat, 9/29/12, Brian J Densmore <brian@amason.net> > wrote: > > > >> From: Brian J Densmore <brian@amason.net> > >> Subject: Re: [A-L] immigration question > >> To: alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com > >> Date: Saturday, September 29, 2012, 12:55 PM > >> Personally, I've never understood > >> that. I'm sure there's some simple > >> history lesson in there for me. I would have > thought > >> Rotterdam to be the > >> natural choice of emigrants from Alsace. Hop on a > skip along > >> the Rhine and > >> ride it out to the sea. What could be easier? > >> > >> But of course, LeHavre and Bremen are about the > same > >> distance from Alsace. > >> One would probably ride the Rhine to Weisbaden, > Cologne, > >> Dusseldorf or > >> Duisberg, and then on from there to Bremen. There > are of > >> course other > >> choices. If I were Alsatian in 1850, I'd probably > prefer > >> probably the the > >> route through German speaking territory over > French. > >> Although French was > >> probably taught in some schools in Alsace then. > Still, I > >> think the road > >> from Alsace to Bremen would be an easier trek. > >> > >> If I were from Lorraine, though, probably the flip > side. But > >> these are > >> just wild guesses on my part. My grandmother's > accent was > >> very strongly > >> German sounding. Although she was a bit of a > conundrum > >> (énigme). > >> > >> Although, I suspect the passage from Le Havre might > be > >> cheaper, which > >> probably had something to do with it. I know there > was some > >> sponsorship > >> programs booking people to make the trip to America > from > >> several places in > >> Europe. The industrial boom needing cheap labor for > all > >> manner of > >> factories, apprenticeships, miners, and of course > women to > >> work for the > >> booming upper crust, and to marry the immigrant men > (some > >> seeking wives > >> from the region of their birth). > >> > >> I'm certain my gr-gr-grandfather John J Duffy had > his > >> passage paid for in > >> the 1850s so he could come to America under a > blacksmith's > >> apprenticeship > >> program. I've never been able to prove that. Though > to be > >> fair it's hard > >> doing the legwork needed from here in the Midwest. > >> > >> Lastly, it's not surprising to find mistakes in the > Germans > >> To America > >> sources. Some of that information comes from WPA > projects. > >> There are > >> always mistakes, although a very valuable project. > >> > >> > >> > >> Brian > >> > >> > >> On Sat, September 29, 2012 7:32 am, gloria ishida > wrote: > >> > I have been away from Alsace researching for > awhile but > >> now have found > >> > something that is perplexing. > >> > > >> > It is written in local secondary sources that > my > >> Great-great Grandmother > >> > Catherine (Catherina) Jacob arrived in the > United > >> States (Ohio) in either > >> > 1854(obituary) or 1855 (1900 US census). > >> > She was born in 1833 in Niederroedern, Alsace. > Most of > >> my records for the > >> > Jacob family and related families are fairly > complete > >> with a couple brick > >> > walls. > >> > > >> > When I still had ancestry.com subscription I > could not > >> find records that > >> > fit for her nor others available online. > >> > > >> > This record is the perplexing one. > >> > > >> > Margareth Jacob, age 21, France, arrival (no > port) Jan. > >> 13, 1854, > >> > destination USA, birth date, 1833. Germans to > America > >> Passenger Data file > >> > > >> > In baptismal and civil birth records, she has > only that > >> single name, > >> > Catherina.  But her mother's and > grandmother's > >> names were Marguerite. > >> > Could their have been confusion in the German > to > >> America file with her > >> > mother's name and hers? Her father was long > deceased. > >> > > >> > To make things more confusing, I found by > googling: > >> > > >> > "Bremen ship ALBERT, Remme, master ... sailed > from > >> Bremen June 20, 1854 > >> > ... arriving at Baltimore August 8, 1854. It > goes on to > >> state that > >> > National Archives (USA) ... is misfiled under > January > >> 13....More is found > >> > dated June 15 5 days before departure. the > passenger > >> arrival list, dated > >> > August 10, 1854, two days after arrival, is > microfilmed > >> on National > >> > Archives Microfilm Publication M255, roll 10, > no. 66 - > >> Germans to america, > >> > vol.8. pp 24-25. > >> > > >> > While most folks from Alsace to America sailed > from Le > >> Havre, it is not > >> > impossible, I suppose, some went to Bremen. I > have no > >> idea with whom > >> > Catherine might have been traveling with; she > was only > >> 21. > >> > > >> > Any help, hints, suggestions will be much > appreciated. > >> > > >> > > >> > Gloria Ishida > >> > Japan > >> > > >> > > >> > "Genealogy. An account of one's descent from > an > >> ancestor who did not > >> > particularly care to trace his own." Ambrose > Bierce > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: > >> > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm > >> > > >> > > >> > ------------------------------- > >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > email to > >> > ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com > >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without > >> > the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: > >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm  > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > to > >> ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com > >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the > >> subject and the body of the message > > > > -- > > Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > -- > Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm  > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message