Brian, Thanks for the word about Ms. Bentz's book. I will see what I can find on Amazon. I imagine our local library probably has a copy too. Not to worry about being put off. I am a bottom line person myself and sometimes in my haste to get an answer I cut to the chase too quick and leave out the nice stuff. Since retiring I am learning to be more patient and kind. Have a great week. Linda On 2/13/13 7:06 PM, "Brian J Densmore" <brian@amason.net> wrote: >On Wed, February 13, 2013 2:36 pm, Linda Passwaters wrote: >> Brian, >> >> Thank you for setting the record straight. Yes, the little fish example >>is >> absolutely correct. I was just using a generalization to answer the >> question as to whether the suetterlinschrift site would be helpful. I >> assure you what I don't know about the German language and its written >> variants would fill an ocean. As you suggested it is a learnable skill >>and >> I hope to get better at it. I was very pleased with the >>suetterlinschrift >> sites you sent. They will be very helpful to us as we continue to work >>on >> a particularly difficult translation. Thank you for sharing the useful >> information. I hope you will allow me to keep your email address handily >> in case I have something I need advice on. >No problem. What I don't know about German script would only fill the >Great Lakes. So I'm happy to help where I can. I'm actually pretty good >with the script, but do make rare mistakes on a letter or two. Ewald and >Etienne have both corrected me from time to time, although there is one >record which we dispute what it says. But then I still make mistakes on >some French documents, and many on my Aunt's English handwriting. But >she's an atrocious speller too! > >> >> Best Regards, >> >> Auf Wiedersehen, >> >> Linda >> >> P.S. Do you have the name of the Edna Bentz book. I would like to order >> one. > >"If I Can, You Can Decipher German Records" > >Edna died several years back and one of her children continued selling >them (after getting numerous requests). She used to sell them for $5, but >they are now $17 (or more if you are unlucky). The St. Louis Genealogy >Society sells them for $17 if you have a hard time finding a copy. > >I never did buy one, having multiple copies in my local library. Even at >$17 you might it's worth having. Not for me, as I can always check one out >or use the reference version if I need it. It was very handy when I first >started doing it. I had meant to buy a copy when they were $5. > >Best regards, >Brian > >Please don't be put off, if I sometimes come across as crash, harsh, rude, >impolite, or brusque. It's the medium. Writing is so impersonal, and >rarely captures my rather twisted, demented, Irish/German/Alsatian, >lighthearted, politically-incorrect, Dickensonian humor. I've had many >people want to punch my lights out, I think, because my words don't always >match up with what I'm trying to say. Not to mention, I'm often busy and >may over simplify an email or flood with with wandering, scattered, >disconnected thoughts. Like now. ;) > >-- >Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: >http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On Wed, February 13, 2013 11:49 am, Linda Passwaters wrote: > Greetings, > > You must have some knowledge of German in order for it to work for you. My I'm not sure how correct that is. But I have no ruler to measure it by. I've studied a dozen languages, and so am ill qualified to say it isn't so. Certainly it helps, but having a German dictionary handy and a few learning tools one can learn quite easily the basic to decipher much of what one will find in vital records. I would certainly not discourage someone by telling them they must have German knowledge to proceed. The brain is an amazingly agile tool. Often neglected for years and decades. > Mom is 86 and can read Sutterlin, but the German written word back in the > 1800s is like us trying to read very old English today. You must have an I find Old English fairly easy to read. but then, I'm a geek. > For example, > Mom is currently trying to translate a document that has the name, "von > Steiger" in the first line. The sutterlinschrift for an "S" looks very > much like our English "G". So as an English speaking person I would assume > the name is "von Geiger". There are many differences that with a little > time and patience a person might be able to translate. Using the > Sutterlinschrift chart can be helpful in determining if document refers to > the correct family name. That is not completely accurate. The sutterlinschrift "S" CAN look like a "G". It usually looks like a fish standing on it's head. Although, it can also look like a musical clef sign. Sutterlinschrift is also mostly a misnomer, as the actual sutterlinschrift name didn't come into use until very late, in an attempt to standardize the various forms of German script writing. I find these two pages much more useful in deciphering German writing. Upper case examples: http://www.suetterlinschrift.de/Lese/Kanzlei2.htm lower case examples: http://www.suetterlinschrift.de/Lese/Kanzlei1.htm I find it best when tackling a hard to read text is to make a table, and copy down a sample of each letter of the alphabet in the text. I rarely use such a technique anymore, but it's a useful learning aid. Names and dates are usually not too difficult to extract. Edna Bentz' book has an extensive listing of professions, diseases and causes of death and some standard wording used. There are some very complete German genealogical dictionaries and the Familysearch website has still further tools. This is a totally learnable skill that should be encouraged among amateur genealogists working records in Alsace and Germany, et al. I do use a table and letter example when working with Dutch and sometimes Danish, but only because I do so little work in Dutch and Dutch is often very sloppy and really, really hard. It can be done though. Yet, I still make mistakes, and I sometimes disagree with some of our very skilled German script readers here on a particular letter. Sometimes even when I'm wrong. ;) Brian

Would the family of Peter (Jean Pierre) Kieffer, wife Catherine Richert, and their two daughters Marguerite and Eve-Caterine be listed in the Alsace immigration/emmigration book? I beleive they traveled from Uhrwiller through Canada to the United States circa 1826-1829. Thanks in advance Monte LeBlanc

The following link leads to information about how the script form of the letters has changed with time from 1580 to 1935 with entries about each 50 years. https://www.familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Czech_Republic_Language_and_Languages Under "Language Aids" click the 2 links at "See the examples of the Czech Script Alphabet at a to m n to z " Henry Kuska

Brian, Thank you for setting the record straight. Yes, the little fish example is absolutely correct. I was just using a generalization to answer the question as to whether the suetterlinschrift site would be helpful. I assure you what I don't know about the German language and its written variants would fill an ocean. As you suggested it is a learnable skill and I hope to get better at it. I was very pleased with the suetterlinschrift sites you sent. They will be very helpful to us as we continue to work on a particularly difficult translation. Thank you for sharing the useful information. I hope you will allow me to keep your email address handily in case I have something I need advice on. Best Regards, Auf Wiedersehen, Linda P.S. Do you have the name of the Edna Bentz book. I would like to order one. On 2/13/13 5:43 PM, "Brian J Densmore" <brian@amason.net> wrote: >On Wed, February 13, 2013 11:49 am, Linda Passwaters wrote: >> Greetings, >> >> You must have some knowledge of German in order for it to work for you. >>My >I'm not sure how correct that is. But I have no ruler to measure it by. >I've studied a dozen languages, and so am ill qualified to say it isn't >so. >Certainly it helps, but having a German dictionary handy and a few >learning tools one can learn quite easily the basic to decipher much of >what one will find in vital records. I would certainly not discourage >someone by telling them they must have German knowledge to proceed. The >brain is an amazingly agile tool. Often neglected for years and decades. > >> Mom is 86 and can read Sutterlin, but the German written word back in >>the >> 1800s is like us trying to read very old English today. You must have an >I find Old English fairly easy to read. but then, I'm a geek. > >> For example, >> Mom is currently trying to translate a document that has the name, "von >> Steiger" in the first line. The sutterlinschrift for an "S" looks very >> much like our English "G". So as an English speaking person I would >>assume >> the name is "von Geiger". There are many differences that with a little >> time and patience a person might be able to translate. Using the >> Sutterlinschrift chart can be helpful in determining if document refers >>to >> the correct family name. >That is not completely accurate. The sutterlinschrift "S" CAN look like a >"G". It usually looks like a fish standing on it's head. Although, it can >also look like a musical clef sign. Sutterlinschrift is also mostly a >misnomer, as the actual sutterlinschrift name didn't come into use until >very late, in an attempt to standardize the various forms of German script >writing. > >I find these two pages much more useful in deciphering German writing. > >Upper case examples: >http://www.suetterlinschrift.de/Lese/Kanzlei2.htm > >lower case examples: >http://www.suetterlinschrift.de/Lese/Kanzlei1.htm > >I find it best when tackling a hard to read text is to make a table, and >copy down a sample of each letter of the alphabet in the text. I rarely >use such a technique anymore, but it's a useful learning aid. Names and >dates are usually not too difficult to extract. Edna Bentz' book has an >extensive listing of professions, diseases and causes of death and some >standard wording used. There are some very complete German genealogical >dictionaries and the Familysearch website has still further tools. > >This is a totally learnable skill that should be encouraged among amateur >genealogists working records in Alsace and Germany, et al. > >I do use a table and letter example when working with Dutch and sometimes >Danish, but only because I do so little work in Dutch and Dutch is often >very sloppy and really, really hard. It can be done though. Yet, I still >make mistakes, and I sometimes disagree with some of our very skilled >German script readers here on a particular letter. Sometimes even when I'm >wrong. ;) > >Brian > > >-- >Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: >http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Yes, I too utilize my friends. I am lucky to have just met a lovely lady from France who also can read some German. I haven't had to use her help yet, but I am keeping her in my back pocket for just that purpose. I love the challenge of trying to figure out what these documents say. It is almost like a murder mystery in that everyone is dead and no one is talking. The contents of the document holds the clue to what happened and who the guilty party is. On 2/13/13 12:58 PM, "Sharon Waechter" <sharon@farwestern.com> wrote: >Well said, Linda! I find my (limited) knowledge of German and French very >helpful, but only to a point. When all else fails, our friends Etienne >and Ewald are wonderfully helpful. > >Sharon > >________________________________________ >From: alsace-lorraine-bounces@rootsweb.com >[alsace-lorraine-bounces@rootsweb.com] on behalf of Linda Passwaters >[lpasswaters@suddenlink.net] >Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 9:49 AM >To: alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [A-L] Translation question - useful script program - how >does the program help? > >Greetings, > >You must have some knowledge of German in order for it to work for you. My >Mom is 86 and can read Sutterlin, but the German written word back in the >1800s is like us trying to read very old English today. You must have an >understanding of the language and grammar and also a knowledge of how the >language has changed. Very good eye sight is also helpful as most of these >documents were written with quill pens and has faded areas that are hard >to read. > >On the other hand, if you are trying to decipher names located in an old >Document it might help you figure out the name of a person. For example, >Mom is currently trying to translate a document that has the name, "von >Steiger" in the first line. The sutterlinschrift for an "S" looks very >much like our English "G". So as an English speaking person I would assume >the name is "von Geiger". There are many differences that with a little >time and patience a person might be able to translate. Using the >Sutterlinschrift chart can be helpful in determining if document refers to >the correct family name. > >I hope this helps, > >Regards, > >Linda Passwaters >New Bern, NC > > > >On 2/12/13 10:49 AM, "ellied5@bellsouth.net" <ellied5@bellsouth.net> >wrote: > >>Pardon my ignorance but how does this program help? Ellie >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Henry Kuska >>Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 10:34 AM >>To: alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com >>Subject: Re: [A-L] Translation question - useful script program >> >>I find this program useful. >> >>http://www.suetterlinschrift.de/Englisch/Write_your_name.htm >> >> >> >>-------------------------------------------------- >>From: "Ludwig Feist" <ludwigf@gra.midco.net> >>Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 17:49 >>To: <alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com> >>Subject: [A-L] Translation question >> >>> I found a record wriiten in a civil book circa circa 1800-1804. It is >>> written in a really unreadable (for me) french/german script. >>> I have looked at it every way possible and it just looks like scribble >>>to >>> me. >>> >>> Any suggestion on where I should go get this translated?? >>> If any one on this list is good with script writings I would love to >>>hear >>> from you. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: >>> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>>without >>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >>-- >>Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: >>http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm >> >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>the >>quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >>-- >>Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: >>http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm >> >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >-- >Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: >http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >-- >Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: >http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

FYI, Fraktur is something very different from German script writing. Although, both are very closely related to Chicken Scratch. But not nearly so close as is Dutch. But FamilySearch does have many handy tools and learning aids. Well worth the visit. Be careful! It may be a very addicting site for the inquisitive minded. You have been warned. Brian On Wed, February 13, 2013 10:22 am, Laura Aanenson wrote: > There are free lessons on FamilySearch which might be useful. If the text > you have contains Fraktur or German script, you may find this link > helpful: > https://familysearch.org/learningcenter/lesson/german-script-tutorial/91

Greetings, You must have some knowledge of German in order for it to work for you. My Mom is 86 and can read Sutterlin, but the German written word back in the 1800s is like us trying to read very old English today. You must have an understanding of the language and grammar and also a knowledge of how the language has changed. Very good eye sight is also helpful as most of these documents were written with quill pens and has faded areas that are hard to read. On the other hand, if you are trying to decipher names located in an old Document it might help you figure out the name of a person. For example, Mom is currently trying to translate a document that has the name, "von Steiger" in the first line. The sutterlinschrift for an "S" looks very much like our English "G". So as an English speaking person I would assume the name is "von Geiger". There are many differences that with a little time and patience a person might be able to translate. Using the Sutterlinschrift chart can be helpful in determining if document refers to the correct family name. I hope this helps, Regards, Linda Passwaters New Bern, NC On 2/12/13 10:49 AM, "ellied5@bellsouth.net" <ellied5@bellsouth.net> wrote: >Pardon my ignorance but how does this program help? Ellie > >-----Original Message----- >From: Henry Kuska >Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 10:34 AM >To: alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [A-L] Translation question - useful script program > >I find this program useful. > >http://www.suetterlinschrift.de/Englisch/Write_your_name.htm > > > >-------------------------------------------------- >From: "Ludwig Feist" <ludwigf@gra.midco.net> >Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 17:49 >To: <alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com> >Subject: [A-L] Translation question > >> I found a record wriiten in a civil book circa circa 1800-1804. It is >> written in a really unreadable (for me) french/german script. >> I have looked at it every way possible and it just looks like scribble >>to >> me. >> >> Any suggestion on where I should go get this translated?? >> If any one on this list is good with script writings I would love to >>hear >> from you. >> >> >> -- >> Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >-- >Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: >http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >-- >Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: >http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

There are free lessons on FamilySearch which might be useful. If the text you have contains Fraktur or German script, you may find this link helpful: https://familysearch.org/learningcenter/lesson/german-script-tutorial/91 On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 11:01 AM, Henry Kuska <kuska@neo.rr.com> wrote: > I type in key words and the program gives me the script form to compare > with > what is in the document. > -------------------------------------------------- > From: <ellied5@bellsouth.net> > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 10:49 > To: <alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com> > Subject: Re: [A-L] Translation question - useful script program > > > Pardon my ignorance but how does this program help? Ellie > >

Interesting. Of course, it won't translate completely but might help some. Gloria Ishida "Genealogy. An account of one's descent from an ancestor who did not particularly care to trace his own." Ambrose Bierce

Karen, I will check my copies of the Alsace Emigration Book. Sharon Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. George Santayana -----Original Message----- From: alsace-lorraine-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:alsace-lorraine-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Karen Crisalli Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 5:13 PM To: alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com Subject: [A-L] Alsace immigration/emmigration book look up Can some look up and see if my GGGF or siblings are listed in the book - most likely 1830 - Variants of the spelling of his last name were GAUNY, GAUNEY, GAUNE, JAUNE, GONEY, GONET. He was Jean Napoleon GAUNY in America and was only 5 when he came over. He MAY have travelled with an older sister (Marguerite possibly?) or she may have been old enough to be married and travelling under her (unknown) married name. Various sources I have say he was born in 1825 and came here when he was five. We do not know what part of France he came FROM, but research shows that the majority of the few people with this name were concentrated in the A-L area. Can't find their original arrival records in America, so I thought I would work backwards and try their departure instead. Twenty + years of research have failed to find his birthplace or parentage L Are there other resources I could check regarding departures from France to America in the 1830 time period? Thanks Karen Gauny Crisalli South Carolina, USA -- Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Can some look up and see if my GGGF or siblings are listed in the book - most likely 1830 - Variants of the spelling of his last name were GAUNY, GAUNEY, GAUNE, JAUNE, GONEY, GONET. He was Jean Napoleon GAUNY in America and was only 5 when he came over. He MAY have travelled with an older sister (Marguerite possibly?) or she may have been old enough to be married and travelling under her (unknown) married name. Various sources I have say he was born in 1825 and came here when he was five. We do not know what part of France he came FROM, but research shows that the majority of the few people with this name were concentrated in the A-L area. Can't find their original arrival records in America, so I thought I would work backwards and try their departure instead. Twenty + years of research have failed to find his birthplace or parentage L Are there other resources I could check regarding departures from France to America in the 1830 time period? Thanks Karen Gauny Crisalli South Carolina, USA

I type in key words and the program gives me the script form to compare with what is in the document. -------------------------------------------------- From: <ellied5@bellsouth.net> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 10:49 To: <alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [A-L] Translation question - useful script program > Pardon my ignorance but how does this program help? Ellie > > -----Original Message----- > From: Henry Kuska > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 10:34 AM > To: alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [A-L] Translation question - useful script program > > I find this program useful. > > http://www.suetterlinschrift.de/Englisch/Write_your_name.htm > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Ludwig Feist" <ludwigf@gra.midco.net> > Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 17:49 > To: <alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com> > Subject: [A-L] Translation question > >> I found a record wriiten in a civil book circa circa 1800-1804. It is >> written in a really unreadable (for me) french/german script. >> I have looked at it every way possible and it just looks like scribble to >> me. >> >> Any suggestion on where I should go get this translated?? >> If any one on this list is good with script writings I would love to hear >> from you. >> >> >> -- >> Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > -- > Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > -- > Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Pardon my ignorance but how does this program help? Ellie -----Original Message----- From: Henry Kuska Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 10:34 AM To: alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [A-L] Translation question - useful script program I find this program useful. http://www.suetterlinschrift.de/Englisch/Write_your_name.htm -------------------------------------------------- From: "Ludwig Feist" <ludwigf@gra.midco.net> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 17:49 To: <alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com> Subject: [A-L] Translation question > I found a record wriiten in a civil book circa circa 1800-1804. It is > written in a really unreadable (for me) french/german script. > I have looked at it every way possible and it just looks like scribble to > me. > > Any suggestion on where I should go get this translated?? > If any one on this list is good with script writings I would love to hear > from you. > > > -- > Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I find this program useful. http://www.suetterlinschrift.de/Englisch/Write_your_name.htm -------------------------------------------------- From: "Ludwig Feist" <ludwigf@gra.midco.net> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 17:49 To: <alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com> Subject: [A-L] Translation question > I found a record wriiten in a civil book circa circa 1800-1804. It is > written in a really unreadable (for me) french/german script. > I have looked at it every way possible and it just looks like scribble to > me. > > Any suggestion on where I should go get this translated?? > If any one on this list is good with script writings I would love to hear > from you. > > > -- > Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Laura, You wrote: << Jean Bouché L’an 1737 le 26 Avril ent decede Jean Bouché maître maréchal ferrant age environ de quarante trois ans muni des sacrements vistique I ar inhumé onetion a été enterré le 27 dans l' église. >> Here what I read: Jean Bouché - L’an 1737 le 26 Avril est décédé Jean Bouché maître maréchal ferrand agé environ de quarante trois ans, muni des sts (saints) sacrements de pénitence, viatique, et extrême onction, a été enterré le 27 dans l'église In English: Jean Bouché - year 1737 April 26 were deceased Jean Bouché master blacksmith about age forty-three years, received the sacraments of penance, viaticum and extreme unction, was buried on 27 (April) in the church. Ewald -------------------------------------------------- From: "Laura Aanenson" <where2look4ancestors@gmail.com> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 1:32 AM To: <ALSACE-LORRAINE@rootsweb.com> Subject: [A-L] 1737 death record help please - Jean Bouché > In the record I shared earlier today, Française Adam was listed as the > widow of Jean Bouché. I located Jean's death record at < > http://www.archivesnumerisees57.com/mdr/index.html> in Boulay 1731-1738 > image # 104 in the middle of the page on the right. > > My transcription/translation needs some work - would sks please help? > > > Jean Bouché L’an 1737 le 26 Avril ent decede Jean Bouché maître maréchal > ferrant age environ de quarante trois ans muni des sacrements vistique I > ar > inhumé onetion a été enterré le 27 dans l' église. > > Jean Bouché year 1737 April 26 were deceased Jean Bouché master blacksmith > about age forty-three years provided the sacraments of penance vistique I > ar buried onetion was buried 27 in the church. > > Thank you in advance! > > Relatively speaking, > > Laura > > PS: Are we related? Find out at http://where2look4ancestors.com/ > -- > Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Laura, You wrote: << And what are the letters before the two Jean's occupations? It looks like mne, an abbreviation perhaps? But for what word? >> The abbreviation is <<Mre>> for the word "maître" (maître cordonnier/maître maréchal ferrand = master shoemaker/ master blacksmith ) << There are two Schmidt signatures; Simon and what appears to be Nicolas. The longer Schmidt signature is just below the record but looks awfully lengthy for the short name Jean. Any suggestions about what that might say? >> There are 3 signatures similar to Schmidt: - Johannes (= Jean) SCHMID(T) - Niklaus (= Nicolas) SCHMIT - Simon SCHMITT Ewald -------------------------------------------------- From: "Laura Aanenson" <where2look4ancestors@gmail.com> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 10:16 PM To: <ALSACE-LORRAINE@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [A-L] Schmitt & Adam marriage record more help please > Ewald helped me with portions of the 1739 marriage record I'm working on. > (Thank you again for your help Ewald!) > > I tried to transcribe and translate the rest of the record (see below) and > could use additional help please. In particular, the words squeezed > between > Anne and Française's names - I'm guessing they refer to Mr. Bettinger's > signature at the end of the record. He must be a relative of Jean's > deceased wife - is the first name Bartholomew? > > And what are the letters before the two Jean's occupations? It looks like > mne, an abbreviation perhaps? But for what word? > > There are two Schmidt signatures; Simon and what appears to be Nicolas. > The > longer Schmidt signature is just below the record but looks awfully > lengthy > for the short name Jean. Any suggestions about what that might say? > > Many thanks to anyone who can help me complete this record: > > L’an mil Sept cens trente neuf, après la publication de bans de mariage > faite dans laforme prescripte par lasse eglife sans opposition > quelconcque, > des fiançailles celebrees le trente aoust ont reçu la bénédiction nuptial > le second Septembre Jean Schmidt nme cordonnier et veuf de le défunte Anne > Catherine Bettinger et Française Adam veuve défunte Jean Bouché en son > vivant mne maréchal ferrant en presence d’autre post en presence de leures > parens et témoin soussignés. > > > > In the year 1739, after the marriage banns were unopposed, celebrated > their > engagement August 30th and received the nuptial blessing [were married] on > the second of September Jean Schmidt nme shoemaker and widower of the late > Catherine Anne Bettinger and Française Adam widow of the late Jean Bouché > who made his living as a blacksmith the presence of the undersigned > witnesses and relatives .Alpha > > Relatively speaking, > > Laura > > PS: Are we related? Find out at http://where2look4ancestors.com/ > -- > Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I found a record wriiten in a civil book circa circa 1800-1804. It is written in a really unreadable (for me) french/german script. I have looked at it every way possible and it just looks like scribble to me. Any suggestion on where I should go get this translated?? If any one on this list is good with script writings I would love to hear from you.

Thank you Ewald - your help is invaluable. I'm adding the words you teach me to my dictionary. I hope to get better at reading these records myself - some day! :o) I had to look for the meaning of the English words too! I am Lutheran and unfamiliar with the specifics of last rites. This death record provided a great learning opportunity. Thank you for walking me through it. Laura On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 3:58 PM, Ewald K. <ewald.klein@gmail.com> wrote: > Laura, > > You wrote: > << Jean Bouché L’an 1737 le 26 Avril ent decede Jean Bouché maître maréchal > ferrant age environ de quarante trois ans muni des sacrements vistique I ar > inhumé onetion a été enterré le 27 dans l' église. >> > > Here what I read: > > Jean Bouché - L’an 1737 le 26 Avril est décédé Jean Bouché maître maréchal > ferrand agé environ de quarante trois ans, muni des sts (saints) sacrements > de pénitence, viatique, et extrême onction, a été enterré le 27 dans > l'église > > In English: Jean Bouché - year 1737 April 26 were deceased Jean Bouché > master blacksmith > about age forty-three years, received the sacraments of penance, viaticum > and extreme unction, > was buried on 27 (April) in the church. > > Ewald > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Laura Aanenson" <where2look4ancestors@gmail.com> > Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 1:32 AM > To: <ALSACE-LORRAINE@rootsweb.com> > Subject: [A-L] 1737 death record help please - Jean Bouché > > > In the record I shared earlier today, Française Adam was listed as the > > widow of Jean Bouché. I located Jean's death record at < > > http://www.archivesnumerisees57.com/mdr/index.html> in Boulay 1731-1738 > > image # 104 in the middle of the page on the right. > > > > My transcription/translation needs some work - would sks please help? > > > > > > Jean Bouché L’an 1737 le 26 Avril ent decede Jean Bouché maître maréchal > > ferrant age environ de quarante trois ans muni des sacrements vistique I > > ar > > inhumé onetion a été enterré le 27 dans l' église. > > > > Jean Bouché year 1737 April 26 were deceased Jean Bouché master > blacksmith > > about age forty-three years provided the sacraments of penance vistique I > > ar buried onetion was buried 27 in the church. > > > > Thank you in advance! > > > > Relatively speaking, > > > > Laura > > > > PS: Are we related? Find out at http://where2look4ancestors.com/ > > -- > > Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > -- > Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Relatively speaking, Laura PS: Are we related? Find out at http://where2look4ancestors.com/

Ah ha! Very helpful Ewald - thank you! Were you able to read the words squeezed between Anne and Française's names? Do they just refer to Mr. Bettinger? I was hoping maybe they identified his connection to the couple... On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 11:20 AM, Ewald K. <ewald.klein@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Laura, > > You wrote: << And what are the letters before the two Jean's occupations? > It > looks like > mne, an abbreviation perhaps? But for what word? >> > > The abbreviation is <<Mre>> for the word "maître" (maître cordonnier/maître > maréchal ferrand = master shoemaker/ master blacksmith ) > > << There are two Schmidt signatures; Simon and what appears to be Nicolas. > The > longer Schmidt signature is just below the record but looks awfully lengthy > for the short name Jean. Any suggestions about what that might say? >> > > There are 3 signatures similar to Schmidt: > - Johannes (= Jean) SCHMID(T) > - Niklaus (= Nicolas) SCHMIT > - Simon SCHMITT > > Ewald > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Laura Aanenson" <where2look4ancestors@gmail.com> > Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 10:16 PM > To: <ALSACE-LORRAINE@rootsweb.com> > Subject: Re: [A-L] Schmitt & Adam marriage record more help please > > > Ewald helped me with portions of the 1739 marriage record I'm working on. > > (Thank you again for your help Ewald!) > > > > I tried to transcribe and translate the rest of the record (see below) > and > > could use additional help please. In particular, the words squeezed > > between > > Anne and Française's names - I'm guessing they refer to Mr. Bettinger's > > signature at the end of the record. He must be a relative of Jean's > > deceased wife - is the first name Bartholomew? > > > > And what are the letters before the two Jean's occupations? It looks like > > mne, an abbreviation perhaps? But for what word? > > > > There are two Schmidt signatures; Simon and what appears to be Nicolas. > > The > > longer Schmidt signature is just below the record but looks awfully > > lengthy > > for the short name Jean. Any suggestions about what that might say? > > > > Many thanks to anyone who can help me complete this record: > > > > L’an mil Sept cens trente neuf, après la publication de bans de mariage > > faite dans laforme prescripte par lasse eglife sans opposition > > quelconcque, > > des fiançailles celebrees le trente aoust ont reçu la bénédiction nuptial > > le second Septembre Jean Schmidt nme cordonnier et veuf de le défunte > Anne > > Catherine Bettinger et Française Adam veuve défunte Jean Bouché en son > > vivant mne maréchal ferrant en presence d’autre post en presence de > leures > > parens et témoin soussignés. > > > > > > > > In the year 1739, after the marriage banns were unopposed, celebrated > > their > > engagement August 30th and received the nuptial blessing [were married] > on > > the second of September Jean Schmidt nme shoemaker and widower of the > late > > Catherine Anne Bettinger and Française Adam widow of the late Jean > Bouché > > who made his living as a blacksmith the presence of the undersigned > > witnesses and relatives .Alpha > > > > Relatively speaking, > > > > Laura > > > > PS: Are we related? Find out at http://where2look4ancestors.com/ > > -- > > Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > -- > Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Relatively speaking, Laura PS: Are we related? Find out at http://where2look4ancestors.com/