In a message dated 5/22/2008 3:45:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ewald.klein@gmail.com writes: (reply below) You are lucky! Here is the family: Morand JUD, cooper (tonnelier), 48 years old in May 1859, born in Ranspach-le-Haut (Haut-Rhin, Alsace), left Ranspach-le-Haut in 1859, with his wife Anne-Marie ARGAST (and no Marie ''Auguste'') 51 years old, and his children: Anne (25 y), Anne-Marie (22), Joseph (17), Joséphine (15) and Aloyse* (13). They arrived at New-York in 1859. Source: ''Liste nominative des Haut-Rhinois ayant émigré en Amérique (1800-1870)'.' -------------- Thank you very much, Ewald. I have been studying this family for a while, especially in their settlement in America. This Morand Jud (Schutt) became a cabinetmaker and died in 1888. One of the problems, however, is that Aloyse (13) above appears quite differently on the ship's manifest ('Wm Tell' from Le Havre). They arrived in NYC on June 15, 1859. BUT - Aloise on the Manifest is listed as 9-1/2 years old, a difference of four years from the above. Is it possible that there was a price discount for children under the age of ten and they adjusted his age accordingly? And even more interesting is that the manifest claims this child was a girl, but he was, in reality, a boy! I found the Passport he later made, in 1889, where he was listed as "Alois L. Schutt." His father was indeed Morand Schutt (Jud). And Alois died in 1910 (in US). Another problem is that there were two other children in that family, Morand jr and Peter (Pierre?). They emigrated in the 1850s (first), a little earlier, but I cannot find them on any ship manifest. Most of these Schutts settled in Cleveland, Ohio, but some in Nebraska. Anyway, I hope I will eventually solve some of these mysteries, and also what the L. stood for, in Alois L. Schutt (Jud). He sometimes said he was born Jan 1, 1846 - he became a gunsmith and a locksmith. It would be great to locate a birth record for him. His second marriage, in the US (1877), was to a 'widow' named Mrs Anna P. Hefner. One of their children became a famous balloonist. Regards, Allen in USA **************Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)

It is very doubtful that one would lie about from where they were from, as they had immigration papers, etc. which stated where they were from, and 1901 was a long time away from WWI. Where did they settle? I have looked up Mathias but have not found him. Dorothy

A USA lit member responded rather fast with some information on the naturazation or citizenship papers on my Bendot Family quiriy John arrived abt 1902,from Germany. Joseph arrived abt 1903,from Germany but there was a Mathias Bendot,that arrived about 1901.from Germany.With the advent of WWll,did they lie about being from Germany.?

I am trying to find the origins of an ancestor who migrated to America in 1742 at the reported age of 26. I do not have a town or even a certainty that Alsace or Lorraine are the right regions. My purposes in writing are: 1. To leave a record that may help other researchers in the future, and 2. To ask if any on this list might provide guidance in pursuing this. His surname was spelled variously, depending on the native language of the writer and the idiosyncrasies of 18th century writers. He, himself, was illiterate and would not have had a preferred spelling for his name. (He learned to writ the letter D by the time he made his will.) Fortunately, his given name has only two variations, David & Davitt. For some time, I believed that the best clue to his origins was his statement in his 1754 New Jersey naturalization petition the he was "born in the Territories of the Elector Palatine." I have reasons (discussed below) to doubt that this is the whole story. He is listed in Strassburger-Hinke as having arrived on the Loyal Judith in September 1742 out of Rotterdam via Cowes. He appears on the "A", :B" & "C" lists as: David KEEL, David KELL, & Davitt SCHALL. Thorough analysis of the lists substantiate that these are all the same man. To reach Rotterdam, it's most likely that he would have traveled down the Rhine River. This implies that he began his journey from very near the river. In America, his surname was spelled as: KAIL, KALE, CALE, & CAIL, and a son's name was spelled CAILE & CAILLES. One branch of his descendants use the surname CALES. The main reason I doubt the Palatine (Rheinland-Pfalz) origin of his family is that this surname is very rare in Germany today, by any spelling. It is, however, more common on the southern bank of the Rhine River. Thank you for reading this. _rt_/)

Judy , By my research for Ray I found more informations about the family of Frey Maria Salome . Nicole

Hi Miriam, I don't think that we are distant cousin , ( only if you are connected with family MULLER from Mattstall ,Lembach? )T That was a research for Ray. Nicole

Nicole, Would you be willing to share the information about Maria Salome FREY? She is my 4th great grandmother. Judy ----- Original Message ---- From: ginic <nicole.gignoux@wanadoo.fr> To: alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2008 4:13:44 AM Subject: Re: [A-L] Diehlmann and Frey families of Wingen Judy , By my research for Ray I found more informations about the family of Frey Maria Salome . Nicole

Hi, The book von Dr Hein is about WINGEN sur Moder near Ingwiller FREY Maria Salome may be from Wingen near Lembach where I found the families OSSWALD ,FREY DIELMANN. Nicole

Well, I sure was not expecting the response I got from that quick posting. thanks everyone. Dave: Magdelena Frey and Frederick Oswalt were the parents of my Great-Grandfather, Louis Oswalt. After hitting another wall, someone (sorry cannot remember who at the moment) gave me the village of origin and I was able to find Louis's birth record in Wingen which confirmed his Parents. On the same film I was able to find their marriage record from 1816, but the rest of the date was unreadable on the film, unfortunately. This gave me their Parent's names. I ordered the next film, but as I recall it was really difficult to read because the exposure was too light. I then dove into other lines and have now made myway back into this particular branch. Nicole: I don't think it was me you did the research for originally, but what you have given me was beyond my wildest dreams. Always nice to meet another cousin, also. I live in Phoenix, Arizona and it went from being 110 on Monday to supposedly the high 70s by Friday. Weird weather. Judy: My Oswalts went from Wingen to Yates county New York, I believe. From there over to the Holmes/Knox county Ohio then over to the Mercer county Ohio/ Jay county Indiana area. Thanks again everyone, this has been a real good day!

Many an immigrant had there surname altered.which might be the case here.Do not ask for more information because I do not have any more to go on. Two brothers arrived in Pittsburg,Pennsylvania.from Alsace Lorraine. I have a Bendot famiy in Portsea and Southsea on the 1881 census.for Hampshire,England.I can not connect the "dots" I talked to a living relative in the USA.Both brothers were from Alsace Lorraine.

Hi Judy and Nicole- - You are both doing great- I have just added you to my list of distant cousins- contact me off line - I have more ! Miriam Hall-Hansen Miriam CW Hall-Hansen mchall@xmission.com "The point is that they lived"... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Judy" <diamndldy3@yahoo.com> To: <alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 2:55 PM Subject: Re: [A-L] Diehlmann and Frey families of Wingen > Hi Nicole, > > You are right!! > > Judy > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: ginic <nicole.gignoux@wanadoo.fr> > To: alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com > Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 4:21:40 PM > Subject: Re: [A-L] Diehlmann and Frey families of Wingen > > Hi, > The book von Dr Hein is about WINGEN sur Moder near Ingwiller > FREY Maria Salome may be from Wingen near Lembach where I found the > families OSSWALD ,FREY DIELMANN. > Nicole > > > > -- > Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Ray, Last information for today, SCHÄFER Maria Magdalena b may 1724 in Lampertsloch( RP Preuschdorf) daughter of Johann Michel SCHÄFER and ZINCK Magdalena SCHÄFER Johann Michel, x march 1713 ZINCK Magdalena daughter of Johann Jacob from Preuschdorf Nicole

Hi Ray, I just found in RP Wingen the mariage from FREY Georg Heinrich, 25 years old, son of + Michel Labourer x 31 august 1790 in Wingen DIELMANN Maria Catharina, 24 and half years old , daughter of Johann Daniel DIELMANN, labourer from Lembach. Wingen : 02 august 1765 ° Georg Heinrich FREY son of Johann Michel FREY, labourer and Maria Magdalena SCHÄFER WINGEN Johann Michel FREY, 23 years old son of Johannes FREY from Wingen x 07 may 1743 Wingen Maria Magdalena SCHÄFER 20 years old , daughter of + Hans Michel SCHÄFER from Lampertsloch WINGEN : ° FREY Johann Michel b 11 November 1720 son of Johann FREY ( + 17/02/1740) x SCHWEICKART Anna Margaretha WINGEN: FREY Johannes ° * 1694 + 17 February 1740 son of Melchior x 21 November 1719 Wingen Anna Margaretha SCHWEICKART ( ° 25 April 1701 ; + 12 august 1741)daghter of Johann Michel SCHWEIKART Melchior FREY b 19 april 1644 Ottenbach Canton Zurich Switzerland + 27 April 1723 Wingen x SCHMIDT Anna Catharina + 04 april 1732, buried at Wingen In his book :Families of Lembach ,Wingen, Climbach (1500- 1725) gives Dennis A. Kastens more informations about the parents of Melchior and Anna Catharina.and about the ancestors from SCHWEICKART Anna Margaretha . I think with all this informations your tree has mutch grown.Here in the french Alps the weather is bad with mutch rain!!!! Amitiés Nicole

Hi Nicole, You are right!! Judy ----- Original Message ---- From: ginic <nicole.gignoux@wanadoo.fr> To: alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 4:21:40 PM Subject: Re: [A-L] Diehlmann and Frey families of Wingen Hi, The book von Dr Hein is about WINGEN sur Moder near Ingwiller FREY Maria Salome may be from Wingen near Lembach where I found the families OSSWALD ,FREY DIELMANN. Nicole

Jim, All messages with my address and phone number that I want to send you since yesterday in reply to your answer, came back with this message : I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not be delivered to one or more recipients. Nicole

Hi Ray, I do a research in 2006 about the family OSSWALD x FREY but I don't remember if it was for you. WINGEN : In the death certificate from DIELMANN Catherine it's written that she is 82 years old, widow of Georges Henry FREY , born in LEMBACH daughter of Daniel DIELMANN and Maria Catherina SCHIELLEIN LEMBACH RP : Birth of DIELMANN Maria Catherina : 09 february 1766 in LEMBACH daughter of Daniel, labourer, and SCHIELEIN Marie Catherine Mariage 26 August 1749 Daniel DIELMANN, 33 years old son of Johann Michel DIELMANN labourer in Lembach and Maria Catharina SCHIELEIN, 27 years old, widow of FUCHS Johann Conrad , tailor Johann Jacob SCHIELLEIN sign as father from Maria Catharina. 02 dezember 1716 Lembach Birth of Johann Daniel DIEHLMANN son of Johann Michel DIEHLMANN and Suzanna MULLER(she is the daughter of my ancestry n° 668, so we are distant cousins ) For other informations I need more time for research All best Nicole

Judy, Yes, this is interesting. I went and checked all of Hein's books for Maria Salome FREY. Sometimes records for one town show up in another (I'm not sure why). But, I didn't find any Maria Salome FREY. I'm wondering what the source of your information is. Hein's book on Wingen is split into two sections: /Die Aufschlusselung der evangelisch - lutherischen Kirchenbucher von Wingen an der Moder, 1757 - 1789 (1792),/ and /Die Bearbeitung der katholischen Kirchenbucher von Wingen der Moder, 1749-1792./ I've always wondered if Hein's work was all inclusive - perhaps not. Dave Judy wrote: > Dave and Ray, > > This is interesting as I have both OSWALT/OSSWALD/OSWALD and FREY in Wingen back as far as 1740. My last OSSWALD birth in Wingen is for Johann Michael OSSWALD (b. 13MAR1793 - d. 1877 in Amherst, Erie County, New York). My last FREY birth in Wingen is Maria Salome FREY (b. 07MAR1765). > > Judy > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Dave Francis <dave.francis@sbcglobal.net> > To: alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com > Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 12:56:43 AM > Subject: Re: [A-L] Diehlmann and Frey families of Wingen > > Ray, > Do you have more exact dates? Gerhard Hein's book on Weinburg > gives a Georg FREY born 1.2.1792 and a Johann Georg FREY born > 8.10.1766. However, that same books shows no OSWALTs. Hein shows the > name FREY occurring in over 50 villages in this area. The name > DIELEMANN appears only in one book (no matches). DIELMANN appears in 4 > books (no matches). This name could have been TIEHLMANN/TIELMANN. The > books on Wingen shows not FREYs or OSWALTs. > Have you looked at the civil records for Wingen (1793-1902)? > > Dave > > Ray Gross wrote: > >> Hello all, >> >> I am seeking some info on the Parents of Magdelena Frey, wife of Frederick Oswalt of Wingen. I know their names were George Henry Frey and Catharine Diehlmann and that Catherine Diehlmann died in Wingen on the 30th of January, 1848. But other than that I have hit of a bit of a wall. >> >> Any help appreciated. >> >> Raymond Gross >> > > > >

Dave and Ray, This is interesting as I have both OSWALT/OSSWALD/OSWALD and FREY in Wingen back as far as 1740. My last OSSWALD birth in Wingen is for Johann Michael OSSWALD (b. 13MAR1793 - d. 1877 in Amherst, Erie County, New York). My last FREY birth in Wingen is Maria Salome FREY (b. 07MAR1765). Judy ----- Original Message ---- From: Dave Francis <dave.francis@sbcglobal.net> To: alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 12:56:43 AM Subject: Re: [A-L] Diehlmann and Frey families of Wingen Ray, Do you have more exact dates? Gerhard Hein's book on Weinburg gives a Georg FREY born 1.2.1792 and a Johann Georg FREY born 8.10.1766. However, that same books shows no OSWALTs. Hein shows the name FREY occurring in over 50 villages in this area. The name DIELEMANN appears only in one book (no matches). DIELMANN appears in 4 books (no matches). This name could have been TIEHLMANN/TIELMANN. The books on Wingen shows not FREYs or OSWALTs. Have you looked at the civil records for Wingen (1793-1902)? Dave Ray Gross wrote: > Hello all, > > I am seeking some info on the Parents of Magdelena Frey, wife of Frederick Oswalt of Wingen. I know their names were George Henry Frey and Catharine Diehlmann and that Catherine Diehlmann died in Wingen on the 30th of January, 1848. But other than that I have hit of a bit of a wall. > > Any help appreciated. > > Raymond Gross

Ray, Do you have more exact dates? Gerhard Hein's book on Weinburg gives a Georg FREY born 1.2.1792 and a Johann Georg FREY born 8.10.1766. However, that same books shows no OSWALTs. Hein shows the name FREY occurring in over 50 villages in this area. The name DIELEMANN appears only in one book (no matches). DIELMANN appears in 4 books (no matches). This name could have been TIEHLMANN/TIELMANN. The books on Wingen shows not FREYs or OSWALTs. Have you looked at the civil records for Wingen (1793-1902)? Dave Ray Gross wrote: > Hello all, > > I am seeking some info on the Parents of Magdelena Frey, wife of Frederick Oswalt of Wingen. I know their names were George Henry Frey and Catharine Diehlmann and that Catherine Diehlmann died in Wingen on the 30th of January, 1848. But other than that I have hit of a bit of a wall. > > Any help appreciated. > > Raymond Gross > > > > >