Etienne, I too am related to the Guthnecks but they are from Duppigheim. I'm sure it is the same family. Do believe the name was unique. I have all the Catholic Church records for Duppigheim but not for Bischwiller. Do you have these two groups of Guthneck's tied together. Thank you, Steve haag ----- Original Message ----- From: "Etienne Herrbach" <etienne.herrbach@wanadoo.fr> To: <alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 5:42 AM Subject: [A-L] B. Obama's Alsatian roots > Hello Listers, > > as many of you are aware of, let me remind that the new President of > USA has Alsatian roots, in Bischwiller, Bas Rhin, precisely: > > http://cjoint.com/data/lhtTgjvwwt.htm > > http://www.wargs.com/political/obama.html > > Congratulations > > Etienne Herrbach > Alsace > > -- > Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On Tue, November 11, 2008 8:47 am, brian@amason.net wrote: > On Mon, November 10, 2008 3:27 pm, Nutmeg421@aol.com wrote: >> Brian, How do you contact the clerk in Bischwiller? My family >> information >> comes from primary sources for the most part. We were a very close >> family > You write to the Maire. See! I should have written Mairie. Here's the address: 9, place de la Mairie BP 10035 67241 BISCHWILLER CEDEX Fax : 03 88 53 99 65 etat-civil@bischwiller.com * Etat civil : Actes de naissance, de mariage, de décès, Reconnaissances Certificat d'Hérédité Tél : 03 88 53 99 47 So now you can write, fax, email or telephone the town clerk. Salut, Brian

On Mon, November 10, 2008 8:06 am, Etienne Herrbach wrote: > Hello, > > a few precisions on Brian's post : > >> Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 23:19:23 -0600 (CST) >> From: brian@amason.net >> >>> said he was born in Alsace. He was French and his native tongue was >>> French. >> Many Alsatians native tongue up until post WWII was Alsatian. Which >> is a >> Germanic dialect. Alsatians certainly spoke French and German, but >> Alsatian would have been the language of everyday use. > > Before WWI, very few Alsatians in the countryside understood French. > They spoke dialect and understood German. Particularly the newspapers > and the Catholic and Protestant worships were mainly in German (with > some local exceptions). I still disagree here. First I never said "every" Alsatian spoke French and German. Secondly pre-WWI local newspapers more commonly in Alsatian. Not French or German. Still I would have expected Catholic worships to be in Latin. > >>> Loraine borders partly on Hesse-Darmstadt. > > No, Lorraine borders with Palatinate and Saarland. That is of course correct. Not sure where I got that. > >>> Alsace and Lorraine were a part of Prussia for a period of time. > > Alsace and Moselle were part of the German Empire ruled by the > Prussians, between 1871 and 1918. No Elsass and Lothringen were part of the German Empire. Moselle was created from the province of Lorraine in the 1780s. You can call it Moselle, put it doesn't alter the fact it was a part of Lorraine. Best regards, Brian

I suggest going to the ville itself (literally would be great) but ... http://www.ville-bischwiller.fr/ Information on the municipal officers and their positions are there. If you can't write in French yourself, have someone do it for you. It might be well to ask about the local churches; perhaps they will give you a link to someone who would be willing to check church records if they are held locally. Gloria

Le 10 nov. 08 à 21:29, alsace-lorraine-request@rootsweb.com a écrit : > Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 14:16:48 EST > From: Nutmeg421@aol.com > > In a message dated 11/10/08 10:18:04 AM, etienne.herrbach@wanadoo.fr > writes: >> Before WWI, very few Alsatians in the countryside understood >> French.?? >> They spoke dialect and understood German.? > > My grandfather knew French, as did my father who helped me with my > college > French. Of course, my grandfather died in the 1860s before Germany was > organized. He also spoke German and Italian, and learned English > when he came to > America. They left from LeHavre, not Hamburg, went to England and > left there for > America. My grandfather came to America very young, in about 1868. > He said he > arrived in NYC on Good Friday, 1867, but we found that to be untrue. > It was > probably 1868 or even earlier. If he was 18, it was 1866. They are > not listed in > the Germans to America books. Charles and Nicholas Becker. Jean, another idea (already raised by another lister): it was not uncommon that Alsatian emigrants didn't head to the USA directly. Some emigrated to one place for some time (Germany for instance), then to another, and finally to America. Etienne

On Mon, November 10, 2008 3:27 pm, Nutmeg421@aol.com wrote: > Brian, How do you contact the clerk in Bischwiller? My family information > comes from primary sources for the most part. We were a very close family You write to the Maire. Go to the town's website and the Maire's address is on the top of the page. It's a graphic otherwise I would have pasted in here. Rather than type it and goof it up, here is the homepage. http://www.ville-bischwiller.fr/index.php Be prepared for a very brief response if your ancestor is not from Bischwiller. While I got a very quick response it was also very brief. Be sure to include sufficient information. If at all possible write in French. There are a number of templates available on line. (I also wrote in both, when I have written) Good luck hunting. Best wishes, Brian

Hello, Ralph, you wrote: > Etienne has pointed out how Bavaria's rule of Alsace & Lorraine > began in > 1816 and Prussia's rule followed the Franco-Prussian War of 1871. Sorry Ralph, you misread my posts. Bavaria has NEVER ruled Alsace nor Lorraine. In 1816, Alsace and Lorraine were French. Alsace, at least the major part of it, was French from 1648 to 1871 without interruption. Etienne Le 10 nov. 08 à 21:29, alsace-lorraine-request@rootsweb.com a écrit : > Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 12:52:59 -0700 > From: "Ralph Taylor" <rt-sails@comcast.net> > > Etienne, merci beaucoup for your information on the ruler-ship > changes for > the Alsace (Elzass) and Lorraine (Lothringen) regions. This is a > complicated > subject and worthy of an organized approach, as it is the source of > much > confusion. > > Which leads to: ".. I'm more confused than ever. On census records > he always > said he was born in Alsace." > > If it is true that "Adam Becker and his wife Maria Brunon Becker > were killed > in the 1860s.", they could have appeared only in TWO (2) of the US > decennial > censuses which would list them specifically by name and give their > birth > places -- 1850 & 1860. Censuses before 1850 did not list individuals > (only > households, by name of the head of household) nor did they contain > birthplace information. So, "always" is being used loosely, I think. > > Further, the "always" statement conflicts with "In later census > records he > said he was born in Bavaria or Prussia." Is it "always Alsace" or > "later > Bavaria or Prussia"? > > Adam, having died, is unlikely to have said anything in 1870 or > later. I > suspect the "later" statements to be from or about the Becker > children's > birthplaces of their parents -- not direct statements by Adam or > Maria. > Therefore, 1870 and after censuses are, at best, secondary sources. > > It is common for US census information about birthplaces -- especially > foreign ones -- to be misleading. Sometimes, neighbors would give > information in the absence of actual knowledge. Sometimes, the > enumerated > would interpret their birthplaces or their parents' birthplaces to > the > current political situation. > > Etienne has pointed out how Bavaria's rule of Alsace & Lorraine > began in > 1816 and Prussia's rule followed the Franco-Prussian War of 1871. > -rt_/)

Hello listers, A couple of items. The hardest name I have tried to research in Alsace has been my 3 and 4 grgrandmothers, whom by oral tradition, had the last name of BAKER, first names of Mary and Rachel respectively.. I am keeping the option of BECKER open as a possiblity of a surmane. Rachel's headstone has her last name as JOHNS. But, according to oral tradition, her husband died aboard ship to the US and was buried at sea. His first name was John. Now, this family had a tradition of changing their names in the States, as my 3grgrandfather, married to Mary, changed his name from PFEIFFENBERGER to PIFER once in America. So, the JOHNS on the tombstone is most likely a changed over name from BAKER or BECKER or BAEKER. (The E would've been an umlaut over the A in German/Alsatian). Rachel is a common Jewish name, but, she is buried in a Catholic cemetery in Rochester, NY. So, don't give up on BECKER. Now, my PFEIFFENBERGER grgrandfather lived over the border of Alsace in the German Palatine. His military discharge papers were from the state of BAVARIA and listed his hometown as Hauenstein, BAVARIA. During his time(b. 1817-left military in 1845), this area was Bavaria. Oral tradition has his father as a "keeper" in the Black Forest, whatever a keeper was (toll collector?). However, Hauenstein is smack dab in the middle of the Palatine Forest (beautiful-I've been there). You can hike through this forest right along the border with Alsace. I really think he was a keeper in the Palatine forest. So, I am wondering, did my 3grgrandfather meet his prospective wife on route to America or in Europe, being that Alsace and what was Bavaria, at that time were so close together. One can only speculate, but, one could see Alsace from the lookout in the Palatine forest near Hauenstein when I was there 5 years ago. Hope this helps. If you think we have a Becker/Baker connection, please contact me. I have no idea where to start searching for this family! Thanks, Lisa Swovick Rochester, NY ----- Original Message ----- From: <Nutmeg421@aol.com> To: <alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 7:56 PM Subject: Re: [A-L] Bischwiller > > In a message dated 11/9/08 11:49:50 AM, wasieerick@milwpc.com writes: > > > > I think it might be easier to try to track "Brunon. > > > > Brunon is a very common name mostly in Lorraine. She was Catholic. I do not > know about Adam Becker. He may have been Jewish, but he was not Catholic. I do > not think Adam Becker ever moved from where he was born, in Alsace. He died > there. Someone has to recognize them eventually. You have given me hope. Thanks. > > > > ************** > AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other > Holiday needs. Search Now. > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir=htt p://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from- > aol-search/?ncid=emlcntussear00000001) > -- > Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.9.0/1777 - Release Date: 11/9/2008 9:53 AM > >

On Mon, November 10, 2008 1:16 pm, Nutmeg421@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 11/10/08 10:18:04 AM, etienne.herrbach@wanadoo.fr > writes: > > >> Before WWI, very few Alsatians in the countryside understood French. >> They spoke dialect and understood German. >> > > My grandfather knew French, as did my father who helped me with my college > French. Of course, my grandfather died in the 1860s before Germany was As did my grandmother, and her parents.

In a message dated 11/11/08 12:55:26 AM, etienne.herrbach@wanadoo.fr writes: > Jean, > > another idea (already raised by another lister): it was not uncommon  > that Alsatian emigrants didn't head to the USA directly > Mine went to England.At least they left from England. I think many went there first and the Queen sent them to America.These were two very young men, 18 and 12. ************** AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other Holiday needs. Search Now. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir=http://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays- from-aol-search/?ncid=emlcntussear00000001)

Hi Paul, The Catholic community of Oeting was in the parish of Kerbach (located 2 km east of Oeting) before 1802, then in the parish of Forbach between 1802-1872. The Catholic parish of Oeting exists since 1872. (Source: book ''Das Reichsland Elsass-Lothringen" 1901-1903 ). St. Nikolaus, Saar (Germany) is located 6 km west of Oeting. There is a book about the << Inhabitants of St Nikolaus between 1696-1900 >> microfilm: FHL INTL Film [ 1858641 Item 6 ] Title Die Einwohner von St. Nikolaus von 1696-1900 Stmnt.Resp. Otto Treinen, Werner Weiter Authors Treinen, Otto (Main Author) Weiter, Werner (Added Author) Notes "Quellenverzeichnis": S. xi. Mit Index. Access in Europe limited to members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Family lineage book for Sankt Nikolaus, Rheinland, Germany. Subjects Germany, Preußen, Rheinland, Sankt Nikolaus - Genealogy Format Books/Monographs (On Film) Language German Publication [Ludweiler] : Heimatkundlicher Verein Warndt, 1983 Physical xi, 262 S. : Ill., Faksim., Kt., Portr. Film Notes Note - Location [Film] Die Einwohner von St. Nikolaus von 1696-1900 - FHL INTL Film [ 1858641 Item 6 ] Ewald +++++++++++++++++++++ ----- Original Message ----- From: "P.& K.Wingert" <pkwingert@accesscomm.ca> To: <alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 7:56 PM Subject: [A-L] Records for Oeting > Hi All, > I'm looking for information about Margarite Gill(e) born in Oeting > in > the early 1700s (parents were Ludovic Gill and Justina Lang). > > She died in St. Nikolaus, Saar on 24 May 1759. > > The LDS only has records listed for after 1793 and I was wondering > if the earlier records may have been combined with another village or > town? > > Paul Wingert, Regina, SK > > --

>Hi fellow Canadian-- Go to LDS family search site- - - get the Library catalogue- - - then go to KEYWORD.- - - then put in the word Orting- - - I think you will be surprised what is available for Oeting. Most people will go to the cataloge, and do not use this also. Many things are not in the catalogue the way WE think they should be and this is a good source also. Miriam Hall Hansen Many thanks, Miriam, on behalf of this non-Canadian, too, who had not thought to use the KEYWORD search on the FHL Catalog search page! I've now discovered, thanks to KEYWORD, that Niederroedern (Bas-Rhin) is included in a canton/county-wide Civil Registration Index 1813-1882 as well as its own municipal index. Here's this new (to me) source: Tables décennales, 1813-1882: Seltz (Bas-Rhin : Canton). Greffe du Tribunal d'Instance Microfilmage des originaux dans les Archives départementales, Strasbourg. Le canton de Seltz comprend les communes de: Seltz, Aschbach, Beinheim, Buhl, Croettwiller, Eberbach-Seltz, Kesseldorf, Mothern, Munchhausen, NIEDERROEDERN, Oberlauterbach, Schaffhouse-pres-Seltz, Siegen, Stund- willer, Trimbach, et Wintzenbach. Ten year indexes for the canton of Seltz, Bas-Rhin, France (also called Selz, Elsaß-Lothringen, Germany). Text in French and German. 1813-1832 FHL INTL Film 742564 1833-1842 FHL INTL Film 742565 1843-1862 FHL INTL Film 742566 1863-1872 FHL INTL Film 1165948 Item 1 1813-1832 (un autre filmage) FHL INTL Film 797389 1833-1862 (un autre filmage) FHL INTL Film 797390 1873-1882 FHL INTL Film 1733512 Item 3 I've some questions for our experts, please: 1. Can anyone comment on the differences (or similarities) between the municipal/Niederroedern registration indexes (which I've already used, and have on indefinite loan at the local FHC) and these county indexes? Would it make sense to look at these too? 2. Can anyone tell me whether there's an advantage to utilizing 2nd filmings rather than the original films? Were 2nd filmings done exclusively in cases of poor microfilming originally? Or were there different reasons? 3. Since there's only indexes and no listing of actual records in the canton films, am I correct that one must then go to the municipality/Niederroedern civil reg: b/m/d records for the actual records, once identified in the indexes. In other words, the municipality sent copies of the indexes only to the county level? Thanks for your on the spot knowledge, experts! Cari Thomas

Jean, Is it possible that Laura died and Charles at some point remarried and was in a different location in Iowa than his original Iowa residence of Blackhawk? 1900 census Fayette County, Pleasant Valley Township, Elgin, Iowa Charles, b1849, birth self and parents Germany, married 2 years, became US citizen 1869, occupation tinsmith Estella, b 1857, born Iowa, parents in France, same I do suppose you have checked church records, cemeteries and newspapers; you have been so thorough - I'm sure it's so frustrating. Gloria On Nov 10, 2008, at 7:29 PM, Nutmeg421@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 11/9/08 8:57:22 PM, gfb-ishida@gol.com writes: > > >> Jean, >> >> Where did Charles (and Nicholas) settle in the United States? Do you >> know their professions? >> >> > > They were farmers. Charles was 18 and Nicholas,12, so they were not > any > profession yet really. They spent a year in Ohio with their sister > until she moved > to Waterloo, Iowa for a time Charles got a job as a conductor on a > railroad. > When Mary moved to Michigan, he stayed in Iowa, marrying Laura > Zimmerman in > 1870. Later he became a farmer. Nicholas settled in Buchanon County, > Iowa, but he > died around 1880. > >

Hi, For those folk having trouble with locations here are some sites that may be helpful. These sites give maps, history and just about anything else you may need to know. Since the area changed hands several times I'm including a Rhineland-Palatinate site too. Yes, it was Bavarian as Bavaria was once split in two pieces with a little piece being where Rhineland is today. It was also Prussian due to other invasions. Be careful to remember that though it is Germany today, Germany didn't come into being as a unified German state until 1871 I believe. But as one lister wisely stated, just note these things and move on. Don't be hung up by them at the time. Have fun. Narda http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhineland-Palatinate http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/se/?id=100230 This site lists every city, town, village and crossroads in the area. http://www.french-at-a-touch.com/French_Regions/Lorraine/lorraine_13.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alsace

From: Nutmeg421@aol.com Subject: Re: [A-L] Bischwiller To: alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com >> In a message dated 11/10/08 10:18:04 AM, etienne.herrbach@wanadoo.fr writes: >> Before WWI, very few Alsatians in the countryside understood French.?? They spoke dialect and understood German.? >> >My grandfather knew French, as did my father who helped me with my college French. Of course, my grandfather died in the 1860s before Germany was organized. He also spoke German and Italian, and learned English when he came to America. They left from LeHavre, not Hamburg, went to England and left there for America. My grandfather came to America very young, in about 1868. He said he arrived in NYC on Good Friday, 1867, but we found that to be untrue. It was probably 1868 or even earlier. If he was 18, it was 1866. They are not listed in the Germans to America books. Charles and Nicholas Becker. Hi Jean, I¹ve been following your postings, and have not jumped in earlier since I have not been able to comprehend exactly whom you were looking for. Now it is clearly Charles and Nicholas Becker coming into NYC from Le Havre and London circa 1868, though you typed Good Friday 1867. So, I¹ve taken a look, and found a nice possibility: (Easter 1867 was April 21; Easter 1868: April 12; and Easter 1869: March 28.) On board the S. S. Cella, Benjamin Glendell, Master, into NYC on 30 March 1868 (!!!) from ³London and Havre² (though I believe from the list that the ship began in London and then picked up passengers in Le Havre) and on page 8 of 9 of the passenger list, are found as 3rd to 7th passengers from the bottom of the page: Pierre Becker; 27; M; Farmer; Prussia; St. Paul; Steerage. Joseph ³ ; 23 (?); M; Farmer; Prussia; St. Paul; Steerage. Nicolas ³ ; 17; M; Farmer; Prussia; St. Paul; Steerage. Anna Maria; 92; F; none; Prussia; St. Paul; Steerage. Elisabeth; 72; F; none; Prussia; St. Paul; Steerage. IF your Charles said Good Friday....but in 1868 (?) , this is a really good possibility with the near date. I have a friend whose family legend told of the ancestor who arrived in NYC on Christmas Eve. When she searched the microfilms (back in ³those² days) and could not find him on 24 or 25 Dec that year, she worked her way backwards....and found him on 19 Dec arriving NYC. She figures it may have taken those 5 days before the passengers were allowed off the boat, so he just might have finally got into NYC on Christmas Eve! Re: Charles, is it possible that ³Joseph² could have been a ³Carl Joseph² or a ³Joseph Carl²? Wouldn¹t you just love to have these two elder women in your BECKER line? Perhaps the grandmother and great-grandmother came along with this set of three brothers? Since parents Adam and his wife had already died? And there¹s Nicholas Becker in Eagle Twp, Black Hawk County, Iowa in 1870 census as an 18yr old farm hand b. Baden ( which could explain the ³Prussia.² ) Jean, that¹s all I¹ve got for you, for what it¹s worth......except that I¹d like to suggest you sit down and create a timeline with what you know of your Adam, Charles and Nicholas. Put everything in chronological order, and then repost it. I still don¹t know if Adam and his wife ³were killed² in the US or back in the old country‹ whichever country that might have been. Your story is an interesting one, but it¹s really difficult to figure out just who is who and when & where things happened. I¹ll look forward to your timeline hitting the ALS-LORR list. Cari Thomas

Researching his siblings is a very good idea and one that should be followed when you have hit the brick wall. I hope that you succeed in finding what you are looking for. Linda in Costa Rica Monroe County, NY Records and Family Genealogy http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~monroenys/ Monroe County, NY History http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~monroenys/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Nutmeg421@aol.com To: alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, 10 November, 2008 3:27 PM Subject: Re: [A-L] Bischwiller Brian, How do you contact the clerk in Bischwiller? My family information comes from primary sources for the most part. We were a very close family that lived in the same small area. My grandfather was the kind that did his own information giving. He was in Who's Who. He was active in community service. Very smart. No accent. His last census was 1920. He was 72 years old then. I doubt if he kept up with the history of Europe, so he just gave whatever information he thought of. I have checked every document in America. Hired a genealogist. We have hit a brick wall, but someone sent me some info in regard to his sister that may lead somewhere. I am a thorough researcher. ************** AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other Holiday needs. Search Now. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir=http://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from-aol-search/?ncid=emlcntu ssear00000001) -- Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi fellow Canadian-- Go to LDS family search site- - - get the Library catalogue- - - then go to KEYWORD.- - - then put in the word Orting- - - I think you will be surprised what is available for Oeting. Most people will go to the cataloge, and do not use this also. Many things are not in the catalogue the way WE think they should be and this is a good source also. Miriam Hall Hansen Miriam CW Hall-Hansen mchall@xmission.com "The point is that they lived"... ----- Original Message ----- From: "P.& K.Wingert" <pkwingert@accesscomm.ca> To: <alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 11:56 AM Subject: [A-L] Records for Oeting > Hi All, > I'm looking for information about Margarite Gill(e) born in Oeting > in > the early 1700s (parents were Ludovic Gill and Justina Lang). > > She died in St. Nikolaus, Saar on 24 May 1759. > > The LDS only has records listed for after 1793 and I was wondering > if the earlier records may have been combined with another village or > town? > > Paul Wingert, Regina, SK > > -- > Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Brian, How do you contact the clerk in Bischwiller? My family information comes from primary sources for the most part. We were a very close family that lived in the same small area. My grandfather was the kind that did his own information giving. He was in Who's Who. He was active in community service. Very smart. No accent. His last census was 1920. He was 72 years old then. I doubt if he kept up with the history of Europe, so he just gave whatever information he thought of. I have checked every document in America. Hired a genealogist. We have hit a brick wall, but someone sent me some info in regard to his sister that may lead somewhere. I am a thorough researcher. ************** AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other Holiday needs. Search Now. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212792382x1200798498/aol?redir=http://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from-aol-search/?ncid=emlcntu ssear00000001)

> Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 07:14:37 EST > From: Nutmeg421@aol.com > > In a message dated 11/10/08 4:00:13 AM, georgeandeve@embarqmail.com > writes: >> The key though is to learn the town name. > > I've tried this for thirty years or more. I've used the FHCs often. > I hate > microfilms, so I'm happy they are been put on line. In fact, I work > on them all > the time. Jean, if you have any reason to think that Adam BECKER x Maria BRUNON might be from Lorraine, I would suggest you to contact the Federation of Genealogy Associations of Lorraine: http://www.genealogie-lorraine.fr/ Good luck! Etienne

> Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 05:18:08 -0500 > From: "Eve Slater" <georgeandeve@embarqmail.com> > > My understanding is that most of southern Germany was at one time > considered > Bavaria. But part of Germany was also conquered by Napoleon and was > therefore part of Alsace-Lorraine at that time. No, Eve. Bavaria covers about the south-eastern quarter of today Germany, quite far from Alsace. Moreover, it is anachronic to speak about Alsace-Lorraine at Napoleon times. "Alsace-Lorraine" ("Alsace-Moselle" should better describe this association) existed only between 1871 and 1918 (German annexion). > they were from Prussia, Bavaria, Klingen, or Klingenburg Klingen is in Baden-Wurtemberg, as well as Klingenburg. Another Klingen exists in Bavaria indeed, now part of Aichach. See (in German): <http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klingen_(Beilstein)> & <http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klingenburg > > but I found most > of the records about them in the French/Napoleonic documents of the > early > 1800s, some of which were in German, some in French! Another source of complication: Napoleon annexed to the French Empire wide German and Italian regions for some time. See : <http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Histoire_des_départements_français> --- in French - look at maps. Etienne