Ann wrote: "Do you have other information on them?  I have a Leopold Bloch b. 1828 in Schirhoffen married to Catherine Meyer in 1860. He had 2 sisters, Judith and Jeannette." Ann Williams Thanks, Ann.  I have all the information French and U.S. Documents will yeild.  My Leopold was born 2 April 1856. Bob Teitelbaum

Bob, here are two books. Jews of Brooklyn (Brandeis Series in American Jewish History, Culture, and Life) (Hardcover) (found on google books) by Ilana Abramovitch (Editor), Sean Galvin (Editor) The Jewish Community of Williamsburg Brooklyn, NY (Amazon.com) George Kranzier Publ. Columbis University, 1954 1136 pgs googling: http://www.brooklynjews.org/ Lain's Brooklyn Directory for the Year Ending May 1st 1892 two Leopolds, both butchers What was the sister's name? If she married would she be living nearby? Check first names near her brother on the census. The Leopold Bloch, butcher, in Brooklyn census (France) has a young wife Fanny; also in 1880. Is he your great-grandfather? What part of the Jewish religion did he belong to? You might see what synagogues existed at that time in Brooklyn; perhaps one would have records of marriages, if the sister married, or deaths. Gloria I. On Dec 2, 2008, at 5:20 AM, ROBERT TEITELBAUM wrote: > Hi, > > My great-grandfather, Leopold Bloch, and his sister disappear from > the records after landing and clearing Castle Garden in January > 1869. Leopold reappears in Brooklyn in 1877 or 1880; she remains > disappeared. > > I have posted about her before. Specific searches of New York City > and Federal documents for these two people have returned nothing. I > think I may start from general references and work to the specific. > > Does anyone on the list know of books, articles, essays, etc. that > could tell me about the New York City and Brooklyn communities or > ethnic enclaves that Jews recently emigrated from Alsace might have > become involved with or connected to during the 1860’s and 1870’s? > > Bob Teitelbaum > -- > Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

Bob, Do you have other information on them? I have a Leopold Bloch b. 1828 in Schirhoffen married to Catherine Meyer in 1860. He had 2 sisters, Judith and Jeannette. Ann Williams

I see another lister has suggested this same idea, but here it is again. You might look at US or NY census records again for that period. Leopold's sister most likely arrived and soon thereafter got married. I found a missing sister of a relative by going through the census records and finding that she lived next door to my relative, but under her married name. Families back then seemed to stick together, so it's possible Leopold's sister may be close to him in the census records. Find him in the census, and then check nearby addresses for the sister. Good luck. Dave in Palm Desert CA -----Original Message----- From: alsace-lorraine-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:alsace-lorraine-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of ROBERT TEITELBAUM Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 12:20 PM To: ALSACE-LORRAINE@rootsweb.com Subject: [A-L] Jews from Alsace in Brooklyn and New York City Hi,   My great-grandfather, Leopold Bloch, and his sister disappear from the records after landing and clearing Castle Garden in January 1869.  Leopold reappears in Brooklyn in 1877 or 1880; she remains disappeared.      I have posted about her before.  Specific searches of New York City and Federal documents for these two people have returned nothing.  I think I may start from general references and work to the specific.    Does anyone on the list know of books, articles, essays, etc. that could tell me about the New York City and Brooklyn communities or ethnic enclaves that Jews recently emigrated from Alsace might have become involved with or connected to during the 1860?s and 1870?s?   Bob Teitelbaum -- Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi,   My great-grandfather, Leopold Bloch, and his sister disappear from the records after landing and clearing Castle Garden in January 1869.  Leopold reappears in Brooklyn in 1877 or 1880; she remains disappeared.      I have posted about her before.  Specific searches of New York City and Federal documents for these two people have returned nothing.  I think I may start from general references and work to the specific.    Does anyone on the list know of books, articles, essays, etc. that could tell me about the New York City and Brooklyn communities or ethnic enclaves that Jews recently emigrated from Alsace might have become involved with or connected to during the 1860’s and 1870’s?   Bob Teitelbaum

kenlampel@yahoo.com writes: << Ok I found out that the country of origin listed on a manifest for Leonhard Lampel in 1879 was Wurttemberg. Was this a seperate country around that timeframe? I know it is a "state" of Germany now. I check a few maps around 1871 and it looks like Alsace Lorrane was part of Wurttemberg until WW1. I guess I have to find the EXACT town he was born in order to find a birth certificate. I have a marraige cert from New York with him and his wife Emma Strobel but it doesn't state what town he was from in Germany. He does not exist in any census records here in the US so does anyone have any clues on where I can look in the US for his original town he was from? >> In a message dated September 10, 2008, 6:30 PM, I wrote: << The ship HERDER left Hamburg 15 Oct 1879 (www.castlegarden.org says that the ship arrived at New York 29 Oct 1879). According to the original passengerlist (with printed text in German language) taken in Hamburg, Leonhard LAMPEL 26 years old was from Nürnberg (Germany).>> ++++++++++++++++ Hi Ken, According to the passenger list, Leonhard LAMPEL was born about 1853 in Nürnberg (Germany). There are << Emigration records>> for Nürnberg (Bavaria, Germany) available on microfilm at your FHC: "Auswanderungsakten 1811-1871". These are numbered packets of papers, but some packets are missing. Each packet begins with a number in the upper left hand corner of the first page. They are generally in alphabetical order; however, every alphabetical sequence of surnames has papers from other surnames. The packets are in German and generally handwritten in Gothic script. For the surname Lampel, try the film <<Familiennamen "L"-"M" - FHL INTL Film [ 1608390 ] >> You can also contact the city hall of Nürnberg by phone or by fax: Standesamt Nürnberg Hauptmarkt 18 90403 Nürnberg Phone: (+49)911.231.8514 Telefax: (+49)911.231.5711 and online at : http://www.nuernberg.de/internet/standesamt/urkundenausstellung.html (click on "Online Service") Good luck with your search Ewald

Hello Margie and listers, as mentionned on the sites suggested by Mary and other listers, Alsatian is a dialect, or more precisely a range of dialects;, that vary from south to north. They belong to the Alemannic group of German languages. Smaller parts at the north, the dialects spoken belong to the Franconian group og German languages. One should add that in several small areas, usually the upper part of valleys in the Vosges mountains (area of Saales, some villages in the valleys of Ville' and Sainte Marie aux Mines, the "canton Welsche" around Lapoutroie) speak Roman dialects. A scheene Gruess en alle* Etienne * nice greetings to all Le 23 nov. 08 à 21:34, Margie Karasek a écrit : > Hello, > What exactly is the Alsatian language? Where does it come > from. > Margie Karasek

Ken, Alsaß-Lothringen was a separate entity and was not part of the Kingdom of Würtemberg nor the Grandduchy of Baden, which was just across the Rhein River. At 02:00 AM 11/28/2008, you wrote: >From: Kenneth Lampel <kenlampel@yahoo.com> >Subject: [A-L] Leonhard Lampel > >Ok I found out that the country of origin listed >on a manifest for Leonhard Lampel in 1879 was >Wurttemberg. Was this a seperate country around >that timeframe? I know it is a "state" of >Germany?now.?I check a few maps around 1871 and >it looks like Alsace Lorrane was part of >Wurttemberg?until WW1. I guess I have to find >the EXACT town he was born in order to find a >birth certificate. I have a marraige cert from >New York with him and his wife Emma Strobel but >it doesn't state what town he was from in >Germany. He does not exist in any census records >here in the US so does anyone have any clues on >where I can look in the US for his original town he was from? > >Ken ____________________________________________________________ Click to consolidate your debt in minutes, stop late or over-limit fees, pay less. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6rx9KZazKSUnGJujVgmSMO4zHTSptLt4cEpiDTYNaq4gqgocK5/

kenlampel@yahoo.com writes: << Ok I found out that the country of origin listed on a manifest for Leonhard Lampel in 1879 was Wurttemberg. Was this a seperate country around that timeframe? I know it is a "state" of Germany now. I check a few maps around 1871 and it looks like Alsace Lorrane was part of Wurttemberg until WW1. I guess I have to find the EXACT town he was born in order to find a birth certificate. I have a marraige cert from New York with him and his wife Emma Strobel but it doesn't state what town he was from in Germany. He does not exist in any census records here in the US so does anyone have any clues on where I can look in the US for his original town he was from? >> Hi Ken, In a message dated September 10, 2008, 6:30 PM, I wrote: << The ship HERDER left Hamburg 15 Oct 1879 (www.castlegarden.org says that the ship arrived at New York 29 Oct 1879). According to the original passengerlist (with printed text in German language) taken in Hamburg, Leonhard LAMPEL 26 years old was from Nürnberg (Germany).>> Do you have seen the records of Nürnberg? Ewald

Hello Ken, Alsace and Wurtemberg are distinct regions, and have always been so. The only slight "however" is that, before Alsace became French (1658), the noble family Von Wurttemberg-Montbeliard (or -Mümpelgart) owned territories in Alsace (around Riquewihr and Horbourg) and in Franche-Comte' (Montbeliard). See the map on Valorie's blog: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~valorie/alsace/maps/livet.jpg Good luck! Etienne Le 24 nov. 08 à 21:00, Kenneth Lampel a écrit : > Ok I found out that the country of origin listed on a manifest for > Leonhard Lampel in 1879 was Wurttemberg. Was this a seperate country > around that timeframe? I know it is a "state" of Germany now. I > check a few maps around 1871 and it looks like Alsace Lorrane was > part of Wurttemberg until WW1. I guess I have to find the EXACT town > he was born in order to find a birth certificate. I have a marraige > cert from New York with him and his wife Emma Strobel but it doesn't > state what town he was from in Germany. He does not exist in any > census records here in the US so does anyone have any clues on where > I can look in the US for his original town he was from? > > Ken

Hi Mardon and listers, the Cassini maps were the first maps to cover entirely the (then) kingdom of France, between 1756 and 1789 (Source: French Wikipedia). It is a remarkable work. However, the precise localization of villages and towns is not always accurate. Compare for ex. the area of Ferrette with a modern map (e.g. "Google maps", then search for Ferrette): particularly look at the relative positions of Ferrette (Pfirt), Bouxwiller (Buschwil) and Oltingue (Oltingen) (Please note that the orientation is not the same: on Cassini's map, the north is on your right). One has to remember that the maps were drawn by French-speaking people, who transcribed phonetically the local names of places. Also, as you have noticed, Sondersdorf is missing, whereas Fusswiller cannot been found on modern maps (at least I couldn't find it). Sondersdorf is mentionned as Sundroltestorff in 1146 and Sundersdorf in 1284. As to Raedersdorf, there are two possibilities: either "Roterstorff" south to '"Pfirt", or "Roterstorff" south to "Oltingen". There is a Rodersdorf (in today Switzerland) just across the border, near Biederthal (in today France) which must be "Beitenthal" on Cassini's map. I guess Raedersdorf corresponds to the first possibility. To conclude, Cassini's map is fascinating indeed, but it should not be used to locate a place precisely, unless it is compared to a modern map. Further remarks: Pfirt is indeed Ferrette, as Mardon wrote in another post. SVN T GOW is Sundgau. For further questions about specific places, just drop me a line. I'll check in the "Dictionnaire du Haut-Rhin". Etienne Le 27 nov. 08 à 00:21, Mardon a écrit : > I found a fantastic, hi-resolution, on-line map of Alsatia Superior > c1580 at > this URL: > http://cartocassini.free.fr/region/alsace/alsace-mercator1 > > My ERBLAND ancestors come from the village of Sondersdorf, which is > 2 km > southeast of Ferrette (where the ruins of the Château de Ferrette are > located) and 2.5 km northwest of Raedersdorf. > > The map shows "Roderstorf" where "Raedersdorf" is located today and > it shows > the symbol for a castle at the location of the Château de Ferrette > but the > name “Ferrette" is not there. The name "Pfirt" seems to be the > label for > the castle and the place names of "Buschwil" and "Fußwiller" are in > the area > where Sondersdorf is located now. I have birth records in Latin for > my > family that go back to the early 1600’s and these all list > Sondersdorf as > the village name in that area. > > I’d like to know how the names on the map got changed between 1580 > and the > 1600’s. I’d also like to know more about the nature of Alsatia > Superior. > It stretched much further to the east than Alsace and Haut-Rhin goes > today. > > Other things on the map that I’d like to know more about are the area > labeled “Die Hartt” and the label “SVN T GOW” for the area that was > later > known as the Suntgaw, a.k.a. the "Suntgau" and the "Sundgau" > > All feedback is welcome and appreciated. > > Mardon

Mardon, Thanks for the site; it is fantastic, not only for us "Alsatians". If one goes to the home site one can find all kinds of places. I found on the Languedoc-Rouissillon, Carcassonne map the exact small area of fourth son's present residence in the rural area north of Carcassonne. Gloria Ishida On Nov 27, 2008, at 8:21 AM, Mardon wrote: > I found a fantastic, hi-resolution, on-line map of Alsatia Superior > c1580 at > this URL: > > > > http://cartocassini.free.fr/region/alsace/alsace-mercator1 > > >

Valorie, Isn't JP interested in Nancy? There is a very nice 1752 map of Nancy on the Cartocassini site. Gloria, I'm glad you found the site useful too! :) Since I asked about Ferrette and Pfirt in my previous post, I've done more work and found that they are the same place; the first is the French word and the second is the German word. The history that I was able to find goes back to the 10th century when in 1105 Frederic became the first Duke of Ferrette and it includes connections with the Habsburgs, the Bishop of Basle, the House of Grimaldi and the present Prince of Monaco who continues to claim the title of " Comte de Ferrette" (Count of Ferrette). Here's a good link regarding a short summary of that history: http://www.jura-alsacien.net/histoire/index.php3

I found a fantastic, hi-resolution, on-line map of Alsatia Superior c1580 at this URL: http://cartocassini.free.fr/region/alsace/alsace-mercator1 My ERBLAND ancestors come from the village of Sondersdorf, which is 2 km southeast of Ferrette (where the ruins of the Château de Ferrette are located) and 2.5 km northwest of Raedersdorf. The map shows "Roderstorf" where "Raedersdorf" is located today and it shows the symbol for a castle at the location of the Château de Ferrette but the name “Ferrette" is not there. The name "Pfirt" seems to be the label for the castle and the place names of "Buschwil" and "Fußwiller" are in the area where Sondersdorf is located now. I have birth records in Latin for my family that go back to the early 1600’s and these all list Sondersdorf as the village name in that area. I’d like to know how the names on the map got changed between 1580 and the 1600’s. I’d also like to know more about the nature of Alsatia Superior. It stretched much further to the east than Alsace and Haut-Rhin goes today. Other things on the map that I’d like to know more about are the area labeled “Die Hartt” and the label “SVN T GOW” for the area that was later known as the Suntgaw, a.k.a. the "Suntgau" and the "Sundgau" All feedback is welcome and appreciated. Mardon ERBLAND surname from Sondersdorf, Alsace, Haut-Rhin. Web: www.Erbland.org

Thanks so much for this link, Mardon. I've added CartoCassini's Alsace maps to my Alsace Maps page, http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~valorie/alsace/maps/ On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 3:21 PM, Mardon <Erbland@erbland.org> wrote: > I found a fantastic, hi-resolution, on-line map of Alsatia Superior c1580 at > this URL: > > http://cartocassini.free.fr/region/alsace/alsace-mercator1 > > My ERBLAND ancestors come from the village of Sondersdorf, which is 2 km > southeast of Ferrette (where the ruins of the Château de Ferrette are > located) and 2.5 km northwest of Raedersdorf. ::snip:: -- Facebook: http://www.new.facebook.com/profile.php?id=507013560 LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/valoriez MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/valoriez Genealogy Blog: http://genweblog.blogspot.com/ All my pages: http://valorie.zimmerman.googlepages.com

Hi Arlene I send all details in a separate mail Daniel Strasbourg ----- Original Message ----- From: <Amcwashere@aol.com> To: <alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 2:55 PM Subject: [A-L] 1836 Census > > > In the 1836 French Census Records, in the District of Wissembourg, there > is > a listing for the surname VONAGEN, totaling 6 people. VONAGEN is one of > the > misspellings of my surname VONACHEN. If anyone has the time to check the > census record CD, would they be so kind as to send this VONAGEN record to > me? I > want to be check to see if there is a connection to my lineage. Your > kindness would be most appreciated. > Happy Thanksgiving to all. > Arlene in North Carolina, USA > > > **************One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social > networks, > and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com > today!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212962939x1200825291/aol?redir=http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp > %26icid=aolcom40vanity%26ncid=emlcntaolcom00000001) > -- > Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Valorie, With Google search : alsace site:http://www.hillsdale.edu/ you get 2 links Good luck, Daniel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Valorie Zimmerman" <valorie.zimmerman@gmail.com> To: <alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 11:24 AM Subject: Re: [A-L] Language In Alsace > On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 6:26 PM, patriciahans <phans@cfl.rr.com> wrote: >> >> Hello Margie; >> >> You can try this website also... www.hillsdale.edu >>

Hi Daniel Would you mind checking to see if Emanuel Alexandre/Alexander is listed on that census? Also, Reine Levy. You were very kind in helping me find their son Isidor Alexandre's birth records. So far I have not been able to trace Emanuel or Reine back any further than at the time of Isidor's birth. LDS films from Wissembourg and Marmoutier have not yielded any more information on them. Again, many thanks for all your help. It is very much appreciatied. Ellen Alexander Jacksonville, FL In a message dated 11/24/2008 10:10:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, djoedicke@estvideo.fr writes: Hi Arlene I send all details in a separate mail Daniel Strasbourg ----- Original Message ----- From: <Amcwashere@aol.com> To: <alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 2:55 PM Subject: [A-L] 1836 Census **************One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks, and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com today!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212962939x1200825291/aol?redir=http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp %26icid=aolcom40vanity%26ncid=emlcntaolcom00000001)

Ok I found out that the country of origin listed on a manifest for Leonhard Lampel in 1879 was Wurttemberg. Was this a seperate country around that timeframe? I know it is a "state" of Germany now. I check a few maps around 1871 and it looks like Alsace Lorrane was part of Wurttemberg until WW1. I guess I have to find the EXACT town he was born in order to find a birth certificate. I have a marraige cert from New York with him and his wife Emma Strobel but it doesn't state what town he was from in Germany. He does not exist in any census records here in the US so does anyone have any clues on where I can look in the US for his original town he was from? Ken

In the 1836 French Census Records, in the District of Wissembourg, there is a listing for the surname VONAGEN, totaling 6 people. VONAGEN is one of the misspellings of my surname VONACHEN. If anyone has the time to check the census record CD, would they be so kind as to send this VONAGEN record to me? I want to be check to see if there is a connection to my lineage. Your kindness would be most appreciated. Happy Thanksgiving to all. Arlene in North Carolina, USA **************One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks, and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com today!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212962939x1200825291/aol?redir=http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp %26icid=aolcom40vanity%26ncid=emlcntaolcom00000001)