Sue, This is not related to the two you mentioned but there is another child born in Stark County 1828, Sept.19: Theresa Louisa, of Ignatius Pierot and Magd. Riggert, wife; sponsors Adam Shorbe and Eva -- J.B.V. DeRaymaeker, O.P. While spelling of Piero is different and Magdalena is Rigggert (Richert on Oberbronn birth record), I would assume they are the same couple as yours. http://catholicrecordsociety.org/stjosbaptisms.html As noted in the above site, you might try the present Archdiocese of Columbus, but more likely the Archdiocese of Cincinnati which was the only one at that period of time. Gloria I

Is Heiligenstein in Bas Rhin, Alsace, the same as the Heiligenstein, Pfalz, Bayern? Or am I looking at two distinct locations? Thanks.

Hello, I have found a page in the Archives du Bas-Rhin, but I can not decipher it, especially as it is most probably in Alsacian dialect or German. The reference is "Heiligenstein, N, An XI, 4E, 188/1 (page 3 of 8)". Leonard Goepp died in 1840 and was 39 at the time, but the records I see for Year X don't seem to have an entry for the birth of Leonard Goepp (or Go -umlaut-pp). I have found the above reference Uear XI, but the only words I can decipher are Jahr, Leonard Goepp, and something that looks like Marie Salome (the name of another relative, nee Hett). If someone could give me a translation (even "rough and dirty") I would be grateful. Thank you, Lucy

Sue--I can't help on the twins problem but I noticed you memtion Magdalena Richards. Are you sure the spelling was RICHARDS? Not RICHART, RICHERDT or RICHERT?? My G-G-father came to Stark Co., later a part of Stark became Rose Twp (near village of Morges)in Carroll county, in 1832 from Bouxwiller,(between St Louis --roughly to the west and Colmar to little North-East) Haut Rhin, Alsace, Fr. -----They too were Catholics and my G-mother was Magdalena Zengler---common mane in Rose Twp at that time--they came from the Bas Rhin area of Alsace. The family name of Piero is nuknown to me --never notice it in all the work I did in Start or Carroll Cl. Sue I have a problem getting mail from an unknown sender so be patient on a reply from me --- I have to find your answer in a 'spam folder' and that takes time Rollie Richards >[email protected]< Original Message----- From: shill [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 7:10 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [A-L] Recording birth of twins in 1826?? Hi, Can anyone shed light on how twin births were usually recorded? Would they have been listed in same entry or separately? They too were Catholics and my G-mother was Magdalena Zengler---common mane in Rose Twp at that time--they came from the Bas Rhin area of Alsace. I am researching the supposed birth of twins Joseph & Louisa PIERO in Oberbronn in January 1826. In checking the ten year index, as well as, each page for the year 1826, I find only a birth for Henry Joseph PIERO on 9 January 1826, entry #4. If Louisa had died the same day, I might understand how she was missed. However, there is no death for a PIERO in 1826. According to a family history book in the Stark County, Ohio, USA district library (where this family immigrated in 1826) both children Joseph & Louisa were alive until c 1844 when they died same day. This book also states that both were baptized in St. Stephen's Church (Catholic) in Oberbronn---Louisa, either 9 or 19 January 1826 and Joseph on 10 January 1826. Parents were Ignatius Piero & Magdalena Richards. (I googled St. Stephen's Catholic Church & Oberbronn, but no hits.) Would love to have some input on recording of twin births & perhaps where to proceed next. The 1840 Stark County, Ohio census---although only recorded head of household---seems to substantiate her existence as there is a quantity of 2 girls listed for age group 10-15 years old. Thanks, Sue

Paul, -ingen or -ing is common in many parts of the Germanic linguistic area. Since you speak German, have a look at this page: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/-ing Etienne Le 14 juil. 11 à 14:20, [email protected] a écrit : > Merci. > > Does anyone know what the "ingen" suffix means? > > Paul > > On Dé Céadaoin, 13 Iúil, 2011, at 11:41, Etienne Herrbach wrote: > >> Paul, >> >> German surnames ending with "inger" usually derive from the name of a >> place ending with "ingen". >> >> E.g. "Kentzinger" means "originating from Kentzingen", etc. >> >> In the case of Schwarzinger, there should be a place "Schwarzingen" >> or >> "Schwerzingen" somewhere in Germany, Switzerland, or Austria -- but >> don't know where. >> >> I guess Schwarzenegger means "from the place named Schwarzenegg or >> Schwarzeneck". There is a Schwarzenegg in Switzerland. >> >> >> Etienne >> >> >> >> Le 13 juil. 11 à 14:48, [email protected] a écrit : >> >>> Does anyone know what the surname Schwarzinger means? >>> >>> Dark/Black - something? >>> >>> Or is it a corruption of Schwarzenegger? Or the other way around? >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> A google search did not help. >>> >>> Paul >> >> >> -- >> Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine- >> L.htm >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >> the body of the message > > > -- > Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

Many thanks to the off-list writer of the following: "Elizabeth Houpert, sa veuve domiciliée à Virming, est décédée en son domicile à Hellimer, et ont les déclarants signé avec nous… E.H., his widow, living in Virming, died at her home in Hellimer" I substituted the phrase "sans occupation" for "sa veuve". It didn't really look like "sans occupation", but I couldn't find another phrase in my dictionary. So it isn't Elizabeth's child who died; it's her mother! And in Hellimer ~ a film I plan to view tonight at the Family History Center! What perfect timing! Thank you again J! It's all relative, Laura PS - Do we have an ancestor in common? Check my family history web site<http://livinginthepastlane.com/> or my blog <http://livinginthepastlane.blogspot.com/>.

Hi Sue, Henry Joseph and Maria Luisa PIERRO are not twins .If is it right that Henry Joseph is born on 9 January 1826, Louisa, his older sister is born on 03 January 1821 .Madeleine is born on 8 november 1816 and Maria Marguerite on 20 november 1818. You can found this birth from Louisa on http://etat-civil.bas-rhin.fr/adeloch/index.php Oberbronn N 1821 View 10/23 act number 32 All best Nicole Mallo Gignoux

In my experience, twins are always listed separately, one after the other. Linda in Costa Rica Monroe County, New York Genealogy http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~monroenys Monroe County, New York History http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~monroenys -----Original Message----- From: shill Sent: Thursday, 14 July, 2011 6:10 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [A-L] Recording birth of twins in 1826?? Hi, Can anyone shed light on how twin births were usually recorded? Would they have been listed in same entry or separately? [SNIP]

Yes Steve, the "publications" were announced usually at the end of the Sunday service, in the parish of the groom and that of the bride (if different). After introduction of the civil state (end of 1792), the publications were nailed to the door of the town hall. Etienne Le 10 juil. 11 à 21:13, Stephan Wall a écrit : > The part about the three publications is what I was most interested > to see translated. I take it that these "publications" were > announcements made > at the end of Mass every week? > Steve

There was no standard way of recording the birth of twins in church parish records. I can't speak for civil records. I haven't had much in the way of twins in Alsace. However in Baden, just over the Rhine, there were basically two ways I find them recorded. One, both twins listed together on the same record. Even if one died the same day, in which case it indicated so in the record or stated the child as a stillbirth. Two, separately in two records. Again if died the same day it would say "born and died", or "born at xx:xx and died at yy:yy", or stillborn. I even have a record for triplets, all in a single record. I would imagine even the civil records in Alsace would be similar. They may have had rules, but there's always one in the crowd who will do it the way they want to anyway. It's inconceivable that if a child was a twin, it wouldn't be noted in the record or that only one was recorded, unless the family wanted to hide it. My take is, if you find one of the supposed twins and not the other, unless you have some other authoritative record calling one child or the other a twin it's just not so. Brian On Thu, July 14, 2011 7:10 am, shill wrote: > Hi, > > Can anyone shed light on how twin births were usually recorded? Would > they > have been listed in same entry or separately? >

Thank you for your very speedy reply Nicole! The Maria Luisa PIERRO who was born 1821 to same parents as Henry Joseph PIERO---died 16 Mar 1822. I suspect that the name was used again which seems a very common practice. I just wonder how common or uncommon it may have been for someone's birth to be missed completely especially when one twin(?) is recorded??? Apparently, there is or was an actual baptismal certificate for Louisa PIERO as the author of the previously-mentioned family history book states that it "is a beautiful example of cut out paper work." Sue On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 8:42 AM, ginic <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Sue, > > Henry Joseph and Maria Luisa PIERRO are not twins .If is it right that > Henry Joseph is born on 9 January 1826, Louisa, his older sister is born on > 03 January 1821 .Madeleine is born on 8 november 1816 and Maria Marguerite > on 20 november 1818. > -- > Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Good morning all, I transcribed and translated my 4th great-grandmother's death record on my blog http://livinginthepastlane.blogspot.com/. I *think* I did a fairly good job this time, but I do have a couple questions: There is a word before François' age that I cannot make out. It might just be "de" but there are no upper case D's elsewhere so I'm not sure why it would be used here. I'm a little confused about the words related to the infant who died. Elizabeth did lose a son in April, so I understand the reference, the flow doesn't seem right to me. And that brings me to my last question. Is there a way to learn causes of death? I haven't explored church records yet and was wondering if that information might be there. It's all relative, Laura PS - Do we have an ancestor in common? Check my family history web site<http://livinginthepastlane.com/> or my blog <http://livinginthepastlane.blogspot.com/>.

Hi, Can anyone shed light on how twin births were usually recorded? Would they have been listed in same entry or separately? I am researching the supposed birth of twins Joseph & Louisa PIERO in Oberbronn in January 1826. In checking the ten year index, as well as, each page for the year 1826, I find only a birth for Henry Joseph PIERO on 9 January 1826, entry #4. If Louisa had died the same day, I might understand how she was missed. However, there is no death for a PIERO in 1826. According to a family history book in the Stark County, Ohio, USA district library (where this family immigrated in 1826) both children Joseph & Louisa were alive until c 1844 when they died same day. This book also states that both were baptized in St. Stephen's Church (Catholic) in Oberbronn---Louisa, either 9 or 19 January 1826 and Joseph on 10 January 1826. Parents were Ignatius Piero & Magdalena Richards. (I googled St. Stephen's Catholic Church & Oberbronn, but no hits.) Would love to have some input on recording of twin births & perhaps where to proceed next. The 1840 Stark County, Ohio census---although only recorded head of household---seems to substantiate her existence as there is a quantity of 2 girls listed for age group 10-15 years old. Thanks, Sue

Merci. Does anyone know what the "ingen" suffix means? Paul On Dé Céadaoin, 13 Iúil, 2011, at 11:41, Etienne Herrbach wrote: > Paul, > > German surnames ending with "inger" usually derive from the name of a > place ending with "ingen". > > E.g. "Kentzinger" means "originating from Kentzingen", etc. > > In the case of Schwarzinger, there should be a place "Schwarzingen" or > "Schwerzingen" somewhere in Germany, Switzerland, or Austria -- but > don't know where. > > I guess Schwarzenegger means "from the place named Schwarzenegg or > Schwarzeneck". There is a Schwarzenegg in Switzerland. > > > Etienne > > > > Le 13 juil. 11 à 14:48, [email protected] a écrit : > >> Does anyone know what the surname Schwarzinger means? >> >> Dark/Black - something? >> >> Or is it a corruption of Schwarzenegger? Or the other way around? >> >> Thanks. >> >> A google search did not help. >> >> Paul > > > -- > Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Paul, German surnames ending with "inger" usually derive from the name of a place ending with "ingen". E.g. "Kentzinger" means "originating from Kentzingen", etc. In the case of Schwarzinger, there should be a place "Schwarzingen" or "Schwerzingen" somewhere in Germany, Switzerland, or Austria -- but don't know where. I guess Schwarzenegger means "from the place named Schwarzenegg or Schwarzeneck". There is a Schwarzenegg in Switzerland. Etienne Le 13 juil. 11 à 14:48, [email protected] a écrit : > Does anyone know what the surname Schwarzinger means? > > Dark/Black - something? > > Or is it a corruption of Schwarzenegger? Or the other way around? > > Thanks. > > A google search did not help. > > Paul

Thank you both! -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Etienne Herrbach Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 3:01 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [A-L] Help with another record please Pat and Steve, some complements: - father Joannes JUNG junior - not Bilel, either Bilet or Bild - adolescens = single man, whatever his age - godmother (name left blank) = daughter of Joannes Gangloff Etienne Le 2 juil. 11 à 01:03, Stephan Wall a écrit : > I am no expert but, here is a rough translation of the birth record: > > Today the 5th of March 1710, was born and baptized, Anna, legitimate > daughter of Joannis Jung and Anna Eberhard, who were married in > Huttendorf, the godfather is the respectable youngman Michel Bilels, > son of Christian Bilels, a citizen, and true godmother the modest > maiden (no name entered?) legitimate daughter of Joannis Ganytots, a > citizen. > > I would love to see a revised translation from someone a little more > knowlegeable with latin. > > Steve > > ________________________________ > From: pat1030 <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Fri, July 1, 2011 5:05:20 PM > Subject: [A-L] Help with another record please > > Archives Départementales du Bas-Rhin (http://archives.bas-rhin.fr) > Huttendorf, BMS, 1636-1717, 3E 214/1 - Image 36 > > Child of Jean Jung and Anna Eberhard?? > > Thank you! -- Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

While I understand the basic of "huilier" I would like to know as an occupation in the the 1840s would he be a seller of oil or "manufacturer" (presser) of oil. What kind of oil - for cooking, for lamp lighting? Thanks, Gloria

Does anyone know what the surname Schwarzinger means? Dark/Black - something? Or is it a corruption of Schwarzenegger? Or the other way around? Thanks. A google search did not help. Paul

When a birth record says that a child "wurde von (some person) versprochen worden", what is a usable translation of that? Sometimes I see it translated as "(some person) became the child's Godparent", but that is not really a translation that helps me to understand the German. I speak German, but I am not familiar with this phrase in these old records. Can anyone comment? Thanks. Paul

I find the history of Borg very confusing. It seems at times it was in control by Duchy's, Lords, Electorates, archbishops, France, Spain, Luxembourg, Trier, Prussia, Germany, Saarburg, Saarland. . How does one separate the district's/divisions from the stat/county and church? History of BORG: Both Rettel and Borg are located near each other in the area of France, Germany and Luxembourg. With Rettel being on the French side of the Mosel River and Borg a few miles in on the German side. My great grandmother was from Rettel and my grandfather and great grandfather were from Borg. My father during WWI when serving in the US Army was stationed near Borg and he actually met a woman who had darned his father's socks. History of BORG: This comes from a Chronicle of Borg written by a teacher. In an old registry book of the minister of Dahlem (1853-1872) it is stated that the town got its name from a man called "Borger". This man was the first one to settle down in Borg. In 1832 there was a house which was called "Bogerhaus", (house of Borger). A new school was also built in 1832. In the cousrse of time, the name has not always remained the same. One very old form was "Bourich(e)". In a document from 1718, it was written as "Borrig". Ever since the time of the Romans, there has been a kind of remains of an old Roman Settlement. In the 14th Century, Borg belonged to the Duchy of Luxembourg and thus it belonged to Remich. Before 1430, the Lords of Sierck (France today) were the Lords of Borg. In 1443 proprietors were from Burgundy In 1452, Borg belonged to the estates of Wilhelm von Manderschied. About 1550 the Lords of Raville received the foundation means and the high jurisdiction of Borg. 1555 proprietors were Spanish 1701 to 1714 was the Spanish War of Succession, Borg and Trier suffered under the French occupying troops. In the 17th century the Lords of Criechingen followed. After these, all high Jurisdiction went to the "Karthuser", the monks in the Abby of St. Alban near of Trier. The Lords of Criechingen left their estates to the inhabitants of Borg who had to give fruit and life annuities to the Lordship each year. The life annuity was abolished in 1847. 1714 proprietors were Austrian. Borg belonged to the Electorate of Trier until August the 9th, 1794; more precisely to the county of Luxembourg. The invasion of Trier by the French brought the end of the Electorate. The last Elector was Clemens Wenseslaus. He had to leave his archbishopric forever. October the 17th, 1797, at the Peace of Campo Forino, the whole Electorate went to the French Republic. February the 9th, 1801, at The Peace of Luneville, it was ceded to France with the left bank of the Rhine River. In 1814, after the War of Liberation, against Napoleon the Rhineland was given again to Prussia. In 1815 the congress of Wien decided the Prussian municipality to be part of the district of Saarburg in the administrative area of Trier. French-German War of 1870-1871 World War I, On November 10th, 1918 - the Americans arrived in Borg. They took up quarters in the village and stayed for several weeks. (My father was one of the US soldiers.) Second World War 1939-1945. In 1946 the municipality of Borg became part of Saarland. Alice