Personally, I've never understood that. I'm sure there's some simple history lesson in there for me. I would have thought Rotterdam to be the natural choice of emigrants from Alsace. Hop on a skip along the Rhine and ride it out to the sea. What could be easier? But of course, LeHavre and Bremen are about the same distance from Alsace. One would probably ride the Rhine to Weisbaden, Cologne, Dusseldorf or Duisberg, and then on from there to Bremen. There are of course other choices. If I were Alsatian in 1850, I'd probably prefer probably the the route through German speaking territory over French. Although French was probably taught in some schools in Alsace then. Still, I think the road from Alsace to Bremen would be an easier trek. If I were from Lorraine, though, probably the flip side. But these are just wild guesses on my part. My grandmother's accent was very strongly German sounding. Although she was a bit of a conundrum (énigme). Although, I suspect the passage from Le Havre might be cheaper, which probably had something to do with it. I know there was some sponsorship programs booking people to make the trip to America from several places in Europe. The industrial boom needing cheap labor for all manner of factories, apprenticeships, miners, and of course women to work for the booming upper crust, and to marry the immigrant men (some seeking wives from the region of their birth). I'm certain my gr-gr-grandfather John J Duffy had his passage paid for in the 1850s so he could come to America under a blacksmith's apprenticeship program. I've never been able to prove that. Though to be fair it's hard doing the legwork needed from here in the Midwest. Lastly, it's not surprising to find mistakes in the Germans To America sources. Some of that information comes from WPA projects. There are always mistakes, although a very valuable project. Brian On Sat, September 29, 2012 7:32 am, gloria ishida wrote: > I have been away from Alsace researching for awhile but now have found > something that is perplexing. > > It is written in local secondary sources that my Great-great Grandmother > Catherine (Catherina) Jacob arrived in the United States (Ohio) in either > 1854(obituary) or 1855 (1900 US census). > She was born in 1833 in Niederroedern, Alsace. Most of my records for the > Jacob family and related families are fairly complete with a couple brick > walls. > > When I still had ancestry.com subscription I could not find records that > fit for her nor others available online. > > This record is the perplexing one. > > Margareth Jacob, age 21, France, arrival (no port) Jan. 13, 1854, > destination USA, birth date, 1833. Germans to America Passenger Data file > > In baptismal and civil birth records, she has only that single name, > Catherina. But her mother's and grandmother's names were Marguerite. > Could their have been confusion in the German to America file with her > mother's name and hers? Her father was long deceased. > > To make things more confusing, I found by googling: > > "Bremen ship ALBERT, Remme, master ... sailed from Bremen June 20, 1854 > ... arriving at Baltimore August 8, 1854. It goes on to state that > National Archives (USA) ... is misfiled under January 13....More is found > dated June 15 5 days before departure. the passenger arrival list, dated > August 10, 1854, two days after arrival, is microfilmed on National > Archives Microfilm Publication M255, roll 10, no. 66 - Germans to america, > vol.8. pp 24-25. > > While most folks from Alsace to America sailed from Le Havre, it is not > impossible, I suppose, some went to Bremen. I have no idea with whom > Catherine might have been traveling with; she was only 21. > > Any help, hints, suggestions will be much appreciated. > > > Gloria Ishida > Japan > > > "Genealogy. An account of one's descent from an ancestor who did not > particularly care to trace his own." Ambrose Bierce > > -- > Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >
Brian, Where in the midwest do you live? I have been searching for may grandfather port of entry for "forever" and have not been able to find out anything. I know he endeed up in St. Louis county. I first find him in the census in 1900. Any ideas would be helpful and appreciated his name was Otto Sauvain. Thanks, Peggie Sevem --- On Sat, 9/29/12, Brian J Densmore <brian@amason.net> wrote: > From: Brian J Densmore <brian@amason.net> > Subject: Re: [A-L] immigration question > To: alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com > Date: Saturday, September 29, 2012, 12:55 PM > Personally, I've never understood > that. I'm sure there's some simple > history lesson in there for me. I would have thought > Rotterdam to be the > natural choice of emigrants from Alsace. Hop on a skip along > the Rhine and > ride it out to the sea. What could be easier? > > But of course, LeHavre and Bremen are about the same > distance from Alsace. > One would probably ride the Rhine to Weisbaden, Cologne, > Dusseldorf or > Duisberg, and then on from there to Bremen. There are of > course other > choices. If I were Alsatian in 1850, I'd probably prefer > probably the the > route through German speaking territory over French. > Although French was > probably taught in some schools in Alsace then. Still, I > think the road > from Alsace to Bremen would be an easier trek. > > If I were from Lorraine, though, probably the flip side. But > these are > just wild guesses on my part. My grandmother's accent was > very strongly > German sounding. Although she was a bit of a conundrum > (énigme). > > Although, I suspect the passage from Le Havre might be > cheaper, which > probably had something to do with it. I know there was some > sponsorship > programs booking people to make the trip to America from > several places in > Europe. The industrial boom needing cheap labor for all > manner of > factories, apprenticeships, miners, and of course women to > work for the > booming upper crust, and to marry the immigrant men (some > seeking wives > from the region of their birth). > > I'm certain my gr-gr-grandfather John J Duffy had his > passage paid for in > the 1850s so he could come to America under a blacksmith's > apprenticeship > program. I've never been able to prove that. Though to be > fair it's hard > doing the legwork needed from here in the Midwest. > > Lastly, it's not surprising to find mistakes in the Germans > To America > sources. Some of that information comes from WPA projects. > There are > always mistakes, although a very valuable project. > > > > Brian > > > On Sat, September 29, 2012 7:32 am, gloria ishida wrote: > > I have been away from Alsace researching for awhile but > now have found > > something that is perplexing. > > > > It is written in local secondary sources that my > Great-great Grandmother > > Catherine (Catherina) Jacob arrived in the United > States (Ohio) in either > > 1854(obituary) or 1855 (1900 US census). > > She was born in 1833 in Niederroedern, Alsace. Most of > my records for the > > Jacob family and related families are fairly complete > with a couple brick > > walls. > > > > When I still had ancestry.com subscription I could not > find records that > > fit for her nor others available online. > > > > This record is the perplexing one. > > > > Margareth Jacob, age 21, France, arrival (no port) Jan. > 13, 1854, > > destination USA, birth date, 1833. Germans to America > Passenger Data file > > > > In baptismal and civil birth records, she has only that > single name, > > Catherina. But her mother's and grandmother's > names were Marguerite. > > Could their have been confusion in the German to > America file with her > > mother's name and hers? Her father was long deceased. > > > > To make things more confusing, I found by googling: > > > > "Bremen ship ALBERT, Remme, master ... sailed from > Bremen June 20, 1854 > > ... arriving at Baltimore August 8, 1854. It goes on to > state that > > National Archives (USA) ... is misfiled under January > 13....More is found > > dated June 15 5 days before departure. the passenger > arrival list, dated > > August 10, 1854, two days after arrival, is microfilmed > on National > > Archives Microfilm Publication M255, roll 10, no. 66 - > Germans to america, > > vol.8. pp 24-25. > > > > While most folks from Alsace to America sailed from Le > Havre, it is not > > impossible, I suppose, some went to Bremen. I have no > idea with whom > > Catherine might have been traveling with; she was only > 21. > > > > Any help, hints, suggestions will be much appreciated. > > > > > > Gloria Ishida > > Japan > > > > > > "Genealogy. An account of one's descent from an > ancestor who did not > > particularly care to trace his own." Ambrose Bierce > > > > -- > > Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > -- > Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message
Scott, Could this be your ancestor? Name: PaulBaumann Arrival Date: 29 May 1890 Age: 28 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862 Gender: Male Race: German Port of Departure: Bremen, Germany Ship Name: Dresden Port of Arrival: Baltimore, Maryland Page: 4 This is from ship arrivals for Baltimore. Joyce On 9/28/2012 12:27 PM, Laura Aanenson wrote: > Hi Scott, > > When do US census records say Paul arrived? I would check those to narrow > your possibilities for year of immigration. > > Many localities have records specific to the area. Are there city > directories in the community in which Paul lived? They may help narrow the > time range even further. > > Laura > > On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 11:06 PM, Scotty B.<wsb221@stny.rr.com> wrote: > >> Hello, >> Yesterdays post in this forum from Robert Behra made me think about >> something which I would like to ask here. >> I had a relative, Paul Auguste Napoleon Baumann who was born 8/12/1862 in >> Bollwiller, France and family lore says he left Alsace for America but we >> have no date or where he landed in America etc. >> I would venture to guess that he left between 1880 and 1900 but I’m >> not sure. Is there any way in France to definitely determine when a citizen >> left France? I’m curious as to what my options are for finding him and >> where he ended up. >> >> Thank you for an honest answer on this one. >> >> Scott Baumann >> -- >> Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >
Hi Scott, When do US census records say Paul arrived? I would check those to narrow your possibilities for year of immigration. Many localities have records specific to the area. Are there city directories in the community in which Paul lived? They may help narrow the time range even further. Laura On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 11:06 PM, Scotty B. <wsb221@stny.rr.com> wrote: > Hello, > Yesterdays post in this forum from Robert Behra made me think about > something which I would like to ask here. > I had a relative, Paul Auguste Napoleon Baumann who was born 8/12/1862 in > Bollwiller, France and family lore says he left Alsace for America but we > have no date or where he landed in America etc. > I would venture to guess that he left between 1880 and 1900 but I’m > not sure. Is there any way in France to definitely determine when a citizen > left France? I’m curious as to what my options are for finding him and > where he ended up. > > Thank you for an honest answer on this one. > > Scott Baumann > -- > Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- Relatively speaking, Laura PS: Are we related? Find out at http://where2look4ancestors.com/
Hello, Yesterdays post in this forum from Robert Behra made me think about something which I would like to ask here. I had a relative, Paul Auguste Napoleon Baumann who was born 8/12/1862 in Bollwiller, France and family lore says he left Alsace for America but we have no date or where he landed in America etc. I would venture to guess that he left between 1880 and 1900 but I’m not sure. Is there any way in France to definitely determine when a citizen left France? I’m curious as to what my options are for finding him and where he ended up. Thank you for an honest answer on this one. Scott Baumann
To complete my previous message, according to the site www. castlegarden.org: - Joseph ZINCK, farmer, 30 years old - Therese ZINCK farmer, 36 years (!) - Melanie ZINCK 1 y, yougster child arrived 14 March 1848 with the ship "ANCONA" which departed from Le Havre (France) Ewald -------------------------------------------------- From: "Ewald K." <ewald.klein@gmail.com> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 9:59 PM To: <alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [A-L] Celestin Zinck > Hi, > > According to the site www. castlegarden.org: > - Joseph ZINK, farmer, 56 years old > - Theresa ANDERLIN farmer, 56 years > - Celestine ZINK (mentioned as female!), farmer, 24 y > - Louisa ZINK, 9 years, yougster child > arrived 10 Dec 1844 with the ship "Queen Victoria" which departed from Le > Havre (France) > > Ewald > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Robert Behra" <robtbehra@aol.com> > Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 9:00 PM > To: <alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com> > Subject: [A-L] Celestin Zinck > >> >> >> Helen, >> >> I lost site of which of the Zinck children you were after. Celestin >> Zinck, son of Joseph Zinck and Thérèse Enderlin, was born in Sausheim 6 >> Apr 1820 at 8pm. So maybe the two children who were mentioned on the >> passport entry were unmarried children (Celestin and one other), and >> the two married sons came separately. >> >> Robert Behra >> >> -- >> Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >
Hi, According to the site www. castlegarden.org: - Joseph ZINK, farmer, 56 years old - Theresa ANDERLIN farmer, 56 years - Celestine ZINK (mentioned as female!), farmer, 24 y - Louisa ZINK, 9 years, yougster child arrived 10 Dec 1844 with the ship "Queen Victoria" which departed from Le Havre (France) Ewald -------------------------------------------------- From: "Robert Behra" <robtbehra@aol.com> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 9:00 PM To: <alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com> Subject: [A-L] Celestin Zinck > > > Helen, > > I lost site of which of the Zinck children you were after. Celestin > Zinck, son of Joseph Zinck and Thérèse Enderlin, was born in Sausheim 6 > Apr 1820 at 8pm. So maybe the two children who were mentioned on the > passport entry were unmarried children (Celestin and one other), and > the two married sons came separately. > > Robert Behra > > -- > Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Helen, The information was in front of us all from the beginning, as is seen in this sketch from the CDHF site: http://www.cdhf.net/fr/index.php?t=bases&d=bases%2Fnotices&c=notices&f=selection&p=&order=uid&order2=1&motcle=&nom1=zinck "Le listing des passeports déjà cité, réalisé par Dominique DREYER, nous informe que François Joseph ZINCK cordonnier de Sausheim demanda en 1844 l'autorisation d'émigrer vers Cincinnati. Natif de Wittenheim, il quitta l'Alsace avec sa femme et leurs deux enfants." Robert Behra -----Original Message----- From: Robert Behra <robtbehra@aol.com> To: alsace-lorraine <alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thu, Sep 27, 2012 12:44 pm Subject: Re: [A-L] Which Muhlhausen are the ZINCK Family from? Helen, ZINCK François Joseph 57 cordonnier Wittenheim / Sausheim sa femme et ses 2 enf . C 8 oct . 1844 Cincinnati 11 oct . 1844 This is taken from Dominique Dreyer's book Émigrants haut-rhinois en Amérique 1800-1870 (also called Liste nominative des haut-rhinois ayant émigré en Amérique entre 1800 et 1870). What it says is that François Joseph Zinck, aged 57, a shoemaker, born in Wittenheim and living in Sausheim, received a passport dated Colmar 8 Oct 1844, destination Cincinnati, for himself, his wife and two children, and they left (whether this means they left home or left France I don't know) 11 Oct 1844. In Sausheim records you will find a marriage 22 Apr 1844 between: François Joseph Zinck, aged 25, shoemaker born in Sausheim, son of Joseph Zinck, shoemaker, and Thérèse Enderlin all residents of Sausheim and Thérèse Graff, aged 27, living in Bantzenheim [she signed the record "Theresia Graf"] born in Bantzenheim, daughter of Joseph Graff, farmer (who died in Bantzenheim 31 Jan 1829) and Marie Anne Cronenberger (who died in Bantzenheim 4 Feb 1834) Witnesses: Antoine Stehlin, aged 46, tailor Antoine Hürtiger, aged 33, weaver, first cousin of the groom Séraphin Tischmacher, aged 26, barrel maker, also first cousin of the groom François Antoine Zinck, aged 34, shoemaker, brother of the groom, living in Grentzingen the first three witness all living in Sausheim That brother who appears as a witness was himself married in Sausheim 1 Aug 1842, to Anne Marie Billand of Grentzingen. François Joseph Zinck was born in Sausheim 13 Jul 1818 at 8am to Joseph Zinck, aged 30, shoemaker, and his wife Thérèse Enderlin. That couple was married in Sausheim 24 Apr 1809: François Joseph Zinck, shoemaker born in Wittenheim 15 Sep 1787, son of François Antoine Zinck, shoemaker, and Magdeleine Bihl, both living in Wittenheim and Therese Enderlin born in Sausheim 29 May 1788, daughter of Thiebaud Enderlin, shoolteacher (who died in Sausheim 27 Feb 1788, making his daughter posthumous), and Catherine Sohler This should get you started. You ought to be able to find this family (the elder Joseph and Thérèse, their two sons and presumably the two daughters-in-law, though they aren't specified in the passport entry) coming in on a ship in December 1844 or January 1845. Robert Behra -- Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
This identification of Melanie as the child born in Feb 1845 is backed up by the following: MARX "Martin" EGETTER, s/o Jean/John EGETTER & Elisabeth [--?--], was born February 1844 Alsace, France; emigrated from France with his parents abt. 1852-1854; married abt. 1866 to Melania "Nellie" ZINCK; died 28 August 1926 Los Angeles, California. Melania, dau/o Joseph Zinck & Theresa [--?--], was born February 1845 Alsace, France; died 29 September 1924 Los Angeles, California. Martin and Melania resided in Dayton, Montgomery County, Ohio before removing to California. Children: Clara A., Anna "Anne" M., John C., Charlotte, Charles Henry, Joseph William, & Flora Louise EGETTER. (Source: 2007, E-mail to ASH: Information, family photos, etc. courtesy of C. J. Egetter & Gay Ellen (Egetter) Hanlon) from http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~grannyapple/EGETTER/EGETTER-A-Z.html -----Original Message----- From: Robert Behra <robtbehra@aol.com> To: alsace-lorraine <alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thu, Sep 27, 2012 3:50 pm Subject: Re: [A-L] Fw: Celestin Zinck The Melanie Zinck mentioned as arriving in 1848 may (despite the discrepancy in age) be the Mélanie Zinck, born in Sausheim 9 Feb 1845 at 11am, daughter of Joseph Zinck and Thérèse Graff. Their other children were: Ernest, b. 16 Mar 1846 at 9pm; d. 29 Apr 1847 at 8pm Line, b. 7 Jun 1847 at 2am; d. 10 Aug 1847 at 4pm Robert Behra -----Original Message----- From: Ewald K. <ewald.klein@gmail.com> To: alsace-lorraine <alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thu, Sep 27, 2012 2:31 pm Subject: [A-L] Fw: Celestin Zinck To complete my previous message, according to the site www. castlegarden.org: - Joseph ZINCK, farmer, 30 years old - Therese ZINCK farmer, 36 years (!) - Melanie ZINCK 1 y, yougster child arrived 14 March 1848 with the ship "ANCONA" which departed from Le Havre (France) Ewald -------------------------------------------------- From: "Ewald K." <ewald.klein@gmail.com> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 9:59 PM To: <alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [A-L] Celestin Zinck > Hi, > > According to the site www. castlegarden.org: > - Joseph ZINK, farmer, 56 years old > - Theresa ANDERLIN farmer, 56 years > - Celestine ZINK (mentioned as female!), farmer, 24 y > - Louisa ZINK, 9 years, yougster child > arrived 10 Dec 1844 with the ship "Queen Victoria" which departed from Le > Havre (France) > > Ewald > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Robert Behra" <robtbehra@aol.com> > Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 9:00 PM > To: <alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com> > Subject: [A-L] Celestin Zinck > >> >> >> Helen, >> >> I lost site of which of the Zinck children you were after. Celestin >> Zinck, son of Joseph Zinck and Thérèse Enderlin, was born in Sausheim 6 >> Apr 1820 at 8pm. So maybe the two children who were mentioned on the >> passport entry were unmarried children (Celestin and one other), and >> the two married sons came separately. >> >> Robert Behra >> >> -- >> Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
The Melanie Zinck mentioned as arriving in 1848 may (despite the discrepancy in age) be the Mélanie Zinck, born in Sausheim 9 Feb 1845 at 11am, daughter of Joseph Zinck and Thérèse Graff. Their other children were: Ernest, b. 16 Mar 1846 at 9pm; d. 29 Apr 1847 at 8pm Line, b. 7 Jun 1847 at 2am; d. 10 Aug 1847 at 4pm Robert Behra -----Original Message----- From: Ewald K. <ewald.klein@gmail.com> To: alsace-lorraine <alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thu, Sep 27, 2012 2:31 pm Subject: [A-L] Fw: Celestin Zinck To complete my previous message, according to the site www. castlegarden.org: - Joseph ZINCK, farmer, 30 years old - Therese ZINCK farmer, 36 years (!) - Melanie ZINCK 1 y, yougster child arrived 14 March 1848 with the ship "ANCONA" which departed from Le Havre (France) Ewald -------------------------------------------------- From: "Ewald K." <ewald.klein@gmail.com> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 9:59 PM To: <alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [A-L] Celestin Zinck > Hi, > > According to the site www. castlegarden.org: > - Joseph ZINK, farmer, 56 years old > - Theresa ANDERLIN farmer, 56 years > - Celestine ZINK (mentioned as female!), farmer, 24 y > - Louisa ZINK, 9 years, yougster child > arrived 10 Dec 1844 with the ship "Queen Victoria" which departed from Le > Havre (France) > > Ewald > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Robert Behra" <robtbehra@aol.com> > Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 9:00 PM > To: <alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com> > Subject: [A-L] Celestin Zinck > >> >> >> Helen, >> >> I lost site of which of the Zinck children you were after. Celestin >> Zinck, son of Joseph Zinck and Thérèse Enderlin, was born in Sausheim 6 >> Apr 1820 at 8pm. So maybe the two children who were mentioned on the >> passport entry were unmarried children (Celestin and one other), and >> the two married sons came separately. >> >> Robert Behra >> >> -- >> Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Helen, I lost site of which of the Zinck children you were after. Celestin Zinck, son of Joseph Zinck and Thérèse Enderlin, was born in Sausheim 6 Apr 1820 at 8pm. So maybe the two children who were mentioned on the passport entry were unmarried children (Celestin and one other), and the two married sons came separately. Robert Behra
Helen, ZINCK François Joseph 57 cordonnier Wittenheim / Sausheim sa femme et ses 2 enf . C 8 oct . 1844 Cincinnati 11 oct . 1844 This is taken from Dominique Dreyer's book Émigrants haut-rhinois en Amérique 1800-1870 (also called Liste nominative des haut-rhinois ayant émigré en Amérique entre 1800 et 1870). What it says is that François Joseph Zinck, aged 57, a shoemaker, born in Wittenheim and living in Sausheim, received a passport dated Colmar 8 Oct 1844, destination Cincinnati, for himself, his wife and two children, and they left (whether this means they left home or left France I don't know) 11 Oct 1844. In Sausheim records you will find a marriage 22 Apr 1844 between: François Joseph Zinck, aged 25, shoemaker born in Sausheim, son of Joseph Zinck, shoemaker, and Thérèse Enderlin all residents of Sausheim and Thérèse Graff, aged 27, living in Bantzenheim [she signed the record "Theresia Graf"] born in Bantzenheim, daughter of Joseph Graff, farmer (who died in Bantzenheim 31 Jan 1829) and Marie Anne Cronenberger (who died in Bantzenheim 4 Feb 1834) Witnesses: Antoine Stehlin, aged 46, tailor Antoine Hürtiger, aged 33, weaver, first cousin of the groom Séraphin Tischmacher, aged 26, barrel maker, also first cousin of the groom François Antoine Zinck, aged 34, shoemaker, brother of the groom, living in Grentzingen the first three witness all living in Sausheim That brother who appears as a witness was himself married in Sausheim 1 Aug 1842, to Anne Marie Billand of Grentzingen. François Joseph Zinck was born in Sausheim 13 Jul 1818 at 8am to Joseph Zinck, aged 30, shoemaker, and his wife Thérèse Enderlin. That couple was married in Sausheim 24 Apr 1809: François Joseph Zinck, shoemaker born in Wittenheim 15 Sep 1787, son of François Antoine Zinck, shoemaker, and Magdeleine Bihl, both living in Wittenheim and Therese Enderlin born in Sausheim 29 May 1788, daughter of Thiebaud Enderlin, shoolteacher (who died in Sausheim 27 Feb 1788, making his daughter posthumous), and Catherine Sohler This should get you started. You ought to be able to find this family (the elder Joseph and Thérèse, their two sons and presumably the two daughters-in-law, though they aren't specified in the passport entry) coming in on a ship in December 1844 or January 1845. Robert Behra
One more thought... has anyone checked for Helen's family members in the1836 census? ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From: Helen Lehman <hlehman48@aol.com> To: alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com Subject: [A-L] Which Muhlhausen are the ZINCK Family from? Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 15:36:34 -0400 (EDT) Hello, I seek someadvice about where to look for records? My husband’s ancestor Celestine/Colestin ZINCK/ZINK was born 06 April1821 “near Muhlhausen in Alsace”, according to his obituary in the Gedenk-Blatter,Dayton [Ohio, USA] German newspaper of memorial obituaries. Weknow he came to the USA in about 1844, also in his obit. He married Regina Rachel Lehman(n) atEmmanuel Catholic Church in Dayton on 28 June 1847. His father was Joseph Zinck- born abt. 1780,died 10 June 1865 in Montgomery County (near Dayton). I believe his mother was Terressa – born1784, died 02 Nov 1853 in Dayton. Iknow, from his father’s last will and testament, that he had two brothers;Anton 1810-1889 and Joseph 1820-1855. Both brothers died in Dayton or the area. The whole family are of the Roman Catholicreligion, at least after they came here. I made theassumption that my best bet would be to check the records of the Catholic Churchfor “near Muhlhausen in Alsace”. Istarted with the city of Mulhausen that is north-northeast of Haguenau. Unless I made a mistake, the Catholic Churchclosest to this Mulhausen would be Pfaffenhoffen. I read (as best I could) the baptismalrecords for 1768-1792 but failed to find even one occurrence of the surname ofZINCK/ZINK. I searchedthe civil births of the town of Mulhouse, Haut-Rhin, France for the years 1802through 1830 for Zinck family members. I searched the followingmicrofilms from the Family History Library: Film #'s 715480 (Ten-yearindexes 1802-1822), 739888 (births 1802-1805), 739889 (births 1806-1819), and739890 (births 1820-1830). Between 1802 and 1820 I located two Zinckfamilies residing in this town. There was the family of Jean Zinck and BarbaraObrecht. I located one child born to them in 1811 named Jacques. The other family was the family of Jacques Zinck and MargueriteTritthardt. I identified two children born to them, Jean on 29 July 1811and Susanne, born in 1814. Between 1820 and 1830 I located four Zinckchildren born. The following were children of Jean Zinck and RosineSollinger: Jean, born 20 November 1825 and Rosine, born 11 July1827. Henriette Zinck was born to the unmarried Madelaine Zinck on 29June 1828. Sophie Zinck was born, also in 1828, to Jacque Zinck andSophie Dridhard. These were the only Zincks that I found born in Mulhouseduring this time period. Could theyhave left a different Muhlhausen? Whatexactly does “near Muhlhausen in Alsace” mean? I havealready corresponded with Mr. Bruno Sauer at the Catholic Church in Muhlhausen,Baden-Wurttemberg, Germany. He doesn’thave any ZINCK/ZINK records there. Anysuggestions will be greatly appreciated. Helen Lehman [hlehman48@aol.com] -- Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ____________________________________________________________ Woman is 53 But Looks 25 Mom reveals 1 simple wrinkle trick that has angered doctors... http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5060e8b98cc868b814c1st03duc
Helen..I may have missed it...Have you checked the records of Emmanuel Catholic Church in Daytonwhere he married Regina Rachel Lehman(n) a on 28 June 1847.I've found that during that era,Catholic church's kept their records as they did in Europe--Ie birth, death and christening recordsPLUS familybook records (if you're not familiar with these, they are very similar to the familyrecords sheets used by genealogists. Familybooks were begun with the birth of the first child My Catholic Alsatian ancestors who immigrated abt the same time, and settled in villages on the outskirts of Cleveland.Their family book pages and the the christening records oftheir first born children included the parents birth villages. However, after they'd had fiveor six kids the Priest stopped entering the birth village info of the parents) Hopefully, the records of Emmanuel Catholic Church were microfilmed by theLDS church and you can order them from the Salt Lake Library. if not available through thelocal church they should be available via the diocese. (Tho I advise you phone to make surewhich diocese would have the records from that church and time period. Since the jurisidiction ofthe diocese changed as the number of churches multipledShirley in San Diego ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Helen Lehman <hlehman48@aol.com> To: alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com Subject: [A-L] Which Muhlhausen are the ZINCK Family from? Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 15:36:34 -0400 (EDT) Hello, I seek someadvice about where to look for records? My husband’s ancestor Celestine/Colestin ZINCK/ZINK was born 06 April1821 “near Muhlhausen in Alsace”, according to his obituary in the Gedenk-Blatter,Dayton [Ohio, USA] German newspaper of memorial obituaries. Weknow he came to the USA in about 1844, also in his obit. He married Regina Rachel Lehman(n) atEmmanuel Catholic Church in Dayton on 28 June 1847. His father was Joseph Zinck- born abt. 1780,died 10 June 1865 in Montgomery County (near Dayton). I believe his mother was Terressa – born1784, died 02 Nov 1853 in Dayton. Iknow, from his father’s last will and testament, that he had two brothers;Anton 1810-1889 and Joseph 1820-1855. Both brothers died in Dayton or the area. The whole family are of the Roman Catholicreligion, at least after they came here. I made theassumption that my best bet would be to check the records of the Catholic Churchfor “near Muhlhausen in Alsace”. Istarted with the city of Mulhausen that is north-northeast of Haguenau. Unless I made a mistake, the Catholic Churchclosest to this Mulhausen would be Pfaffenhoffen. I read (as best I could) the baptismalrecords for 1768-1792 but failed to find even one occurrence of the surname ofZINCK/ZINK. I searchedthe civil births of the town of Mulhouse, Haut-Rhin, France for the years 1802through 1830 for Zinck family members. I searched the followingmicrofilms from the Family History Library: Film #'s 715480 (Ten-yearindexes 1802-1822), 739888 (births 1802-1805), 739889 (births 1806-1819), and739890 (births 1820-1830). Between 1802 and 1820 I located two Zinckfamilies residing in this town. There was the family of Jean Zinck and BarbaraObrecht. I located one child born to them in 1811 named Jacques. The other family was the family of Jacques Zinck and MargueriteTritthardt. I identified two children born to them, Jean on 29 July 1811and Susanne, born in 1814. Between 1820 and 1830 I located four Zinckchildren born. The following were children of Jean Zinck and RosineSollinger: Jean, born 20 November 1825 and Rosine, born 11 July1827. Henriette Zinck was born to the unmarried Madelaine Zinck on 29June 1828. Sophie Zinck was born, also in 1828, to Jacque Zinck andSophie Dridhard. These were the only Zincks that I found born in Mulhouseduring this time period. Could theyhave left a different Muhlhausen? Whatexactly does “near Muhlhausen in Alsace” mean? I havealready corresponded with Mr. Bruno Sauer at the Catholic Church in Muhlhausen,Baden-Wurttemberg, Germany. He doesn’thave any ZINCK/ZINK records there. Anysuggestions will be greatly appreciated. Helen Lehman [hlehman48@aol.com] -- Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ____________________________________________________________ NetZero now offers 4G mobile broadband. Sign up now. http://www.netzero.net/?refcd=NZINTISP0512T4GOUT1
You say the article says "near Mulhausen", but you list a source which by it's name appears to be a German speaking paper. Is the obituary in English or German? Does it say "near" or "bei"? If it says "bei" what is the word before it. It could be the name of the actual town, and the "bei Mulhausen" is merely tacked on to the end of the actual town name, to distinguish it from other possible towns with the same name. Just a guess. As Robert notes, if you don't have the actual town you could be in for a bit of hunting. I have a few situations that require such searching, and a good 100 or more towns to look through, as the family was moving about quite a bit during the French Revolution period. A project for my old age, perhaps. HTH, Brian On Tue, September 11, 2012 2:36 pm, Helen Lehman wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > I seek someadvice about where to look for records? My husband’s ancestor > Celestine/Colestin ZINCK/ZINK was born 06 April1821 “near Muhlhausen in > Alsace”, according to his obituary in the Gedenk-Blatter,Dayton [Ohio, > USA] German newspaper of memorial obituaries. Weknow he came to the USA > in about 1844, also in his obit. He married Regina Rachel Lehman(n) > at Emmanuel Catholic Church in Dayton on 28 June 1847. His father was > Joseph Zinck- born abt. 1780,died 10 June 1865 in Montgomery County (near > Dayton). I believe his mother was Terressa – born1784, died 02 Nov 1853 > in Dayton. Iknow, from his father’s last will and testament, that he had > two brothers;Anton 1810-1889 and Joseph 1820-1855. Both brothers died in > Dayton or the area. The whole family are of the Roman Catholic religion, > at least after they came here. > > ...
Helen, If you do a search for the name Zinck at www.geopatronyme.com and click on the results for Haut-Rhin you'll see that there are 14 communities in which there were Zincks between 1891-1915: Colmar Mulhouse Guebwiller Mertzen Wittenheim Eguisheim Gommersdorf Saint Louis Buhl Galfingue Hagenbach Lièpvre Pfaffenheim Soultz Haut Rhin Of these, all but Colmar and Lièpvre are within 25 miles of Mulhouse. Another way to identify communities in which the name was found is to do a search at www.geneanet.org. To the list above you can add: Riedisheim Niederlarg Steinbrunn-le-Bas Burnhaupt-le-Bas Turckheim and others. You can also search the databases available at www.cdhf.net from which you can add: Battenheim Wuenheim Hirsingue Bollwiller Hartmannswiller etc. In short, Zinck is not an uncommon surname in this part of Alsace. The civil records for Haut-Rhin are available online, which makes the search less time-consuming than it used to be (when you had to order microfilm from Salt Lake City): http://www.archives.cg68.fr/Services_Actes_Civils.aspx Good luck with your search. Robert Behra -----Original Message----- From: Helen Lehman <hlehman48@aol.com> To: alsace-lorraine <alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sun, Sep 23, 2012 7:25 am Subject: [A-L] Which Muhlhausen are the ZINCK Family from? Hello, I seek someadvice about where to look for records? My husband’s ancestor Celestine/Colestin ZINCK/ZINK was born 06 April1821 “near Muhlhausen in Alsace”, according to his obituary in the Gedenk-Blatter,Dayton [Ohio, USA] German newspaper of memorial obituaries. Weknow he came to the USA in about 1844, also in his obit. He married Regina Rachel Lehman(n) atEmmanuel Catholic Church in Dayton on 28 June 1847. His father was Joseph Zinck- born abt. 1780,died 10 June 1865 in Montgomery County (near Dayton). I believe his mother was Terressa – born1784, died 02 Nov 1853 in Dayton. Iknow, from his father’s last will and testament, that he had two brothers;Anton 1810-1889 and Joseph 1820-1855. Both brothers died in Dayton or the area. The whole family are of the Roman Catholicreligion, at least after they came here. I made theassumption that my best bet would be to check the records of the Catholic Churchfor “near Muhlhausen in Alsace”. Istarted with the city of Mulhausen that is north-northeast of Haguenau. Unless I made a mistake, the Catholic Churchclosest to this Mulhausen would be Pfaffenhoffen. I read (as best I could) the baptismalrecords for 1768-1792 but failed to find even one occurrence of the surname ofZINCK/ZINK. I searchedthe civil births of the town of Mulhouse, Haut-Rhin, France for the years 1802through 1830 for Zinck family members. I searched the followingmicrofilms from the Family History Library: Film #'s 715480 (Ten-yearindexes 1802-1822), 739888 (births 1802-1805), 739889 (births 1806-1819), and739890 (births 1820-1830). Between 1802 and 1820 I located two Zinckfamilies residing in this town. There was the family of Jean Zinck and BarbaraObrecht. I located one child born to them in 1811 named Jacques. The other family was the family of Jacques Zinck and MargueriteTritthardt. I identified two children born to them, Jean on 29 July 1811and Susanne, born in 1814. Between 1820 and 1830 I located four Zinckchildren born. The following were children of Jean Zinck and RosineSollinger: Jean, born 20 November 1825 and Rosine, born 11 July1827. Henriette Zinck was born to the unmarried Madelaine Zinck on 29June 1828. Sophie Zinck was born, also in 1828, to Jacque Zinck andSophie Dridhard. These were the only Zincks that I found born in Mulhouseduring this time period. Could theyhave left a different Muhlhausen? Whatexactly does “near Muhlhausen in Alsace” mean? I havealready corresponded with Mr. Bruno Sauer at the Catholic Church in Muhlhausen,Baden-Wurttemberg, Germany. He doesn’thave any ZINCK/ZINK records there. Anysuggestions will be greatly appreciated. Helen Lehman [hlehman48@aol.com] -- Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Corrigendum: in 1851 Algeria was French. The conquest ended 1847 and Algeria was annexed 1848. Etienne Le 23 sept. 12 à 09:26, Etienne Herrbach a écrit : > Hello SCott, > > it is a transcription of a record from a military hospital in Algeria > (it was during the French conquest of Algeria) into the register of > Habsheim. I understand that the mother was alive and the father dead. > > Extrait mortuaire > Service des hôpitaux militaires, commune Sidi Bel Abbes, armée > d'Afrique > Hôpital militaire de Sidi Bel Abbes, du registre des décès dudit > hôpital > KOLB André Bernard Vital > sergent fourrier (quartermaster), 1. Régiment Légion Etrangère > (Foreign Legion), 2. Bataillon Grenadiers, N° 11021 > born 28 April 1827 Habsheim, son of Joseph (dead) and Marie BAUMANN > entered hospital 13 December 1850, died there 10 February 1851, 1 pm, > due to "blood alteration" > certified by administration officer and accountant, Sidi Bel Abbes 10 > February 1851, E. Bichet > certified by Fl---t 10 February 1851 > transcribed by the mayor of Habsheim 18 March 1851 > > > Etienne > > > > > Le 23 sept. 12 à 05:04, Scotty B. a écrit : > >> Hello, >> >> I found a death record which I would really appreciate a >> translation on if at all possible. >> >> It is in Habsheim, Décès, 1817-1862 on page 292 and is record #7. >> It is for a Andre Bernard Vital Kolb who apparently died due to >> injuries in the army although I’m not quite sure. >> I would like to know if it mentions if his mother is still alive. >> She would me Marie Sophie Baumann. Whatever information can be >> translating would be appreciated as I can’t make out the death date >> and it appears he was wounded in the war or soemthing like that. >> >> Thank you for your help, >> Scott Baumann > > > > > > -- > Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message
Hello.....my great great Grandfather was John Delesse who immigrated in 1847 from Hombourg-Haut, Lorraine France.. He was born in Hombourg-Haut, Lorraine France in 1819, and married there in 1845. After immigrating he settled .in Missouri where he died in 1902. His obituary indicated that he had served 7 years in the French army. Using age 18 as the date of his start of service would place his dates of service of 1837 to 1845. What does one need to know to find his military records and where would they be found? Thanks for the help. Ray
Hello SCott, it is a transcription of a record from a military hospital in Algeria (it was during the French conquest of Algeria) into the register of Habsheim. I understand that the mother was alive and the father dead. Extrait mortuaire Service des hôpitaux militaires, commune Sidi Bel Abbes, armée d'Afrique Hôpital militaire de Sidi Bel Abbes, du registre des décès dudit hôpital KOLB André Bernard Vital sergent fourrier (quartermaster), 1. Régiment Légion Etrangère (Foreign Legion), 2. Bataillon Grenadiers, N° 11021 born 28 April 1827 Habsheim, son of Joseph (dead) and Marie BAUMANN entered hospital 13 December 1850, died there 10 February 1851, 1 pm, due to "blood alteration" certified by administration officer and accountant, Sidi Bel Abbes 10 February 1851, E. Bichet certified by Fl---t 10 February 1851 transcribed by the mayor of Habsheim 18 March 1851 Etienne Le 23 sept. 12 à 05:04, Scotty B. a écrit : > Hello, > > I found a death record which I would really appreciate a > translation on if at all possible. > > It is in Habsheim, Décès, 1817-1862 on page 292 and is record #7. > It is for a Andre Bernard Vital Kolb who apparently died due to > injuries in the army although I’m not quite sure. > I would like to know if it mentions if his mother is still alive. > She would me Marie Sophie Baumann. Whatever information can be > translating would be appreciated as I can’t make out the death date > and it appears he was wounded in the war or soemthing like that. > > Thank you for your help, > Scott Baumann
Hi Scott, The records of Giromagny are online at: http://www.archives.cg90.fr/ark:/12997/a011341578574tfePw2/1/1 Fernand Eugène Paul André HENRY was born 13 sept 1863, son of Antoine HENRY, pharmacist/druggist (pharmacien) and Joséphine FUCHS. (births 1863-1869, picture number 19/362 ) Ewald -------------------------------------------------- From: "Etienne Herrbach" <etienne.herrbach@wanadoo.fr> Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2012 6:22 PM To: <alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [A-L] Deces record in Bollwiller > Hello Scott, > > Death record No 12, Bollwiller 29 April 1892 > Ferdinand Paul HENRY > declarant: Paul ZURLINDEN, Rentner = pensioner, residing Bollwiller, > Feldkirchergasse = Feldkirch street > death of Ferdinand Paul HENRY, Artz = doctor (in medicine), aged 28 y > 7 m, Catholic, > residing Giromagny, France [in the "Territoire de Belfort", former > part of Alsace that remained French when Alsace was annexed to Germany > 1871] > born Giromagny, husband of Bertha ZURLINDEN, without occupation, > residing Giromagny > son of the owner Anton HENRY ans his wife Josephine FUCHS, both dead > and residing Giromagny > died 29 April Bollwiller, in the house of the declarant, 6 am > > > Etienne > > > Le 22 sept. 12 à 06:42, Scotty B. a écrit : > >> Hello, >> I found a grave in my family plot while in Bollwiller this past >> weekend and I have looked up this record for death in the online >> records. >> Bollwiller, Décès, 1883-1892 and on page 166 is a death record for >> a Paul Henry who apparently died April 29, and is record # 12. >> >> Could someone who reads German please tell me what information is on >> this document. I wonder why he is buried in my family plot and would >> like to know if there is a connection with the family. >> >> thank you, >> Scott Baumann > > > -- > Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message