Thank you to all that responded to my email about the name "Johannes" or "Joannes" being used before another name: e.g. Joannes Jacob Braun. I have noticed that families will put that name before the names of boys in the family. What is the reason or tradition for it? Thanks again. Mary Jo

Please note that the name was and is not limited to Catholics! In a message dated 10/21/2012 8:37:55 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, gbw1@comcast.net writes: Most of the catholic gave at least two first names for the child's baptism. Johannes is the first name under which he was baptized. The middle name Jacob MAY have been used as the common first name as often seen in Alsace, but I would not say this usage was 100%. A lot of first names are still nowadays a combination of two in France, especially with John or Mary; for example Jean-Jacques (Johannes Jacobus noted below) Jean-Paul, Jean-Marie - for boys; or Marie-Helene, Marie-Pierre or Marie-Jeanne - for girls. I would not disregard the fact that Johannes may have been a name used for males in the family. -Giliane -----Original Message----- From: alsace-lorraine-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:alsace-lorraine-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of JYoung6180@aol.com Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2012 2:38 AM To: alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [A-L] Question I think Mary is referring to way Johan or Johann is used as a prename. When you see Johan or Johann in front of another name it serves as a prename or saints name. This doesn't equate to the American usage of a given name/first name. The "middle" name---in this case Jacob, is the call name, given name, or "rufname" and is the name generally in common usage. Joan In a message dated 10/21/2012 1:31:17 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, MizScarlettNY@aol.com writes: The name translates to John. mjwarren@eot.com writes: > Could someone please tell me what the name "Joannes" or "Johannes" > means when it is in front of the main name. e.g. Joannes Jacob Braun. > Or was Joannes a real name that may be used for one or more males in > the family? > Thanks. > Mary Jo Warren > -- Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Most of the catholic gave at least two first names for the child's baptism. Johannes is the first name under which he was baptized. The middle name Jacob MAY have been used as the common first name as often seen in Alsace, but I would not say this usage was 100%. A lot of first names are still nowadays a combination of two in France, especially with John or Mary; for example Jean-Jacques (Johannes Jacobus noted below) Jean-Paul, Jean-Marie - for boys; or Marie-Helene, Marie-Pierre or Marie-Jeanne - for girls. I would not disregard the fact that Johannes may have been a name used for males in the family. -Giliane -----Original Message----- From: alsace-lorraine-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:alsace-lorraine-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of JYoung6180@aol.com Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2012 2:38 AM To: alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [A-L] Question I think Mary is referring to way Johan or Johann is used as a prename. When you see Johan or Johann in front of another name it serves as a prename or saints name. This doesn't equate to the American usage of a given name/first name. The "middle" name---in this case Jacob, is the call name, given name, or "rufname" and is the name generally in common usage. Joan In a message dated 10/21/2012 1:31:17 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, MizScarlettNY@aol.com writes: The name translates to John. mjwarren@eot.com writes: > Could someone please tell me what the name "Joannes" or "Johannes" > means when it is in front of the main name. e.g. Joannes Jacob Braun. > Or was Joannes a real name that may be used for one or more males in > the family? > Thanks. > Mary Jo Warren > -- Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Johannes was often used by the Germans and translated Johon In a message dated 10/20/2012 10:21:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mjwarren@eot.com writes: Could someone please tell me what the name "Joannes" or "Johannes" means when it is in front of the main name. e.g. Joannes Jacob Braun. Or was Joannes a real name that may be used for one or more males in the family? Thanks. Mary Jo Warren -- Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I think Mary is referring to way Johan or Johann is used as a prename. When you see Johan or Johann in front of another name it serves as a prename or saints name. This doesn't equate to the American usage of a given name/first name. The "middle" name---in this case Jacob, is the call name, given name, or "rufname" and is the name generally in common usage. Joan In a message dated 10/21/2012 1:31:17 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, MizScarlettNY@aol.com writes: The name translates to John. mjwarren@eot.com writes: > Could someone please tell me what the name "Joannes" or "Johannes" means > when it is in front of the main name. e.g. Joannes Jacob Braun. Or was > Joannes a real name that may be used for one or more males in the family? > Thanks. > Mary Jo Warren > -- Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The name translates to John. mjwarren@eot.com writes: > Could someone please tell me what the name "Joannes" or "Johannes" means > when it is in front of the main name. e.g. Joannes Jacob Braun. Or was > Joannes a real name that may be used for one or more males in the family? > Thanks. > Mary Jo Warren >

Could someone please tell me what the name "Joannes" or "Johannes" means when it is in front of the main name. e.g. Joannes Jacob Braun. Or was Joannes a real name that may be used for one or more males in the family? Thanks. Mary Jo Warren

Dwayne, What I see is "ex parochia aeyschensi trans Rhenum Dioecesis [B?]ambergensis" and later "in dicta parochia aeyshen". It MAY BE Aisch (post code 91325), a small town on the Aisch River in the Landkreis Erlangen-Höchstadt, today part of the town of Adelsdorf. See http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adelsdorf In the 1920s Aisch was almost entirely Catholic (597 Catholics, 31 Lutherans). Unfortunately this can't be confirmed as easily as we might like, since there don't appear to be any church records for this area available at the Family History Library. Robert Behra -----Original Message----- From: Dwayne Montz <dmontz24@sbcglobal.net> To: ALSACE-LORRAINE <ALSACE-LORRAINE@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sat, Oct 20, 2012 5:20 pm Subject: [A-L] Help reading 1750 Bas-Rhin Latin marriage record I am not able to read the place of origin of the groom as listed in his 1750 marriage record. Refer to Landersheim, Bas-Rhin, marriages, 1696-1791, 3E-258/3, on-line image 29 of 59, marriage of Joannes Chrystophus Achtziger to Maria Laubin. The seventh line of the record notes that Achtziger is from the parish of "ceyschen sebzons Kleenund"??? in the diocese of Bamberg (Germany). I have searched various lists of villages near Bamberg but have found none similar to my reading of the names. Perhaps someone familiar with the parishes and villages near Bamberg will recognize the names in this marriage record. Many Thanks, Dwayne Montz -- Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I am not able to read the place of origin of the groom as listed in his 1750 marriage record. Refer to Landersheim, Bas-Rhin, marriages, 1696-1791, 3E-258/3, on-line image 29 of 59, marriage of Joannes Chrystophus Achtziger to Maria Laubin. The seventh line of the record notes that Achtziger is from the parish of "ceyschen sebzons Kleenund"??? in the diocese of Bamberg (Germany). I have searched various lists of villages near Bamberg but have found none similar to my reading of the names. Perhaps someone familiar with the parishes and villages near Bamberg will recognize the names in this marriage record. Many Thanks, Dwayne Montz

Thank You Robert > To: alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com > From: robtbehra@aol.com > Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2012 13:32:18 -0400 > Subject: Re: [A-L] Help reading death register in Colmar > > Pam, > > Death record of Barbe Rusterholtz: she died 11 Feb 1856 at 2pm in the > "hospice civil" (a local charity institution), at the age of 78. She > was called widow of Michel Ettlin, and said to have been born in > Fortschwihr (about 5 miles ENE of Colmar), daughter of Georges > Rusterholtz, a weaver, and Elisabeth Strudel. > > Death record of Michel Ettlé: he died 10 Apr 1853 at midnight in the > "hospice civil", at the age of 67. He was a butcher, husband of Barbe > Ruesterholtz, and said to have been born in Mulhouse, son of Jean > Ettlé, a butcher, and Catherine Lang. > > Robert Behra > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Pam Bylczynski <pamb-2011@hotmail.com> > To: ALSACE-LORRAINE@rootsweb.com <alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Mon, Oct 8, 2012 11:06 am > Subject: [A-L] Help reading death register in Colmar > > > > > > > I have found Michel Ettlin & Barbe Rusterhotlz in the death register > for Colmar > and need help reading them. Michel died April 10, 1853 and is on page > 30 top > right side #214Barbe died February 11, 1856 and is on page 436 left > side #68 > Barbe was the wife of Michel. They have Michel's last name as Ettle > but I am > sure this is the correct person. thank youPam Bylczynski > -- > Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the > body of > the message > > > > -- > Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Pam, Death record of Barbe Rusterholtz: she died 11 Feb 1856 at 2pm in the "hospice civil" (a local charity institution), at the age of 78. She was called widow of Michel Ettlin, and said to have been born in Fortschwihr (about 5 miles ENE of Colmar), daughter of Georges Rusterholtz, a weaver, and Elisabeth Strudel. Death record of Michel Ettlé: he died 10 Apr 1853 at midnight in the "hospice civil", at the age of 67. He was a butcher, husband of Barbe Ruesterholtz, and said to have been born in Mulhouse, son of Jean Ettlé, a butcher, and Catherine Lang. Robert Behra -----Original Message----- From: Pam Bylczynski <pamb-2011@hotmail.com> To: ALSACE-LORRAINE@rootsweb.com <alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com> Sent: Mon, Oct 8, 2012 11:06 am Subject: [A-L] Help reading death register in Colmar I have found Michel Ettlin & Barbe Rusterhotlz in the death register for Colmar and need help reading them. Michel died April 10, 1853 and is on page 30 top right side #214Barbe died February 11, 1856 and is on page 436 left side #68 Barbe was the wife of Michel. They have Michel's last name as Ettle but I am sure this is the correct person. thank youPam Bylczynski -- Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have found Michel Ettlin & Barbe Rusterhotlz in the death register for Colmar and need help reading them. Michel died April 10, 1853 and is on page 30 top right side #214Barbe died February 11, 1856 and is on page 436 left side #68 Barbe was the wife of Michel. They have Michel's last name as Ettle but I am sure this is the correct person. thank youPam Bylczynski

Hello, I would very much appreciate it if someone could please translate a birth acte for me as it is in German and I do not read German. It is located on Page 270 of Dornach, Naissances, 1877-1882 , (29 avril) and is for the birth of Alfred Steiger whom was born 2/2/1880. I do not know who his parents were or where they might have been from but if someone could please translate this for me I would be very grateful. Thank you, Scott Baumann

Hi, According to the site http://www.castlegarden.org/quick_search_detail.php?p_id=3775213 Margareth JACOB, 21 y, farmer, arrived 13 Jan 1854 with the ship Carolus Magnus coming from Le Havre (France). No other passenger with the name JACOB is listed on the same ship. Ewald -------------------------------------------------- From: "gloria ishida" <gfb-ishida@gol.com> Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2012 2:32 PM To: <Alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com> Subject: [A-L] immigration question > I have been away from Alsace researching for awhile but now have found > something that is perplexing. > > It is written in local secondary sources that my Great-great Grandmother > Catherine (Catherina) Jacob arrived in the United States (Ohio) in either > 1854(obituary) or 1855 (1900 US census). > She was born in 1833 in Niederroedern, Alsace. Most of my records for the > Jacob family and related families are fairly complete with a couple brick > walls. > > When I still had ancestry.com subscription I could not find records that > fit for her nor others available online. > > This record is the perplexing one. > > Margareth Jacob, age 21, France, arrival (no port) Jan. 13, 1854, > destination USA, birth date, 1833. Germans to America Passenger Data file > > In baptismal and civil birth records, she has only that single name, > Catherina. But her mother's and grandmother's names were Marguerite. > Could their have been confusion in the German to America file with her > mother's name and hers? Her father was long deceased. > > To make things more confusing, I found by googling: > > "Bremen ship ALBERT, Remme, master ... sailed from Bremen June 20, 1854 > ... arriving at Baltimore August 8, 1854. It goes on to state that > National Archives (USA) ... is misfiled under January 13....More is found > dated June 15 5 days before departure. the passenger arrival list, dated > August 10, 1854, two days after arrival, is microfilmed on National > Archives Microfilm Publication M255, roll 10, no. 66 - Germans to america, > vol.8. pp 24-25. > > While most folks from Alsace to America sailed from Le Havre, it is not > impossible, I suppose, some went to Bremen. I have no idea with whom > Catherine might have been traveling with; she was only 21. > > Any help, hints, suggestions will be much appreciated. > > > Gloria Ishida > Japan > > > "Genealogy. An account of one's descent from an ancestor who did not > particularly care to trace his own." Ambrose Bierce > > -- > Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

My greatgrandmother, Catherine Braun, was born in St. Avold and came to the U.S. on the S.S. Nuremberg, which embarked at Harve and landed in New Orleans, Louisiana, on October 29, 1860. The passenger list indicated that she was 16 years old and her sister, Marie, was 12. We think that they were really two or three years younger than that. The passenger list did not indicate that they were accompanied by anyone. Fred Kopfler On 29 Sep 2012, gloria ishida wrote: I have been away from Alsace researching for awhile but now have found something that is perplexing. It is written in local secondary sources that my Great-great Grandmother Catherine (Catherina) Jacob arrived in the United States (Ohio) in either 1854(obituary) or 1855 (1900 US census). She was born in 1833 in Niederroedern, Alsace. Most of my records for the Jacob family and related families are fairly complete with a couple brick walls. When I still had ancestry.com subscription I could not find records that fit for her nor others available online. This record is the perplexing one. Margareth Jacob, age 21, France, arrival (no port) Jan. 13, 1854, destination USA, birth date, 1833. Germans to America Passenger Data file In baptismal and civil birth records, she has only that single name, Catherina. But her mother's and grandmother's names were Marguerite. Could their have been confusion in the German to America file with her mother's name and hers? Her father was long deceased. To make things more confusing, I found by googling: "Bremen ship ALBERT, Remme, master ... sailed from Bremen June 20, 1854 ... arriving at Baltimore August 8, 1854. It goes on to state that National Archives (USA) ... is misfiled under January 13....More is found dated June 15 5 days before departure. the passenger arrival list, dated August 10, 1854, two days after arrival, is microfilmed on National Archives Microfilm Publication M255, roll 10, no. 66 - Germans to america, vol.8. pp 24-25. While most folks from Alsace to America sailed from Le Havre, it is not impossible, I suppose, some went to Bremen. I have no idea with whom Catherine might have been traveling with; she was only 21. Any help, hints, suggestions will be much appreciated. Gloria Ishida Japan

I agree passenger lists can be somewhat misleading, although they are good clues. Sometimes you have to read between the lines to make sense of them though. My gr grandparents sailed from Bremen in 1890 aboard S.S. Munchen which first docked in New York and then Baltimore where my family disembarked. My grandfather and his brother both were listed under their nicknames, not their given names so identifying them I had to rely on their parents names. Fortunately, they were the only Knopflers on board. But seeing the children's names as "Max" and "Fritz" when their given names were John and Fred was an eye opener. Have learned to always keep an open mind to alternate possibilities in researching.   By the way, Fred, I like your last name since it's so close to my maiden name!  --- On Tue, 10/2/12, kopfler@i-55.com <kopfler@i-55.com> wrote: From: kopfler@i-55.com <kopfler@i-55.com> Subject: Re: [A-L] immigration question To: alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com Date: Tuesday, October 2, 2012, 12:57 AM My greatgrandmother, Catherine Braun, was born in St. Avold and came to the U.S. on the S.S. Nuremberg, which embarked at Harve and landed in New Orleans, Louisiana, on October 29, 1860.  The passenger list indicated that she was 16 years old and her sister, Marie, was 12.  We think that they were really two or three years younger than that.  The passenger list did not indicate that they were accompanied by anyone.   Fred Kopfler On 29 Sep 2012,  gloria ishida wrote: I have been away from Alsace researching for awhile but now have found something that is perplexing. It is written in local secondary sources that my Great-great Grandmother Catherine (Catherina) Jacob arrived in the United States (Ohio) in either 1854(obituary) or 1855 (1900 US census). She was born in 1833 in Niederroedern, Alsace. Most of my records for the Jacob family and related families are fairly complete with a couple brick walls. When I still had ancestry.com subscription I could not find records that fit for her nor others available online. This record is the perplexing one. Margareth Jacob, age 21, France, arrival (no port) Jan. 13, 1854, destination USA, birth date, 1833. Germans to America Passenger Data file In baptismal and civil birth records, she has only that single name, Catherina.  But her mother's and grandmother's names were Marguerite. Could their have been confusion in the German to America file with her mother's name and hers? Her father was long deceased. To make things more confusing, I found by googling: "Bremen ship ALBERT, Remme, master ... sailed from Bremen June 20, 1854 ... arriving at Baltimore August 8, 1854. It goes on to state that National Archives (USA) ... is misfiled under January 13....More is found dated June 15 5 days before departure. the passenger arrival list, dated August 10, 1854, two days after arrival, is microfilmed on National Archives Microfilm Publication M255, roll 10, no. 66 - Germans to america, vol.8. pp 24-25. While most folks from Alsace to America sailed from Le Havre, it is not impossible, I suppose, some went to Bremen. I have no idea with whom Catherine might have been traveling with; she was only 21. Any help, hints, suggestions will be much appreciated. Gloria Ishida Japan -- Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm  ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you sooo much for your generous offer to help! This is what I know or what I think I know from the few records I have. My great grand fathers death certificate indicated the following: Eugene Sauvain Died 4/13/1886, St. Louis County Mo,48 yrs old he was Swiss and a widow. According to My grandfather (Otto Sauvain or Arthur Sevem) application for life ins. his mother Magdalena Maths died the year before in child birth. I can not find any info on her. 1900 Census My grand father appears as: Arthur Suvais born June 1880 in Missouri Said his father and mother were born in France His brother Paul was also on the record also said he was born in 1878 also born in Mo. His sister Lina married George Kasper 10/15/1889 she spelled her name Souriene born 9/15/1868 she died 6/15/1923 St Louis county Mo.place of birth is listed as France. Sister Lizzie (Elizabeth) married John Matern 11/24/1899 spelled her last name Sauvain born 3/22/1872 in Switzerland died 6/13/1942 in St. Louis mo. My grandfather Otto? married Frances Johner 8/4/1901 in St. Louis, Mo using the name Sevem he used that name the rest of his life. He always said he was born in Alsace Lorianne and came to us when he was three but I can not find any records to prove that. He had a brother Paul that I have very little info on. No marriage, or death that I could fine on a "Declaration of Intention for Citizen" on April 30, 1905 said he was a native of Germany. I found him on the 1920 census using the name Paul Sevem said he was from Germany. After that he disappears. According to census records the girls and Paul say they came to the Us either in 1881 or 1882. The girls say they were born in Switzerland, Paul, Germany, Otto France. My grandfather was orphaned at the age of 6 so he knew very little. I cannot find any immigration records for them. The dates that I gave for the marriages are the earliest records I could find. My grandfather said he lived with a family by the name of Crecelius but I can't find any evidence of this. I have searched census records, and the 1880 Agriculture census. I just don't know where else to look. I have been looking for information since I was a little kid and I just can't seem to get anywhere. Many thanks for your help. Peggie Sevem --- On Mon, 10/1/12, Brian J Densmore <brian@amason.net> wrote: > From: Brian J Densmore <brian@amason.net> > Subject: Re: [A-L] immigration question > To: alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com > Date: Monday, October 1, 2012, 10:20 AM > I live in the KC metro. Opposite side > of the state, but about 25 miles > from the regional NARA. They might have the records for St. > Louis. I also > have access to the Midwest Genealogical Library, which is > the biggest in > the Midwest. And it's big. If you send me some details I can > make a trip > or two and see what I can find. My schedule is likely to be > very busy for > a while though. It's coming up on my primary client's busy > season. Starts > about, oh, now. ;') > > Which reminds me, I have several requests outstanding, and > have to check > into new office space later today. So, I'd better run. Still > have coding > to squeeze in here somewhere. :D > > But, I'm sure I can squeeze in some research here in the > next few weeks. > Plus having a request from a co-genealogist is a handy > excuse for poor ol' > Jack to play [Sad really. Doing genealogy is now considered > my playtime]. > > Exciting as I've never really had much excuse to visit the > local NARA > branch. It's a big complex, so I hear. > > Brian > > On Sat, September 29, 2012 11:27 am, Peggie Sevem wrote: > > Brian, > > Where in the midwest do you live? I have been searching > for may > > grandfather port of entry for "forever" and have not > been able to find out > > anything. I know he endeed up in St. Louis county. I > first find him in the > > census in 1900. Any ideas would be helpful  and > appreciated his name was > > Otto Sauvain. > > Thanks, > > Peggie Sevem > > > > --- On Sat, 9/29/12, Brian J Densmore <brian@amason.net> > wrote: > > > >> From: Brian J Densmore <brian@amason.net> > >> Subject: Re: [A-L] immigration question > >> To: alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com > >> Date: Saturday, September 29, 2012, 12:55 PM > >> Personally, I've never understood > >> that. I'm sure there's some simple > >> history lesson in there for me. I would have > thought > >> Rotterdam to be the > >> natural choice of emigrants from Alsace. Hop on a > skip along > >> the Rhine and > >> ride it out to the sea. What could be easier? > >> > >> But of course, LeHavre and Bremen are about the > same > >> distance from Alsace. > >> One would probably ride the Rhine to Weisbaden, > Cologne, > >> Dusseldorf or > >> Duisberg, and then on from there to Bremen. There > are of > >> course other > >> choices. If I were Alsatian in 1850, I'd probably > prefer > >> probably the the > >> route through German speaking territory over > French. > >> Although French was > >> probably taught in some schools in Alsace then. > Still, I > >> think the road > >> from Alsace to Bremen would be an easier trek. > >> > >> If I were from Lorraine, though, probably the flip > side. But > >> these are > >> just wild guesses on my part. My grandmother's > accent was > >> very strongly > >> German sounding. Although she was a bit of a > conundrum > >> (énigme). > >> > >> Although, I suspect the passage from Le Havre might > be > >> cheaper, which > >> probably had something to do with it. I know there > was some > >> sponsorship > >> programs booking people to make the trip to America > from > >> several places in > >> Europe. The industrial boom needing cheap labor for > all > >> manner of > >> factories, apprenticeships, miners, and of course > women to > >> work for the > >> booming upper crust, and to marry the immigrant men > (some > >> seeking wives > >> from the region of their birth). > >> > >> I'm certain my gr-gr-grandfather John J Duffy had > his > >> passage paid for in > >> the 1850s so he could come to America under a > blacksmith's > >> apprenticeship > >> program. I've never been able to prove that. Though > to be > >> fair it's hard > >> doing the legwork needed from here in the Midwest. > >> > >> Lastly, it's not surprising to find mistakes in the > Germans > >> To America > >> sources. Some of that information comes from WPA > projects. > >> There are > >> always mistakes, although a very valuable project. > >> > >> > >> > >> Brian > >> > >> > >> On Sat, September 29, 2012 7:32 am, gloria ishida > wrote: > >> > I have been away from Alsace researching for > awhile but > >> now have found > >> > something that is perplexing. > >> > > >> > It is written in local secondary sources that > my > >> Great-great Grandmother > >> > Catherine (Catherina) Jacob arrived in the > United > >> States (Ohio) in either > >> > 1854(obituary) or 1855 (1900 US census). > >> > She was born in 1833 in Niederroedern, Alsace. > Most of > >> my records for the > >> > Jacob family and related families are fairly > complete > >> with a couple brick > >> > walls. > >> > > >> > When I still had ancestry.com subscription I > could not > >> find records that > >> > fit for her nor others available online. > >> > > >> > This record is the perplexing one. > >> > > >> > Margareth Jacob, age 21, France, arrival (no > port) Jan. > >> 13, 1854, > >> > destination USA, birth date, 1833. Germans to > America > >> Passenger Data file > >> > > >> > In baptismal and civil birth records, she has > only that > >> single name, > >> > Catherina.  But her mother's and > grandmother's > >> names were Marguerite. > >> > Could their have been confusion in the German > to > >> America file with her > >> > mother's name and hers? Her father was long > deceased. > >> > > >> > To make things more confusing, I found by > googling: > >> > > >> > "Bremen ship ALBERT, Remme, master ... sailed > from > >> Bremen June 20, 1854 > >> > ... arriving at Baltimore August 8, 1854. It > goes on to > >> state that > >> > National Archives (USA) ... is misfiled under > January > >> 13....More is found > >> > dated June 15 5 days before departure. the > passenger > >> arrival list, dated > >> > August 10, 1854, two days after arrival, is > microfilmed > >> on National > >> > Archives Microfilm Publication M255, roll 10, > no. 66 - > >> Germans to america, > >> > vol.8. pp 24-25. > >> > > >> > While most folks from Alsace to America sailed > from Le > >> Havre, it is not > >> > impossible, I suppose, some went to Bremen. I > have no > >> idea with whom > >> > Catherine might have been traveling with; she > was only > >> 21. > >> > > >> > Any help, hints, suggestions will be much > appreciated. > >> > > >> > > >> > Gloria Ishida > >> > Japan > >> > > >> > > >> > "Genealogy. An account of one's descent from > an > >> ancestor who did not > >> > particularly care to trace his own." Ambrose > Bierce > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: > >> > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm > >> > > >> > > >> > ------------------------------- > >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an > email to > >> > ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com > >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without > >> > the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: > >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm  > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > to > >> ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com > >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the > >> subject and the body of the message > > > > -- > > Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: > > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > -- > Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm  > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and the body of the message

I live in the KC metro. Opposite side of the state, but about 25 miles from the regional NARA. They might have the records for St. Louis. I also have access to the Midwest Genealogical Library, which is the biggest in the Midwest. And it's big. If you send me some details I can make a trip or two and see what I can find. My schedule is likely to be very busy for a while though. It's coming up on my primary client's busy season. Starts about, oh, now. ;') Which reminds me, I have several requests outstanding, and have to check into new office space later today. So, I'd better run. Still have coding to squeeze in here somewhere. :D But, I'm sure I can squeeze in some research here in the next few weeks. Plus having a request from a co-genealogist is a handy excuse for poor ol' Jack to play [Sad really. Doing genealogy is now considered my playtime]. Exciting as I've never really had much excuse to visit the local NARA branch. It's a big complex, so I hear. Brian On Sat, September 29, 2012 11:27 am, Peggie Sevem wrote: > Brian, > Where in the midwest do you live? I have been searching for may > grandfather port of entry for "forever" and have not been able to find out > anything. I know he endeed up in St. Louis county. I first find him in the > census in 1900. Any ideas would be helpful and appreciated his name was > Otto Sauvain. > Thanks, > Peggie Sevem > > --- On Sat, 9/29/12, Brian J Densmore <brian@amason.net> wrote: > >> From: Brian J Densmore <brian@amason.net> >> Subject: Re: [A-L] immigration question >> To: alsace-lorraine@rootsweb.com >> Date: Saturday, September 29, 2012, 12:55 PM >> Personally, I've never understood >> that. I'm sure there's some simple >> history lesson in there for me. I would have thought >> Rotterdam to be the >> natural choice of emigrants from Alsace. Hop on a skip along >> the Rhine and >> ride it out to the sea. What could be easier? >> >> But of course, LeHavre and Bremen are about the same >> distance from Alsace. >> One would probably ride the Rhine to Weisbaden, Cologne, >> Dusseldorf or >> Duisberg, and then on from there to Bremen. There are of >> course other >> choices. If I were Alsatian in 1850, I'd probably prefer >> probably the the >> route through German speaking territory over French. >> Although French was >> probably taught in some schools in Alsace then. Still, I >> think the road >> from Alsace to Bremen would be an easier trek. >> >> If I were from Lorraine, though, probably the flip side. But >> these are >> just wild guesses on my part. My grandmother's accent was >> very strongly >> German sounding. Although she was a bit of a conundrum >> (énigme). >> >> Although, I suspect the passage from Le Havre might be >> cheaper, which >> probably had something to do with it. I know there was some >> sponsorship >> programs booking people to make the trip to America from >> several places in >> Europe. The industrial boom needing cheap labor for all >> manner of >> factories, apprenticeships, miners, and of course women to >> work for the >> booming upper crust, and to marry the immigrant men (some >> seeking wives >> from the region of their birth). >> >> I'm certain my gr-gr-grandfather John J Duffy had his >> passage paid for in >> the 1850s so he could come to America under a blacksmith's >> apprenticeship >> program. I've never been able to prove that. Though to be >> fair it's hard >> doing the legwork needed from here in the Midwest. >> >> Lastly, it's not surprising to find mistakes in the Germans >> To America >> sources. Some of that information comes from WPA projects. >> There are >> always mistakes, although a very valuable project. >> >> >> >> Brian >> >> >> On Sat, September 29, 2012 7:32 am, gloria ishida wrote: >> > I have been away from Alsace researching for awhile but >> now have found >> > something that is perplexing. >> > >> > It is written in local secondary sources that my >> Great-great Grandmother >> > Catherine (Catherina) Jacob arrived in the United >> States (Ohio) in either >> > 1854(obituary) or 1855 (1900 US census). >> > She was born in 1833 in Niederroedern, Alsace. Most of >> my records for the >> > Jacob family and related families are fairly complete >> with a couple brick >> > walls. >> > >> > When I still had ancestry.com subscription I could not >> find records that >> > fit for her nor others available online. >> > >> > This record is the perplexing one. >> > >> > Margareth Jacob, age 21, France, arrival (no port) Jan. >> 13, 1854, >> > destination USA, birth date, 1833. Germans to America >> Passenger Data file >> > >> > In baptismal and civil birth records, she has only that >> single name, >> > Catherina.  But her mother's and grandmother's >> names were Marguerite. >> > Could their have been confusion in the German to >> America file with her >> > mother's name and hers? Her father was long deceased. >> > >> > To make things more confusing, I found by googling: >> > >> > "Bremen ship ALBERT, Remme, master ... sailed from >> Bremen June 20, 1854 >> > ... arriving at Baltimore August 8, 1854. It goes on to >> state that >> > National Archives (USA) ... is misfiled under January >> 13....More is found >> > dated June 15 5 days before departure. the passenger >> arrival list, dated >> > August 10, 1854, two days after arrival, is microfilmed >> on National >> > Archives Microfilm Publication M255, roll 10, no. 66 - >> Germans to america, >> > vol.8. pp 24-25. >> > >> > While most folks from Alsace to America sailed from Le >> Havre, it is not >> > impossible, I suppose, some went to Bremen. I have no >> idea with whom >> > Catherine might have been traveling with; she was only >> 21. >> > >> > Any help, hints, suggestions will be much appreciated. >> > >> > >> > Gloria Ishida >> > Japan >> > >> > >> > "Genealogy. An account of one's descent from an >> ancestor who did not >> > particularly care to trace his own." Ambrose Bierce >> > >> > -- >> > Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: >> > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> > >> >> >> -- >> Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: >> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm  >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the >> subject and the body of the message > > -- > Resources for Alsace-Lorraine list members: > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~valorie/Alsace-Lorraine-L.htm > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ALSACE-LORRAINE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

I have been away from Alsace researching for awhile but now have found something that is perplexing. It is written in local secondary sources that my Great-great Grandmother Catherine (Catherina) Jacob arrived in the United States (Ohio) in either 1854(obituary) or 1855 (1900 US census). She was born in 1833 in Niederroedern, Alsace. Most of my records for the Jacob family and related families are fairly complete with a couple brick walls. When I still had ancestry.com subscription I could not find records that fit for her nor others available online. This record is the perplexing one. Margareth Jacob, age 21, France, arrival (no port) Jan. 13, 1854, destination USA, birth date, 1833. Germans to America Passenger Data file In baptismal and civil birth records, she has only that single name, Catherina. But her mother's and grandmother's names were Marguerite. Could their have been confusion in the German to America file with her mother's name and hers? Her father was long deceased. To make things more confusing, I found by googling: "Bremen ship ALBERT, Remme, master ... sailed from Bremen June 20, 1854 ... arriving at Baltimore August 8, 1854. It goes on to state that National Archives (USA) ... is misfiled under January 13....More is found dated June 15 5 days before departure. the passenger arrival list, dated August 10, 1854, two days after arrival, is microfilmed on National Archives Microfilm Publication M255, roll 10, no. 66 - Germans to america, vol.8. pp 24-25. While most folks from Alsace to America sailed from Le Havre, it is not impossible, I suppose, some went to Bremen. I have no idea with whom Catherine might have been traveling with; she was only 21. Any help, hints, suggestions will be much appreciated. Gloria Ishida Japan "Genealogy. An account of one's descent from an ancestor who did not particularly care to trace his own." Ambrose Bierce

Hi Scott, A search at www.castlegarden.org for Paul BAUMANN for the time period 1862- 1913 gives 18 results, but only one is correct for the birth year 1862 : Paul BAUMANN, baker, 28 years old, arrival date 29 May 1890 from Bremen with the ship Dresden. With him : Essa (?) BAUMANN 25y and Frieda 3 months. They settled in Port Huron, St Clair, Michigan. For more see the sites: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MLTM-VG6 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MLTM-VGF https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MZ7H-979 All the best from Alsace Ewald -------------------------------------------------- From: "Scotty B." <wsb221@stny.rr.com> Sent: Friday, September 28, 2012 6:06 AM To: <ALSACE-LORRAINE@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [A-L] Immigration from Alsace to America > Hello, > Yesterdays post in this forum from Robert Behra made me think about > something which I would like to ask here. > I had a relative, Paul Auguste Napoleon Baumann who was born 8/12/1862 in > Bollwiller, France and family lore says he left Alsace for America but we > have no date or where he landed in America etc. > I would venture to guess that he left between 1880 and 1900 but I’m not > sure. Is there any way in France to definitely determine when a citizen > left France? I’m curious as to what my options are for finding him and > where he ended up. > > Thank you for an honest answer on this one. > > Scott Baumann > --