Jimmy, thanks for posting this link. Do you know if they perhaps have their archives online? :) Yes, I would like to see all the "old" records. Barbara ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jimmy Thompson" <jimthomp@sonic.net> To: <almarion@rootsweb.com>; "'Wanda Sawtelle'" <wm343@bellsouth.net> Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 10:42 AM Subject: Re: [ALMARION] Genealogical Soc. Marion Co. > Actually, they're already online. > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~almarion/mcgs.htm > > Looks as if someone has been taking care of the page. There's new things > put > on occasionally. > > It's a good webpage, but there is more work that could be done. > > -----Original Message----- > From: almarion-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:almarion-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On Behalf Of Barbara Mitchell > Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 7:21 AM > To: Wanda Sawtelle; almarion@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [ALMARION] Genealogical Soc. Marion Co. > > Wanda you certainly are on the right track. I live out of state now, but > perhaps sometime soon I could find some way to support the group. It > would > be great if someone could get this Society online? > Barbara > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Wanda Sawtelle" <wm343@bellsouth.net> > To: <almarion@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 8:39 AM > Subject: Re: [ALMARION] Genealogical Soc. Marion Co. > > >> When I started searching for my family roots, I was thrilled to learn >> there >> was such a publication as the Marion County Tracts and I found so much >> helpful information there. It looks like the Genealogical Society has >> fallen on hard times. There is a LOT of work that goes into gathering >> information, publication, etc. >> Now that we know that help is needed --- let's show our appreciation >> for >> the years of valuable service and ask what we can do to help. My >> experience >> is limited. I don't live in Marion County but am willing to offer a >> couple >> of days a month to come and help. >> Anybody else? >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Charles Clark" <tclark@midsouth.rr.com> >> To: <almarion@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 10:27 PM >> Subject: Re: [ALMARION] Genealogical Soc. Marion Co. >> >> >>>I was going to join Marion Tracks but just did not get around to it, now >>>I >>> am glad. I was there a few months ago and noticed the absence of any >>> current >>> issues at the library which is why I hesitated joining. >>> My question to Mr. Brown would be why people were not refunded the money >>> paid for something they did not receive? What were the paid dues used >>> for? >>> He could have explained, along with refund, the lack of funds to publish >>> instead of having you go to all the trouble and time just to get an >>> answer. >>> He could have also at that time asked for input or suggestions, a little >>> late at this point. >>> >>> Actually, the responsible and sensible way to handle would have been to >>> have >>> addressed and asked for help as soon as they were in need, long before >>> it >>> got to this point. >>> >>> The fact money was taken for something not provided and the apparent >>> lack >>> of >>> concern in responding to inquires in a timely manner does not say much >>> for >>> the current publishers. It is a shame since so much time and energy went >>> into starting and maintaining a valued service for Marion County. >>> >>> I would definitely have demanded a refund before now if I had >>> subscribed. >>> They can come up with all the reasons they want but nothing excuses the >>> manner in which this was handled, period. They should be ashamed of >>> themselves. >>> >>> This would be a great story for the local papers. >>> >>> Charles Clark >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Wayne and Peggy Horton" <wphor@sbcglobal.net> >>> To: <almarion@rootsweb.com> >>> Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 11:58 PM >>> Subject: Re: [ALMARION] Genealogical Soc. Marion Co. >>> >>> >>>> I, too, joined the Marion County Genealogical Society last January and >>>> the >>>> only thing I have received is my canceled check. On May 24, I wrote to >>>> inquire about the publication "Tracks" -- (see the May and June, >>>> ALMARION >>>> mailing list archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index). >>>> Several >>>> others wrote me with the same complaint -- some had belonged for 2 or 3 >>>> years and had never received a single publication from the Society. >>>> Someone sent me the name and address of the President and I wrote, >>>> asking >>>> for information. >>>> >>>> Finally on June 16 I received the following from Randy Brown: >>>> >>>> "We are attempting to catch up on our Tracks publication, but our >>>> resources are limited due to a decline in membership and the rising >>>> costs >>>> of publication. We have the Spring issue of 2005 ready, and should be >>>> mailing it soon. We may have to go to a bi-annual publication as >>>> opposed >>>> to a quarterly publication of the tracks. I apologize for the delay, >>>> we >>>> just don't have the funds necessary to continue to publish and mail. >>>> We >>>> are working on finding alternate means of funding our publication. Any >>>> suggestions or input would be appreciated. >>>> >>>> "Thank you for your patience. >>>> >>>> Randy Brown >>>> President/Editor" >>>> >>>> I don't know if anyone has received the Spring 2005 issue, but it does >>>> not take much effort to send an e-mail to the ALMARION list to keep >>>> members posted on the status of publications. To date, we have not >>>> received further notice about any publication or anything to do with >>>> the >>>> Society. The publications are the main benefit for those who join >>>> different Genealogical Societies and live too far to attend meetings. >>>> >>>> It is understandable membership is declining when those of us who live >>>> out of state are ignored -- I shall not be joining again. >>>> >>>> Peggy >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> blkcat_1969s@yahoo.com wrote: >>>> This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. >>>> >>>> http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/RS.2ADE/1320 >>>> >>>> Message Board Post: >>>> >>>> Does anyone know if this society is still in existence? I sent them a >>>> ck >>>> 08\01\06 to join for (1) yr no response , ck not returned, followed up >>>> by >>>> a SASE , 30 days later still no response. >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> ALMARION-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> ALMARION-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> -- >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.27/517 - Release Date: >>> 11/3/2006 >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ALMARION-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ALMARION-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ALMARION-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

I don't know what the restrains are for the size of each state's web site the ROOTSWEB server, but I would think that what you see is all they have ready to put online. It's not easy to put family information online these days, even if the information is a hundred years old. The only thing I have left is some photos of a few of the families in the early days of Brilliant/Boston. -----Original Message----- From: almarion-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:almarion-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Barbara Mitchell Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 8:51 AM To: almarion@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ALMARION] Genealogical Soc. Marion Co. Jimmy, thanks for posting this link. Do you know if they perhaps have their archives online? :) Yes, I would like to see all the "old" records. Barbara ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jimmy Thompson" <jimthomp@sonic.net> To: <almarion@rootsweb.com>; "'Wanda Sawtelle'" <wm343@bellsouth.net> Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 10:42 AM Subject: Re: [ALMARION] Genealogical Soc. Marion Co. > Actually, they're already online. > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~almarion/mcgs.htm > > Looks as if someone has been taking care of the page. There's new things > put > on occasionally. > > It's a good webpage, but there is more work that could be done. > > -----Original Message----- > From: almarion-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:almarion-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On Behalf Of Barbara Mitchell > Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 7:21 AM > To: Wanda Sawtelle; almarion@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [ALMARION] Genealogical Soc. Marion Co. > > Wanda you certainly are on the right track. I live out of state now, but > perhaps sometime soon I could find some way to support the group. It > would > be great if someone could get this Society online? > Barbara > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Wanda Sawtelle" <wm343@bellsouth.net> > To: <almarion@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 8:39 AM > Subject: Re: [ALMARION] Genealogical Soc. Marion Co. > > >> When I started searching for my family roots, I was thrilled to learn >> there >> was such a publication as the Marion County Tracts and I found so much >> helpful information there. It looks like the Genealogical Society has >> fallen on hard times. There is a LOT of work that goes into gathering >> information, publication, etc. >> Now that we know that help is needed --- let's show our appreciation >> for >> the years of valuable service and ask what we can do to help. My >> experience >> is limited. I don't live in Marion County but am willing to offer a >> couple >> of days a month to come and help. >> Anybody else? >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Charles Clark" <tclark@midsouth.rr.com> >> To: <almarion@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 10:27 PM >> Subject: Re: [ALMARION] Genealogical Soc. Marion Co. >> >> >>>I was going to join Marion Tracks but just did not get around to it, now >>>I >>> am glad. I was there a few months ago and noticed the absence of any >>> current >>> issues at the library which is why I hesitated joining. >>> My question to Mr. Brown would be why people were not refunded the money >>> paid for something they did not receive? What were the paid dues used >>> for? >>> He could have explained, along with refund, the lack of funds to publish >>> instead of having you go to all the trouble and time just to get an >>> answer. >>> He could have also at that time asked for input or suggestions, a little >>> late at this point. >>> >>> Actually, the responsible and sensible way to handle would have been to >>> have >>> addressed and asked for help as soon as they were in need, long before >>> it >>> got to this point. >>> >>> The fact money was taken for something not provided and the apparent >>> lack >>> of >>> concern in responding to inquires in a timely manner does not say much >>> for >>> the current publishers. It is a shame since so much time and energy went >>> into starting and maintaining a valued service for Marion County. >>> >>> I would definitely have demanded a refund before now if I had >>> subscribed. >>> They can come up with all the reasons they want but nothing excuses the >>> manner in which this was handled, period. They should be ashamed of >>> themselves. >>> >>> This would be a great story for the local papers. >>> >>> Charles Clark >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Wayne and Peggy Horton" <wphor@sbcglobal.net> >>> To: <almarion@rootsweb.com> >>> Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 11:58 PM >>> Subject: Re: [ALMARION] Genealogical Soc. Marion Co. >>> >>> >>>> I, too, joined the Marion County Genealogical Society last January and >>>> the >>>> only thing I have received is my canceled check. On May 24, I wrote to >>>> inquire about the publication "Tracks" -- (see the May and June, >>>> ALMARION >>>> mailing list archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index). >>>> Several >>>> others wrote me with the same complaint -- some had belonged for 2 or 3 >>>> years and had never received a single publication from the Society. >>>> Someone sent me the name and address of the President and I wrote, >>>> asking >>>> for information. >>>> >>>> Finally on June 16 I received the following from Randy Brown: >>>> >>>> "We are attempting to catch up on our Tracks publication, but our >>>> resources are limited due to a decline in membership and the rising >>>> costs >>>> of publication. We have the Spring issue of 2005 ready, and should be >>>> mailing it soon. We may have to go to a bi-annual publication as >>>> opposed >>>> to a quarterly publication of the tracks. I apologize for the delay, >>>> we >>>> just don't have the funds necessary to continue to publish and mail. >>>> We >>>> are working on finding alternate means of funding our publication. Any >>>> suggestions or input would be appreciated. >>>> >>>> "Thank you for your patience. >>>> >>>> Randy Brown >>>> President/Editor" >>>> >>>> I don't know if anyone has received the Spring 2005 issue, but it does >>>> not take much effort to send an e-mail to the ALMARION list to keep >>>> members posted on the status of publications. To date, we have not >>>> received further notice about any publication or anything to do with >>>> the >>>> Society. The publications are the main benefit for those who join >>>> different Genealogical Societies and live too far to attend meetings. >>>> >>>> It is understandable membership is declining when those of us who live >>>> out of state are ignored -- I shall not be joining again. >>>> >>>> Peggy >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> blkcat_1969s@yahoo.com wrote: >>>> This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. >>>> >>>> http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/RS.2ADE/1320 >>>> >>>> Message Board Post: >>>> >>>> Does anyone know if this society is still in existence? I sent them a >>>> ck >>>> 08\01\06 to join for (1) yr no response , ck not returned, followed up >>>> by >>>> a SASE , 30 days later still no response. >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> ALMARION-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> ALMARION-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> -- >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.27/517 - Release Date: >>> 11/3/2006 >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ALMARION-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ALMARION-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ALMARION-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ALMARION-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The Marion Co. Genealogical Society page is located on the USGenWeb site for Marion Co. AL. It is not a stand-alone site. The links to records on the left-hand side of the page are those available on the USGenWeb site which welcomes contributions from anyone willing to share their records and photos. Monya Fayette Co. AL list manager ASTON surname list manager MUSGROVE surname list manager THOMPSON surname list manager Researching: ANDERSON, ANDERSEN (Norway), ASTON, BISHOP, DODSON, FYLLINGSNES (Norway), GRANT, HARRIS, HOWELL, JORDAN, LESLIE, McDILL, McDONALD, MILLIGAN, MORTON, MUSGROVE, OWEN, PEDEN, SOUTH, STANFORD, THOMPSON, WEAVER and WEBSTER On Nov 5, 2006, at 12:43 PM, Jimmy Thompson wrote: > I don't know what the restrains are for the size of each state's web > site > the ROOTSWEB server, but I would think that what you see is all they > have > ready to put online. It's not easy to put family information online > these > days, even if the information is a hundred years old. The only thing I > have > left is some photos of a few of the families in the early days of > Brilliant/Boston. > > -----Original Message----- > From: almarion-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:almarion-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On Behalf Of Barbara Mitchell > Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 8:51 AM > To: almarion@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [ALMARION] Genealogical Soc. Marion Co. > > Jimmy, thanks for posting this link. Do you know if they perhaps have > their > > archives online? :) > Yes, I would like to see all the "old" records. > Barbara > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jimmy Thompson" <jimthomp@sonic.net> > To: <almarion@rootsweb.com>; "'Wanda Sawtelle'" <wm343@bellsouth.net> > Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 10:42 AM > Subject: Re: [ALMARION] Genealogical Soc. Marion Co. > > >> Actually, they're already online. >> >> http://www.rootsweb.com/~almarion/mcgs.htm >> >> Looks as if someone has been taking care of the page. There's new >> things >> put >> on occasionally. >> >> It's a good webpage, but there is more work that could be done. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: almarion-bounces@rootsweb.com >> [mailto:almarion-bounces@rootsweb.com] >> On Behalf Of Barbara Mitchell >> Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 7:21 AM >> To: Wanda Sawtelle; almarion@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [ALMARION] Genealogical Soc. Marion Co. >> >> Wanda you certainly are on the right track. I live out of state now, >> but >> perhaps sometime soon I could find some way to support the group. It >> would >> be great if someone could get this Society online? >> Barbara >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Wanda Sawtelle" <wm343@bellsouth.net> >> To: <almarion@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 8:39 AM >> Subject: Re: [ALMARION] Genealogical Soc. Marion Co. >> >> >>> When I started searching for my family roots, I was thrilled to learn >>> there >>> was such a publication as the Marion County Tracts and I found so >>> much >>> helpful information there. It looks like the Genealogical Society >>> has >>> fallen on hard times. There is a LOT of work that goes into >>> gathering >>> information, publication, etc. >>> Now that we know that help is needed --- let's show our >>> appreciation >>> for >>> the years of valuable service and ask what we can do to help. My >>> experience >>> is limited. I don't live in Marion County but am willing to offer a >>> couple >>> of days a month to come and help. >>> Anybody else? >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Charles Clark" <tclark@midsouth.rr.com> >>> To: <almarion@rootsweb.com> >>> Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 10:27 PM >>> Subject: Re: [ALMARION] Genealogical Soc. Marion Co. >>> >>> >>>> I was going to join Marion Tracks but just did not get around to >>>> it, now >>>> I >>>> am glad. I was there a few months ago and noticed the absence of any >>>> current >>>> issues at the library which is why I hesitated joining. >>>> My question to Mr. Brown would be why people were not refunded the >>>> money >>>> paid for something they did not receive? What were the paid dues >>>> used >>>> for? >>>> He could have explained, along with refund, the lack of funds to >>>> publish >>>> instead of having you go to all the trouble and time just to get an >>>> answer. >>>> He could have also at that time asked for input or suggestions, a >>>> little >>>> late at this point. >>>> >>>> Actually, the responsible and sensible way to handle would have >>>> been to >>>> have >>>> addressed and asked for help as soon as they were in need, long >>>> before >>>> it >>>> got to this point. >>>> >>>> The fact money was taken for something not provided and the apparent >>>> lack >>>> of >>>> concern in responding to inquires in a timely manner does not say >>>> much >>>> for >>>> the current publishers. It is a shame since so much time and energy >>>> went >>>> into starting and maintaining a valued service for Marion County. >>>> >>>> I would definitely have demanded a refund before now if I had >>>> subscribed. >>>> They can come up with all the reasons they want but nothing excuses >>>> the >>>> manner in which this was handled, period. They should be ashamed of >>>> themselves. >>>> >>>> This would be a great story for the local papers. >>>> >>>> Charles Clark >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Wayne and Peggy Horton" <wphor@sbcglobal.net> >>>> To: <almarion@rootsweb.com> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 11:58 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [ALMARION] Genealogical Soc. Marion Co. >>>> >>>> >>>>> I, too, joined the Marion County Genealogical Society last January >>>>> and >>>>> the >>>>> only thing I have received is my canceled check. On May 24, I >>>>> wrote to >>>>> inquire about the publication "Tracks" -- (see the May and June, >>>>> ALMARION >>>>> mailing list archives at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index). >>>>> Several >>>>> others wrote me with the same complaint -- some had belonged for 2 >>>>> or 3 >>>>> years and had never received a single publication from the Society. >>>>> Someone sent me the name and address of the President and I wrote, >>>>> asking >>>>> for information. >>>>> >>>>> Finally on June 16 I received the following from Randy Brown: >>>>> >>>>> "We are attempting to catch up on our Tracks publication, but our >>>>> resources are limited due to a decline in membership and the rising >>>>> costs >>>>> of publication. We have the Spring issue of 2005 ready, and >>>>> should be >>>>> mailing it soon. We may have to go to a bi-annual publication as >>>>> opposed >>>>> to a quarterly publication of the tracks. I apologize for the >>>>> delay, >>>>> we >>>>> just don't have the funds necessary to continue to publish and >>>>> mail. >>>>> We >>>>> are working on finding alternate means of funding our publication. >>>>> Any >>>>> suggestions or input would be appreciated. >>>>> >>>>> "Thank you for your patience. >>>>> >>>>> Randy Brown >>>>> President/Editor" >>>>> >>>>> I don't know if anyone has received the Spring 2005 issue, but it >>>>> does >>>>> not take much effort to send an e-mail to the ALMARION list to keep >>>>> members posted on the status of publications. To date, we have not >>>>> received further notice about any publication or anything to do >>>>> with >>>>> the >>>>> Society. The publications are the main benefit for those who join >>>>> different Genealogical Societies and live too far to attend >>>>> meetings. >>>>> >>>>> It is understandable membership is declining when those of us who >>>>> live >>>>> out of state are ignored -- I shall not be joining again. >>>>> >>>>> Peggy >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> blkcat_1969s@yahoo.com wrote: >>>>> This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing >>>>> list. >>>>> >>>>> http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/RS.2ADE/1320 >>>>> >>>>> Message Board Post: >>>>> >>>>> Does anyone know if this society is still in existence? I sent >>>>> them a >>>>> ck >>>>> 08\01\06 to join for (1) yr no response , ck not returned, >>>>> followed up >>>>> by >>>>> a SASE , 30 days later still no response. >>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>>> ALMARION-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>>> the >>>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> ALMARION-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >>>> the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>>> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.27/517 - Release Date: >>>> 11/3/2006 >>>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> ALMARION-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ALMARION-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ALMARION-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ALMARION-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ALMARION-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >