HI, The following is long (and complicated) but please bear with me. I'm looking for an elusive Thomas HOL(E)MAN. This particular Thomas was my great-great-grandfather. Census records tell us he was born in NC approximately 1790-1800. Before Arkansas became a state in 1836, it was Arkansas Territory. As early as 1823 there was a Thomas Holman who was a Territorial Magistrate in Arkansas. His first position was May 19, 1823 at Clarke-Warm Spring; his second term was Nov. 20, 1829, (name was spelled Holemand) at Hot Spring; and the last term was Nov. 12, 1833, also at Hot Spring. This was found in the Territorial Papers - Arkansas 1819-1825 pp. 789-874; Part Seven, "Executive Register for the Arkansas Territory," 1817-1836. It is on the internet where you can visit it at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/ar/territory.htm You may find an ancestor there too! During that same time frame in Arkansas there was another Territorial Magistrate named James HOLEMAN. His terms were Nov. 20, 1829 in Sevier-Madison (Co); Nov. 5, 1831, in Sevier; and Nov. 12, 1833, also in Sevier County. . Could these two have been brothers? Were they the two sons of the Wilkes County, NC, Thomas HOLEMAN Jr. (b: 4 Feb 1756), and his second wife Elsa (?Alsia) TUGMAN? Those brothers were Thomas (b: 1796 and James (b: 1798). See: http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=red_river_tx&id=I 286 Does anyone have ANY records for either of these two? For example, a burial location in North Carolina or elsewhere would eliminate them from my search. At this point, I'm trying to just eliminate the various Thomas Hol(e)man's who were from NC and born about the same time. This Arkansas Thomas seems to be the most logical, but so far there's absolutely no proof. Thomas Holman married (perhaps a second wife) a Levisa or Lousia whose maiden name may have been KNAPP. Census indicates she was born in KY, probably ca. 1800-1805. They could have been married in KY, NC, AR or anywhere in between. So far, I have found no early records about her. They had two sons, Joseph b: 1836, and yet another Thomas b: 1838. Thomas also owned land in Saline Co. AR, where the two sons were born. An older man was reported living with them (1830 census), but disappeared before the 1840 census. As stated earlier, Thomas was the child of Elsa TUGMAN (second wife) and Thomas Holeman, b: 1756). Thus that Thomas' oldest half-brother was a Joseph (son of his father and his first wife, Margaret SUTHERLAND). The Arkansas Thomas (b: ca 1790-1800) died in 1844 in Hot Spring Co. This Joseph was 17 years older than Thomas...Could he have been the older man listed on the 1830 census? That same year an Elizabeth HOLMAN married a James L. KNAPP, in Saline Co. AR. Don't know if she was related to the Arkansas Thomas or not. Could she have been a daughter from an earlier marriage, or a sister/niece/cousin? Notice that she married a man with the same last name that has been attributed as a maiden name for Levisa (Thomas' wife). However, there is a record on World Family Tree of a marriage June 16, 1823 in Clay County, KY between a Thomas Holeman (est. b. 1769-1801) and a Kezziah TUGMAN (est. b. 1777-1804). Wonder if she was related to Elsa TUGMAN? And could this also be Levisa/Lousia? After Thomas' death, Levisa KNAPP? HOLMAN married a John TRAMMELL Sr., living first in Hempstead Co., and later in Sevier Co., next door to Joseph and his wife Martha WRIGHT HOLMAN. (They were my great-grandparents). This Joseph later became a county judge in Sevier Co., as did one of his sons, my grandfather George W. Holman. Thus making it three generations of Holman judges in Arkansas. Wondering if any anyone on this list has researched either Thomas (b.1796) or James Hol(e)man (b. 1798) listed above? Did these boys die young, settle permanently in NC or elsewhere, or did they possibly go west as far as Arkansas as young men? There are also Federal Land Records for both Thomas and James Holman in Arkansas. Realize that there are more questions here than answers. Just need help in reasoning out some of this, and also need ideas about where to look next. Please let me know what you think. Mynda Holman McGuire