For some reason your emails are delivered four times, all the same time. You might want to look into that problem. J K Clark ---- Janet <[email protected]> wrote: > The age of 14 yrs to which you refer relating to the age when formal education may have > ceased accords with information I have about a Trust for the education of a nephew I > mentioned earlier; the actual Trust was to continue until the child was 21 yrs but its > purpose was to provide formal education, clothing, etc. I found a quote in the name of > John Knox which confirms what has been shared here > http://www.ed.ac.uk/schools-departments/education/about-us/maps-estates-history/history/part-one > Quote: "Therefore we judge it necessary that every several church have a schoolmaster > appointed, such a one as is able, at least, to teach Grammar and the Latin tongue, if the > town be of any reputation. If it be [rural] .. then must either the Reader or the Minister > there appointed take care over the children and youth of the parish, to instruct them in > their first rudiments, and especially in the Catechism ..And further, we think it > expedient that in every notable town .. there be erected a [High School] in which the > Arts, at least Logic and Rhetoric, together with the tongues, shall be read by sufficient > masters, for whom honest stipends must be appointed. ..Lastly, the great schools called > Universities shall be replenished with those apt for learning". John Knox" At first the > achievement of this aim proved difficult because of Scotland's relative poverty and the > prevailing political circumstances, despite the continuing efforts of the Kirk. However, > in 1696 the Scottish Parliament passed its 'Act for Setting Schools', whereby every parish > not already equipped with a school was required to establish a schoolhouse and to provide > for a schoolmaster. End Quote. It was the thought that a cross on a certificate might not > have been an indication of illiteracy or being unable to sign one's name that piqued my > interest when I started this thread. I would not have blamed any one speaking Gaelic to > feel just a tad put out at having to sign their name in English after 1855. > The year 1944 was when formal education became compulsory by Statute along with the birth > of our National Health Service. > I found what looks to be an informative site "Transforming lives through Learning" which > includes "The Making of industrial and urban Scotland" (Modern) looks very comprehensive > about the people of Scotland. Under Education > http://www.educationscotland.gov.uk/scotlandshistory/makingindustrialurban/education/index.asp > just one link alongside a whole lot more. The Scots were prominent in the Empire borne > out by their education. > > Janet > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[email protected]> > To: "Ronald and Laura" <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2013 5:59 AM > Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] Language & Literacy in Scotland and the Gaeliclanguage > > > >I had checked my father's school records from Old > > Aberdeen earlier today as the abbrevation sounded > > familiar. He was the top student of his year when > > he graduated, and all through school all but one > > of his courses were marked "sup." for superior. > > HIs penmanship, however, was consistently "comt" > > (and I think that was generous -- "chicken > > scratches" would have been more apt :-) .) As > > others have mentioned, handwriting by even the > > working classes was often a thing of beauty. My > > father's father attended school in Old Deer until > > he was fourteen, and his letters home from the > > trenches of WW1 as an ordinary Private are models > > of copperplate penmanship. My father (b 1905) > > attended university and was an engineer, clever > > with his hands, so I don't know why his writing > > was so awful. > > > > Further to comments about the reputed superiority > > of Scottish education in the late 19th and early > > 20th centuries, my paternal grandparents had > > emigrated to Canada c1900 and my father and his > > two younger brothers were born here. When my > > father was coming up to school age, however, his > > parents packed up the family and returned to > > Aberdeen, where they were convinced their bright > > oldest son would receive a better education. I > > don't know if it was true or not, but that was > > their conviction. Certainly, looking at his yearly > > report cards, the subjects he studied in school > > were more difficult (Trigonometry, > > Latin/Greek/Hebrew -- and this was in an ordinary > > city-run school, not a "private" grammar school) > > and begun at a younger age than what my > > Scottish-born mother was studying in Canadian > > schools at the same time, from c1910-1922. > > > > Margaret Gibbs > > > > > > > > > > > > On 06/09/2013 5:49 PM, Ronald and Laura wrote: > >> I wonder if it means competent and competent small might mean a small understanding of > >> reading / writing... > >> > >> > >> > >>> ________________________________ > >>> From: B&A Smith <[email protected]> > >>> To: [email protected] > >>> Sent: Friday, September 6, 2013 3:03 AM > >>> Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] Language & Literacy in Scotland and the Gaelic language > >>> > >>> > >>> 'Compt' seems likely to be an abbreviation for 'communicant', hence the > >>> Episcopalians and Baptists being noted separately. It's unclear what the > >>> meaning of 'compt small' might be. > >>> > >>> Alison > >>> > >>> On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 4:56 AM, Gaye Ruru <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Hello Listers, > >>>> > >>>> Have been following this thread with interest. Not directly to do with > >>>> Aberdeenshire [where my YOUNGSON line is from] but in my Perthshire FORBES > >>>> line my great grandfather who emigrated to New Zealand in 1861 was > >>>> definitely a fluent Gaelic speaker, and his brother, the Rev Daniel FORBES, > >>>> Minister in the Free Church of Scotland in Edderton, Rosshire, travelled > >>>> as far as London preaching in Gaelic during the right up until shortly > >>>> before his death in May 1900. > >>>> > >>>> Also I have copied of the1806-7 and 1820-21 Census compiled by the > >>>> Minister of Moulin Parish in Perthshire. In the 1806-7 Census parishioners > >>>> are judged as "Good, Indifferent, or None' as to their knowledge of the > >>>> bible and in the 1820-21 Census there are two headings, e.g. Comt - which I > >>>> understand is something to do with their knowledge of the bible again, with > >>>> most adults having "Comt', or 'comt small' or 'Episcopalian' or 'Baptist' > >>>> or no entry at all in that column and under a second column, 'Read or ?' it > >>>> identifies if they 'can't read' with all other adults being able to > >>>> 'read'[whatever that means at that time]. It is interesting to note that > >>>> some of the few who are noted as 'can't read' are also noted as 'comt' i.e. > >>>> have knowledge of the bible but can't read. > >>>> > >>>> As a general comment I would also say that standards of literacy and > >>>> schooling appear to have been better in Scotland than that of my English > >>>> ancestors of the same period and all my ancestors who signed with their > >>>> 'mark' have been English - but that may well be completely incidental to > >>>> this discussion. > >>>> > >>>> Gaye in New Zealand > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ------------------------------- > >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > >>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > >>> message > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > >> message > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with > > the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
not having that problem here in Canada.....all is Ok..........Goldie -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2013 5:32 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] Language & Literacy in Scotland and the Gaeliclanguage For some reason your emails are delivered four times, all the same time. You might want to look into that problem. J K Clark ---- Janet <[email protected]> wrote: > The age of 14 yrs to which you refer relating to the age when formal > education may have > ceased accords with information I have about a Trust for the education of > a nephew I > mentioned earlier; the actual Trust was to continue until the child was > 21 yrs but its > purpose was to provide formal education, clothing, etc. I found a quote > in the name of > John Knox which confirms what has been shared here > http://www.ed.ac.uk/schools-departments/education/about-us/maps-estates-history/history/part-one > Quote: "Therefore we judge it necessary that every several church have a > schoolmaster > appointed, such a one as is able, at least, to teach Grammar and the Latin > tongue, if the > town be of any reputation. If it be [rural] .. then must either the Reader > or the Minister > there appointed take care over the children and youth of the parish, to > instruct them in > their first rudiments, and especially in the Catechism ..And further, we > think it > expedient that in every notable town .. there be erected a [High School] > in which the > Arts, at least Logic and Rhetoric, together with the tongues, shall be > read by sufficient > masters, for whom honest stipends must be appointed. ..Lastly, the great > schools called > Universities shall be replenished with those apt for learning". John Knox" > At first the > achievement of this aim proved difficult because of Scotland's relative > poverty and the > prevailing political circumstances, despite the continuing efforts of the > Kirk. However, > in 1696 the Scottish Parliament passed its 'Act for Setting Schools', > whereby every parish > not already equipped with a school was required to establish a schoolhouse > and to provide > for a schoolmaster. End Quote. It was the thought that a cross on a > certificate might not > have been an indication of illiteracy or being unable to sign one's name > that piqued my > interest when I started this thread. I would not have blamed any one > speaking Gaelic to > feel just a tad put out at having to sign their name in English after > 1855. > The year 1944 was when formal education became compulsory by Statute along > with the birth > of our National Health Service. > I found what looks to be an informative site "Transforming lives through > Learning" which > includes "The Making of industrial and urban Scotland" (Modern) looks very > comprehensive > about the people of Scotland. Under Education > http://www.educationscotland.gov.uk/scotlandshistory/makingindustrialurban/education/index.asp > just one link alongside a whole lot more. The Scots were prominent in the > Empire borne > out by their education. > > Janet > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[email protected]> > To: "Ronald and Laura" <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2013 5:59 AM > Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] Language & Literacy in Scotland and the > Gaeliclanguage > > > >I had checked my father's school records from Old > > Aberdeen earlier today as the abbrevation sounded > > familiar. He was the top student of his year when > > he graduated, and all through school all but one > > of his courses were marked "sup." for superior. > > HIs penmanship, however, was consistently "comt" > > (and I think that was generous -- "chicken > > scratches" would have been more apt :-) .) As > > others have mentioned, handwriting by even the > > working classes was often a thing of beauty. My > > father's father attended school in Old Deer until > > he was fourteen, and his letters home from the > > trenches of WW1 as an ordinary Private are models > > of copperplate penmanship. My father (b 1905) > > attended university and was an engineer, clever > > with his hands, so I don't know why his writing > > was so awful. > > > > Further to comments about the reputed superiority > > of Scottish education in the late 19th and early > > 20th centuries, my paternal grandparents had > > emigrated to Canada c1900 and my father and his > > two younger brothers were born here. When my > > father was coming up to school age, however, his > > parents packed up the family and returned to > > Aberdeen, where they were convinced their bright > > oldest son would receive a better education. I > > don't know if it was true or not, but that was > > their conviction. Certainly, looking at his yearly > > report cards, the subjects he studied in school > > were more difficult (Trigonometry, > > Latin/Greek/Hebrew -- and this was in an ordinary > > city-run school, not a "private" grammar school) > > and begun at a younger age than what my > > Scottish-born mother was studying in Canadian > > schools at the same time, from c1910-1922. > > > > Margaret Gibbs > > > > > > > > > > > > On 06/09/2013 5:49 PM, Ronald and Laura wrote: > >> I wonder if it means competent and competent small might mean a small > >> understanding of > >> reading / writing... > >> > >> > >> > >>> ________________________________ > >>> From: B&A Smith <[email protected]> > >>> To: [email protected] > >>> Sent: Friday, September 6, 2013 3:03 AM > >>> Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] Language & Literacy in Scotland and the Gaelic > >>> language > >>> > >>> > >>> 'Compt' seems likely to be an abbreviation for 'communicant', hence > >>> the > >>> Episcopalians and Baptists being noted separately. It's unclear what > >>> the > >>> meaning of 'compt small' might be. > >>> > >>> Alison > >>> > >>> On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 4:56 AM, Gaye Ruru <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Hello Listers, > >>>> > >>>> Have been following this thread with interest. Not directly to do > >>>> with > >>>> Aberdeenshire [where my YOUNGSON line is from] but in my Perthshire > >>>> FORBES > >>>> line my great grandfather who emigrated to New Zealand in 1861 was > >>>> definitely a fluent Gaelic speaker, and his brother, the Rev Daniel > >>>> FORBES, > >>>> Minister in the Free Church of Scotland in Edderton, Rosshire, > >>>> travelled > >>>> as far as London preaching in Gaelic during the right up until > >>>> shortly > >>>> before his death in May 1900. > >>>> > >>>> Also I have copied of the1806-7 and 1820-21 Census compiled by the > >>>> Minister of Moulin Parish in Perthshire. In the 1806-7 Census > >>>> parishioners > >>>> are judged as "Good, Indifferent, or None' as to their knowledge of > >>>> the > >>>> bible and in the 1820-21 Census there are two headings, e.g. Comt - > >>>> which I > >>>> understand is something to do with their knowledge of the bible > >>>> again, with > >>>> most adults having "Comt', or 'comt small' or 'Episcopalian' or > >>>> 'Baptist' > >>>> or no entry at all in that column and under a second column, 'Read or > >>>> ?' it > >>>> identifies if they 'can't read' with all other adults being able to > >>>> 'read'[whatever that means at that time]. It is interesting to note > >>>> that > >>>> some of the few who are noted as 'can't read' are also noted as > >>>> 'comt' i.e. > >>>> have knowledge of the bible but can't read. > >>>> > >>>> As a general comment I would also say that standards of literacy and > >>>> schooling appear to have been better in Scotland than that of my > >>>> English > >>>> ancestors of the same period and all my ancestors who signed with > >>>> their > >>>> 'mark' have been English - but that may well be completely incidental > >>>> to > >>>> this discussion. > >>>> > >>>> Gaye in New Zealand > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ------------------------------- > >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>> [email protected] > >>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the > >>> body of the > >>> message > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> [email protected] > >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the > >> body of the > >> message > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with > > the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of > > the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
No problem in my part of Canada either. I just get one copy of Janet's messages. Margaret Gibbs On 07/09/2013 5:44 PM, Goldie & Lido Doratti wrote: > not having that problem here in Canada.....all > is Ok..........Goldie > > -----Original Message----- From: > [email protected] Sent: Saturday, September > 07, 2013 5:32 PM To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] Language & Literacy in > Scotland and the Gaeliclanguage > > For some reason your emails are delivered four > times, all the same time. You might want to > look into that problem. > > J K Clark ---- Janet <[email protected]> > wrote: >> The age of 14 yrs to which you refer relating >> to the age when formal education may have >> ceased accords with information I have about >> a Trust for the education of a nephew I >> mentioned earlier