I follow what you are saying about there being a male name "Christian" but isnt that late 19th century onward. I just wonder; those who know about variations in name giving, and my, dont we find some in names given to children nowadays, would we not leave the gender part of the search without selection?. I usually do, so it allows all results which are mostly sorted correctly gender-wise. Of course we have to use our eyes and not let the modern brain lead the way. Janet ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2013 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] Variations on the forename: "Christian" > While I have the same pronunciation preference as > Venita, the problem that can raise for family > history researchers is that in England (and other > countries) "Christian" is a male forename, and if > you check off Female on some forms while searching > for a Scottish ancestress by that name, you get > back "0 results". But then try for a census record > using the name of someone else in her family, and > there little "Kursteen" (as one record had it) is, > as a daughter of the family. My paternal > Aberdonian grandparents and relatives all > pronounced the personal name "Christian" as > something close to the Scandinavian "Kirsten", > hence the abbreviated common pet-name Kirstie. > However, they pronounced the adjective referring > to the religion as "Kristin" (and my maternal > Borders relatives pronounced the personal name > also as "Kristin"). I remember as a small child > finding this fascinating, which probably helped to > nudge me eventually towards my academic career in > historical and comparative onomastics -- I even > managed to work my gt-gt-grandmother > Christian-et-al into the oral defence of my PhD > thesis on Scottish names. (Probably startled the > lady into a quick spin in her grave: "What? Did > the lassie just take my name in vain? What on > earth is the bairn talking about?" :-) ) > > Margaret Gibbs > > > On 03/10/2013 10:44 AM, Venita wrote: >> My grandfather, who was half Scottish and half English, had a sister named Christian. >> My grandmother always pronounced her name Christie-ann, but many in the family called >> her "Christy" and spelled her name Christine or Christina. I vote for the original >> spelling and pronunciation! >> >> Venita >> >> >> >>> On 2 October 2013 16:54, Margaret Gibbs <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> And there are other nicknames for Christian, which is what appears on my >>>> gt-gt-grandmother's christening record. I was just listing the variants I'd >>>> found for her in her christening, marriage, census, and death records. Her >>>> husband registered her death as "Christina", although my grandfather said >>>> he never heard him call his wife anything but "Kirsty" -- or "my love" -- >>>> and on her marriage certificate she signed her name quite clearly as >>>> "Christianna". The family joke was that she decided to "frilly up" her name >>>> to match her wedding gown :-) . >>>> >>>> Margaret Gibbs >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] >>>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >>>> message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >> message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with > the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I should have added that I now leave the gender question on forms blank, or choose "Both" if that's offered. I was thinking of new researchers who have yet to learn the tricks and who might give up, thinking that great-granny isn't recorded anywhere. And researchers of the future will indeed, as Janet says, have to learn that trick quickly with the large number of formerly masculine names now being used for both -- although they then tend to become gradually thought of as girls' names and the process starts over with different ones, and a trend to use formerly girls' names for boys is never, historically, as common. Incidentally, the name Christian was used in the British Isles for both boy and girl babies from c1200 on (or at least, first appearing in records around that date). It was never one of the heavily used names like Elizabeth, Ann, Mary, Margaret or Jane for girls, for example, but it hung in there for centuries, originally in honour of various saints named Christian or Christianus. However, the modest surge in popularity and the division into a distinctly male and female form happened in England with the publication of Bunyan's "Pilgrim's Progress" in 1678 (Part I) and 1684 (Part II), the two parts being about the religious pilgrimages of the husband and wife Christian and Christiana. Interestingly (well, I think it's interesting, but then I tend to go riding off on my hobbyhorse when names are discussed), in Scotland and Ireland the majority of "Christians" (the basic name, setting aside the variants) were girls, while more often the pet-name "Christie" was used as a formally given name for boys, leading to the use of that as a surname. Margaret Gibbs whose father wanted to name her Marilyn because "Margaret is so common in Scotland" (being the most-used name for girls there for centuries thanks to Saint/Queen Margaret), but who is grateful her mother's wishes won out because the name is woven so tightly into the fabric of the country and binds me to so many, many ancestresses On 03/10/2013 1:33 PM, Janet wrote: > I follow what you are saying about there being a male name "Christian" but isnt that late > 19th century onward. > I just wonder; those who know about variations in name giving, and my, dont we find some > in names given to children nowadays, > would we not leave the gender part of the search without selection?. I usually do, so it > allows all results which are mostly > sorted correctly gender-wise. Of course we have to use our eyes and not let the modern > brain lead the way. > > Janet > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From:<[email protected]> > To:<[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2013 7:57 PM > Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] Variations on the forename: "Christian" > > >> While I have the same pronunciation preference as >> Venita, the problem that can raise for family >> history researchers is that in England (and other >> countries) "Christian" is a male forename, and if >> you check off Female on some forms while searching >> for a Scottish ancestress by that name, you get >> back "0 results". But then try for a census record >> using the name of someone else in her family, and >> there little "Kursteen" (as one record had it) is, >> as a daughter of the family. My paternal >> Aberdonian grandparents and relatives all >> pronounced the personal name "Christian" as >> something close to the Scandinavian "Kirsten", >> hence the abbreviated common pet-name Kirstie. >> However, they pronounced the adjective referring >> to the religion as "Kristin" (and my maternal >> Borders relatives pronounced the personal name >> also as "Kristin"). I remember as a small child >> finding this fascinating, which probably helped to >> nudge me eventually towards my academic career in >> historical and comparative onomastics -- I even >> managed to work my gt-gt-grandmother >> Christian-et-al into the oral defence of my PhD >> thesis on Scottish names. (Probably startled the >> lady into a quick spin in her grave: "What? Did >> the lassie just take my name in vain? What on >> earth is the bairn talking about?" :-) ) >> >> Margaret Gibbs >> >> >> On 03/10/2013 10:44 AM, Venita wrote: >>> My grandfather, who was half Scottish and half English, had a sister named Christian. >>> My grandmother always pronounced her name Christie-ann, but many in the family called >>> her "Christy" and spelled her name Christine or Christina. I vote for the original >>> spelling and pronunciation! >>> >>> Venita >>> >>> >>> >>>> On 2 October 2013 16:54, Margaret Gibbs<[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> And there are other nicknames for Christian, which is what appears on my >>>>> gt-gt-grandmother's christening record. I was just listing the variants I'd >>>>> found for her in her christening, marriage, census, and death records. Her >>>>> husband registered her death as "Christina", although my grandfather said >>>>> he never heard him call his wife anything but "Kirsty" -- or "my love" -- >>>>> and on her marriage certificate she signed her name quite clearly as >>>>> "Christianna". The family joke was that she decided to "frilly up" her name >>>>> to match her wedding gown :-) . >>>>> >>>>> Margaret Gibbs >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email [email protected] >>>>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >>>>> message >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email [email protected] >>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >>> message >>> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email [email protected] with >> the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >