bj.davidson wrote: >... I have managed to trace back via a line of William Davidson, all farm workers, to a George Davidson of Buchanhaven, Peterhead listed in the 1841 census as aged 40, occupation Sp. dist.(which I take to be Spirits Distributor.) > Or possibly "spirits distiller" - I'm not sure the term "distributor" (in the sense of "seller") was in use at that date. >From family birth certificate records I know he married a Margaret Smart on 23-03-1826, both from Peterhead, and that he gave his occupation as 'vintner'. I grew up in N.E. Scotland from the 1940s to the 1960s and I cannot recall ever coming across 'vintner' as an occupation. Obviously, I know it means wine merchant today, but my questions are:- >a) what exactly was a 'vintner' back then? > > I think it meant much the same then as it does today - a dealer in alcoholic beverages. In older Scottish sources, it also occurs as "ventoner". This might have meant that he in effect ran an "off-licence", or perhaps that he kept a pub. It is not so long ago that landlords of pubs in Scotland were in the habit of proclaiming themselves as "retailers of wines and spirits". >b) how common was it as an occupation? > > Probably commoner than nowadays. Few of the people involved in the sale of alcohol nowadays would be liable to call themselves "vintners" or "sprit dealers", being for the most part short-term and/or part-time employees of major companies, but in the early 1800s, each pub or gin-shop was probably run by the owner. Not a few of the Ministers who contributed to the "New Statistical Account" published in the 1840s complained about the number of hostelries in their parish, and it was fairly easy to set yourself up as a vintner/spirit dealer as there were no licensing laws - if you had a little capital, and there was enough demand in the neighbourhood, you could open tomorrow. The Excise laws governing production of distilled liquor (ie whisky) had famously been relaxed a few years previously, and I imagine that keeping a pub might then have been a favoured occupation among people who had retired from more strenuous professions, or for widows, or wives with husbands away at sea. The 1851 Census of Peterhead gives a total population a little over 9,000. Of these, there are 8 who call themsleves "vintner", 4 "spirit dealers", and a further 10 who are "innkeepers" or similar, and I suspect there was a fair degree of overlap between these nominally different occupations. There were also 20 or so "merchants" - what we would nowadays call shopkeepers - some at least of whom might also have been "vintners" to the extent that they sold wines and/or spirits. >c) is it likely to have passed from father to son? > > It might have been passed on from a father to *one* of his sons (or more likely daughters - in the "alcohol-related" professions in Peterhead in 1851 there are twice as many women as men) but at a date when most families were large, it would clearly not be possible for a father to set up all of his offspring in the licensed trade. > I have traced a Charles Davidson who had a son,George, by his wife Jean Farquhar, in 1801 and who also gives his occupation as 'vintner' but the location is Inverurie. In the absence of any other George Davidson born around 1800 in the locality of Peterhead, how confident can I be that I am making the correct link to the birth of George Davidson > Well less than 100%. The coincidence of names and profession is suggestive, but I would say it was no more than that. And I have to say that "... the absence of any other George Davidson ..." is not significant. It is an unfortunate but well-documented fact that before 1855 many births/baptisms were simply not registered. >and is there any other means by which I can confirm it? > > Can you locate George in the 1851 Census? That ought to give you his parish of birth. And if he died in or after 1855, his entry in the Register of Deaths should name his parents (assuming, of course, that whoever reported the death knew his parentage). Gavin Bell

Interesting coincidence on different lists. Both Gavin and I said that licensing wasn't around at the date of the original query [1841]. However on an Irish List Dennis Ahern has been copying the Assize records for County Cork in 1822. On the list of sentences is a relevant charge: "Timothy TOOMY, passing with unlicensed spirits, to be imprisoned one month, and pay a fine of 10 [pounds]." As Ireland was subject to London's laws at the time, maybe there actually were licensing laws in operation in Britain then. Not an important point but interesting. Do you know, Janet? -- Best wishes Ray ********************************************************** >From Ray Hennessy Forenames website: www.whatsinaname.net Preferred Email address: ray@whatsinaname.net Hints for Scotland's People at http://bit.ly/WIAN-SCP **********************************************************