For me, it builds a picture of how things changed after my grandparents took their children to Canada in 1922. I'd read that the waste land east of King Street to the beach was built over after WW2, but it may have been a bit earlier. That would explain why the homes and tenements you saw were new in the 1940s. In my father's day, earlier in the century, School Road ran only between King at the east end and ended at Dunbar on the west end, nearish to the cathedral. The old part of the street is still there, I'm told, but its name was changed and the name School Road was used for the new part where your great-grandmother lived. Gavin Bell mentioned several large buildings on the old School Road and I'm wondering if they may have had something to do with the army? My grandfather was in the Gordons already when WW1 started. No one in their family ever mentioned #6, where they lived, as army married quarters instead of a one-family house, but I suppose it's possible? The photos I have show only a doorway front or back with my father standing in it looking self-conscious. They were taken to send to my grandfather during the war, showing my father wearing his first pair of long pants in 1917 at the age of 12. Margaret Gibbs On 25/11/2013 4:24 PM, John Fidler wrote: > Hello, I used to visit Aberdeen often as a child from Dundee in the 1940s. I spent a lot of time at my Great Grandmother's house on School Road Perhaps my memories from that time might be helpful. > Some random stream-of-conciousness then:- > School road ran East-West and ended near the beach on the East. There used to be a wood and metal mesh fence, quite high, with a pedestrian opening we went through to get to the beach. Starting at the fence and heading West there were quite a number of small tenements on the left (South). My Great Grandmother lived there. > The tenements were quite modern - probably built in the 1930s or 40s. There was a whole development of similar houses. I think they are still there. On the right (North) side there are now blocks of retirees flats. Traveling farther West there were bungalows on the right as School Road neared King Street. I don't remember if the tenements extended all the way to King Street. > The King Street junction now has a roundabout, but at the time I remember the King Street trams went straight over, out to the Don. At the junction there were (and are) shops on both sides to the North. I don't remember what was on the South side. > We never went West beyond the junction so I can't speak for what might have been there. However, there were no schools or official buildings that I can remember on the stretch of road I described. > Hope someone finds this useful! > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gavin Bell" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 10:53:54 AM > Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] Aberdeen street numbers > > On 25/11/2013 17:27, [email protected] wrote: >> I found that the house in which my father lived as >> a child between 1912-1922, No. 6 School Road in >> Old Aberdeen, appears to have vanished. According >> to maps of the time, School Road ran from Dunbar >> east to King Street, and from King Street to the >> shore was open ground on which the local children >> played, according to him. After WW2, that open >> area was built over, and School Road was extended >> east of King Street. Meanwhile, St Machar Drive >> was built across the front of the church (or so it >> appears on maps -- I've never actually been to >> Aberdeen myself) > > No. St Machar Drive lies 200-300 yards to the south of St Machar's > Cathedral. You can't see the one from the other. St Machar's Drive > does go close behind the 18th-Century Old Aberdeen Town House. > > >> and the name of the new street >> was extended to the original School Road as far as >> King Street. A cousin visiting the city from >> Canada investigated for me while making a tourist >> trip to the church, but said where she assumed #6 >> School Road, now #? St Machar Drive, would have >> been was now a bank and parking lot, and took a >> photo of same. As I have two photos of my father >> as a boy in front of and behind their house, it >> doesn't look as if the old structure was reused >> for the bank building. > The earliest accurate map that I can find which shows part of this area > is the 1866-67 Ordnance Survey large-scale map, which includes the Old > Aberdeen Town House and streets immediately adjacent. At this date, the > line of School Road is labelled "New Street", and shows just 3 buildings > on the south side of the road: "Bell's School", "Grammar School" and > "School". There are no buidings on the north side. > > The next detailed map I can find is an Ordnance Survey 6" sheet > unhelpfully dated "1892-1905". It shows "School Road" running as far as > King Street but with just the same 3 buildings (although they are not > named). Next up is a "Plan of the City of Aberdeen revised up to date" > of 1916. This shows no significant change to the buildings on the street. > > The next plan I have (provisionally dated 1938) shows St Machar Drive, > but not in sufficient detail to tell what buildings there were. > > Until 1955, I lived no great distance from School Road, but cannot > recollect what buildings there were other than a block of shops (still > standing) on the NW corner of the junction with King Street, and to the > west of that, a number of small bungalows (also still standing). I > cannot recall what (if anything) lay on the south side of School Road. > A large tower block was built (1960s?) on the SW corner of the King > Street junction. This initially housed the School of Agriculture, and > now contains other departments of Aberdeen University. > > > Gavin Bell > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I really appreciated that link, Alexander! I've heard of Google Streetview, but never knew where to find it on the internet. That looks like the photo my cousin sent me of the bank she found, and judging by the map, she was at the wrong end of the street, the new part that was built after my family left for Canada in 1922. My father, uncle and grandmother all told me their house was "at the end near the Cathedral" (which they attended). I clicked on the Photos Nearby, and the houses looked just like the one in the family pictures I have -- but then, probably most houses all over the city looked like that a hundred years ago. The 1905 Post Office map I have showed a north-south (approximately) street named Dunbar, which was a joke my father used to buy a house for our family in Vancouver on a street with the same name. I don't see it on the Google map -- I thought it might be what they show as Don Street, but it's further from the church than the Dunbar Street in the 1905 map. I'll probably never know, but I enjoyed seeing the area now anyway. The school my father and uncles attended was near their home, and during WW1 he told me that after school, the boys would run across the open fields on the east side of King Street (now all built up, of course) to the shore, and stand there with slingshots, cudgels, and other deadly weapons :-) in case the Germans tried to land. They all had family members, such as my grandfather, in the Gordons, and were determined to do their bit just like their fathers, uncles, and older brothers. They occasionally saw balloons at a distance over the sea, and were all set to shoot them down with rocks, but my father said they were most likely just British weather balloons. Margaret Gibbs On 25/11/2013 2:34 PM, Alexander Bisset wrote: > Hi Bethany > Have you ever tried using Google's Streetview to see the area for yourself? > eg: this is the streetview for the Lloyds TSB branch on the corner of School Road today.http://goo.gl/maps/w1CrB > Hope this helps and gives you ideas to others about viewing how places their ancestors lived look today from the comfort of your own armchair. > >> Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2013 09:27:51 -0800 >> From:[email protected] >> To:[email protected] >> Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] Aberdeen street numbers >> >> I found that the house in which my father lived as >> a child between 1912-1922, No. 6 School Road in >> Old Aberdeen, appears to have vanished. According >> to maps of the time, School Road ran from Dunbar >> east to King Street, and from King Street to the >> shore was open ground on which the local children >> played, according to him. After WW2, that open >> area was built over, and School Road was extended >> east of King Street. Meanwhile, St Machar Drive >> was built across the front of the church (or so it >> appears on maps -- I've never actually been to >> Aberdeen myself) and the name of the new street >> was extended to the original School Road as far as >> King Street. A cousin visiting the city from >> Canada investigated for me while making a tourist >> trip to the church, but said where she assumed #6 >> School Road, now #? St Machar Drive, would have >> been was now a bank and parking lot, and took a >> photo of same. As I have two photos of my father >> as a boy in front of and behind their house, it >> doesn't look as if the old structure was reused >> for the bank building. >> >> His maternal grandparents lived in Charles Street >> at that time, around the years of WW1, but my >> understanding is that that street was heavily >> bombed in WW2 and either was rebuilt or paved over >> for a new wider street. My cousin didn't have time >> to go there and see, and relied on what her tour >> guide told her when she asked about the street. >> >> Margaret Gibbs >> >> >> >> On 25/11/2013 6:39 AM, Gavin Bell wrote: >>> On 25/11/2013 00:34, Malcolm Ward wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I wonder if anyone can tell me if street numbers in Aberdeen have changed >>>> since, say, the 1860s? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I have looked in the PO Directories and maps of the time and as far as I can >>>> tell, 31 Albyn Place in 1865 is the same building as now. But I have a >>>> bunch of other addresses, including on Union Street. So do I need to check >>>> each one off, or can I rely on all the old numbers being the same (except >>>> for maybe splits in allotments I guess)? >>> It might be safer not to make assumptions. Some street numbers may well >>> have changed, and I know for a fact that some street names have. I >>> can't say for certain whether there were any re-arrangements of existing >>> numbers on Union Street, but when it was first laid out, the name >>> applied only as far west as Union Bridge - beyond that was Union Street >>> West, and west of today's Summer Street it became Union Place. >>> >>> >>> Gavin Bell >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

On 25/11/2013 00:34, Malcolm Ward wrote: > > > I wonder if anyone can tell me if street numbers in Aberdeen have changed > since, say, the 1860s? > > > > I have looked in the PO Directories and maps of the time and as far as I can > tell, 31 Albyn Place in 1865 is the same building as now. But I have a > bunch of other addresses, including on Union Street. So do I need to check > each one off, or can I rely on all the old numbers being the same (except > for maybe splits in allotments I guess)? It might be safer not to make assumptions. Some street numbers may well have changed, and I know for a fact that some street names have. I can't say for certain whether there were any re-arrangements of existing numbers on Union Street, but when it was first laid out, the name applied only as far west as Union Bridge - beyond that was Union Street West, and west of today's Summer Street it became Union Place. Gavin Bell

Ray, and any one else at the end of a trail, whilst it may not apply here, if your family are landed it is worth looking for a Will. If they do own land you could check out this site http://www.thepeerage.com/ to start with. Maybe you have. There is one DALGARNO there but source is not known. You may find, as I did that names change and appear to be closely related. Suddenly I found children of a seemingly unrelated family changed their family or surname. The cause of it was that one Charles Wedderburn was succeeded by his nephew David Graham who died unmarried and was followed by his brother John, on the death of whom was also unmarried. The Trust wording provided that "whom failing on the heirs male and female of the substitutes in the entail of succession, the heir in possession to bear the surname and arms of Wedderburn of Pearsie and none other. .................the estate went to Katharine Stormonth (wife of the Rev. James Maclagan, and daughter of Alexander Stormonth of Kinclune) who thereupon assumed the name" By that time Katharine was a widow with children of her marriage and I could easily have overlooked what appeared to be coincidentally duplicate children with similar identities. Janet ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Hennessy" <[email protected]> To: "Aberdeen List" <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 12:19 AM Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] DALGARNO > Thanks laura > > It was a forlorn hope as the DALGARNO/DALGARDNO/DALGARDEN lines are very > numerous but not too well documented so I have little hope at the moment of > finding my way past 1803/4 [approx] > > Don't worry about delays - they are quite common in this research. We have > a 6 month hiatus in our MELDRUM researches at the moment and Sheena's fifth > cousin is getting a bit impatient! --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com

Hi List I wonder if anyone can tell me if street numbers in Aberdeen have changed since, say, the 1860s? I have looked in the PO Directories and maps of the time and as far as I can tell, 31 Albyn Place in 1865 is the same building as now. But I have a bunch of other addresses, including on Union Street. So do I need to check each one off, or can I rely on all the old numbers being the same (except for maybe splits in allotments I guess)? Thanks Malcolm Ward Orford, Tasmania

I found that the house in which my father lived as a child between 1912-1922, No. 6 School Road in Old Aberdeen, appears to have vanished. According to maps of the time, School Road ran from Dunbar east to King Street, and from King Street to the shore was open ground on which the local children played, according to him. After WW2, that open area was built over, and School Road was extended east of King Street. Meanwhile, St Machar Drive was built across the front of the church (or so it appears on maps -- I've never actually been to Aberdeen myself) and the name of the new street was extended to the original School Road as far as King Street. A cousin visiting the city from Canada investigated for me while making a tourist trip to the church, but said where she assumed #6 School Road, now #? St Machar Drive, would have been was now a bank and parking lot, and took a photo of same. As I have two photos of my father as a boy in front of and behind their house, it doesn't look as if the old structure was reused for the bank building. His maternal grandparents lived in Charles Street at that time, around the years of WW1, but my understanding is that that street was heavily bombed in WW2 and either was rebuilt or paved over for a new wider street. My cousin didn't have time to go there and see, and relied on what her tour guide told her when she asked about the street. Margaret Gibbs On 25/11/2013 6:39 AM, Gavin Bell wrote: > On 25/11/2013 00:34, Malcolm Ward wrote: > >> >> >> I wonder if anyone can tell me if street numbers in Aberdeen have changed >> since, say, the 1860s? >> >> >> >> I have looked in the PO Directories and maps of the time and as far as I can >> tell, 31 Albyn Place in 1865 is the same building as now. But I have a >> bunch of other addresses, including on Union Street. So do I need to check >> each one off, or can I rely on all the old numbers being the same (except >> for maybe splits in allotments I guess)? > > It might be safer not to make assumptions. Some street numbers may well > have changed, and I know for a fact that some street names have. I > can't say for certain whether there were any re-arrangements of existing > numbers on Union Street, but when it was first laid out, the name > applied only as far west as Union Bridge - beyond that was Union Street > West, and west of today's Summer Street it became Union Place. > > > Gavin Bell > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thanks laura It was a forlorn hope as the DALGARNO/DALGARDNO/DALGARDEN lines are very numerous but not too well documented so I have little hope at the moment of finding my way past 1803/4 [approx] Don't worry about delays - they are quite common in this research. We have a 6 month hiatus in our MELDRUM researches at the moment and Sheena's fifth cousin is getting a bit impatient! We have too many doctors & hospital appointments at the moment to be able to keep up with family history on a day to day basis. Even month to month is a bit of a challenge. Hope you enjoy your transfer to the wide blue yonder. Which part are you going to? We have been over there 5 times to many different parts and enjoyed every minute of it. We were always being told we had seen more of the States than the natives [who are not renowned for travelling - G W Bush didn't even have a passport when elected!] But I bet you'll miss Scotland. Have a great time/life there. Best wishes Ray Ray Hennessy www.whatsinaname.net On 23 November 2013 16:52, Laura Dalgarno-Platt <[email protected]>wrote: > Hi Ray > A caveat to my reply is that I have, within the last five weeks, emigrated > from Scotland to America so all of my family history records and my > computer are all on a shipping container and I have no access to them. > (Don't worry: I have the files all backed up on memory sticks). That > means I do not have access to all of my information right now. However, I > am pretty confident that my line (as I have it so far) does not include > William Dalgarden (actually a variation on the surname I have not stumbled > across before) or Margaret Runciman. While I am sure all the Dalgarnos > will connect at some point in history, my own tree is not far enough back > to have reached that point yet. My furthest back ancestor on that line is > Andrew DALGAR(D)NO who married Isabell HUTCHEN in 1767. > Sorry to be no help whatsoever. Rootsweb does have a DALGARNO page you > might want to join so you can connect with other researchers, just in case > you are not already a member of that list. > Best wishes > Laura > > PS Apologies for the delay in replying. I keep this email address just > for family history purposes and, since I have no ability to research right > now, I have not been accessing it very frequently. > > > > Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2013 23:54:07 +0100 > > From: [email protected] > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: [ABERDEEN] DALGARNO > > > > On 13 October 2013 09:17, Laura Dalgarno-Platt <[email protected] > >wrote: > > > > > There are a lot of female Christians in the Shetland part of my family > > > tree and most of those used Christian and Christina interchangeably. > > > Laura Dalgarno-Platt > > > > > > Hi Laura > > > > I have noted your comment about Christina being interchangeable with > female > > Christian but I am writing as I am intrigued by your surname. > > > > My wife's family line includes some DALGARNOs but we are having some > > difficulty determining which ones they are. Margret DALGARNO married > > Norman MELDRUM in Aberdeen St Nicholas on 4 August 1828. We know a lot > > about his ancestors and about a hundred descendants. > > > > However all we know about Margaret is that she was born in Aberdeen > around > > 1805 and her parents were William DALGARDEN and Margaret RUNCIMAN, > married > > in Old Machar on 13 November 1796. > > > > I have not been able to trace William DALGARDEN/DALGARNO's parents and > > wonder if you have any further information. > > > > Regards > > > > Ray Hennessy > > www.whatsinaname.net > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Ray A caveat to my reply is that I have, within the last five weeks, emigrated from Scotland to America so all of my family history records and my computer are all on a shipping container and I have no access to them. (Don't worry: I have the files all backed up on memory sticks). That means I do not have access to all of my information right now. However, I am pretty confident that my line (as I have it so far) does not include William Dalgarden (actually a variation on the surname I have not stumbled across before) or Margaret Runciman. While I am sure all the Dalgarnos will connect at some point in history, my own tree is not far enough back to have reached that point yet. My furthest back ancestor on that line is Andrew DALGAR(D)NO who married Isabell HUTCHEN in 1767. Sorry to be no help whatsoever. Rootsweb does have a DALGARNO page you might want to join so you can connect with other researchers, just in case you are not already a member of that list. Best wishes Laura PS Apologies for the delay in replying. I keep this email address just for family history purposes and, since I have no ability to research right now, I have not been accessing it very frequently. > Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2013 23:54:07 +0100 > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: [ABERDEEN] DALGARNO > > On 13 October 2013 09:17, Laura Dalgarno-Platt <[email protected]>wrote: > > > There are a lot of female Christians in the Shetland part of my family > > tree and most of those used Christian and Christina interchangeably. > > Laura Dalgarno-Platt > > > > Hi Laura > > I have noted your comment about Christina being interchangeable with female > Christian but I am writing as I am intrigued by your surname. > > My wife's family line includes some DALGARNOs but we are having some > difficulty determining which ones they are. Margret DALGARNO married > Norman MELDRUM in Aberdeen St Nicholas on 4 August 1828. We know a lot > about his ancestors and about a hundred descendants. > > However all we know about Margaret is that she was born in Aberdeen around > 1805 and her parents were William DALGARDEN and Margaret RUNCIMAN, married > in Old Machar on 13 November 1796. > > I have not been able to trace William DALGARDEN/DALGARNO's parents and > wonder if you have any further information. > > Regards > > Ray Hennessy > www.whatsinaname.net > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Update to e-mails I posted to this List in August and September. After numerous failed attempts to obtain a detailed graveyard plan of Johnshaven old graveyard I was finally assure by Aberdeen Council that their Cemetery staff would have no difficulty locating the lairs of my grandparents and family. With that assurance I commissioned a gravestone from a memorial specialist company in Aberdeen. We followed all the correct regulations/conditions to comply with the requirements stipulated by Aberdeenshire Council.  Last week I was finally about to have a memorial erected to mark my grandparents grave in Johnshaven old graveyard. Unfortunately things don't always go to plan!  The memorial specialists I had commissioned arrived at the graveyard with this new memorial only to find that AberdeenshireCemeterystaff had failed to install the concrete base for the stone.  The reason given by the cemetery staff was that they had wanted to double-check the location but on phoning the appropriate Council department were told the records had been uplifted for digitising. Unfortunately neither me nor the monumental masons were kept informed.  The company I paid to do he job had a wasted journey and the memorial has been returned to storage. So here's hoping that the friendy Stonehaven Registrar who has assisted me so far can get the Cemetery staff to complete the task they have already been paid to do. Sy in Dumfries ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sandy PITTENDREIGH <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, 23 September 2013, 12:30 Subject: Re: Johnshaven Old Graveyard  Update: In March 1909 my grandfather Walter Freeman bought three layers in Johnshaven graveyard. Burials were as follows:- Lair 553 - Walter Freeman (Lair Owner) buried on 15/09/1925 Lair 553 - Isabella Freeman (Wife of Walter Freeman) buried 27/07/1943 Lair 554 - Elizabeth Freeman (daughter of Walter) buried 22/11/1918 Lair 554 - Williamina Freeman (maiden surname Wyllie, wife of David Freeman my grandparents eldest son) buried 07/05/1932 Lair 555 - Alexander Adam (brother-in-law of Walter Freeman) buried 09/03/1909 Lair 555 - Mary Jane Adam (sister-in-law of Walter Freeman) buried 25/01/1915 These three adjoining lairs are almost certainly located in a large grassy which is almost totally without any memorial stones.  So I now know that at least six of my relatives are actually buried in this old graveyard, what I don't know is the actual location.  I have been told by a local memorials specialist firm that if I want to raise a replacement memorial the Council staff will be responsible for installing the concrete base.  That means they must have a plan of the graveyard that allows them to determine the location.

Pearl wrote: <quote> My 4th great-grandfather, William Ogilvie, came to Nova Scotia about 1787. I have a copy of his petition for land from the government in that year. I do not know what ship he and his family came on or the port from which they left. William was born circa 1745 - 1748. He was married to Isabella. I have no maiden name for her and I understand Isabella could be a nick-name for Elizabeth or Elsbeth. William and Isabella came to Nova Scotia with children who were baptized in Monquhitter Parish. <end quote> First of all, Isabella is neither a nick-name nor synonym for Elizabeth. It is a variant form. I recommend caution before making any assumptions about its application. Monquhitter OPR will not help very much because there appears to have been more than one William OGILVIE who had children baptised there in the 1760s-1780s but only the father’s name is given in the register entries. On a quick search I could not find a marriage in Monquhitter between William OGILVIE and any Isabel, Isobel, Isabella, etc. – nor any Elizabeth &c. More helpfully, I have OGILVIE connections in Halifax, Little River and Musquodoboit and several folders of information on families in these areas, collected when I was disentangling references to the families in which I was interested from others. If you can let me know the names and locations of your William OGILVIE’s children I will see what I can find. Kind regards, Alyson

Hi all Thought thisould be of interest. Regards Les "In honour of Remembrance Day, Ancestry is opening up millions of military records to give everyone the chance to journey back in time and discover the war heroes in their family http://www.anrdoezrs.net/click-7281757-11582783   Between 08 and 12 November 2013, 3.6 million records will be freely available from four important military collections:   WWI Service Records (1914 - 1920) WWII Army Roll of Honour (1939 - 1945) Navy Medal and Roll Awards (1793 - 1972) Victoria Cross Medals (1857 - 2007)   Almost every family in the country will have relatives who once served their country, so these records are an excellent source of discovery.   Travel back through 100 years of military history to find physical descriptions, next of kin, medals awarded, places served, disciplinary procedures, photos, dates and places of death ? and much more.   New WWII collection   Ancestry has added new Civilian War Dead records from WWII, which hold the names of 60,000 civilians who perished during the Second World War. People died in their homes, offices, factories, schools and public vehicles during the terrifying bombings and air raids. London was hardest hit so the London Boroughs have lengthy casualty lists, but the collection also covers many other cities, including Manchester, Birmingham, Nottingham and York.   http://www.anrdoezrs.net/click-7281757-11582783"

Thank you to Goldie and Ray for their responses to my query. From information I have gathered from FamilySearch, I have the following baptisms for four children of William and Isabella Ogilvie - all baptized Monquhitter, Aberdeen with father William - mother's name not given. The information from Indexing Batch C11223 - 4System, origin Scotland - ODM, source film number 993345: William bp 24 May 1767; John bp 25 December 1769; James bp 5 April 1772; Elizabeth bp 31 December 1781 and another entry on 14 Feb 1782 for an Elizabeth (may or may not be the same person). Thanks for any further help. Pearl

Hi Pearl and welcome Firstly, Isabel/Isabella is a synonym for Elizabeth/Elspet. They are fully interchangeable in Scotland, at least. Any girl baptised by any of these names, or the many variants [see my website] may be called by any one of the other names in official records as well as by family & friends. Second: if you have any way of tracing your ancestor back to Scotland and to the 17th century, we have quite a lot of odd information about the OGILVIEs in that century. They were a very influential family and were associated, through several marriages, with the MELDRUM family which is our particular interest. The MELDRUMs lost their lands about the 1690s due to internecine fighting and we think the OGILVIEs and DUFFs were the main beneficiaries! Bear this in mind and should you find a link back that far, give us another posting. BTW, Goldie's advice is well worth following up. Family Search & Scotland's People websites are excellent resources. Good luck & best wishes Ray Hennessy www.whatsinaname.net On 7 November 2013 17:02, Pearl Saunders <[email protected]>wrote: > I am new to this list. I am researching Ogilvie. My 4th > great-grandfather, William Ogilvie, came to Nova Scotia about 1787. I > have a copy of his petition for land from the government in that year. > I do not know what ship he and his family came on or the port from which > they left. William was born circa 1745 - 1748. He was married to > Isabella. I have no maiden name for her and I understand Isabella > could be a nick-name for Elizabeth or Elsbeth. William and Isabella > came to Nova Scotia with children who were baptized in Monquhitter > Parish. I would dearly love to find out more background on this > couple and would especially like to determine Isabella's maiden name. > Any help or suggestions would be most appreciated. Thanks in > advance. Pearl > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I am new to this list. I am researching Ogilvie. My 4th great-grandfather, William Ogilvie, came to Nova Scotia about 1787. I have a copy of his petition for land from the government in that year. I do not know what ship he and his family came on or the port from which they left. William was born circa 1745 - 1748. He was married to Isabella. I have no maiden name for her and I understand Isabella could be a nick-name for Elizabeth or Elsbeth. William and Isabella came to Nova Scotia with children who were baptized in Monquhitter Parish. I would dearly love to find out more background on this couple and would especially like to determine Isabella's maiden name. Any help or suggestions would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance. Pearl

I wonder if the Registrar quoted deliberately changed the spelling of names. I suspect he simply wrote down what he heard. That would be straightforward for all the examples quoted except maybe Mackie/McKay , as we pronounce those two now. Tom On 23 October 2013 21:41, Janet <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Sy, > > What you have said here is useful and I agree its interesting to know > about Robert Young, > particularly since some of mine were in Kincardineshire. It bears the > possibility that > others were doing the same thing. > > Janet > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sandy PITTENDREIGH" <[email protected]> > > > > Hi Folks, > > The following thoughts may be of some interestregarding name variations. > As others have said the spelling of a name in an OPR by the record keeper, > be it the > minister, session clerk or whoever, varied according to the whim of the > individual > recorder. I can think of a couple of reasons why the person presenting the > information may > not have been able to dictate the spelling of the name. He may not have > been literate > enough to tell the difference or not confident enough to challenge an > authority figure to > have the spelling of the name corrected. > > The power of such an authority figure is evident in the records kept by > Robert YOUNG, the > first Registrar in the District of Benholm, formerly Benholm Parish in > Kincardineshire. He > seems to have appointed himself as the authority on the correct spelling > for a number of > family names. He changed McBEY to McBAY, BLEWS to BLUES, MOUAT to MOWAT > and McKAY to > MACKIE. > > Robert Young is not likely to have been unique. After the setting up of > Regstrars in 1855 > families were issued with certificates, these ordinary families now had > important > documents which would be kept. The names recorded on marriage certificates > would determine > the spelling used later registering births, birth certificates would > determine the > spelling on death certificates. It was inevitable that the spelling of > names would become > fixed through such a process. > Today of course, as Alyson has shown us, it is the individual who has the > power to dictate > how their name should be written and pronounced. > > > --- > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus > protection is active. > http://www.avast.com > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Give us the date of birth (or as close as you can) for the children. The LDS film or the site Scotland's People will have the record of the baptisms and likely Isabella's maiden name. If you go to Familysearch.org you can likely find them yourself. But some kind soul will help. Just snooped for a minute and came up empty......will try later. Goldie -----Original Message----- From: Pearl Saunders Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 9:02 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [ABERDEEN] OGILVIE I am new to this list. I am researching Ogilvie. My 4th great-grandfather, William Ogilvie, came to Nova Scotia about 1787. I have a copy of his petition for land from the government in that year. I do not know what ship he and his family came on or the port from which they left. William was born circa 1745 - 1748. He was married to Isabella. I have no maiden name for her and I understand Isabella could be a nick-name for Elizabeth or Elsbeth. William and Isabella came to Nova Scotia with children who were baptized in Monquhitter Parish. I would dearly love to find out more background on this couple and would especially like to determine Isabella's maiden name. Any help or suggestions would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance. Pearl ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

<http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk> Launch of the Valuation Rolls for 1920 - 28 October 2013 Scottish Valuation Rolls for 1920 We're delighted to announce that the Property Valuation Rolls (VRs) for 1920 have just been added to the ScotlandsPeople website. The new records, comprising 2,607,329 indexed names and 76,721 digital images (taken from 169 volumes), cover every kind of property that was assessed in 1920 as having a rateable value, and provide a fascinating snapshot of Scottish society in the wake of the First World War. What do the 1920 Valuation Rolls contain? The Rolls include the names of owners, tenants and occupiers of each property - and in many cases occupations are also listed. The named person in the VR is usually the head of the household. As the Rolls include all types of property, from castles and mansions to crofts and tenements, in turn the records also include people from across the whole social spectrum. The Rolls also reveal some very interesting features of social history in Scotland during the post-WW1 era, two of which we've highlighted below. If you have any questions about Valuation Rolls, visit the dedicated FAQs page that we've created to help explain what the VRs are all about. http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/Content/FAQs/index.aspx?2139 What can I find out from the 1920 Valuation Rolls? You can learn who was living at a specific address, and whether they rented or owned the property. You can also see the rent that was paid for the house or flat, as well as the yearly rateable value of the property. As the 1920 VRs appear almost a decade after the 1911 Census, family history researchers will be able to fill in gaps that were left following the publication of the 1911 Census back in 2011. The Rolls are fully searchable by name and/or address. The first council houses in Scotland – Logie Estate in Dundee One of the major social history changes recorded in the 1920 VRs was the building of the first council houses in Scotland. Designed by James Thompson, the Logie Estate in Dundee was completed in 1920 and was the first housing estate in Europe to have a 'district heating' system. In the two examples (included below) for the Logie Estate, we can see the names of the very first named tenants (and their occupations - an interesting mix of jobs) who lived in council houses in Scotland. In the 'proprietor' column, 'Dundee Town Council' is named as the property owner. As Logie Estate was the first modern public housing, this entry in the Valuation Roll is historic in itself. This terrific photograph (taken in 1920) shows the new style of 'two-up, two-down' design for the houses - a massive contrast to the usual tenement buildings which can be seen in the background. N.B. when viewing these large images on the website, just click on an image to enlarge it further. http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/content/images/logienewsl.jpg http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/content/images/birchwoodl.jpg http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/content/images/elml.jpg The break-up and selling of landed estates Another interesting aspect of Scottish social history featured in the Valuation Rolls is the breaking-up and selling of land following the end of WW1. Indeed, it was claimed that between 1918 and 1921 no less than one fifth of all Scottish land, amounting to 4 million acres, had changed hands. The 1920 Rolls provide clear evidence of the huge transformation that affected Scottish landowners, as well as those in other parts of Britain, in the aftermath of the First World War. <trimmed from this point on> All the Best, The ScotlandsPeople Team. www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com

Hi Sy, What you have said here is useful and I agree its interesting to know about Robert Young, particularly since some of mine were in Kincardineshire. It bears the possibility that others were doing the same thing. Janet ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandy PITTENDREIGH" <[email protected]> Hi Folks, The following thoughts may be of some interestregarding name variations. As others have said the spelling of a name in an OPR by the record keeper, be it the minister, session clerk or whoever, varied according to the whim of the individual recorder. I can think of a couple of reasons why the person presenting the information may not have been able to dictate the spelling of the name. He may not have been literate enough to tell the difference or not confident enough to challenge an authority figure to have the spelling of the name corrected. The power of such an authority figure is evident in the records kept by Robert YOUNG, the first Registrar in the District of Benholm, formerly Benholm Parish in Kincardineshire. He seems to have appointed himself as the authority on the correct spelling for a number of family names. He changed McBEY to McBAY, BLEWS to BLUES, MOUAT to MOWAT and McKAY to MACKIE. Robert Young is not likely to have been unique. After the setting up of Regstrars in 1855 families were issued with certificates, these ordinary families now had important documents which would be kept. The names recorded on marriage certificates would determine the spelling used later registering births, birth certificates would determine the spelling on death certificates. It was inevitable that the spelling of names would become fixed through such a process. Today of course, as Alyson has shown us, it is the individual who has the power to dictate how their name should be written and pronounced. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com

Hi Folks, The following thoughts may be of some interestregarding name variations. As others have said the spelling of a name in an OPR by the record keeper, be it the minister, session clerk or whoever, varied according to the whim of the individual recorder.  I can think of a couple of reasons why the person presenting the information may not have been able to dictate the spelling of the name.  He may not have been literate enough to tell the difference or not confident enough to challenge an authority figure to have the spelling of the name corrected.  The power of such an authority figure is evident in the records kept by Robert YOUNG, the first Registrar in the District of Benholm, formerly Benholm Parish in Kincardineshire. He seems to have appointed himself as the authority on the correct spelling for a number of family names.  He changed McBEY to McBAY, BLEWS to BLUES, MOUAT to MOWAT and McKAY to MACKIE. Robert Young is not likely to have been unique.  After the setting up of Regstrars in 1855 families were issued with certificates, these ordinary families now had important documents which would be kept.  The names recorded on marriage certificates would determine the spelling used later registering births, birth certificates would determine the spelling on death certificates.  It was inevitable that the spelling of names would become fixed through such a process. Today of course, as Alyson has shown us, it is the individual who has the power to dictate how their name should be written and pronounced. Cheers Sy

Hello Joyce, There was a Photo with the Obituary. I don't think I saw a drawing, or did I confuse a Drawing with a Photo ? Thank you, yes, if you could forward it that would be great. Would need to go off the site. e mail is, [email protected] Mary -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Fidler Sent: Wednesday, 23 October 2013 3:13 p.m. To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] Sir James Murray Mary, Did you get the drawing of Sir James which appeared in the paper? I saved a copy of it if you need it. Joyce ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Legarth" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2013 4:46:31 PM Subject: [ABERDEEN] Sir James Murray I wish to acknowledge the assistance given me about 2 weeks ago, in my pursuit of information about Sir James Murray , from Joyce, and Ray. I had previously found a 1920 Obituary in a New Zealand Paper, which mentioned James. My e mail to the Aberdeen Press and Journal, was responded to the following day, by Alison, advising me they did not have the archived copied of the 1933 Obituary, and referred me to the Central Library, Aberdeen, giving the address. I e mailed , and had a response the following working day, from David at the Library, with the copy of the Obituary . He commented that having the exact date, which had come from Ray, was a help. >From the other side of the world, I was so impressed with the Service ! It seems from the Obit., and then the information I did have , Sir James, apparently a distinguished and generous man , was not a Nephew of the 2 Brothers who emigrated to New Zealand. Sir James' Father, was a first cousin of the Brothers, one of those Brothers, William Murray, was the Great Gr. Father of my husband, (and also William) . The Brothers successfully continued the Family business , in various forms, involved in the meat trade in N.Z. . Bill's ( my husband ), Grandfather, also William Murray, married into a Family descended from 4 Convicts transported to Australia. I wonder if Sir James knew ? Probably not mentioned in those days . Mary ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 8952 (20131022) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 8952 (20131022) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com