Hi Isabel Two different fathers is rare [!] but not that unusual. As Gavin once said: the person who knows best is not able to give parental details for the death registration, being dead. Have a look at the informant on the DC. It is possible it's a friend or even a hospital official or similar. If so they probably made up the name. Some registrars put a dash where the name was unknown but some foolishly insisted on a name. If I were you, I'd go with the name on the OPR? marriage registration as at least she would have known her father's correct name. You are lucky that her father is recorded in the OPR; many parishes did little more than name the couple. HTH Ray Ray Hennessy www.whatsinaname.net On 9 March 2014 07:24, Isabel Anderson <[email protected]> wrote: > My apologies Stuart, it was you and John I should have thanked yesterday. > > Further to my last email. > > I have downloaded Isabella McPHEE, CHALMERS death certificate. > > It has her Father as William McPHEE, linen weaver, Mother: Sarah FRASER > > On Isabella McPHEE's marriage details to Henry COOK in 1845 in Aberdeen, it > states Isabella is the daughter of John McFEE, a Weaver in Inverness. > > I have a death of her child Isabella COOK Jan 1860, Mother, Isabella COOK > maiden name McPHEE. (The older COOK children were in England in 1861 with > Paternal Grandmother). > > The birth of Isabella CHALMERS Dec 1860, Mother, Isabella McPHEE or COOK. > > Now I am confused! I am sure I have the right Isabella McPHEE with two > different Fathers named! > > Oh dear any advice is welcome.. > Regards, > Isabel, > N.Z. > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

It looks as if Isabella had 2 daughters, both named Isabella. One died in January 1860 (the death certificate should record her age) and the next child, born in December that year, was given the same name - a practice typical of the time. >From what you've said, however, it would appear that these children had different fathers. That might go some way to explaining why the older Cook children were living with grandparents in 1861. What had become of Henry Cook? The circumstances suggest that he might have died, but this isn't the only possibility. His occupation might provide some clues. It's worth checking the precise wording on the various certificates you have, and comparing the details with the standard information recorded at the time, which varied slightly during the period 1855 - 1865. You can check the exact requirements at http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/Content/Help/index.aspx?r=554&408. Alison On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 7:24 AM, Isabel Anderson <[email protected]>wrote: > My apologies Stuart, it was you and John I should have thanked yesterday. > > Further to my last email. > > I have downloaded Isabella McPHEE, CHALMERS death certificate. > > It has her Father as William McPHEE, linen weaver, Mother: Sarah FRASER > > On Isabella McPHEE's marriage details to Henry COOK in 1845 in Aberdeen, it > states Isabella is the daughter of John McFEE, a Weaver in Inverness. > > I have a death of her child Isabella COOK Jan 1860, Mother, Isabella COOK > maiden name McPHEE. (The older COOK children were in England in 1861 with > Paternal Grandmother). > > The birth of Isabella CHALMERS Dec 1860, Mother, Isabella McPHEE or COOK. > > Now I am confused! I am sure I have the right Isabella McPHEE with two > different Fathers named! > > Oh dear any advice is welcome.. > Regards, > Isabel, > N.Z. > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Have you got the records for the children in England? I would be prepared to have a look for you in Ancestry. I have seen something like this conundrum before, though each person seems to weave their own magical situation is true. I have records where an entirely different male's name is given as the father. Perhaps he owned up to an illegitimate liaison. A certificate under English law I have does not state the child is illegitimate or "reputed father" In Scotland, if a child is born to a woman who is no longer married to a first or subsequent husband, does the child take her maiden surname or her married name? Janet ----- Original Message ----- From: "Isabel Anderson" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2014 7:24 AM Subject: [ABERDEEN] Isabella McPHEE COOK CHALMERS My apologies Stuart, it was you and John I should have thanked yesterday. Further to my last email. I have downloaded Isabella McPHEE, CHALMERS death certificate. It has her Father as William McPHEE, linen weaver, Mother: Sarah FRASER On Isabella McPHEE's marriage details to Henry COOK in 1845 in Aberdeen, it states Isabella is the daughter of John McFEE, a Weaver in Inverness. I have a death of her child Isabella COOK Jan 1860, Mother, Isabella COOK maiden name McPHEE. (The older COOK children were in England in 1861 with Paternal Grandmother). The birth of Isabella CHALMERS Dec 1860, Mother, Isabella McPHEE or COOK. Now I am confused! I am sure I have the right Isabella McPHEE with two different Fathers named! Oh dear any advice is welcome.. Regards, Isabel, N.Z. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com

Hi Sue - There is a William McKenzie on 1861 census at 4 Shuttle Lane, St. Nicholas Aberdeen. Parents are David & Jessie McKenzie Brenda -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: March-08-14 7:24 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [ABERDEEN] Brick wall Hi New to the list. I am looking for the birth of William McKenzie(my great grandfathrr)1855 to 1897, father David a laborer. The only one I can find (igi & ancestry) is a William Macleggan McKenzie born 1857 to David & Margt St Nicholas Aberdeen. I'm not convinced. Our family frequently used surnames as second names, he never used it, EVER, not even on his army enlistment papers, or marriage, or death for that matter. On his enlistment papers he states he was born St Nicholas. Family folklore says that an Ann may have been his mother but while there is a David & . Ann, no William. I thought Margaret might have been Macleggan but can't find her either. If anyone can help I would be very grateful. His enlistment papers say he was a farm servant. Regards SueC Sent from Samsung tablet ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Kath & John, Thank you so much for the information about Isabella McPHEE. I am descended from Isabella & Henry COOK. I only just recently found her married again to William CHALMERS because at the birth of their baby she was listed as Isabella McPHEE or COOK. She has been a frustrating nightmare for years! Hopefully I'll be able to find her 1st husband Henry COOKs death between 1855 - 60, doing what you suggest Kath. Haven't been able to find him unless he died at sea. (He was a Seaman). I will download her death from scotlandspeople thanks John. I cannot understand why I didn't find her. I'm still learning! Regards, Isabel N.Z.

Hi Sue When you say "birth of William McKenzie (my great grandfather) 1855-1897" are you saying he died in 1897 aged c.42? If he married in Scotland, the Scotland's People site http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/ would have the registrations details including parents. If he died on active service [?Boer War, 1897?] the regimental records would have his details and I thought enlistment papers included next of kin and ???parents. Is this how you found out his father? If he died in Scotland [even after military service], his death should have been registered in Scotland. You could find this on Scotland's People and registration would have included his parents assuming the informant knew who they were! If he was born in 1855-ish he should be on the 1861 census at home which would presumably show his parents. This is also available on Scotland's People as are the censuses for 1871,1881 and 1891. Have you looked for David & Ann McKenzie in the 181 census? This would show their children at home. however, we know of several cases where a young child was with the grandmother on Census night [including my wife's eldest aunt] so you need to be a dedicated detective to find the grandparents and check them out if he isn't with his supposed parents. Admittedly it can be a bit expensive buying lots of credits on ScP but the IGI might give you useful indicators before you go to ScP. *One Tip* When you do a search on ScP make sure you broaden your search to get as many examples as is sensible. The search hits are supplied 25 to a page which costs one credit. So it makes sense to widen the search [e.g. by adding parishes (up to 5) and/or extra years] to get 25 hits or just under that [or a multiple of 25]. In the long run these extra hits can prove very valuable. Hope this helps. If you haven't used Scotland's People, just ask and I or someone will help. Good hunting Ray Ray Hennessy www.whatsinaname.net On 8 March 2014 15:23, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi > New to the list. > I am looking for the birth of William McKenzie(my great grandfathrr)1855 > to 1897, father David a laborer. The only one I can find (igi & ancestry) > is a William Macleggan McKenzie born 1857 to David & Margt St Nicholas > Aberdeen. I'm not convinced. Our family frequently used surnames as second > names, he never used it, EVER, not even on his army enlistment papers, or > marriage, or death for that matter. On his enlistment papers he states he > was born St Nicholas. Family folklore says that an Ann may have been his > mother but while there is a David & . > Ann, no William. I thought Margaret might have been Macleggan but can't > find her either. If anyone can help I would be very grateful. His > enlistment papers say he was a farm servant. > Regards > SueC > > > > Sent from Samsung tablet > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Sue, If William was born in 1855 or later, you should be able to search for his birth Scottish civil registration records at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk which is a pay-per-view site. Since you can narrow the search down to Aberdeen/shire, that should help to eliminate most of those born elsewhere in Scotland - and you'd be amazed how many there were! If his birth was earlier than 1855, then you're more likely to find a record in the Old Parish Registers of baptisms (on the same site), even if it's not in the IGI/Ancestry. Census records are also available as images on ScotlandsPeople, so it would be well worth searching the records for 1861, when William was likely to be living with other family members. Good luck! Alison On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 3:23 PM, [email protected] <[email protected]>wrote: > > Hi > New to the list. > I am looking for the birth of William McKenzie(my great grandfathrr)1855 > to 1897, father David a laborer. The only one I can find (igi & ancestry) > is a William Macleggan McKenzie born 1857 to David & Margt St Nicholas > Aberdeen. I'm not convinced. Our family frequently used surnames as second > names, he never used it, EVER, not even on his army enlistment papers, or > marriage, or death for that matter. On his enlistment papers he states he > was born St Nicholas. Family folklore says that an Ann may have been his > mother but while there is a David & . > Ann, no William. I thought Margaret might have been Macleggan but can't > find her either. If anyone can help I would be very grateful. His > enlistment papers say he was a farm servant. > Regards > SueC > > > > Sent from Samsung tablet > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

It seems a request for information. I am connected to a line commencing with Charles SHAND born 30 July 1755 Strathdon, Aberdeenshire who married 16 November 1777 with Elizabeth MITCHELL. I cant help with Thomas but could share what I have. Janet ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carol" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2014 3:23 PM Subject: [ABERDEEN] Shand Family of Old Machar Forwarded by List Admin. All replies please to Sue. Thank You on behalf of; Sue Barker [[email protected]] Thomas Shand b abt 1831 but was a Blacksmith for a lot of years at Denmore Smithy on Ellon Road, Old Machar Sue Barker Mahogany Creek, WA, Australia ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com

Forwarded by List Admin. All replies please to Sue. Thank You on behalf of; Sue Barker [[email protected]] Thomas Shand b abt 1831 but was a Blacksmith for a lot of years at Denmore Smithy on Ellon Road, Old Machar Sue Barker Mahogany Creek, WA, Australia

Hi New to the list. I am looking for the birth of William McKenzie(my great grandfathrr)1855 to 1897, father David a laborer. The only one I can find (igi & ancestry) is a William Macleggan McKenzie born 1857 to David & Margt St Nicholas Aberdeen. I'm not convinced. Our family frequently used surnames as second names, he never used it, EVER, not even on his army enlistment papers, or marriage, or death for that matter. On his enlistment papers he states he was born St Nicholas. Family folklore says that an Ann may have been his mother but while there is a David & . Ann, no William. I thought Margaret might have been Macleggan but can't find her either. If anyone can help I would be very grateful. His enlistment papers say he was a farm servant. Regards SueC Sent from Samsung tablet

I hope people will build on its purpose. There are stories there some may not yet realise. Where people are concerned there is nothing predictable. It is useful to check records systematically for gaps in a family where there may have been a birth, say about 1895. Where naming patterns have been applied and may be not yet found, there may have been a grandson in that gap, named the same as his father and grandfather. . This is my story because I actually found one I didnt know I had: My grandmother's 1st cousin, a Corporal in the London Scottish Regiment, which became 1/14th London Regiment like "Billy Boy" (in the introduction video on the site), blown to bits at Thiepval. Nothing else to find other than what I overturned Looking into it I found Father and son, same name signed up together in 1915. It would have been easy for me not to look any further having found one medal card. By that time he had an average family of children I thought, and looked for no more. His War Record revealed several more children to make 8, naming each one and his wife as his next of kin claiming the family allowance they were awarded. , Looking more closely at the records I located in Ancestry I was seeing another medal card of the same name. They weren't in the same regiment, nor the same rank, nor in the same theatre of war, and of course, they weren't the same age. It was at this point I had found another "cousin". Checking father's declaration confirmed who he was. His father lied about his age by about 10 yrs, claimed family allowance for the son who went to war, and came back bringing his medal with him. There must have been a time when the wife and mother wondered "Which one?" she had lost. I had no photographs other than those my mother and grandmother took, perhaps no camera in the family whether or not they could have bought one. I later found a photograph of my grandmother's 1st cousin on the London Regiment website. In a unique twist of fate I learned that the records I was looking at had apparently been rescued and preserved from water damage during the second war. They were in the Ministry of Pensions building where my grandmother worked during the war and after, analysing the case histories of the Polish Airmen who flew for us and so were entitled to a War Pension. I asked about the London Scottish Regiment records but have found none thus far. http://www.londonscottishregt.org/history.cfm The Regiment was formed from The Highland Armed Association of London and The Loyal North Britons raised in 1793 and 1803 as part of the country's Volunteer Forces ready to repel Napoleon's threatened invasion of England. These formations were later disbanded and it was not until after the Crimean War that the country's security seemed again to be in danger.in about 1859 and there was a strong volunteer rifle "army" in readiness. Coincidentally the formation of the London Scottish coincided with the year my second great grandfather left Scotland and married a lass in London who lived in Auchenblae, Scotland, only a few miles away from where he was born. I had a lot of information about them because my grandmother remembered going to Scotland as a child. She could now be forgiven for believing it was her grandfather who died in France when it was her 1st cousin who was born in exactly the same year as she. Janet ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexander Bisset" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2014 12:09 PM Subject: [ABERDEEN] Lives of the First World War Hi All, I thought you might like to know that at the Who Do You Think You Are Live 2014, the Imperial War Museum announced that they have created a new project to fulfil thier founding aim of telling the story of all 8 million UK & Commonwealth Lives of the First World War. Using modern technology they have been able to create an innovative platform where they plan to enable users to help piece together the stories of the people who fought and served as well as those on the home front. They are looking for people with an interest in family history to help build these stories by contributing digital copies of material from their own families and areas of interest. You will be able to use the platform to communicate with others who have an interest and who share a community interest with your family.Did your relative play football with others in the area? Did he work at the same place as others in the area? Is he commemorated on your local war memorial? By building up a picture of eac! h individual and by linking in other resources like war diaries, local newspaper articles, family mementos etc the site aims to create a permanent digital memorial to all 8 million individuals. You can view the video of the project to see how it works and how you will be able to build a picture of your ancestors here : http://vimeo.com/iwm/lives The site launches in May however they are asking those with an interest in family history to register an interest now to get a preview of the site before launch and an opportunity to help improve the site before launch. You can register your interest at http://www.livesofthefirstworldwar.org/ You may wish to spread the news to other family history researchers you know who might like to get involved in the project particularly anyone who is interested in the history of their local war memorials. Regards,Alexander ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com

On 03/07/2014 04:49 PM, Gavin Bell wrote: > On 07/03/2014 22:20, [email protected] wrote: >>> Were death/burial records maintained in Tarves Parish or might this be one record that may have been missed if they were kept? >> The keeping of death records (pre 1855) is few and far between in Scottish churches. Hence the value of MIs, Lair records and Mort Cloth (hire) records. > With the possible exception of large urban burial grounds, systematic > lair records are also uncommon before the end of the 19th century - the > gravedigger knew where everyone's burial ground was. And where there are > Mortcloth records, these are in effect included with the OPR "death" > records. > > Many parishes simply did not keep any sort of record of who died, and > Tarves was one such. In the present case, the individual concerned does > seem to have had a marked grave, so the full text of the MI may be useful. > > > Gavin Bell Thank you all for your quick response to my query. Some years ago after learning that it was Aberdeen "we" came from, and shortly after learning that the ANES office had a booklet with inscriptions, that booklet was purchased. Since then we have had occasion to visit Tarves and get a picture of the monument with three generations of that family named. Where Alexander Wallace was born and who his parents were may forever be lost to discovery, although the year of his birth appears to have been 1772 based on the year of his death (1840) and notation that he was in the 68th year of his age. Regards, Bob Wallace Fort Worth, Texas

Hi All, I thought you might like to know that at the Who Do You Think You Are Live 2014, the Imperial War Museum announced that they have created a new project to fulfil thier founding aim of telling the story of all 8 million UK & Commonwealth Lives of the First World War. Using modern technology they have been able to create an innovative platform where they plan to enable users to help piece together the stories of the people who fought and served as well as those on the home front. They are looking for people with an interest in family history to help build these stories by contributing digital copies of material from their own families and areas of interest. You will be able to use the platform to communicate with others who have an interest and who share a community interest with your family.Did your relative play football with others in the area? Did he work at the same place as others in the area? Is he commemorated on your local war memorial? By building up a picture of each individual and by linking in other resources like war diaries, local newspaper articles, family mementos etc the site aims to create a permanent digital memorial to all 8 million individuals. You can view the video of the project to see how it works and how you will be able to build a picture of your ancestors here : http://vimeo.com/iwm/lives The site launches in May however they are asking those with an interest in family history to register an interest now to get a preview of the site before launch and an opportunity to help improve the site before launch. You can register your interest at http://www.livesofthefirstworldwar.org/ You may wish to spread the news to other family history researchers you know who might like to get involved in the project particularly anyone who is interested in the history of their local war memorials. Regards,Alexander

Thank Alexander - that's a very special link Marcella FINDLAY Shames On Mar 8, 2014, at 7:09 AM, Alexander Bisset <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi All, > I thought you might like to know that at the Who Do You Think You Are Live 2014, the Imperial War Museum announced that they have created a new project to fulfil thier founding aim of telling the story of all 8 million UK & Commonwealth Lives of the First World War. Using modern technology they have been able to create an innovative platform where they plan to enable users to help piece together the stories of the people who fought and served as well as those on the home front. They are looking for people with an interest in family history to help build these stories by contributing digital copies of material from their own families and areas of interest. You will be able to use the platform to communicate with others who have an interest and who share a community interest with your family.Did your relative play football with others in the area? Did he work at the same place as others in the area? Is he commemorated on your local war memorial? By building up a picture of e! ac! > h individual and by linking in other resources like war diaries, local newspaper articles, family mementos etc the site aims to create a permanent digital memorial to all 8 million individuals. > You can view the video of the project to see how it works and how you will be able to build a picture of your ancestors here : http://vimeo.com/iwm/lives > The site launches in May however they are asking those with an interest in family history to register an interest now to get a preview of the site before launch and an opportunity to help improve the site before launch. You can register your interest at http://www.livesofthefirstworldwar.org/ > You may wish to spread the news to other family history researchers you know who might like to get involved in the project particularly anyone who is interested in the history of their local war memorials. > Regards,Alexander > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On 07/03/2014 22:20, [email protected] wrote: >> Were death/burial records maintained in Tarves Parish or might this be one record that may have been missed if they were kept? > The keeping of death records (pre 1855) is few and far between in Scottish churches. Hence the value of MIs, Lair records and Mort Cloth (hire) records. With the possible exception of large urban burial grounds, systematic lair records are also uncommon before the end of the 19th century - the gravedigger knew where everyone's burial ground was. And where there are Mortcloth records, these are in effect included with the OPR "death" records. Many parishes simply did not keep any sort of record of who died, and Tarves was one such. In the present case, the individual concerned does seem to have had a marked grave, so the full text of the MI may be useful. Gavin Bell

Hi all Goldie wrote >The Minister was required to keep an account of the money paid in rental of the Mort Cloth. May I correct two common mis-understanding. Unlike the (so called) "English" church where the Parish 'belongs' to the Vicar/Priest in the Presbyterian Church of Scotland the Parish belongs to the Congregation and its records are, by Church Law, required to be kept by the Session Clerk. In the "English" church the Vicar is appointed to a Parish by the Bishop of the Diocese whilst in the Presb CofS the Parish advertises its vacancy and prospective Ministers have to present their credentials, and preach to, the congregation. The successful applicant is appointed by the Kirk Session. Regards Les Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

Bob said >Were death/burial records maintained in Tarves Parish or might this be one record that may have been missed if they were kept? The keeping of death records (pre 1855) is few and far between in Scottish churches. Hence the value of MIs, Lair records and Mort Cloth (hire) records. Aberdeen & North East Scotland FHS's Index of MIs - www.anesfhs.org.uk/databank/miindex/miindex.php - lists stone #121 in their booklet AA186 (Kirkyard of Tarves) which includes Alexander Wallace died 20 Mar 1840. Regards Les Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

Hello Bob, The Aberdeen and Northeast Scotland Family History Society publishes MI booklets and your Alexander Wallace is listed in the Kirkyard of Tarves. Here is the link to their online index - just input his name and select Tarves as the burial ground. The actual transcription would be contained in the MI booklet. Many of the MI's indicate the date of death. Do not know if this one does or not..sorry..I do not have the booklet. http://www.anesfhs.org.uk/databank/miindex/miindex.php http://www.anesfhs.org.uk/publ.php#series1 Sorry I could not answer your original question. Good luck, Barbara On 3/7/2014 3:55 PM, Bob Wallace wrote: > Apparently, another brick wall has fallen in my way. While looking for a > death/burial record on ScotlandsPeople web site in their pre-1855 > section with the date of death known, that date being 20 March 1840 and > in his 68th year, no record is to be found for Alexander Wallace, the > crofter/mason who died at Cairnbrogie on the date given above. > > Were death/burial records maintained in Tarves Parish or might this be > one record that may have been missed if they were kept? > > Regards, > > Bob Wallace > Fort Worth, Texas > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Apparently, another brick wall has fallen in my way. While looking for a death/burial record on ScotlandsPeople web site in their pre-1855 section with the date of death known, that date being 20 March 1840 and in his 68th year, no record is to be found for Alexander Wallace, the crofter/mason who died at Cairnbrogie on the date given above. Were death/burial records maintained in Tarves Parish or might this be one record that may have been missed if they were kept? Regards, Bob Wallace Fort Worth, Texas

I am looking for my G.G Grandmother's death in Aberdeen from 1871 on. Would Isabella be listed under McPHEE (m.s.) or COOK (1st marriage) or CHALMERS (2nd marriage)? I have not found her on '81 Census as yet. On the '61/'71 Census it has Isabella born in Inverness. She was living at 53 Longacre, Aberdeen with William CHALMERS. I have been unable to find her birth on Scotlandspeople. On her 1st marriage, it has Father John McFEE. I found Isabella has a child buried in Old Machar Churchyard and Isabella married in St. Nicholas/St Clements. Any help would be much appreciated. Regards, Isabel NZ.