Hello, all. I wanted to thank everyone who made suggestions on this topic. Just to give folks a quick round-up if they're also interested, the list of current technology people suggested was as follows: -- www.tribalpages.com (several votes) -- www.LegacyFamilyTree.com -- The Next Generation (TNG) software: http://lythgoes.net/genealogy/software.php -- geni.com -- Google wave http://wave.google.com/help/wave/about.html (in development) And then there were the very good points people raised about the limitations of expecting to do serious work and maintain quality assurance in an online format, in collaboration with people who may have very different levels of computer sophistication and standards of proof. I find all these arguments very compelling since they're the same issues I have with the concept. :-) I worked very hard to debunk the wrong information that had been passed around in my family's tree, and to find and document as much actual information as possible. The possibility of new misinformation creeping back in makes me twitchy. And cranky. So I now have plenty of research and thinking to do about what is trying to be accomplished with what presentation of what data where. My initial reaction to what I've heard back is that as researchers we are collectively getting much closer to a place where we can have both collaboration and rigor online. But it seems a little cumbersome yet. Still, when I compare being able to call up certificates on Scotlandspeople now, to needing to trek halfway across the world when I originally did some of this work I'm very optimistic about what a few more years may bring. Thanks again, Suzanne

No Ray, I'm the one that totally miss read Laura's comment.  I read her comment as "using the name CORDINER as a substitute name for CHARLES" (ie: Jack for John etc).  I guess being upside down on the other side of the Globe has given me fuzzy vision.  And yes you are correct, surnames are very prominent in Scottish naming, they certainly are in our family anyway. From replies received on my query about Kinnaird Castle, it would seem that in recent times it has ceased to be a Castle and is now known simply as the Kinnaird Lighthouse.  It is my understanding that the Lighthouse was actually built within the castle.  Can anyone tell me when the Castle ceased to function, and does it actually still exist. Cheers Ken New Zealand ________________________________ From: Ray Hennessy <ray@whatsinaname.net> To: aberdeen@rootsweb.com Sent: Wed, 25 November, 2009 12:43:15 PM Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] Charles Cordiner Kerr .............. Ken May commented: > ..., I would be very surprised if Cordiner was ever used as a middle name for Charles. I'm intrigued by your assertion, Ken.  If the "...Cordiner surname was very prominent in the Peterhead area ...", would it not be natural - and typically Scottish - to find it used occasionally as a middle name?  Or have I misunderstood your comment? Best wishes Ray

Hi Howard Noticed your post about Carr (Kerr) and Cook (Cock) I have a Silvester Cock or Cook who married Lillias or Lily Carr in Aberdeen in 1812. Lily was the fifth daughter of John Carr b 1749 and Agnes Leiper b 1754 both at Banchory Devenick. I cannot find out much about Silvester (I haven't come across many of them in the North East!) except that he was a carpenter and lived in Holburn Street, Aberdeen. His son was also a carpenter and as this is a trade that seems to run in families I wandered if his father had been a carpenter or wright. Any carpenters in the your Cock link. I also have a Cook connection with Fordyce. one of my great great grandmothers was Margaret Cook born 1815 at Fordyce daughter of William Cook and Elizabeth Wood ( from Seatown, Portsoy) but this is a completely different line from my Carrs of Banchory Devenick. However if this sparks any interest from other Cooks or Carrs so much to the good George On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 8:01 AM, Marilyn & Michael Lacey < laceyml@optusnet.com.au> wrote: > Hello > It's great to see the KERR name come up on the list. I have been trying > for 20 years to find the parents of my Alexander Kerr (Carr) without > success. My 2xgreat grandfather George Kerr was baptised at Monquhitter in > 1826. He was the son of Alexander KERR and Mary SINCLAIR. Mary was the > daughter of Alexander Sinclair and Elspet Robertson. She was born 1800 in > Pitsligo. Alexander Kerr died in 1838 at Balthangie, Monquhitter. He had 2 > other children, daughters Mary 1829 and Betty Whyte 1835. > Regards > Marilyn > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- George Brander Torre de la Horadada España

Hello It's great to see the KERR name come up on the list. I have been trying for 20 years to find the parents of my Alexander Kerr (Carr) without success. My 2xgreat grandfather George Kerr was baptised at Monquhitter in 1826. He was the son of Alexander KERR and Mary SINCLAIR. Mary was the daughter of Alexander Sinclair and Elspet Robertson. She was born 1800 in Pitsligo. Alexander Kerr died in 1838 at Balthangie, Monquhitter. He had 2 other children, daughters Mary 1829 and Betty Whyte 1835. Regards Marilyn

Marilyn, have you tried: Father: George KERR, Mother: Jean COCK (sometimes COOK) ** ALEXANDER KER Christening: 26 APR 1794 Fordyce, Banff WALTER KERR Birth: 13 JAN 1798 Christening: 22 JAN 1798 Banff, Banff JAMES KER Christening: 02 APR 1800 Fordyce, Banff JANNET KER Christening: 02 APR 1800 Fordyce, Banff JEAN CARR Female Christening: 24 MAY 1802 Forglen, Banff ISABEL KER Birth: 20 MAY 1804 Christening: 20 MAY 1804 Alvah, Banff BEATRICE CAR Christening: 18 MAR 1806 Fordyce, Banff Note the twins; do any turn later on in your family? Alexander was born at the Mains of Glassaugh; Beatrice (thus Betty?) at Smiddyboyne. I suggest this only because one of my relatives links into the COCK side. Howard Geddes

Ken May wrote: > ... > What I had hoped to achieve was to complete a gap in the life of my > Grandmother for the years from 1918 to 1928. I have managed to piece > together some of the places she lived during this time but do NOT > have any dates as yet. If I could prove/disprove the Kinnaird Castle > claim it would at least clear up one area of interest. > > She was a war Widow with six children (all born between 1909 and > 1916). In which arm of the forces did her husband serve? Lighthouses like Kinnaird were largely staffed by former mariners (either Royal Navy or civilian) and if he had been in the Navy, then it might not be particularly surprising if his widow was given accommodation at Kinnaird. The (former) castle, on top of which the light is (rather incongruously) mounted is surrounded by a courtyard of low-rise buildings which formerly housed families of serving lighthouse keepers. There are also fairly extensive 2-storey buildings close by which now house the static exhibits of the Lighthouse Museum, so, while it is unlikely that the familiy was housed *in* the castle (which is largely taken up with offices and workshops) it strikes me as quite possible they may have lived *at* the castle. > ... > Thanks again for your replies. I will try and contact the Lighthouse > again to see if they can assist. The actual lighthouse has been automated, but I imagine the Museum might hold some archival material which could have a bearing on your query. Gavin Bell

Dear Listers, I know that Reverrand was located in the parish of Rafford in Moray. The modern Aberdeen County Council refers to it as a now demolished croft within its own boundary. Can anyone give me an OS grid reference please? I have tried locating the place on Old Maps with no success. TIA Melvyn.

Hullo Ruth, There is, if I remember correctly, a Bogs at Hillhead of Auchharnie in Forgue parish, for which the registration district has been Ythanwells since some time in the later 1800s. tom > Hello List Members; > > I may have sent a partial note to the List as I pressed a key by mistake > and > my note disappeared! Here is the complete note: > > Thank you to Gavin and Ray for their replies. Unfortunately, I have only > "Family Lore" to refer to. > > What I do know which may be helpful is that our grgrgrandfather was born > in > Banff, Banffshire abt 1845, He was found on the 1851 Census in Banff, > Banffshire, High Street Close, 1861 Census in Alvah, Banffshire at Strath > of > Bydock, 1864 at Braco, Aberdour, 1867, New Aberdour, Aberdour, 1871 > Census > at Aberdeenshire, Strichen, Fridayhill, 1874 at Savoch, New Deer, 1881 > Census at Aberdeenshire, Methlick, Burnside, 1891 Census at Loch St. > Aberdeen St. Nicholas, 1901 Census at Wales Street, North Aberdeen. He > remained in Aberdeen, Loch Street, until his death. > > Copies of BMD Certs for he, his wife, and his children do not refer to > the > two place names mentioned by relatives now passed..Family hearsay gave > only the names AUCHNIE BOGS and SMARTIES WELLS in North Aberdeenshire as > family residences. No other info is available to me regarding these > locations. > > Ruth in Canada. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content > by the SmallWorld MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > --------------------------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by the SmallWorld MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ---------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry Laura, none of the names you mention are in my tree.  However, I would be very surprised if Cordiner was ever used as a middle name for Charles. The Cordiner surname was very prominent in the Peterhead area from the 16th century onward.  Cordiner was also an occupation.  I believe its origins are in France but more knowledgeable people than I would need to verify that. Ken ________________________________ From: Ron and Laura Bozzay <rbozzay@earthlink.net> To: aberdeen@rootsweb.com Sent: Sun, 22 November, 2009 8:20:41 PM Subject: [ABERDEEN] Charles Cordiner Kerr I have Charles Cordiner KERR in my line.  I show he was born 25 July 1847 in Kininmonth, Lonmay, Aberdeenshire.  He was listed as a farm servant in one of the OPR records.  He is the son of William Kerr and Catherine MACKIE.  He was married twice.  First to Anne COPLAND 12 June 1869 Lonmay. (She was the daughter of John COPLAND and Elizabeth CHEYNE).  They had 6 children. After Ann died in a bovine incident, he married Annie Minnie COOPER and they had two more children.  The second marriage was 28 Jun 1879 Rathen.  I am looking for more info on this Kerr family.  How does Cordiner fit in as it is a middle name of  Charles? Thanks! Laura ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks Mary, if you would like the little I have on the Barrons, let me know and I'll Fwd to you off list. Regards Wayne. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Simpson" <mary@msimpson.demon.co.uk> To: <aberdeen@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 3:26 AM Subject: [ABERDEEN] John Barron > Hello Wayne > > thank you for the very interesting information on your Barrons. The > trouble is, I have no more data on our Barrons apart from the fact that > John married Margaret Youngson in 1810 in Old Deer - this was > Margaret's parish - and he next appears farming in Brucehill, New > Deer, in the 1841 census, aged 55 so birth year 1786 unless the > enumerator rounded down his age to 55 and shaved a few years off. The > marriage entry does not give father's names and I have been unable to > find John's parents or birthplace. There are a few possibilities but I > haven't been able to nail one down positively. John Barron and > Margaret Youngson's eldest children were: Margaret 1811, Jean 1813, > John 1814, so presumably his father's name was also John. The next > eldest son's name was William, born 1816. Of course, some children may > have died although there are very few gaps in the childrens' births so > I am not sure. > > If John Barron were Jean Barron's elder brother that would mean he was > from Tullynessie, a fair distance south of Old Deer - but not > impossible, I suppose. > > I have found in Scotlands' People John Barron born to: > William Barron 25.12.1782 in Kinnethmont - just to the north of > Tullynessie > John Barron & Elspet Paul 11.07.1783 in Rayne - again north of > Tullynessie > > otherwise > James Barron & Margaret Imray 24.06.1783 in Midmar to the south and > west of the City of Aberdeen. > John Barron & Katharine Marr 6.1.1780 in the city of Aberdeen. > > So it may well be that John's father was either the William or ( first > ) John above - or he might have not been in the registers at > all...... > > Mary > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you to those who replied about my Kinnaird Castle inquiry.  I guess I confused the issue by not including enough detail in my inquiry to fully explain the reason for listing it. What I had hoped to achieve was to complete a gap in the life of my Grandmother for the years from 1918 to 1928.  I have managed to piece together some of the places she lived during this time but do NOT have any dates as yet.  If I could prove/disprove the Kinnaird Castle claim it would at least clear up one area of interest. She was a war Widow with six children (all born between 1909 and 1916).  She rarely talked about her life in scotland, and certainly didn't discuss it with her grandchildren.  The last of her children died 15 years ago and the only information I have is heresay.  Only one branch of the family has expressed knowledge of living at the Kinnaird Castle, and that was the reason I was trying to establish whether it was fact or heresay...  Even my own father never mention it, but that was not unusual because he rarely talked about his life in Fraserburgh prior to immigrating to New Zealand. Thanks again for your replies.  I will try and contact the Lighthouse again to see if they can assist. Ken May New Zealand

2009/11/23 RUTH DUNNE <abersyl@gmail.com> wrote: > Thank you to  Gavin and Ray for their replies. Unfortunately, I have only "Family Lore" to refer to. Some further questions, Ruth, in the interest of furthering your research. a] What was your gggf's name? What are his parent's names on his MC and/or DC? Are they in the Censuses with a parish of birth noted? Do you have a birth record for either of them? b] Was the "family lore" written down or passed on orally? If written, was it by one of the "passed" relatives, or did you write it yourself from chatting to someone? Was there any other detail? c] What was the family context in which the place names were mentioned? If it was pre1855, the location in Methlick in 1891 after moving several times [initially from Banffshire] is not entirely relevant. Note: North Arnybogs and Burnside are less than half a mile apart [in 1881 Sheena's ggm lived c300 yards up the road from Burnside but had moved by 1891!!] d] Are you sure that the "North" applied to Aberdeenshire and not to Auchnie Bogs? This may be a mix up in the recording of these names. -- Best wishes and good hunting Ray ********************************************************** >From Ray Hennessy Forenames website: www.whatsinaname.net Preferred Email address: ray@whatsinaname.net Hints for Scotland's People at http://bit.ly/WIAN-SCP **********************************************************

Re Smarties Wells: how about Sauchie Wells - being a variation on Sauchwells (aka Saughwells) in Bellie, which could be construed as "Aberdeenshire North". Howard

RUTH DUNNE wrote: > Hello List Members; > > I may have sent a partial note to the List as I pressed a key by mistake and > my note disappeared! Here is the complete note: > > Thank you to Gavin and Ray for their replies. Unfortunately, I have only > "Family Lore" to refer to. If the source is "hearsay", then, of course, much might have happened to the original names in the course of transmission! As an example of "oral transmission" I remember the story of the General who sent a message: "Send reinforcements; we are going to advance." - but once this had been carried to Headquarters by a series of runners, relaying it by word of mouth, the despatch was received as: "Send three-and-fourpence; we are going to a dance." > > What I do know which may be helpful is that our grgrgrandfather was born in > Banff, Banffshire abt 1845, He was found on the 1851 Census in Banff, > Banffshire, High Street Close, 1861 Census in Alvah, Banffshire at Strath of > Bydock, 1864 at Braco, Aberdour, 1867, New Aberdour, Aberdour, 1871 Census > at Aberdeenshire, Strichen, Fridayhill, 1874 at Savoch, New Deer, 1881 > Census at Aberdeenshire, Methlick, Burnside, 1891 Census at Loch St. > Aberdeen St. Nicholas, 1901 Census at Wales Street, North Aberdeen. He > remained in Aberdeen, Loch Street, until his death. However, it is useful to have some more details of where the relevant people were at various points ... > Copies of BMD Certs for he, his wife, and his children do not refer to the > two place names mentioned by relatives now passed..Family hearsay gave > only the names AUCHNIE BOGS and SMARTIES WELLS in North Aberdeenshire as > family residences. No other info is available to me regarding these > locations. ... but the places that *are* named in BMDs might also hold clues ... Gavin Bell

Hi, Laura, I saw your post on aberdeen-request@rootsweb.com re: the Kerrs of Lonmay, Aberdeenshire, Scotland! My ancestors Kerr were from Lonmay! My American progenitor grandfather Kerr -- Robert Kerr -- was born in Lonmay on 10 Dec 1726 to Gustavus & Janet (Allen) Kerr. He emigrated to Pennsylvania from Scotland where he married Elizabeth Bailey. They later moved to Augusta County, Virginia, where Robert died on 22 Jan 1808. I would be very interested in learning more about your Kerr lineage and in finding out if we are "related"! Margaret Kerr Beckwith Elkins, West Virginia margbeckwith@verizon.net

There is a guide in the Lighthouse Museum, Jim Oliver who was a lighthouse keeper there and a local man, now in his 70's. Jim is a font of information and if he doesn't know the answer he will find it for you. You can email the Lighthouse museum if you wish or I have some connections with it and can do it for you if you prefer. Regards Isobel -----Original Message----- From: aberdeen-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aberdeen-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Gavin Bell Sent: 22 November 2009 11:10 To: aberdeen@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] Kinnaird Castle goldie and Lido Doratti wrote: > What are we talking about here...Kinnairdy Castle or something else...... Something else. There is a Kinairdy Castle (generally spelled with just one "n") in the parish of Marnoch, Banffshire, and there are various "Kinnairds" elsewhere: there is an entire parish of that name in Perthshire, and elsewhere in Perthshire there are a "mansion" in the parish of Little Dunkeld and a "hamlet" in the parish of Moulin. There is also a "Kinnaird Castle" in Farnell parish, Forfarshire, and a "Kinnaird House" in the parish of Larbert, Stirlingshire. But as the original enquirer specified "Kinnaird Castle, Fraserburgh", it would be safe to assume that he meant none of the above, bat rather (as Ken has reported) what rather incongruously became the Kinnaird Head Lighthouse, now the Museum of Scottish lighthouses: http://www.lighthousemuseum.org.uk/ Incidentally, Kinairdy (Marnoch, Banffshire) is recorded in the "Ordnance Gazetteer of Scotland" as "An ancient castellated mansion ... belonging to the Crichtons of Frendraught, from whom it passed to the Earls of Fife" and not to the "Innes Clan" for whom you claim it. Gavin Bell ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello List Members; I may have sent a partial note to the List as I pressed a key by mistake and my note disappeared! Here is the complete note: Thank you to Gavin and Ray for their replies. Unfortunately, I have only "Family Lore" to refer to. What I do know which may be helpful is that our grgrgrandfather was born in Banff, Banffshire abt 1845, He was found on the 1851 Census in Banff, Banffshire, High Street Close, 1861 Census in Alvah, Banffshire at Strath of Bydock, 1864 at Braco, Aberdour, 1867, New Aberdour, Aberdour, 1871 Census at Aberdeenshire, Strichen, Fridayhill, 1874 at Savoch, New Deer, 1881 Census at Aberdeenshire, Methlick, Burnside, 1891 Census at Loch St. Aberdeen St. Nicholas, 1901 Census at Wales Street, North Aberdeen. He remained in Aberdeen, Loch Street, until his death. Copies of BMD Certs for he, his wife, and his children do not refer to the two place names mentioned by relatives now passed..Family hearsay gave only the names AUCHNIE BOGS and SMARTIES WELLS in North Aberdeenshire as family residences. No other info is available to me regarding these locations. Ruth in Canada.

Hi Ray; Thank you so much for your reply! I am interested in the locale in Methlick as the family was there in 1881. I have sent more details to the List and am HOPING that someone recognizes the names in one of the areas where our family located. Ruth. On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 6:36 AM, Ray Hennessy <ray@whatsinaname.net> wrote: > 2009/11/22 RUTH DUNNE <abersyl@gmail.com> wrote: > [slightly edited] > > > Has anyone any knowledge of a these place names in Aberdeenshire: North > > ... Auchnie Bogs and / or Smarties Wells. This would be prior to 1855. I > am > > trying to find the locale in Aberdeenshire . This is from Family Lore > which > > is sometimes almost accurate >grin. I have tried unsuccessfully to find a > > reference on Google / Genuki > > > _____________________________________________ > > Hi Ruth > > Do you have any further information such as the name [or something like it] > of a parish? Do the family sources have ancestors born &/or married in > Aberdeenshire who could be found on the OPRs. > > I used the GENUKI Gazetteer at > http://www.genuki.org.uk/cgi-bin/gaz, using the "word containing" feature > for "bogs" and for "wells" in Aberdeenshire. > > There is a place called "North Arnie Bogs" [which is what I assumed your > post meant] in Methlick parish. It is at NJ864397 [see > http://bit.ly/NArnybogs, set the zoom control to level 4 (1:50,000)]. > This > is most probably the place your family source means. > > I couldn't find anything like "Smarties Wells" although ther are a couple > of > places a bit [not very] similar: > "Stillswells" in New Deer [next-door parish to Methlick]; > "Sundayswells" in Kincarding O'Neil [much further away]. > > The GENUKI Gazetteer for Aberdeenshire is based on a modern map analysed > some while ago and is not exhaustive. However, I have a full list of > place-names on the 1896 and 2002 maps for Methlick and there is nothing > like > it there - no "Wells" at all. > > As Gavin suggests, if you have any further information it might help us to > help you! > > -- > Best wishes > > Ray > > ********************************************************** > >From Ray Hennessy > Forenames website: www.whatsinaname.net > Preferred Email address: ray@whatsinaname.net > Hints for Scotland's People at http://bit.ly/WIAN-SCP > ********************************************************** > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello List Members' In reply to Gavin's query regarding the source of the placenames, I have, unfortunately, only ''family lore". What I do know is that our grgrgrandfather was born in Banff, Banffshire abt 1845, he was found on the 1851 Census in Banff, he was found on the 1861 Census in Alvah, Banffshiire at Strath of BYCOCK, He married atg bon the 1871 Census in Strichen, Aberdeenshire, Fridayhill, 1881 Census Burnside, Methlick, 1891 Census at Aberdeen, St. Nicholas,

Dave - VERY cool, thanks for the link. We can only hope that someone geekier than I (and I'm no slouch) takes the time to write to those extensible APIs. It's a small subset of the population though -- those who have the geek in them tend to be younger, and those who have the gene-quest in them tend to be older, and the intersection set is small. We can but hope! Regards - Glen C. Bodie Web http://Bodie.CA Home mailto:glen@glenbodie.com or mailto:Glen.Bodie@gmail.com Cell mailto:TyTN@Bodie.ca (no attachments) Snail Mail: 76 Strathcona Ave, Toronto, Ontario, Canada M4J 1G8 -----Original Message----- Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:43:34 -0500 From: i_am_distracted@sympatico.ca Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] Online collaborative family tree tools To: aberdeen@rootsweb.com Hi Suzanne, This is a most interesting topic. I recently received an email from Google introducing a new service/program called Google Wave. It's still in the development stages but it promises to allow what you would like in your perfect world. It needs genealogists who are proficient at writing code to develop the extensions that would be specific to family history research. I was quite excited by the possibilities for us in our avocation. To find out more follow this link. http://wave.google.com/help/wave/about.html Cheers, David Smith