I am once again asking if anyone has any information on James JAFFRAY. His information is as follows. I have been unable to break through this brick wall for years, and it would be great if this year is the one to knock it down. I do have his descendants, but it is the ancestors that are the problem. If you have any suggestions of WHERE I should be looking that I haven't, please let me know. If anyone is willing to do a look up I would appreciate that also. Thanks Sharon Lamb Aldergrove, B.C. Canada 1. JAMES **1 JAFFRAY was born Abt. 1831 in Strichen, Aberdeenshire, Scotland, and died Bef. 1938 in Strichen, Aberdeenshire, Scotland. He met ANN[E] ** CRAIB 1864 in Strichen, Aberdeenshire, Scotland (Source: Robert Dunbar,), daughter of JAMES CRAIB and AMELIA BREBNER/BREMNER. She was born 16 Oct 1828 in Strichen, Aberdeenshire, Scotland (Source: igi no copy made), and died Bef. 1928 in Scotland. More About JAMES ** JAFFRAY: Occupation: 1893, Farmer (Source: Bob of Gold Coast Australia) More About ANN[E] ** CRAIB: Census - England: 1851, Unmarried, House Servant, Aberdeenshire (Source: 1851 Scottish census) Christening: 16 Oct 1828, Strichen, Aberdeenshire, Scotland Occupation: 1893, Domestic Servant (Source: Bob of Gold Coast Australia) More About JAMES JAFFRAY and ANN[E] CRAIB: Partners: 1864, Strichen, Aberdeenshire, Scotland (Source: Robert Dunbar,) Child of JAMES JAFFRAY and ANN[E] CRAIB is: 2. I. JAMES [I]** CRAIB2 JAFFRAY, b. 28 Dec 1864, Strichen, Aberdeenshire, Scotland; d. 24 Apr 1934, Strichen, Aberdeenshire, Scotland. his parents weren't married at the time of his birth so his birth name was JAMES CRAIB, which was later changed to James CRAIB JAFFRAY. I have a copy of his birth certificate to show/prove this.

Goldie - leaving aside for a moment the fact that I have absolutely no relevant knowledge of this question .... I do have a conceivable story that makes sense of what you described (I think). How about Jemima is not "helping out" her sister, the child does not live there, but just happened to be there visiting aunt and grandparents for a few days and therefore was enumerated there. And the reason for using the common surname in that household was that no one thought it was important enough to make it clear to the census taker about the relationship of the child, or maybe they were illiterate and had no idea what he wrote down. No need to try to for some complicated explanation when simple reasons can work too! Regards - Glen C. Bodie Web http://Bodie.CA Home mailto:glen@glenbodie.com or mailto:Glen.Bodie@gmail.com Cell mailto:TyTN@Bodie.ca (no attachments) Snail Mail: 76 Strathcona Ave, Toronto, Ontario, Canada M4J 1G8 -----Original Message----- Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 15:10:14 -0800 From: "goldie and Lido Doratti" <lidogold2@shaw.ca> Subject: [ABERDEEN] Picking some brains here... To: <aberdeen@rootsweb.com> What would be the chances, do you suppose, of a female on the 1901 census who was married being listed under her maiden name? I have a Duthie in Cruden with his sister-in-law Eliz Walker who is given as 'Domestic Housekeeping', and 2 of John's daughters. In Peterhead I have the parents to Eliz Walker, then a Walker, Jemima also a Domestic servant (I know she belongs to the family) and another Duthie child given as Granddaughter. I dislike the word assume.........but it looks like Jemima is at home with her parents and has taken a child with her, while her sister keeps house in Cruden with their other 2 children. I can understand the sisters helping out a sister so that makes sense to me. But, again, why is she showing up as WALKER, not Duthie? Was it still done in 1901? Bear with me, I'm coming down the home stretch here with the Walkers.....Then I'm going undercover for a month or more....I hope. Goldie

Kathleen asked: Would everyone in Scotland be on the 1841 census, or would some persons be missed for whatever reason? ------ Kathleen - almost everyone should be covered, except those out of touch, such as fisherman at sea (Many coastal census returns have notes mentioning fishermen being absent). However, "missing" may not mean not present! If you are searching an index, the person you seek may be indexed under a misread name. I was looking for a lawyer in Wick, a local worthy, who had to be present in a particular census, but the index did not reveal him. As I knew his place of residence, I went through the microfilm, and he was there - the handwriting of the enumerator was apalling, and the name wrongly indexed. Gordon.

Thankyou Gavin, I suppose I should have mentioned that it was family oral history which put the Birth at Woodside. William MURRAY Bap 7 April 1801, at Skene, ( assume to be Banffshire ), died 1879 38 North Prioadford , ( ? spelling), Old Machar, was the father of William Duff MURRAY. Old Machar also became part of family oral history. William Murray 1861 was age 58 years, ( apparently Baptised 1801,) living 233 Stricket Road, ? Aberdeen City. His son, William Duff MURRAY born 1836, subsequently named his farm in the Bay Of Islands near Matauri Bay , New Zealand, as Woodside Farm. he died 5 December 1886 at Woodside Farm. Thankyou & I will check my paper files, Mary -----Original Message----- From: aberdeen-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aberdeen-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Gavin Bell Sent: Thursday, 26 November 2009 10:00 p.m. To: aberdeen@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] Duff MURRAY Mary Legarth wrote: > The MURRAY family that I research, has William Duff MURRAY Baptised / Born > 1836 Woodside, Aberdeen , Scotland, I was a little surprised to see a birth/baptism shown as being recorded in "Woodside" in 1836, because at that date, it was part of the parish of Old Machar, only becoming a 'quoad sacra' parish in 1862 (by which time registration of births, deaths and marriages had passed to the civil Registrar). So I checked the IGI, and find that, while the birth of a William Duff Murray is indeed recorded on 9th April 1836, it is recorded as happening in "Aberdeen" (which was also not, at that date, the name of a parish) and that the entry is marked: "Record submitted after 1991 by a member of the LDS Church. No additional information is available." Now, it is quite possible for there to be documentary evidence for a birth/baptism that is independent of the Old parish Registers - but unless you know what that evidence is, I would have serious doubts about the accuracy of the claimed date and place of birth for William. Gavin Bell

Hi I think the Royal Hibernian is in Dublin. The names appear to be standard on all service records and unless there are dates then your relative wouldn't have gone. Andy ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: downie karen <auldreekie2@yahoo.co.uk> To: ABERDEEN@rootsweb.com Sent: Wed, 25 November, 2009 23:00:55 Subject: Help Hello Everyone, I was wondering if someone can help me. I have my Great Granddad Richard Low army service records when he was in the Gordon Highlander's. Now it say's he was Educated at Royal Military Asylum and Royal Hibernian Military School, are they places in Aberdeen ? Hope some one can help with this puzzle, I have had a look on the web, but no joy. Thank You for any help Karen ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks Ray, here is what I have....... 1901 Census Cruden ABD address 19 Harbour St Duthie John head, age 32 abt 1869 b Cruden Abd Cooper Walker Elizabeth sister in law age 18 abt 1883 b Peterhead Abd Domestic Housekeeping Duthie Barbara A dau age 7 abt 1894 Cruden Abd Scholar Duthie Jane dau age 2 abat 1899 b Peterhead Abd **** 1901 Census Scotland Peterhead Abd Low Street No 13 Walker George head age 58 abut 1843 b Peterhead Abd, fisherman Walker Barbara wife age 58 abt 1843 b Peterhead, Abd Walker Jemima dau age 25 b abt 1876 b Peterhead, Abd,Domestic servant Duthie Christine granddau age 4 abt 1897 b Cruden, Abd **** For a fact I know that Elizabeth and Jemima are daughters of George and Barbara Walker, but I don't understand this.......why is she still a Walker if she was married to Duthie.......Out of the Walker family Jemima is the only likely candidate......others are dead, or too young. I can't get this thru my thick skull, I'm missing something and not thinking outside the box here. I know I can go to SP and get the answer but I've blown so many $$ doing this, I thought maybe someone could see something I can't. And DON'T anyone spend money on this on my behalf........it can stay the way it is. It just struck me as odd.. Thanks for the input, Goldie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Hennessy" <ray7033@googlemail.com> To: <aberdeen@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 5:03 PM Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] Picking some brains here... Hi Goldie I'm not clear about the relationships in this scenario. There seem to be two possibilities: 1. If John was married to a sister - now deceased - of Elizabeth & Jemima, then the relationships all work: Elizabeth is housekeeping for her sister's widower and one of his daughters is staying with the grandparents on Census night. 2. You haven't given us the declared married status of John, Elizabeth or Jemima. Are you saying that Jemima is married to John DUTHIE? [do you *know* this?] If this is the point of the query then it is likely that the father, when making the return, either habitually used Jemima's maiden name or didn't put a name in. If he just wrote [or said] "daughter" the enumerator might easily have assumed her surname to be the same as the father's. Also, it would be quite possible for Elizabeth to be housekeeping at her sister's - probably because three children can be a handful and they might need extra help to bring in income, depending on John's occupation. As they say, "there's many a slip..." and enumerators were probably not very well paid and did everything in a hurry while also having a day job. HTH Ray ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Kathleen Ogg-Moss wrote: > Would everyone in Scotland be on the 1841 census, or would some persons be > missed for whatever reason? The rules for the Census have been the same ever since 1841. The basic idea is that only those people who were *actually* in a house on Census Night (usually Sunday to Monday) are included. People who normally lived there, but were temporarily absent for some reason, should *not* be included at that address. If they were at some other address (say visiting relatives, or working away from home) then they *should* be included at that address. Some people were probably missed. Some Enumerators faithfully tramped the roads on Census night looking for vagrants sleeping in the open, or in barns and sheds, but it seems likely that some were missed. And while the crews of boats on rivers or in port would probably be counted, anyone at sea on Census night might also be missed. And, of course, simple human fallibility means that, from time to time, and in some place or another, someone might have been missed. And ultimately, the whole exercise depended on the honesty and accuracy of the individual householder. Gavin Bell

The MURRAY family that I research, has William Duff MURRAY Baptised / Born 1836 Woodside, Aberdeen , Scotland, his Brother James Duff MURRAY Bap / Born c 1839, ? Aberdeenshire . After emigrating to New Zealand, one of the sons of William was also James Duff Murray . No sign at all of a Duff connection, in my research, except for possibly a local land owner, but, unable to find now exactly where the Duff name showed , I think it was Banffshire . My own Grandfather ( different line ), Alfred Simpson DICK, Born 1883, Toucher, (near Cuminestown,) Monquhitter Parish, Aberdeenshire , Baptised in the Free Church, where the Minister was a Rev SIMPSON. Mary -----Original Message----- From: aberdeen-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aberdeen-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Kathleen Ogg-Moss Sent: Thursday, 26 November 2009 7:00 a.m. To: Aberdeen List Subject: [ABERDEEN] Charles Cordiner Kerr Hi, Just because there is no Cordiner is this person's ancestry doesn't mean the name is wrong. There is a James Duff Ogg, born in Aberdeenshire (10/01/1823). There are no Duffs in the Ogg family (my husband's family).. James was named for the person who owned the estate the Ogg croft was on. There is a Robert Gardner Duff born in Perthshire on 05/09/1841. There is no Gardner ancrestry in the Duff family (my family).. We still haven't found where the Gardner came from. So the middle name does not necessarily have to be in the family ancestry. Kathy ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message __________ NOD32 4634 (20091124) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com

Hi Howard; Thank you for the reference, I'll have a look on the map. Ruth. On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 5:01 AM, Howard Geddes < hw_02-lst-abn@hwg59lists.waitrose.com> wrote: > Re Smarties Wells: how about Sauchie Wells - being a variation on > Sauchwells > (aka Saughwells) in Bellie, which could be construed as "Aberdeenshire > North". > Howard > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

What would be the chances, do you suppose, of a female on the 1901 census who was married being listed under her maiden name? I have a Duthie in Cruden with his sister-in-law Eliz Walker who is given as 'Domestic Housekeeping', and 2 of John's daughters. In Peterhead I have the parents to Eliz Walker, then a Walker, Jemima also a Domestic servant (I know she belongs to the family) and another Duthie child given as Granddaughter. I dislike the word assume.........but it looks like Jemima is at home with her parents and has taken a child with her, while her sister keeps house in Cruden with their other 2 children. I can understand the siters helping out a sister so that makes sense to me. But, again, why is she showing up as WALKER, not Duthie? Was it still done in 1901? Bear with me, I'm coming down the home stretch here with the Walkers.....Then I'm going undercover for a month or more....I hope. Goldie

2009/11/26 ann zeman <annzeman@msn.com> wrote: Has anyone yet proclaimed Gavin Bell a Living National Treasure? I hereby > do. > Never ask for whom the Bell tolls? It tolls for everyone!! R

Would everyone in Scotland be on the 1841 census, or would some persons be missed for whatever reason? Thanks

I'll second the motion........Goldie ----- Original Message ----- From: "ann zeman" <annzeman@msn.com> To: <aberdeen@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 6:02 AM Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] a question > Has anyone yet proclaimed Gavin Bell a Living National Treasure? I hereby > do. > Ann Zeman > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gavin Bell" <g.bell@which.net> > To: <aberdeen@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 12:39 AM > Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] a question > > >> Ray Hennessy wrote: >> >> >... >> > So much to do so little time!! >> >> >> Yes, Cecil. >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

----- Forwarded Message ---- From: downie karen <auldreekie2@yahoo.co.uk> To: ABERDEEN@rootsweb.com Sent: Wed, 25 November, 2009 23:00:55 Subject: Help Hello Everyone, I was wondering if someone can help me. I have my Great Granddad Richard Low army service records when he was in the Gordon Highlander's. Now it say's he was Educated at Royal Military Asylum and Royal Hibernian Military School, are they places in Aberdeen ? Hope some one can help with this puzzle, I have had a look on the web, but no joy. Thank You for any help Karen

Mary Legarth wrote: > Thankyou Gavin, > I suppose I should have mentioned that it was family oral history which put > the Birth at Woodside. Fair enough. > William MURRAY Bap 7 April 1801, at Skene, ( assume to be Banffshire ), Why Banffshire? Ray Hennessy and I have done a pretty detailed survey of placenames in Banffshire, and there is no instnce of "Skene" or anything much like it in the county. However, there is a parish of Skene in Aberdeenshire, roughly 9 miles west of Aberdeen. > died 1879 38 North Prioadford , ( ? spelling), North Broadford. An earlier name for the western part of what later became George Street. Old Machar, was the father of > William Duff MURRAY. > Old Machar also became part of family oral history. > William Murray 1861 was age 58 years, ( apparently Baptised 1801,) living > 233 Stricket Road, ? Aberdeen City. I think that is probably "Stocket Road". The "Stocket Forest" (to the north-west of the town) was part of the lands gifted to the town by Robert the Bruce, and the name persists in today's "Midstocket Road". On 19th century maps, you will also find the "High Stocket" and "Low Stocket" roads, names which are now disused. These all lie in the arc of country to the north and west of St Nicholas, the ancient town parish of Aberdeen, and are in the parish of Old Machar, where much of the 19th century expansion of the city took place. Gavin Bell

Mary Legarth wrote: > The MURRAY family that I research, has William Duff MURRAY Baptised / Born > 1836 Woodside, Aberdeen , Scotland, I was a little surprised to see a birth/baptism shown as being recorded in "Woodside" in 1836, because at that date, it was part of the parish of Old Machar, only becoming a 'quoad sacra' parish in 1862 (by which time registration of births, deaths and marriages had passed to the civil Registrar). So I checked the IGI, and find that, while the birth of a William Duff Murray is indeed recorded on 9th April 1836, it is recorded as happening in "Aberdeen" (which was also not, at that date, the name of a parish) and that the entry is marked: "Record submitted after 1991 by a member of the LDS Church. No additional information is available." Now, it is quite possible for there to be documentary evidence for a birth/baptism that is independent of the Old parish Registers - but unless you know what that evidence is, I would have serious doubts about the accuracy of the claimed date and place of birth for William. Gavin Bell

Ray Hennessy wrote: >... > So much to do so little time!! Yes, Cecil.

Has anyone yet proclaimed Gavin Bell a Living National Treasure? I hereby do. Ann Zeman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gavin Bell" <g.bell@which.net> To: <aberdeen@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 12:39 AM Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] a question > Ray Hennessy wrote: > > >... > > So much to do so little time!! > > > Yes, Cecil. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

2009/11/25 Gavin Bell <g.bell@which.net> > Ray Hennessy wrote: > > > Are you sure? There is a "Signature" at the end of my postings which > includes all the website & email URLs. Is it "hidden" on your email > package? > > It is just about there - but it is "greyed-out" . > > I also tend to overlook the stuff that gets appended to people's messages, > like the "do not read this if it wasn't sent to you" guff that gets tagged > on to mail from public bodies. You could argue that this was my problem, > but I doubt if I am the only Lister to do this - I think your message would > get through better if the URL was included in the body of the message. True but then I'd have to type it up every time and I can't be arsed. The alternative would be to have it in a doc and copy it in each time. In general the trails are not important but I specifically drew attention to that one. To cater for this in future I'll maybe not refer to the Signature area but add the link where it matters. So much to do so little time!! -- Best wishes Ray ********************************************************** >From Ray Hennessy Forenames website: www.whatsinaname.net Preferred Email address: ray@whatsinaname.net Hints for Scotland's People at http://bit.ly/WIAN-SCP **********************************************************

Agreed, But I was hoping there was a link to a paternal grandmother who is unknown. It was worth a try! I have the lines all around this one back into the 1700s and 1600s... this one is stuck! Well it will give me something to look into over the holidays.... Laura (who is getting ready to make a Turkey, Ham and bunch of other food for Thanksgiving here tomorrow.... Hope everyone on the list has a great Thanksgiving no matter what country you live in! I am Thankful for the people on this list! Laura > [Original Message] > From: Kathleen Ogg-Moss <koggmoss@gmail.com> > To: Aberdeen List <aberdeen@rootsweb.com> > Date: 11/25/2009 12:00:25 PM > Subject: [ABERDEEN] Charles Cordiner Kerr > > Hi, > > Just because there is no Cordiner is this person's ancestry doesn't mean > the name is wrong. There is a James Duff Ogg, born in Aberdeenshire > (10/01/1823). There are no Duffs in the Ogg family (my husband's family).. > James was named for the person who owned the estate the Ogg croft was on. > There is a Robert Gardner Duff born in Perthshire on 05/09/1841. There is > no Gardner ancrestry in the Duff family (my family).. We still haven't > found where the Gardner came from. > > So the middle name does not necessarily have to be in the family ancestry. > > Kathy > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message