Hello listers I know this question is not correct for the Aberdeen list, but having found a family that I am looking for on FreeCen for the 1841 census as follows, I feel that the name of James aged 3 may have been incorrectly transcribed and should be Jane, and would be very grateful if a lister may be able to check this for me. Piece: SCT1841/102 Place: Kingussie & Insh -Inverness-shire Enumeration District: 4 Civil Parish: Kingussie Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: - Folio: 4 Page: 2 Address: Newtonmore Thank you for any help. Joan -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 566 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message

in 1861 Census James Scott had a business he shared with ?? Leslie. employing 10men and 5 boys. Fish Curer in Peterhead.  In 1881 James Scott's 2 sons James and John both worked in the business. employing 4 men and 1boy.   James Scott's youngest son was named William Leslie Scott I am thinking perhaps he was named after his father's business partner. Is there any where I can find out more of this business? thank you Lorraine

Joan, What is the child's surname. Catherine ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joan Birtles" <joanbirtles@bigpond.com> To: <ABERDEEN@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 8:09 PM Subject: [ABERDEEN] 1841 census > Hello listers > > I know this question is not correct for the Aberdeen list, but having > found > a family that I am looking for on FreeCen for the 1841 census as follows, > I > feel that the name of James aged 3 may have been incorrectly transcribed > and > should be Jane, and would be very grateful if a lister may be able to > check > this for me. > > Piece: SCT1841/102 Place: Kingussie & Insh -Inverness-shire Enumeration > District: 4 > Civil Parish: Kingussie Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: - > Folio: 4 Page: 2 > Address: Newtonmore > > Thank you for any help. > > Joan > > > > -- > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. > We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. > SPAMfighter has removed 566 of my spam emails to date. > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > The Professional version does not have this message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.722 / Virus Database: 270.14.122/2590 - Release Date: 12/28/09 15:16:00

Hello, This link might be useful to some of you. Bill Victorian Legislation: a Timeline Marjie Bloy<http://www.victorianweb.org/misc/bloy.html>, Ph.D. Senior Research Fellow, National University of Singapore. http://www.victorianweb.org/history/legistl.html

Thanks to everyone who responded! It is fun to find out how my ancestors celebrated various holidays. Sounds like New Years (Hogmanay) is a big deal. So I am posting some links I found about it. We will have a few friends over and as you know by my earlier postings about Christmas... we will be eating! And Drinking! We also play games and just have a lot of good company and conversation. http://www.aboutaberdeen.com/hogmanayaberdeen.php http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hogmanay http://www.rampantscotland.com/know/blknow12.htm http://www.hogmanay.net/ http://www.aberdeencity.gov.uk/home/home.asp Laura > [Original Message] > From: Guy Etchells <guy.etchells@virgin.net> > To: <aberdeen@rootsweb.com> > Date: 12/28/2009 11:27:45 AM > Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] Scottish Christmas Traditions > > wrentony@ntlworld.com wrote: > > The main Scottish Christmas tradition is almost to ignore it. Christmas was a working day in my youth; I did get presents, though. I recall that the pubs were closed on Christmas day in Edinburgh in the 1950's - can't think why! > > > > Tony > > > > > Yes, in the village where I grew up Christmas was a working day with all > the shops open. > > There was a tradition of carol singing and also a collection of coal > which was distributed to the poor. > Cheers > Guy > > -- > http://freespace.virgin.net/guy.etchells/ The site that gives you facts not promises > http://anguline.co.uk/ Old and rare books on CD > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello friends and cousins on the Aberdeen list. I have not found an equivalent list for folks for Edinburgh. I have a friend who is from the Durham line which started in Forfar, Angus and has family spread throughout Scotland. His most recent (read that as mid 1800s) line came from Edinburgh. I have his father John Durham getting married to Isabel Murray whose father was listed as a farmer on their marriage record from Scotland's People from Glenbervie (Kinkardineshire). They married in 1795. I would love to be able to find out the parents for John Durham. I have some good possibilities. But I am wondering if anyone on this list has ties to this family? If so, can you please contact me so we can compare notes? Since this is not Aberdeenshire specific, off list is fine... but there are so many knowledgeable and helpful people on this list, I thought I'd give this posting a try! Happy New Year to all! Laura

I have only one observation to make: Many marriages (in the OPRs) were celebrated on 25th December, which indicates that the people involved were not working on that day. As a 5th year school pupil (half a century ago), I worked for the Post Office as a temporary postman, and my duties included working on Christmas Day - but the event also meant that the tips were much more in evidence! Gordon.

Andrew McKenzie wrote: > Dear listers > > Having found the Devon-L very useful, it was great to see there was also one > for Aberdeen. I wonder if anyone might be able to help. My 3x Great > Grandparents, Simon McKenzie and Christian Mitchell, were married in July > 1835 in Tullynessle. Simon McKenzie was described on the church record as > 'in the Parish of Tough, and Christian Mitchell, of this Parish, were > married'. They had 2 children, Mary McKenzie, born 1835 (yes it would > appear she was conceived out of wedlock) and a son, Simon McKenzie, born in > 1837. However, by the time of the 1841 census, both children were living > with their maternal Grandmother. On the 1851 census, they are living with > their aunt and uncle. On their daughters marriage certificate in 1857, both > parents were listed as deceased. I can only presume they both died between > 1837 and 1857. > > I can find NO record of their death, nothing at all, and nor can another > cousin who has been researching the family. Christian was born in 1807 in > Tullynessle, we can find no birth for Simon. > > Would anyone know anything of this family or would anyone have any ideas as > to why no death records can be found, and any ideas on where I might do > next?? The Registrar General for Scotland, with whom, under the legislation setting up civil registration, all pre-1855 Registers were deposited, produced a detailed report on these which was published in 1872, and this can explain many of the gaps we find in the record. The notes for the parish of Tough suggest that, in general terms, the Registers of the parish were not very methodically kept, with many "irregular" entries being made some time after the events they record, and consequently being at the wrong place in the Register. It is also specifically stated that there were "only two entries Aug 1805- March 1807" which sounds as if it could well cover the time of Simon's birth. The same notes further make clear that there were never any death records for Tullynessle. This is a not unusual situation. The parishes of the Kirk of Scotland were under a theoretical (but not very efficiently-policed) obligation to keep Registers of Baptism and Marriage, but there was no equivalent obligation to record deaths. Some parishes maintained records of payments for the use of the Mortcloth, but the Registrar General was empowered to impound these also, so if he listed no kind of death records for Tullynessle, then we can be fairly sure they never existed. There are death records for Tough, with one sequence covering 1834-54. The Registrar notes that "Many of the entries in this Record contain information respecting the history and connections of the deceeased persons ..." so I should be inclined to check whether there is any mention of Simon's death there - people did sometimes "go home" to be buried. Incidentally, while I don't think it helps with the current question, you may, in tracing Christian's family, fall foul of the rather complicated history of Tullynessle as a parish. It was, in fact, one of a group of 4 parishes which seem to have played a kind of musical chairs, the other three being Auchindoir, Forbes and Kearn. Until the early 1800s, Forbes and Kearn formed a single parish, but at some date between 1808 and 1811 that union was dissolved, with Kearn joining Auchindoir, and Forbes joining Tullynessle. Most of the pre-1808/11 records from Forbes and Kearn seem to have ended up with Tullynessle, but it means that there are, within the "Tullynessle" records, overlapping Registers for (a) Tullynessle proper, (b) Forbes and Kearn and (c) Tullynessle and Forbes. Gavin Bell

I Remember my husband had to work Christmas Day in the ealy 1960's. we woke our three children early so he could watch them opening thier presents before  he went to work. regards Lorraine ________________________________ From: Gavin Bell <g.bell@which.net> To: Ron and Laura Bozzay <rbozzay@earthlink.net>; aberdeen@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, 28 December, 2009 10:24:19 Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] Scottish Christmas Traditions Ron and Laura Bozzay wrote: > ... > > I would also like to know of any Scottish Christmas traditions.  I > try to honor each of my lines by incorporting something traditional > to each country at Christmas. (Some of my extended French / German > families actually invented Christmas ornaments, the Greiner and > Mueller families who lived in both Meisenthal France and Lauscha > Germany). > > I made Scotch Shortbread from a recipe my cousin who was born in > Scotland sent me. But I would like to know more.  From reading I have > done it sounds like Christmas was almost outlawed for a while.  I > also have a CD of Celtic Yuletide music. A bit late to help your Christmas this year (I was away from home for mine) but you are on the right track in supposing that Christmas was outlawed - but there was no "almost" about it! At the Reformation (which happened rather suddenly in Scotland, in 1560) the Calvinists abolished Christmas, along with much else, as blasphemous, or idolatrous, or popish (or any of the above), and while the first strict puritanism faded over time, it had become a custom in Scotland NOT to observe Christmas.  My earliest memories are of a "modern" Christmas, but I believe that even at that time, Christmas Day was not an official holiday in Scotland, and that at least some people still went to work on 25th December. Gavin Bell ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear listers Having found the Devon-L very useful, it was great to see there was also one for Aberdeen. I wonder if anyone might be able to help. My 3x Great Grandparents, Simon McKenzie and Christian Mitchell, were married in July 1835 in Tullynessle. Simon McKenzie was described on the church record as 'in the Parish of Tough, and Christian Mitchell, of this Parish, were married'. They had 2 children, Mary McKenzie, born 1835 (yes it would appear she was conceived out of wedlock) and a son, Simon McKenzie, born in 1837. However, by the time of the 1841 census, both children were living with their maternal Grandmother. On the 1851 census, they are living with their aunt and uncle. On their daughters marriage certificate in 1857, both parents were listed as deceased. I can only presume they both died between 1837 and 1857. I can find NO record of their death, nothing at all, and nor can another cousin who has been researching the family. Christian was born in 1807 in Tullynessle, we can find no birth for Simon. Would anyone know anything of this family or would anyone have any ideas as to why no death records can be found, and any ideas on where I might do next?? Looking forward in anticipation Thanks Andrew McKenzie in Devon.

Joan Birtles wrote: > Hello listers > > I know this question is not correct for the Aberdeen list, but having found > a family that I am looking for on FreeCen for the 1841 census as follows, I > feel that the name of James aged 3 may have been incorrectly transcribed and > should be Jane, and would be very grateful if a lister may be able to check > this for me. > > Piece: SCT1841/102 Place: Kingussie & Insh -Inverness-shire Enumeration > District: 4 > Civil Parish: Kingussie Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: - > Folio: 4 Page: 2 > Address: Newtonmore > > Thank you for any help. You can search for him/her and check an image of the original Census enumeration on Scotlandspeople. Gavin Bell

Bill Wood wrote: > This link might be useful to some of you. > > Bill > > Victorian Legislation: a Timeline Marjie Bloy, > Ph.D. Senior Research Fellow, National University of Singapore. > http://www.victorianweb.org/misc/bloy.html > http://www.victorianweb.org/history/legistl.html Fine as far as it goes - but as it appears to have grown out of a site whose overall title is "A Web of *English* History" (http://www.historyhome.co.uk/) it is of limited value to students of family history in Scotland. For example: "Victorian Legislation: a Timeline" (the second link above) mentions the 1834 Poor Law Amendment Act which "... was responsible for the establishment of workhouses throughout the country". Which is true - in England. But this law did not apply in Scotland. The equivalent piece of legislation north of the border (which is not even mentioned in the "Timeline") was the 1845 Poor Law Amendment (Scotland)Act. This set up a system almost diametrically opposed to the English Workhouse system, by putting responsibility for poor relief in the hand of independent Parochial Boards. The result was that, even in those larger towns which had a Poorhouse, the majority of assistance was in the form of "outdoor relief", ie the pauper received assistance "in the community", rather than in institutions. And the spin-off for family historians is that much (although sadly not all) of the Parochial Board records have supplied, and can give valuable information on the lives of paupers and their families. Another omission from the "Timeline" is the legislation (in 1854, 1855 and 1860) which set up the system of civil registration in Scotland on a rather different (and, to the family historian, more useful) basis than the equivalent in England. Gavin Bell

Jeanette McRobb wrote: > ... > I think you are asking how do you find out the name of the parish > associated with the first number in the sequence. I am sure there are > many ways to find this out, but an easy way is to check out the > following website which details all the parishes, with their > associated numbers. > > http://scotsfamily.com/parish.htm A more detailed list, which shows which RDs/EDs changed and combined, is actually available on the Scotlandspeople site, at: http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/files2/family-records/registration-districts-from-1855.pdf If you look up "Aberdeen" on the "scotsfamily" site, you will find just a single entry. Look up "Aberdeen" on the scotlandspeople page and you get 8, plus further entries for "St Nicholas" (the original town parish of Aberdeen) "Old Machar" (site of most of the 19th-century development of Aberdeen) and entries showing when the once separate Parishes/RDs of Nigg and Newhills became incorporated (for Registration and Census purposes) into Aberdeen. More complications to deal with, but like the man said, "the truth is seldom pure and never simple". Gavin Bell

Ron and Laura Bozzay wrote: > ... > > I would also like to know of any Scottish Christmas traditions. I > try to honor each of my lines by incorporting something traditional > to each country at Christmas. (Some of my extended French / German > families actually invented Christmas ornaments, the Greiner and > Mueller families who lived in both Meisenthal France and Lauscha > Germany). > > I made Scotch Shortbread from a recipe my cousin who was born in > Scotland sent me. But I would like to know more. From reading I have > done it sounds like Christmas was almost outlawed for a while. I > also have a CD of Celtic Yuletide music. A bit late to help your Christmas this year (I was away from home for mine) but you are on the right track in supposing that Christmas was outlawed - but there was no "almost" about it! At the Reformation (which happened rather suddenly in Scotland, in 1560) the Calvinists abolished Christmas, along with much else, as blasphemous, or idolatrous, or popish (or any of the above), and while the first strict puritanism faded over time, it had become a custom in Scotland NOT to observe Christmas. My earliest memories are of a "modern" Christmas, but I believe that even at that time, Christmas Day was not an official holiday in Scotland, and that at least some people still went to work on 25th December. Gavin Bell

wrentony@ntlworld.com wrote: > The main Scottish Christmas tradition is almost to ignore it. Christmas was a working day in my youth; I did get presents, though. I recall that the pubs were closed on Christmas day in Edinburgh in the 1950's - can't think why! > > Tony > > Yes, in the village where I grew up Christmas was a working day with all the shops open. There was a tradition of carol singing and also a collection of coal which was distributed to the poor. Cheers Guy -- http://freespace.virgin.net/guy.etchells/ The site that gives you facts not promises http://anguline.co.uk/ Old and rare books on CD

On 12/27/09, Bill Wood <steamingbill@gmail.com> wrote: > Dave, > > Thanks for the reply .................... how would one figure out the > number 136 if all you have done is accessed it electronically via Scotlands > People - what do you need to see to know the entry number ? > Hi Bill, I think you are asking how do you find out the name of the parish associated with the first number in the sequence. I am sure there are many ways to find this out, but an easy way is to check out the following website which details all the parishes, with their associated numbers. http://scotsfamily.com/parish.htm HTH, Jeanette jeanette.mcrobb@one-name.org Tracing : Bather / Christie / Cowie / Denholm / Duncan / Fear / Hall / Harley / Marshall / McCraw / McGregor / McRobb / Randall / Randle / Shea / Sheldon / Troup

Dave, Thanks for the reply .................... how would one figure out the number 136 if all you have done is accessed it electronically via Scotlands People - what do you need to see to know the entry number ? Bill On Sun, Dec 27, 2009 at 8:20 PM, David Massie <davemassie@btinternet.com>wrote: > Bill Wood wrote: > > > > > SO from the above my full reference would be ................ > > > > ParishNo. : Enumeration No. : Page No. : Parish Name : County Name : 1881 > > 147/00 007/00 014 > > Banff Banffshire ? 1881 > > > > Each parish is given a reference number, which is also a volume number > of the census. So the '147' above is often called 'Vol 147' or "Volume > 147'. > > The enumeration districts within the parish are numbered from 1 onwards, > so we have 'Enumeration District 1,2 etc., often referred to as 'ED 1', > 'ED2', etc > > Each ED has a book assigned to it, which is numbered from page 1 > onwards. Each entry in the enumeration books is also numbered from 1 > onwards. > > You can locate an entry in two different ways: > > 1) By the page number in the enumeration district book: > > 'Vol 147, ED 7, page 14'. > > 2) By the entry in the ED book: > > 'Vol 147, ED7 entry 136' (if, for example, this is the 136th entry in > tge enumeration book). > > You can, of course, write both in your reference: > > 'Vol 147, ED7, page 14, entry 136'. > > All 3 ways will enable someone to find the original entry. If I know the > entry number, I'll use the 3rd way. I'll also add the street address and > county, as a convenience to the reader. > > -- > Regards > Dave > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

The main Scottish Christmas tradition is almost to ignore it. Christmas was a working day in my youth; I did get presents, though. I recall that the pubs were closed on Christmas day in Edinburgh in the 1950's - can't think why! Tony ---- Ron and Laura Bozzay <rbozzay@earthlink.net> wrote: > > First of all, I would like to wish everyone a very Merry Christmas and a Great New Year! May you enjoy time with your families, find time to honor our ancestors with those great family stories, and find peace in your heart! > > I would also like to know of any Scottish Christmas traditions. I try to honor > each of my lines by incorporting something traditional to each country at Christmas. > (Some of my extended French / German families actually invented Christmas ornaments, the Greiner and Mueller families who lived in both Meisenthal France and Lauscha Germany). > > I made Scotch Shortbread from a recipe my cousin who was born in Scotland sent me. But I would like to know more. From reading I have done it sounds like Christmas was almost outlawed for a while. I also have a CD of Celtic Yuletide music. > > What do people on this list do at this time of year? > > Thanks for giving me a cultural education! > > (URLs I found) > > http://www.christmasarchives.com/scotland.html > > http://www.worldofchristmas.net/christmas-world/scotland.html > > http://www.heartoscotland.com/Categories/christmas-in-scotland.htm > > Laura > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

2009/12/27 Bill Wood <steamingbill@gmail.com> wrote: ......... how would one figure out the number 136 if all you have done is > accessed it electronically via Scotlands People - what do you need to see to > know the entry number ? > _______________________________________________ The entry number is in the first column of the image. It starts at 1 for each ED. Incidentally, a minor point of care: the ED numbers are not always consecutively numbered and in some cases a suffix letter has been added. I'm not sure how often these anomolies arise but I've seen them in some parishes. -- Best wishes and good hunting in 2010 Ray ********************************************************** >From Ray Hennessy Forenames website: www.whatsinaname.net Preferred Email address: ray@whatsinaname.net Hints for Scotland's People at http://bit.ly/WIAN-SCP **********************************************************

Hello again, Just found this on Ancestry - slightly useful - doesnt answer all of my previous questions but is a start .......... *How the census forms are organized:* Localities were organized into enumeration districts. These districts were roughly equivalent to parishes, but not always. A description of the district and its boundaries is given at the beginning of each new enumeration district. The returns are generally organized by parish and enumeration district. Each parish has been assigned a “Parish Number”. This number was originally assigned in 1855 when civil registration began being kept. The numbers were assigned in a general north to south, and east to west direction by county. Within each county, numbers were assigned in alphabetical order by parish name. *A full reference for a record in the 1881 census includes: the Parish Number, Enumeration District Number, Entry Number (Page Number), Parish Name, County Name, and the Census Year. * SO from the above my full reference would be ................ ParishNo. : Enumeration No. : Page No. : Parish Name : County Name : 1881 147/00 007/00 014 Banff Banffshire ? 1881 Bill On Sun, Dec 27, 2009 at 11:59 AM, Bill Wood <steamingbill@gmail.com> wrote: > Hello, > > *Understanding Census References* > > This message was prompted by me getting into a right mess on the lost > cousins web site, the demonstration version of the Clooz database and I dont > really know how to properly quote a census result. > > If I want to formally and properly refer to or cite a census result how do > I do it ? From Scotlands People I get the following ......... > > > WOOD, JESSIE ANN (Census 1881 147/00 007/00 014) 146Kb<http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/GROS-DUN-WEB2/viewers/DownloadImageFile.aspx/864715/A1A3C051-5B46-4521-B88D-C459E077AB1D-C1881_147_00_007_000_2_014Z.tif> > > If I wrote down Scotland 1881 147/00 007/00 014 would that enable somebody > to find Jessie Ann Wood in the census ? > > All I can figure out from the above is that she is on page 14 of something > ? > > Is there a web site somewhere that explains what the numbers mean (Folio, > district, page number etc.) and what the hierarchy of an address in a > census is ? > > ie (from the Clooz census form) > > Country - yes I understand this - Scotland > County - Yes I understand this - Aberdeenshire- Banffshire (doesnt exist > any more) > City - yes I understand this - Aberdeen - Edinburgh - Glasgow > Town - starting to get confused here - when does a town become a city - > Banff - Macduff - Portsoy - Portknockie > Parish / Township - well and truly confused - Difference between Township > and Town ? A parish was a subdivision of a County ? Was a parish the > equivalent of a township - Is a township the same as a village ? > Can I have several villages and/ or townships in a parish ? > Ward / Parliamentary - havent got a clue what this means > Sanitary / Ecclesiastical - Whee ! off with the fairies - here is a wild > guess - some sort of reference to subdivisons around the > town/township/village where different sanitation regimes were implemented ? > Or different churches held sway ? > > And Happy New Year to you too ............. > > Bill >