Margie wrote: > George Forbes and Jane or Jean Whitton had a son William who married > Maggie Ann Rennie in1908 - his address was Northseat Savoch and > hers South Littletack Savoch. George was dead at the time of marriage > but Jean was still alive. > > Looking for information on the marriage of George and Jean or the births > of any family to ascertain where they were. Also would the nearest > graveyard to Savoch be Maud? No. The nearest graveyard would be ... Savoch! (also known as Auchnagatt). As you can see from consulting: http://www.abdnet.co.uk/burialgrounds/ burial records start in 1877 and are held by the Aberdeenshire Council Registrars. But as the 'quoad sacra' Parish of Savoch was carved out of the older parishes of Old Deer, New Deer, Ellon, Methlick and Tarves, anyone who died there might well have family links to (and even a family lair in) any of the burial grounds in these parishes. You will find additional information on each of these at the above website. Incidentally, I have no record of a burial ground in Maud. Have I missed something? Gavin Bell

> Looking for information on the marriage of George and Jean or the births > of any family to ascertain where they were. Also would the nearest > graveyard to Savoch be Maud? There is a graveyard at Savoch Kirk which is still in use even though the Kirk itself is not in regular use. To my knowledge the inscriptions have not been transcribed and some of the grave digger records were destroyed by a disgruntled grave digger many years ago. These probably only referred to the original burial site in the immediate surrounds of the building. There is an additional burial area at a lower level on two sides of the original and I assume that there is a record of most of these burials. Richard

Looking for information on the crofts/farms of Rumfold and Howtown in Essie/Rhynie and the Henry families that lived there. thanks Paul

George Forbes and Jane or Jean Whitton had a son William who married Maggie Ann Rennie in1908 - his address was Northseat Savoch and hers South Littletack Savoch. George was dead at the time of marriage but Jean was still alive. Looking for information on the marriage of George and Jean or the births of any family to ascertain where they were. Also would the nearest graveyard to Savoch be Maud? Thanks, Margie

Bill Wood wrote: > I came across a place called OYNE in a census form a few days ago. > Could that be a variation on the spelling ? There is an Aberdeenshire parish called Oyne, and I am informed, by those whose opinion I trust, that this is locally pronounced as "Een", just as with George's place in Cairnie. Gavin Bell

Greg Garden wrote: > I am wondering if someone might be able to help me please. Apparently > our roots lie in the GARDYNE/ GARDIN/GARDEN family from Angus. "Apparently?" Would you like to tell us something about the evidence for this? The name GARDYNE is certainly recorded at an early date in Angus, but it does not necessarily follow that all other or later occurrences of the name are linked to the first - many names came into existence independently in more than one place, and I would guess that one that is linked to such a common thing as a garden, or such a common trade as a gardener, might well have multiple beginnings. > I am trying to find out when they actually arrived in Aberdeenshire > please. I have posted an enquiry on the Angus list but to no avail. The earliest record I can find is that of Simon GARDIN, who was entered in the Burgess Roll of Aberdeen on 7th January 1471/2. But that does not necessarily make him the first GARDIN in the Royal Burgh of Aberdeen - only the first to be recorded in that particular source. > I thought that someone on this list might be able to tell me where to > look to see when the Angus families may have migrated to the Aberdeen > area. I can't imagine any source that would tell you anything as tidy as that. The further you go back in time, the thinner the written record becomes, and what does survive is often a record of transfers of land. This will typically name the parties exchanging property, but it may not say anything about the identity or origins of the parties, or where the rest of their family were. Gavin Bell

Hi, I am wondering if someone might be able to help me please. Apparently our roots lie in the GARDYNE/ GARDIN/GARDEN family from Angus. I am trying to find out when they actually arrived in Aberdeenshire please. I have posted an enquiry on the Angus list but to no avail. I thought that someone on this list might be able to tell me where to look to see when the Angus families may have migrated to the Aberdeen area. please. Thanks Roslyn Garden.

Thankyou everybody for your replies, Ihave downlaoded Gavins pdf file and bookmarked Jeannettes website and digested the other emails. Now the 64 dollar question Whats does Sanitary / Ecclesiastical mean when applied to census data ? Sanitary : Different districts in a town split by drainage and nightcart and planning requirements ? Ecclesiastical : Different districts in a town split by proximity to various churches ? Bill On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 10:46 PM, Gavin Bell <g.bell@which.net> wrote: > Jeanette McRobb wrote: > > > ... > > I think you are asking how do you find out the name of the parish > > associated with the first number in the sequence. I am sure there are > > many ways to find this out, but an easy way is to check out the > > following website which details all the parishes, with their > > associated numbers. > > > > http://scotsfamily.com/parish.htm > > > A more detailed list, which shows which RDs/EDs changed and combined, is > actually available on the Scotlandspeople site, at: > > > http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/files2/family-records/registration-districts-from-1855.pdf > > > If you look up "Aberdeen" on the "scotsfamily" site, you will find just > a single entry. Look up "Aberdeen" on the scotlandspeople page and you > get 8, plus further entries for "St Nicholas" (the original town parish > of Aberdeen) "Old Machar" (site of most of the 19th-century development > of Aberdeen) and entries showing when the once separate Parishes/RDs of > Nigg and Newhills became incorporated (for Registration and Census > purposes) into Aberdeen. > > More complications to deal with, but like the man said, "the truth is > seldom pure and never simple". > > > Gavin Bell > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

My apologies, I didnt realise it was not appropriate. Bill On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 11:47 PM, Gavin Bell <g.bell@which.net> wrote: > Bill Wood wrote: > > > This link might be useful to some of you. > > > > Bill > > > > Victorian Legislation: a Timeline Marjie Bloy, > > Ph.D. Senior Research Fellow, National University of Singapore. > > > http://www.victorianweb.org/misc/bloy.html > > http://www.victorianweb.org/history/legistl.html > > > Fine as far as it goes - but as it appears to have grown out of a site > whose overall title is "A Web of *English* History" > (http://www.historyhome.co.uk/) it is of limited value to students of > family history in Scotland. > > For example: "Victorian Legislation: a Timeline" (the second link > above) mentions the 1834 Poor Law Amendment Act which "... was > responsible for the establishment of workhouses throughout the country". > Which is true - in England. But this law did not apply in Scotland. > > The equivalent piece of legislation north of the border (which is not > even mentioned in the "Timeline") was the 1845 Poor Law Amendment > (Scotland)Act. This set up a system almost diametrically opposed to the > English Workhouse system, by putting responsibility for poor relief in > the hand of independent Parochial Boards. The result was that, even in > those larger towns which had a Poorhouse, the majority of assistance was > in the form of "outdoor relief", ie the pauper received assistance "in > the community", rather than in institutions. And the spin-off for > family historians is that much (although sadly not all) of the Parochial > Board records have supplied, and can give valuable information on the > lives of paupers and their families. > > Another omission from the "Timeline" is the legislation (in 1854, 1855 > and 1860) which set up the system of civil registration in Scotland on a > rather different (and, to the family historian, more useful) basis than > the equivalent in England. > > > Gavin Bell > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I am looking for some guidance in determining the location of Oyn in the parish of Cairnie and whether or not it still exists. It would have been a farmsteading, probably with not more than a couple or so dwellings. In the second half of the 18th century my early Branders lived there and I have a few Cairnie OPR baptismal references to Oyn. *"1758 John Brander** in Oyn had a child with his wife Jean Adamson called George wit. Jerom Craigen in Oyn and George Cowe in Smallburn Oct 15th 1758 * *"1763 John Brander in Oyn had a daughter by his wife Jean Adamson Jan 19th 1763 baptised and called Jean before wit. Jerom Craigen and Wm ?????"* *"1773 John Brander had a son by his wife Isobel Hepburn in Oyn 24th May 1773 and called John . Witnesses ?????(I think the surname of the witnesses is “Henderson” GB Nov 2009)* *"1775 John Brander in Oyn had a son by his wife Isobel Hepburn Feb2 1775 called James witnesses Al. Brander in Cair*ny *and James Brander (or Bremner) Bracklog *" At the 1841 Census there were two families, both Forbes, in Oyn and it also appears in the 1881 census. I found Oyn on Robert Gordon's 17th century map of Strathbogie and Aenzie. It is on the NLS website. http://www.nls.uk/maps/counties/detail.cfm?id=10 and it appears to be south southeast of Smallburn not far from Brakleys (Brackley?) and Shyncarne (Shynsharnie?) but cannot find any trace on a more modern map, possibly the farm is no longer in existence. Intriguingly there is a "Een" shown not far from Smallburn. Could Een be an alternative spelling for Oyn based on the local Strathbogie pronunciation of Oyn. I am thinking of the Scots pronunciation of the numeral one! Any help or information gladly received. feliz año nuevo a todos George -- George Brander Torre de la Horadada España

George Brander wrote: > I am looking for some guidance in determining the location of Oyn in the > parish of Cairnie and whether or not it still exists. It would have been a > farmsteading, probably with not more than a couple or so dwellings. > > ... > > I found Oyn on Robert Gordon's 17th century map of Strathbogie and Aenzie. > It is on the NLS website. > > http://www.nls.uk/maps/counties/detail.cfm?id=10 > and it appears to be south southeast of Smallburn not far from Brakleys > (Brackley?) and Shyncarne (Shynsharnie?) but cannot find any trace on a more > modern map, possibly the farm is no longer in existence. Intriguingly there > is a "Een" shown not far from Smallburn. > > Could Een be an alternative spelling for Oyn based on the local Strathbogie > pronunciation of Oyn. I am thinking of the Scots pronunciation of the > numeral one! That was the conclusion I came to. The official "Index to Places" produced to accompany the first edition of the large-scale Ordnance Survey maps (surveyed 1871) does not have "Oyne" but does offer "Ean". The transcription of the 1851 Census for Cairnie held by ANESFHS does not have "Ean" (or "Een" or anything similar) - but does have "Oyne", which appears in the enumeration between Sinsharnie and Drumfold. So I am fairly sure these are two spellings for the same place. Sheet 425 of today's "Explorer" 1:25000 OS map has "Een" at NJ47504425 Gavin Bell

Bill Wood wrote: > ... > Whats does Sanitary / Ecclesiastical mean when applied to census data ? > > Sanitary : Different districts in a town split by drainage and nightcart and > planning requirements ? > > Ecclesiastical : Different districts in a town split by proximity to various > churches ? Without knowing the full context in which these words occurred it is hard to be certain, but I suspect this question is linked with your earlier questions about the categories parish/township/village etc. as found on Census returns. If so, then a little light Administrative History might be helpful. The first (and most important) fact to hang on to is the importance, over hundreds of years, of the Parish as the primary administrative division in Scotland. The system of parishes was essentially set up by the Kirk of Scotland at the Reformation (although it also leant on pre-Reformation organisation). This divided up the entire territory of Scotland into areas of a size to be served by a single church (although in sparsely-populated parts of the country, these areas could be quite large. The parishes were grouped, for church/ecclesiastical/'quoad sacra' purposes into Presbyteries, usually containing from 6 to 12 parishes, and the Presbyteries were further grouped into Synoads. You note that I have not said anything about Counties. This is because the parishes were not (as was the case in England) grouped according to County, and in fact had nothing whatever to do with them. The Counties (which did not appear on maps with anything like their "traditional" names and boundaries much before 1750) belonged to an entirely different organisational setup, depending not on the Kirk, but on the Crown, and were significant only for the administration of Justice and the registration of land ownership, and had little impact on the lives of the great majority of people. The parish, on the other hand, loomed large in most people's lives, not only for reasons of Religion, but also as the source of education and poor relief - and also as the collector of taxes. This situation, with parishes and counties existing essentially in parallel, but quite independently of each other, essentially persisted until the middle of the 19th century. In the later 18th century, there is some attempt to assign parishes to counties, but as the boundaries of the one frequently failed to line up with the boundaries of the other, this was a somewhat muddled business. But betwen 1845 and 1872, three of the Kirk's traditional areas of responsibility (Poor Relief, Registration of life events, and Education) were taken away and new structures began to be set up to administer them. The first was Poor Relief, and to run the new system, there were, for the first time, "Parochial Boards" set up in each parish, which were quite independent of the Kirk and who supervised the work of a new official, the Inspector of the Poor (although Elders and Session Clerks were often employmed in this position). In 1855, another new (independent) local official was created, namely the Registrar, who took over responsibility for recording Births, Deaths and Marriages. And in 1872, the majority of schools came under the control of local School Boards. But while the number of "Boards" and officers multiplied, one thing remained largely unchanged, namely the geographical area over which each body or official presided. The boundaries of the original Ecclesiastical parish were, in the great majority of cases, adopted by the Poor Law Board or Registration District or whatever which took over some aspect or another of administration. Some new Parishes/Registration Districts were set up to accommodate changes in population, but these are surprisingly few. From the foregoing, it will be clear that administration of the various services which, in modern times, generally come under a Town or County Council, was, in 19th century Scotland, dispersed among multiple parallel or overlapping authorities. In other words, it was a muddle. And the muddle was not tidied up until around 1890, with important Acts of Parliament being passed in 1889, and coming into effect at various dates up to May 1891. It is against this background that we have to look at the bewildering series of categories which appear at the start of each Enumeration Book in the Census. In 1841, there were slots to record: County, District, Parish, City, Burgh Royal and Parliamentary, Burgh Parliamentary (not being Royal), Burgh and Parish, Island - but in most cases you will find that most of the slots are left blank, because they are irrelevant. And somewhere among them will almost certainly be the name of the original Parish, which for clarity, will probably have the Registrar General's code number attached or associated somewhere in the introduction to the document. Gavin Bell

2009/12/28 Lorraine MCKENZIE <lor633@btinternet.com> wrote: I Remember my husband had to work Christmas Day in the ealy 1960's. we woke > our three children early so he could watch them opening thier presents > before he went to work. > ________________________________________________ You had to wake the children early? Wake them?? Our youngest granddaughter was up at 3 a.m. on Friday and sat patiently waiting for "something to happen" until 5 when her mother put her back to bed! Ray

---- MISS ADELINE MARTIN <martin8118@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > Gavin > That was quite a peace of education that I got from your answer to Bill. I really do learn a lot about Scotland from your answers to other peoples questions. Adeline, I agree with you. I don't usually click on anyone's query but I always click on Gavin's answers! Margaret

Gavin That was quite a peace of education that I got from your answer to Bill. I really do learn a lot about Scotland from your answers to other peoples questions.   Happy New Year to All   Adeline CT. U.S.A.

Hi Catherine The name of the family was SHAW...sorry I forgot to put this in, however another lister has found them for me and thankfully it was transcribed wrongly as James 3 and should have been Jane 3 which is what I was hoping for. Cheers Joan > Joan, > What is the child's surname. > Catherine > > >> Hello listers >> >> I know this question is not correct for the Aberdeen list, but having >> found >> a family that I am looking for on FreeCen for the 1841 census as follows, >> I >> feel that the name of James aged 3 may have been incorrectly transcribed >> and >> should be Jane, and would be very grateful if a lister may be able to >> check >> this for me. >> >> Piece: SCT1841/102 Place: Kingussie & Insh -Inverness-shire Enumeration >> District: 4 >> Civil Parish: Kingussie Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: - >> Folio: 4 Page: 2 >> Address: Newtonmore -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 568 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message

> Joan Birtles wrote: >> Hello listers >> >> I know this question is not correct for the Aberdeen list, but having >> found a family that I am looking for on FreeCen for the 1841 census as >> follows, I feel that the name of James aged 3 may have been incorrectly >> transcribed and should be Jane, and would be very grateful if a lister >> may be able to check this for me. >> >> Piece: SCT1841/102 Place: Kingussie & Insh -Inverness-shire Enumeration >> District: 4 >> Civil Parish: Kingussie Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: - >> Folio: 4 Page: 2 >> Address: Newtonmore >> >> Thank you for any help. > > You can search for him/her and check an image of the original Census > enumeration on Scotlandspeople. > > > Gavin Bell > ***************************************************************************** I know Gavin, I do use Scotlandspeople but let my credits lapse unfortunately so was hoping someone would just check out this one for me. I will get back into them again when the NY is over. Cheers and happy NY Joan -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 568 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message

Hi Jen That's exactly what I wanted to know thank you. FreeCen showed James as a 3 yr old but I was hoping it was transcribed wrongly and should have been Jane as a 3 yr old. Jane Shaw is the missing link in the family I have been searching for, for a close friend. She is on the 1851 census with her parents but had a son Alexander illeg. in 1859 and was in Tasmania by the 1861 census. We've just been trying to verify her parents as her death showed no parent's names. Thank you for your help and we did have a lovely Christmas, one which was going to be quiet but turned out very busy. Happy New Year & a healthy 2010/ Cheers Joan > Hi Joan, > > I just had a look on Scotlandspeople site and without actually viewing the > entry, an Alexander, Ann, Isabella, John and Jane aged 3 come up with a > match in 1841 at Newtonmore but no James. > > Hope you had a lovely Christmas and wishing you all the best for 2010. > > Cheers, > >> I know this question is not correct for the Aberdeen list, but having >> found >> a family that I am looking for on FreeCen for the 1841 census as follows, >> I >> feel that the name of James aged 3 may have been incorrectly transcribed >> and >> should be Jane, and would be very grateful if a lister may be able to >> check >> this for me. >> >> Piece: SCT1841/102 Place: Kingussie & Insh -Inverness-shire Enumeration >> District: 4 >> Civil Parish: Kingussie Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: - >> Folio: 4 Page: 2 >> Address: Newtonmore > > > -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 568 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message

Ron and Laura Bozzay wrote: > Hello friends and cousins on the Aberdeen list. > > I have not found an equivalent list for folks for Edinburgh. Rootsweb have both a SCT-EDINBURGH List and a MIDLOTHIAN List (Midlothian was the County which included Edinburgh. Gavin Bell

Hi Joan, I just had a look on Scotlandspeople site and without actually viewing the entry, an Alexander, Ann, Isabella, John and Jane aged 3 come up with a match in 1841 at Newtonmore but no James. Hope you had a lovely Christmas and wishing you all the best for 2010. Cheers, Jen. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joan Birtles" <joanbirtles@bigpond.com> To: <ABERDEEN@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 11:09 PM Subject: [ABERDEEN] 1841 census > I know this question is not correct for the Aberdeen list, but having > found > a family that I am looking for on FreeCen for the 1841 census as follows, > I > feel that the name of James aged 3 may have been incorrectly transcribed > and > should be Jane, and would be very grateful if a lister may be able to > check > this for me. > > Piece: SCT1841/102 Place: Kingussie & Insh -Inverness-shire Enumeration > District: 4 > Civil Parish: Kingussie Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: - > Folio: 4 Page: 2 > Address: Newtonmore