Hi List, I am looking for descendents of Robert MATHIESON [a ship master of Aberdeen ] born c 1818 to Robert MATHIESON and Elizabeth ADDELL / ADIEL He married Eliza GAREY at St Nicholas Church Aberdeen in 1839 and died sometime between 1861and 1872....He was supposed to have died at sea. They had the following children James MATHIESON 1841- last known living in High Street , Dumbarton in 1876 an engineer Alexander Smith MATHIESON 1843 believed to have died berore 1876 ....not mentioned in will of mother 1876 Robert MATHIESON 1844 believed to have died before 1876... not mentioned in will of mother 1876 Peter MATHIESON 1847 believed to have died before 1876..... not mentioned in will of mother 1876 Eliza Adiell MATHIESON 1852-1936 married Alexander Christie SMITH 1851-1919...he was a grocer in Aberdeen ... William MATHIESON 1854- alive in 1876 Isabella Garey MATHIESON 1861-1930..married Leslie ROSS 1859-1932 a tobacconist... 1901 census living in Edinburgh Does anybody recognise this family Cheers Chrissy and John Wellborne on a warm and sunny day in Bundaberg Qld Australia -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 4690 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message

Hi again,Thanks for the fast reply about Canadians.What I wanted to know was if a British born citizen who joined the British army was required to have a passport when travelling to France during WW1 or if they just had to show their army papers.  My ancestor, an arny officer,  went to France several times and not always with a regiment.ThanksLiz __________________________________________________________________ The new Internet Explorer® 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/

I don't know the answer to this one, but you would think being in the employ of the Canadian Government they were already cleared. I recall a joke about a Canadian soldier who visited France years after the war ended and was asked for his passport. He said he didn't need a passport the first time he visited and the Immigration fellow said that was impossible.....everyone needed passports to get into France. The last line was the soldiers when he replied he had come ashore just before Vimy Ridge........by boat. I would think that's your answer.......Goldie ----- Original Message ----- From: "liza stuart" <lizastart@yahoo.ca> To: <aberdeen@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 3:08 PM Subject: [ABERDEEN] passports and war travel Hi all,Re: WW1 and Passports for Army Did soldiers need a passport to travel to France?I got my ancestor's military records from NA and there was no passport listed.Thanks for any info.Liz __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi all,Re:  WW1 and Passports for Army Did soldiers need a passport to travel to France?I got my ancestor's military records from NA and there was no passport listed.Thanks for any info.Liz __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/

Canadians are Canadian citizens and not British subjects. And you do need a passport to go to Britain or any part of it. On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 2:10 PM, goldie and Lido Doratti <lidogold2@shaw.ca>wrote: > No idea, but my 'take' on it would be they aren't needed to go there, > except > to identify a person. Passports are now required to enter all countries. > l'm pretty sure if I decided to move to Scotland I could do that. They'd > ask for a passport when I arrive but only to prove who I am and for ID > purposes. I wouldn't have to become a 'citizen' of Scotland because I am a > British subject. But this wouldn't apply if I wanted to move to the US. > The paper work is much heavier to do that. I'm not a lawyer but I know > that > (God forbid this would happen at my age) if I moved to the States and > married an American, my children, at age 21, would have the right to choose > their citizenship or could retain dual citizenship. I have a step brother > who is born in Canada and that was his situation. But things change and I > don't know for sure the answer to this one. Canada, Britain, Australia, > NZ, > and others are members of the Commonwealth and British Subjects, and we can > come and go as we please in the other countries, except as I said, we need > a > passport to prove who we are and where we are from. Further, I don't > think, > again as example; if I decided to go to Scotland and stay 6 or more months > anyone there would bother with me. (Canada Pension would be after me > because they don't want you out of the country longer than 6 months to > collect it). But that wouldn't apply if I went to the States, I think 3 > months is the limit and someone would be after me. This is only my > opinion, > I have no idea of the legalities of it all. Should I try to move to > Scotland and see? LOL, Goldie > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ken May" <jean-ken@xtra.co.nz> > To: <aberdeen@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 10:41 AM > Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] RE-LEGAL NAME > > > Goldie said... "He did not need a passport to come from Scotland to Canada > he was a British subject"... > > Thank you Goldie for that piece of information. I don't suppose you know > when passports became compulsory for British subjects who came Canada? > > I have to search for some of my wifes relatives who travelled between > Scotland and Canada and back again between 1912 and 1928. If I could nail > down exactly when passports were introduced it could save me a lot of time > trying to find things that may not exist. > > Than you again for that info. > > Ken > NZ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

So I guess I'll have t give that up!! Thanks, Gavin. Goldie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gavin Bell" <g.bell@which.net> To: <aberdeen@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 12:46 PM Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] RE-LEGAL NAME > goldie and Lido Doratti wrote: > >> ... >> l'm pretty sure if I decided to move to Scotland I could do that. > > If you mean "go and take up permanent residence" then it is not certain > that you could. The rules on immigration were made much more > restrictive around 30 years ago, and (while I cannot give you precise > legal chapter and verse) I rather think that citizens of Commonwealth > countries (such as Canada) have the automatic right to take up residence > in the UK only if they have at least one parent who was actually born in > the UK. Otherwise, they are subject to the same immigration > restrictions as other non-EU citizens. > > > Gavin Bell > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Ken, All Canadians were British subjects until Canaian citizenship was created in 1947 except Newfoundlanders. Newfoundland was still a colony of the British Empire until 1949 On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 1:41 PM, Ken May <jean-ken@xtra.co.nz> wrote: > Goldie said... "He did not need a passport to come from Scotland to Canada > he was a British subject"... > > Thank you Goldie for that piece of information. I don't suppose you know > when passports became compulsory for British subjects who came Canada? > > I have to search for some of my wifes relatives who travelled between > Scotland and Canada and back again between 1912 and 1928. If I could nail > down exactly when passports were introduced it could save me a lot of time > trying to find things that may not exist. > > Than you again for that info. > > Ken > NZ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

There are 3 Charles Summers on the 1911 census for British Columbia - Charles aged 25 born Feb. 1886 living in Nanaimo Charles aged 26 born Jan. 1885 living in Vancouver Charles S. aged 8 living in Vancouver Hopefully you can find the correct one by hus birthdate. Good luck Kathy On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 3:06 PM, MISS ADELINE MARTIN < martin8118@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > Goldie said "He did not need a passport to come from Scotland to Canada he > was a British subject" > > Thanks Goldie, I did not realize that he did not need a passport being > British. > So far I have had no luck finding out exactly when he arrived in Canada but > now I would put it between 1906 - 1915 so I will have to go back and > re-check. > His Attestation Papers gave me a street address in Vancouver B.C. and this > morning I mailed a letter to the Library & Archive Canada for a complete > copy of his record but I don't know if that will only be his army record or > if it will have other info. > I did search the 1911 census but I may have been doing something wrong as > it was telling me that I has to go to 1901 first.I came across 2 Charles > Summers born in the same year in Scotland in the B.C. Death Index so I will > have to see if I can send away for them also. > > Adeline > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

No idea, but my 'take' on it would be they aren't needed to go there, except to identify a person. Passports are now required to enter all countries. l'm pretty sure if I decided to move to Scotland I could do that. They'd ask for a passport when I arrive but only to prove who I am and for ID purposes. I wouldn't have to become a 'citizen' of Scotland because I am a British subject. But this wouldn't apply if I wanted to move to the US. The paper work is much heavier to do that. I'm not a lawyer but I know that (God forbid this would happen at my age) if I moved to the States and married an American, my children, at age 21, would have the right to choose their citizenship or could retain dual citizenship. I have a step brother who is born in Canada and that was his situation. But things change and I don't know for sure the answer to this one. Canada, Britain, Australia, NZ, and others are members of the Commonwealth and British Subjects, and we can come and go as we please in the other countries, except as I said, we need a passport to prove who we are and where we are from. Further, I don't think, again as example; if I decided to go to Scotland and stay 6 or more months anyone there would bother with me. (Canada Pension would be after me because they don't want you out of the country longer than 6 months to collect it). But that wouldn't apply if I went to the States, I think 3 months is the limit and someone would be after me. This is only my opinion, I have no idea of the legalities of it all. Should I try to move to Scotland and see? LOL, Goldie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken May" <jean-ken@xtra.co.nz> To: <aberdeen@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 10:41 AM Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] RE-LEGAL NAME Goldie said... "He did not need a passport to come from Scotland to Canada he was a British subject"... Thank you Goldie for that piece of information. I don't suppose you know when passports became compulsory for British subjects who came Canada? I have to search for some of my wifes relatives who travelled between Scotland and Canada and back again between 1912 and 1928. If I could nail down exactly when passports were introduced it could save me a lot of time trying to find things that may not exist. Than you again for that info. Ken NZ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Goldie said... "He did not need a passport to come from Scotland to Canada he was a British subject"... Thank you Goldie for that piece of information.  I don't suppose you know when passports became compulsory for British subjects who came Canada? I have to search for some of my wifes relatives who travelled between Scotland and Canada and back again between 1912 and 1928.  If I could nail down exactly when passports were introduced it could save me a lot of time trying to find things that may not exist. Than you again for that info. Ken NZ

Go back to the 1911 census, and find this fellow. Then go up to the top of the page he is on and you will see 'split view'.....click on it. When it loads in it is going to show you the original document and then find him again on the page. You can enlarge the page so you can read it. You will be able to find out when he came to Canada, his country of birth, bith month and year, etc. And IF Mary was with him, you can find out the same for her. The link to the 1901 census is only telling you he MAY be on it as well. Just ignore it for this exercise, but I would check it out 'just in case' after you find this info. If he is on it, and you know he wasn't here in 1901, then you've hit on someone else, right? Goldie ----- Original Message ----- From: "MISS ADELINE MARTIN" <martin8118@sbcglobal.net> To: <aberdeen@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 12:06 PM Subject: [ABERDEEN] RE-LEGAL NAME Goldie said "He did not need a passport to come from Scotland to Canada he was a British subject" Thanks Goldie, I did not realize that he did not need a passport being British. So far I have had no luck finding out exactly when he arrived in Canada but now I would put it between 1906 - 1915 so I will have to go back and re-check. His Attestation Papers gave me a street address in Vancouver B.C. and this morning I mailed a letter to the Library & Archive Canada for a complete copy of his record but I don't know if that will only be his army record or if it will have other info. I did search the 1911 census but I may have been doing something wrong as it was telling me that I has to go to 1901 first.I came across 2 Charles Summers born in the same year in Scotland in the B.C. Death Index so I will have to see if I can send away for them also. Adeline ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Having sent for, and gotten a WW1 Army record, I can tell you it will contain even his rate of pay and if some of it was being sent back to his wife, where and when he had leave and if he was injured or in sick bay. Send me the name as it was on the Attestation Papers, and I'll see if I can get the death cert. That should settle the question....provided of course, that he died here in BC. And I agree with the Lister who questioned the fact he signed up at age 39....seems a bit odd, but something is telling me that they would take men under 40. I don't know where I got that idea from though!! Goldie ----- Original Message ----- From: "MISS ADELINE MARTIN" <martin8118@sbcglobal.net> To: <aberdeen@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 12:06 PM Subject: [ABERDEEN] RE-LEGAL NAME Goldie said "He did not need a passport to come from Scotland to Canada he was a British subject" Thanks Goldie, I did not realize that he did not need a passport being British. So far I have had no luck finding out exactly when he arrived in Canada but now I would put it between 1906 - 1915 so I will have to go back and re-check. His Attestation Papers gave me a street address in Vancouver B.C. and this morning I mailed a letter to the Library & Archive Canada for a complete copy of his record but I don't know if that will only be his army record or if it will have other info. I did search the 1911 census but I may have been doing something wrong as it was telling me that I has to go to 1901 first.I came across 2 Charles Summers born in the same year in Scotland in the B.C. Death Index so I will have to see if I can send away for them also. Adeline ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Can you leave this with me for a few days? I may be able to get his death cert if he died here.....I'm in BC also....Goldie ----- Original Message ----- From: "MISS ADELINE MARTIN" <martin8118@sbcglobal.net> To: <aberdeen@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 12:06 PM Subject: [ABERDEEN] RE-LEGAL NAME Goldie said "He did not need a passport to come from Scotland to Canada he was a British subject" Thanks Goldie, I did not realize that he did not need a passport being British. So far I have had no luck finding out exactly when he arrived in Canada but now I would put it between 1906 - 1915 so I will have to go back and re-check. His Attestation Papers gave me a street address in Vancouver B.C. and this morning I mailed a letter to the Library & Archive Canada for a complete copy of his record but I don't know if that will only be his army record or if it will have other info. I did search the 1911 census but I may have been doing something wrong as it was telling me that I has to go to 1901 first.I came across 2 Charles Summers born in the same year in Scotland in the B.C. Death Index so I will have to see if I can send away for them also. Adeline ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Any chance this fellow is related to Mary Jane Mathieson/Mathison from Peterhead, ABD? She married Robt Walker in 1842 in Peterhead......I have a line on some Mathieson's in Peterhead, and know who the parents of Mary Jane were, but have never been able to find them. Mary Ann died in 1855 also Peterhead and the Walkers were Seamen. Goldie ----- Original Message ----- From: <jandcwellborne@bigpond.com> To: "ABERDEEN LIST" <aberdeen@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 10:41 PM Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] MATHIESON FAMILY of ABERDEEN > Hi List, > > I am looking for descendents of Robert MATHIESON [a ship master of > Aberdeen ] born c 1818 to Robert MATHIESON and Elizabeth ADDELL / ADIEL > > He married Eliza GAREY at St Nicholas Church Aberdeen in 1839 and died > sometime between 1861and 1872....He was supposed to have died at sea. > > They had the following children > > James MATHIESON 1841- last known living in High Street , Dumbarton in 1876 > an engineer > > Alexander Smith MATHIESON 1843 believed to have died berore 1876 ....not > mentioned in will of mother 1876 > > Robert MATHIESON 1844 believed to have died before 1876... not mentioned > in will of mother 1876 > > Peter MATHIESON 1847 believed to have died before 1876..... not mentioned > in will of mother 1876 > > Eliza Adiell MATHIESON 1852-1936 married Alexander Christie SMITH > 1851-1919...he was a grocer in Aberdeen ... > > William MATHIESON 1854- alive in 1876 > > Isabella Garey MATHIESON 1861-1930..married Leslie ROSS 1859-1932 a > tobacconist... 1901 census living in Edinburgh > > > Does anybody recognise this family > > Cheers > > Chrissy and John Wellborne > on a warm and sunny day in Bundaberg Qld Australia > > -- > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. > We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. > SPAMfighter has removed 4690 of my spam emails to date. > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > The Professional version does not have this message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I am not sure you have the same person below. I have a Charles George Gray Somors Illegitimate son of Catherine Somors born in Edinburgh on April 28,1876. In the 1881 census he is living with his grandparents in Kelso under the name of Charles S.Gray.In the 1891 census he is listed as Charles Summers.I have not been able to track him for a number of years until a few days ago This could be him as the 'S' in Charles S Gray may in fact be a misreading of Charles 'G'(eorge) Gray or maybe not. However I would be more likely to think that with his Birth showing his name as Charles George Gray Somors that his Father was a Gray, if his Mother is listed as a Somers . Does the Birth Certifiacte have the Mother down as having a MS ?  If it does she was married and he was not therefore illgitimate. Is there a Father's name mentioned? And then listing him later as Charles Summers is possible. I found that he joined the Canadian Army on Dec.6,1915 and he was married to a Mary ?. I now have a marriage Reg. from Scotlandspeople 1906 for a Charles John Summers with his parents being John Summers (his Grandfather's name) and Catherine Summers ms Martin,(his Grandmothers name was Rose Summers ms Martin) married to a Mary Kennedy.His Occupation was the same as in his Army join-up papers so I am sure that I have the right marriage. This again is puzzling. It isn't that usual to change around Christian names eg adding in a John and omitting a George? This is where I am not at all sure you have the same person. Why suddenly change from Charles George to Charles John ? Just because he shares the same occupation and a vaguely familiar name does not make him the same person. This could simply be a cousin with similar name or no connection at all. If his Mother on the birth is listed as Catherine Somers but on this marriage certificate Charles John Summers has  parents as being John Summers  and Catherine Summers ms Martin and he was illegitimate theMother should be Catherine Martin on the Birth Cert of Charles !! Does the Marriage Cert of Charles John Summers in 1906 show his age as being about 30 which it should if Charles was born in 1876 ? Charles John Summers with his parents being John Summers (his Grandfather's name) and Catherine Summers ms Martin,(his Grandmothers name was Rose Summers ms Martin) And if Charles' Mother's maiden name was Martin ,she must have been married to said Father Unknown Somers. So in that case he would not be illegitinmate. And if Charles' Mother's Catherine Summers ms Martin maiden , the same maiden name as HER mother's maiden name then that makes her born Illegitimate too. I am trying to find out if he had to legally change the George part of his name and also the spelling of his Surname  to get a passport go to Canada. He can call himself whatever he wants and yes they could change the spelling . And finally is he not a bit old to be joining the Canadian Army aged 39 ? I think you need to go back and double check everything with an open mind. Regards Karen The Good You Do Comes Back To You. --- On Sat, 23/1/10, MISS ADELINE MARTIN <martin8118@sbcglobal.net> wrote: From: MISS ADELINE MARTIN <martin8118@sbcglobal.net> Subject: [ABERDEEN] LEGAL NAME CHANGE To: aberdeen@rootsweb.com Date: Saturday, 23 January, 2010, 16:25 Hello   Can anyone tell me where I can find a record of a legal name change if there was one.   I have a Charles George Gray Somors Illegitimate son of Catherine Somors born in Edinburgh on April 28,1876. In the 1881 census he is living with his grandparents in Kelso under the name of Charles S.Gray.In the 1891 census he is listed as Charles Summers.I have not been able to track him for a number of years until a few days ago I found that he joined the Canadian Army on Dec.6,1915 and he was married to a Mary ?. I now have a marriage Reg. from Scotlandspeople 1906 for a Charles John Summers with his parents being John Summers (his Grandfather's name) and Catherine Summers ms Martin,(his Grandmothers name was Rose Summers ms Martin) married to a Mary Kennedy.His Occupation was the same as in his Army join-up papers so I am sure that I have the right marriage. I am trying to find out if he had to legally change the George part of his name and also the spelling of his Surname  to get a passport go to Canada.    I will be grateful for any info. that I can get as his mother Catherine was my Gt.Grandmother's sister   Adeline Martin Ct. U.S.A. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

According to the Canadian Passenger Lists on Ancestry there were a number of Charles SUMMERS' who left UK for Canada.  However, (although I don't have enough info to guarantee this is the correct person) there was a Charles John Summers, age 36, married, who left Glasgow in May 1913 on the ship Scandinavian.  He was unaccompanied on the journey. He arrived in Quebec on 12 May 1913.  He had not been in Canada before, but he was intending permanently residing in Canada (he could read and write). His county of birth was Scotland and his race was Scottish. His final destination was Montreal, Quebec.  The occupation which he had left in Scotland was Butler and he intended looking for work in Canada as a Waiter. Again there were numerous Mary Summers (Sumers, Samers) who left UK.  There was one (again no guarantees its the correct one) who left Glasow October 1913 on the ship Pretorian.  Port of arrival was Quebec. Mary's age was stated as 30 but this has been inserted over the orginal age and I am unable to read the original.  Her occupation is listed as housewife and she is described as "to join husband CPR ship 6 months in Canada."  These words are written over the original writing in regards to her nationality and I am unable to read the original writing.  Her final destination was Montreal, Quebec.  Mary was unaccompanied on the journey. Alison   ________________________________ From: MISS ADELINE MARTIN To: aberdeen@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, 23 January, 2010 16:25:39 Subject: [ABERDEEN] LEGAL NAME CHANGE Hello   Can anyone tell me where I can find a record of a legal name change if there was one.   I have a Charles George Gray Somors Illegitimate son of Catherine Somors born in Edinburgh on April 28,1876. In the 1881 census he is living with his grandparents in Kelso under the name of Charles S.Gray.In the 1891 census he is listed as Charles Summers.I have not been able to track him for a number of years until a few days ago I found that he joined the Canadian Army on Dec.6,1915 and he was married to a Mary ?. I now have a marriage Reg. from Scotlandspeople 1906 for a Charles John Summers with his parents being John Summers (his Grandfather's name) and Catherine Summers ms Martin,(his Grandmothers name was Rose Summers ms Martin) married to a Mary Kennedy.His Occupation was the same as in his Army join-up papers so I am sure that I have the right marriage. I am trying to find out if he had to legally change the George part of his name and also the spelling of his Surname  to get a passport go to Canada.    I will be grateful for any info. that I can get as his mother Catherine was my Gt.Grandmother's sister   Adeline Martin Ct. U.S.A.

Dear Adeline: When Goldie says that "I would doubt he legally had his name changed in those days" I believe she means that people happily adopted name changes on their own without legal papers to substantiate the change. It seems to have been perfectly legal in those days. Spellings of names from a good many countries proved to be too difficult for English tongues, or resembled English words of questionable use for names. People changed them regularly and quite arbitrarily. If you can manage the trip, it would be worth your while to visit the Canadian Archives in Ottawa. You will find the most remarkably complete record of all persons who ever served in an army in Canada beginning with the early French period all on Microfilm. It is some time since I studied these films and I don't know if you can find someone in Ottawa to do a search for you. M Keith Abel ----- Original Message ----- From: "goldie and Lido Doratti" <lidogold2@shaw.ca> To: <aberdeen@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 1:59 PM Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] LEGAL NAME CHANGE [abridged] I would doubt he legally had his name changed in those days. > Goldie in Canada. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "MISS ADELINE MARTIN" <martin8118@sbcglobal.net> > To: <aberdeen@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 8:25 AM > Subject: [ABERDEEN] LEGAL NAME CHANGE > > > > Hello > > Can anyone tell me where I can find a record of a legal name change if > there > was one. > > I have a Charles George Gray Somors Illegitimate son of Catherine Somors > born in Edinburgh on April 28,1876. In the 1881 census he is living with > his > grandparents in > Kelso under the name of Charles S.Gray.In the 1891 census he is listed as > Charles Summers.I have not been able to track him for a number of years > until a few days ago > I found that he joined the Canadian Army on Dec.6,1915 and he was married > to > a Mary ?. I now have a marriage Reg. from Scotlandspeople 1906 for a > Charles > John Summers with his parents being John Summers (his Grandfather's name) > and Catherine Summers ms Martin,(his Grandmothers name was Rose Summers ms > Martin) married to a Mary Kennedy.His Occupation was the same as in his > Army > join-up papers so I am sure that I have the right marriage. > I am trying to find out if he had to legally change the George part of his > name and also the spelling of his Surname to get a passport go to Canada. > > I will be grateful for any info. that I can get as his mother Catherine > was > my Gt.Grandmother's sister > > Adeline Martin > Ct. U.S.A. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello, As far as I am aware there is no requirement in Scotland to legally record a name change and I believe it has been ever thus (well, for as far back as we have records, maybe!). I understand that a relatively recent introduction is the register of name changes which those whose birth was registered or who was legally adopted in Scotland can use if they want a formal record. Info here http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/regscot/change-of-name.html HTH Pat "Here's tae us! Wha's like us? Damn few! - an' they're a' deid!" Old Scots Toast -----Original Message----- From: aberdeen-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:aberdeen-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of goldie and Lido Doratti Sent: 23 January 2010 18:59 To: aberdeen@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] LEGAL NAME CHANGE He didn't need a passport to come from Scotland to Canada, he was a British subject. The trick would be to see if you can find the ship he came to Canada on, which would possibly help you. Also check the 1911 census at Automated Genealogy for Canada. His attestation papers should also give the place he was living, so that would be where you would likely find him living. I need to claify that last statement......if he lived in a rural area he likely would have gone to a larger city to sign up. But the papers should give his home address.....then look on the 1911 for him in that province. I would doubt he legally had his name changed in those days. Goldie in Canada. ----- Original Message ----- From: "MISS ADELINE MARTIN" <martin8118@sbcglobal.net> To: <aberdeen@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 8:25 AM Subject: [ABERDEEN] LEGAL NAME CHANGE Hello Can anyone tell me where I can find a record of a legal name change if there was one. I have a Charles George Gray Somors Illegitimate son of Catherine Somors born in Edinburgh on April 28,1876. In the 1881 census he is living with his grandparents in Kelso under the name of Charles S.Gray.In the 1891 census he is listed as Charles Summers.I have not been able to track him for a number of years until a few days ago I found that he joined the Canadian Army on Dec.6,1915 and he was married to a Mary ?. I now have a marriage Reg. from Scotlandspeople 1906 for a Charles John Summers with his parents being John Summers (his Grandfather's name) and Catherine Summers ms Martin,(his Grandmothers name was Rose Summers ms Martin) married to a Mary Kennedy.His Occupation was the same as in his Army join-up papers so I am sure that I have the right marriage. I am trying to find out if he had to legally change the George part of his name and also the spelling of his Surname to get a passport go to Canada. I will be grateful for any info. that I can get as his mother Catherine was my Gt.Grandmother's sister Adeline Martin Ct. U.S.A. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

MISS ADELINE MARTIN wrote: > Hello > > Can anyone tell me where I can find a record of a legal name change > if there was one. > > I have a Charles George Gray Somors Illegitimate son of Catherine > Somors born in Edinburgh on April 28,1876. In the 1881 census he is > living with his grandparents in Kelso under the name of Charles > S.Gray.In the 1891 census he is listed as Charles Summers.I have not > been able to track him for a number of years until a few days ago I > found that he joined the Canadian Army on Dec.6,1915 and he was > married to a Mary ?. I now have a marriage Reg. from Scotlandspeople > 1906 for a Charles John Summers with his parents being John Summers > (his Grandfather's name) and Catherine Summers ms Martin,(his > Grandmothers name was Rose Summers ms Martin) married to a Mary > Kennedy.His Occupation was the same as in his Army join-up papers so > I am sure that I have the right marriage. I am trying to find out if > he had to legally change the George part of his name and also the > spelling of his Surname to get a passport go to Canada. I'm afraid there will be no record of any "legal name change" because under Scots Law, you can call yourself whatever you like - there is no equivalent to the English system of formal name-change by "deed-poll". By convention, illegitimate children would take the surname of the father if paternity had been acknowledged, and would take the surname of the mother if the father was unknown or had denied paternity. However, it was quite common for illegitimate children, later in life, to adopt the surname of the reputed father, with or without his blessing. It was also quite common for people to spell their names in a variety of ways, so a change from SOMORS to SUMMERS would not in itself be significant - although the variation in forenames would have me wondering whether there were actually two people with similar names. Have you tried looking for Charles John SUMMERS in the 1891 Census? Because if he appears, he can't be the same person as Charles George Gray SOMORS. The question of a passport is unlikely to have arisen in 1915 - Canada was part of the Empire, so British Subjects could go there without one. Gavin Bell

Goldie said "He did not need a passport to come from Scotland to Canada he was a British subject"   Thanks Goldie, I  did not realize that he did not need a passport being British. So far I have had no luck finding out exactly when he arrived in Canada but now I would put it between 1906 - 1915 so I will have to go back and re-check. His Attestation Papers gave me a street address in Vancouver B.C. and this morning I mailed a letter to the Library & Archive Canada for a complete copy of his record but I don't know if that will only be his army record or if it will have other info. I did search the 1911 census but I may have been doing something wrong as it was telling me that I has to go to 1901 first.I came across 2 Charles Summers born in the same year in Scotland in the B.C. Death Index so I will have to see if I can send away for them also.   Adeline