Does anyone know the origin of the Keith name? Since Caithness is the name of their home base, could Keith be a derivitive of Caithness? How much influence did the Vikings have on the speech of the northern Scotsmen? Any Caithness history buffs out there who can discuss this? Like to hear from them. My gggrandfather might know the answer, but he died in 1817. His clan and the Keiths were bitter enemies for many years.

New to the list and looking for some leads to my James Couper and Janet Cruickshanks married ca 1759 and parents of my George born Aberdeen 1762 and married to Janet Shankland 1794 Troqueer. George was a master gardener and lived to the ripe old age of 96 when he dies in Castle Douglas Kirkcudbright. He had five children James Elspeth George Adam Robert and John. I am a driect descendant of James also a gardener who worked for the Earl of Selkirk. Ruth NSW Australia

M Keith Abel wrote: > A few years ago I had a neighbor recently arrived from Scotland, Glasgow > area I believe, with a very broad accent which the "Canadian" English all > around her failed to dilute. > > She pronounced my name which is spelled "Keith" as "Kayth" I wondered if > that was the effect of the reversal of the "ei" from the normal "ie" in > English. > > She pronounced "Jean" as "Jane" and when I hear the discussion repeated > every year of the equivalence of Jean and Jane it seems hardly surprising if > that is the way they are pronounced in Scotland. It's not! It may be that, as Ray has explained, she simply considered the two names equivalent - but I would have to say that her pronunciation of "Keith" was seriously odd. I have lived in various parts of Scotland, and have invariably heard that name pronounced to rhyme with "teeth". From your description, I wonder if the neighbour was not from Glasgow at all, but had arrived via Glasgow from Ulster (Northern Ireland), where one can meet with some very unusual vowel sounds. A friend of mine once recounted how he had been taught to swim by an Ulsterman, whose advice on doing the breast-stroke was: "Now, ramamber, and band yur knays!" His pronunciations of "knees" is rather reminiscent of your neighbour's rendering of "Keith". Gavin Bell

On 1 February 2010 06:33, Jean Levins <levins65@shaw.ca> wrote to Marilyn King: > > > The names Janet, Jane and Jessie are often used interchangeably in > Scotland. > > Have you checked the IGI for a Batch Number and Source Call Number? If > so you can order a copy of the Parish Record from your local Family History > Centre. > > Certificates are not available until 1855 in Scotland. > ___________________________________________ Hi Jean & Marilyn I did quite a bit of research into these names a few years back. There is a certain amount of confusion in the Scottish records [would you believe] but the general consensus of various sources appears to be: a] Janet was originally derived from Jane [and hence Jean] as a sort of diminutive. Once Janet started being used as a given name, the two names gained equal status as variants of each other. b] Jessie and Janet are synonyms and used fully interchangeably in Scotland. c] Jessie can be used as a pet name for Jane occasionally and, less often, they can be found as true synonyms. There is a suggestion in some sources that Jessie was a sort of extension of Jean or the pet name Jeanie. This suggests that Jessie became a synonym for Janet VIA Jean/Jane. Unfortunately the origins of these links are not documented so today's usage and the records of people such as your Janet/Jane GORDON are all we have to go on. Marilyn: If the dates are consistent and the places of the births of the children in the OPRs match, I would say you have a 95% certainty. Regarding the copies of the Parish Records where the residence of the children can be found, I guess you know that, if you can't get to a Family History Centre with access to the films, you can always get copies from Scotland's People at a very reasonable cost. [No, I don't get commission!] -- Best wishes Ray ********************************************************** >From Ray Hennessy Forenames website: www.whatsinaname.net Preferred Email address: ray@whatsinaname.net Hints for Scotland's People at http://bit.ly/WIAN-SCP **********************************************************

A few years ago I had a neighbor recently arrived from Scotland, Glasgow area I believe, with a very broad accent which the "Canadian" English all around her failed to dilute. She pronounced my name which is spelled "Keith" as "Kayth" I wondered if that was the effect of the reversal of the "ei" from the normal "ie" in English. She pronounced "Jean" as "Jane" and when I hear the discussion repeated every year of the equivalence of Jean and Jane it seems hardly surprising if that is the way they are pronounced in Scotland. M Keith Abel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Hennessy" <ray7033@googlemail.com> To: <aberdeen@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 8:08 PM Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] Janet /Jane Gordon > On 1 February 2010 06:33, Jean Levins <levins65@shaw.ca> wrote to Marilyn > King: > >> >> > The names Janet, Jane and Jessie are often used interchangeably in >> Scotland. >> > Have you checked the IGI for a Batch Number and Source Call Number? If >> so you can order a copy of the Parish Record from your local Family >> History >> Centre. >> > Certificates are not available until 1855 in Scotland. >> > ___________________________________________ > > Hi Jean & Marilyn > > I did quite a bit of research into these names a few years back. There is > a > certain amount of confusion in the Scottish records [would you believe] > but > the general consensus of various sources appears to be: > > a] Janet was originally derived from Jane [and hence Jean] as a sort of > diminutive. Once Janet started being used as a given name, the two names > gained equal status as variants of each other. > > b] Jessie and Janet are synonyms and used fully interchangeably in > Scotland. > > c] Jessie can be used as a pet name for Jane occasionally and, less often, > they can be found as true synonyms. There is a suggestion in some sources > that Jessie was a sort of extension of Jean or the pet name Jeanie. This > suggests that Jessie became a synonym for Janet VIA Jean/Jane. > > Unfortunately the origins of these links are not documented so today's > usage > and the records of people such as your Janet/Jane GORDON are all we have > to > go on. > > Marilyn: > > If the dates are consistent and the places of the births of the children > in > the OPRs match, I would say you have a 95% certainty. > > Regarding the copies of the Parish Records where the residence of the > children can be found, I guess you know that, if you can't get to a > Family > History Centre with access to the films, you can always get copies from > Scotland's People at a very reasonable cost. [No, I don't get commission!] > > -- > Best wishes > > Ray > > ********************************************************** >>From Ray Hennessy > Forenames website: www.whatsinaname.net > Preferred Email address: ray@whatsinaname.net > Hints for Scotland's People at http://bit.ly/WIAN-SCP > ********************************************************** > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thanks Jenny; I have emailed Douglas direct with info. Cheers, Carol On 1 February 2010 17:25, Jenny Myers <jenm@exemail.com.au> wrote: > Ray, > > The email address for Douglas is djclark@netactive.co.za if you would like > to contact him with your details he isn't a member of the Aberdeen list, > only LKS and ROSSGEN. > > Regards > Jenny > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Ray, The email address for Douglas is djclark@netactive.co.za if you would like to contact him with your details he isn't a member of the Aberdeen list, only LKS and ROSSGEN. Regards Jenny

Hi Douglas, I have an Alexander Pringle b. 1866, s.o. Charles Alexander Pringle b. 1836, Bolton Walls, Ahgaloo, Co. Tyrone, Ireland and Elizabeth Gordon b. 27 Sep 1839 in Grahamstown, E. Cape. Elizabeth was the daughter of Lieut. John Gordon b. 1808 at Aberdour, Fife, Scotland, and Ann Flannagan. John was killed in 1850 during the 8th Frontier War. I have no further details for Alexander Pringle, but his DOB in 1866 makes him a candidate for a marriage in 1890. Kind regards, Carol On 1 February 2010 09:16, Jenny Myers <jenm@exemail.com.au> wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Douglas J Clark > To: rossgen@rootsweb.com ; lanark@rootsweb.com > Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 3:02 AM > Subject: [Lanark] Possible Connections -Durban, South Africa > > > Hello All > > I recently has a request for further clarification regarding a > posting made in 2007 regarding obvious Scottish marriages in the early days > of Durban, South Africa. The records are all from the marriage register of > the Addington Presbyterian Church situated at the "Point" area. All the > husbands have local addresses because the heading reads "current > residence". > The women are treated differently. > > No 1 12/11/1884 > Alexander MARSON 29 (signature ? Mafson) > Annie Davidson DEY 27 - late of FINDHOM, Morayshire, Scotland > > No 4 04/07/1885 > Robert FORBES 55 > Jemima HENDERSON 33 late of WINBURGH, Scotland > > No15 22/05/1888 > Mary Townsend MOWBRAY - lately of EDINBURGH, Scotland > > No 20 20/07/1889 > Margaret Ann BRUCE - formerly of JARWICK (? Garnice) ,Baniff, N B > > No 24 29/07/1889 > George ROSS 29 > Jane WATSON 27 > > No 28 22/11/1890 > Alexander PRINGLE > Agnes STRACHAN - lately of ABERDEEN, Scotland > > No 32 01/05/1891 > William RAMSAY 30 > Thomasina STEWART 30 - lately of DUNDEE, Scotland > > No 37 21/10/1891 > David YOUNG > Margaret Brown JACKSON - lately of NEWBURGH, Fife, Scotland > > No 38 09/05/1892 > Thomas Aikman THOMSON > Isabella Agnes DOW - lately of GLASGOW, Scotland > > No 39 01/07/1892 > James WALKINSHAW > Margaret CANPBELL - lately of LOCKERBY. Dumfries > > No 40 29/07/1892 > Robert HAY 26 Station master, Van Reenen > Helen Tawse MUNRO 21 - lately of CRATHES, Aberdeen, NB > > No 41 29/07/1892 > James McIntosh 28 of Harrismith OFS (Orange Free State) > Joan ANDERSON 24 - lately of ST ANDREWS, Scotland > > No 48 23/02/1893 > Robert SMART 22 of Harrismith OFS > Hannah ELLIOT 22 - lately of JEDBURGH. Scotland > > No 56 03/11/1884 > John RIDDELL 28 > Agnes AITKEN - lately of LEITHOLM, Scotland > > No 57 10/12/1894 > Donald McKENZIE 39 > Isabella McDONALD 35 - lately of CROY, Scotland > > (Here I jump to Nos 106 and 107 as the latter was the one that > prompted my original search - hopefully I will return to the Killie > Campbell > Museum to search the rest). > > No 106 04/04/1901 > Robert Dunbar SUTHERLAND > Maggie Bell JACKSON both residences given as Durban > Here the witnesses are shown as Joseph Sutherland FENWICK and Jessie C > FENWICK. > > No 107 1901 > William BREMNER 27 - Electrical Engineer > Margaret Helen SUTHERLAND 24 - lately of BORA, Scotland > > Well all for now, hope the above helps someone. At present I am only on the > Lanark and Rossgen lists so please forward to any list you think > appropriate. > > Douglas > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

well, we obviously both learned something today......It can be. I'm surprised at that. Good luck with your search.....Goldie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marilyn" <marilyn.king@optusnet.com.au> To: <aberdeen@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 7:37 PM Subject: [ABERDEEN] Janet/Jane Gordon > Hi All, > I may have not explained myself properly in my request for advice, what I > wanted to know was it possible that a Jane could also be the same person > as > a Janet. > I know without giving all the family details that I have William Forbes > marrying Jane Gordon, the marriage entry that I found said her name was > Janet Gordon so my question was do listers think that it could be the same > person. > Regards > Marilyn > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi All, I may have not explained myself properly in my request for advice, what I wanted to know was it possible that a Jane could also be the same person as a Janet. I know without giving all the family details that I have William Forbes marrying Jane Gordon, the marriage entry that I found said her name was Janet Gordon so my question was do listers think that it could be the same person. Regards Marilyn

Hi All, I have ancestors William Forbes who married a Jane Gordon, I have found a marriage of a Janet Gordon to a William Forbes in 1807 which is the right era but before getting the certificate can anyone tell me what they think wether I have found the right family or not Many Thanks Marilyn Melbourne Australia

----- Original Message ----- From: Douglas J Clark To: rossgen@rootsweb.com ; lanark@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 3:02 AM Subject: [Lanark] Possible Connections -Durban, South Africa Hello All I recently has a request for further clarification regarding a posting made in 2007 regarding obvious Scottish marriages in the early days of Durban, South Africa. The records are all from the marriage register of the Addington Presbyterian Church situated at the "Point" area. All the husbands have local addresses because the heading reads "current residence". The women are treated differently. No 1 12/11/1884 Alexander MARSON 29 (signature ? Mafson) Annie Davidson DEY 27 - late of FINDHOM, Morayshire, Scotland No 4 04/07/1885 Robert FORBES 55 Jemima HENDERSON 33 late of WINBURGH, Scotland No15 22/05/1888 Mary Townsend MOWBRAY - lately of EDINBURGH, Scotland No 20 20/07/1889 Margaret Ann BRUCE - formerly of JARWICK (? Garnice) ,Baniff, N B No 24 29/07/1889 George ROSS 29 Jane WATSON 27 No 28 22/11/1890 Alexander PRINGLE Agnes STRACHAN - lately of ABERDEEN, Scotland No 32 01/05/1891 William RAMSAY 30 Thomasina STEWART 30 - lately of DUNDEE, Scotland No 37 21/10/1891 David YOUNG Margaret Brown JACKSON - lately of NEWBURGH, Fife, Scotland No 38 09/05/1892 Thomas Aikman THOMSON Isabella Agnes DOW - lately of GLASGOW, Scotland No 39 01/07/1892 James WALKINSHAW Margaret CANPBELL - lately of LOCKERBY. Dumfries No 40 29/07/1892 Robert HAY 26 Station master, Van Reenen Helen Tawse MUNRO 21 - lately of CRATHES, Aberdeen, NB No 41 29/07/1892 James McIntosh 28 of Harrismith OFS (Orange Free State) Joan ANDERSON 24 - lately of ST ANDREWS, Scotland No 48 23/02/1893 Robert SMART 22 of Harrismith OFS Hannah ELLIOT 22 - lately of JEDBURGH. Scotland No 56 03/11/1884 John RIDDELL 28 Agnes AITKEN - lately of LEITHOLM, Scotland No 57 10/12/1894 Donald McKENZIE 39 Isabella McDONALD 35 - lately of CROY, Scotland (Here I jump to Nos 106 and 107 as the latter was the one that prompted my original search - hopefully I will return to the Killie Campbell Museum to search the rest). No 106 04/04/1901 Robert Dunbar SUTHERLAND Maggie Bell JACKSON both residences given as Durban Here the witnesses are shown as Joseph Sutherland FENWICK and Jessie C FENWICK. No 107 1901 William BREMNER 27 - Electrical Engineer Margaret Helen SUTHERLAND 24 - lately of BORA, Scotland Well all for now, hope the above helps someone. At present I am only on the Lanark and Rossgen lists so please forward to any list you think appropriate. Douglas

On 1 February 2010 03:37, Marilyn <marilyn.king@optusnet.com.au> wrote: > > ... what I > wanted to know was it possible that a Jane could also be the same person as > a Janet. > _____________________________ Hi Marilyn Simple answer is "Yes" but the use of Jane/Janet & Janet/Jessie is quite complex in Scotland. I've tried to summarise it on my website: see http://bit.ly/WIANJanet -- Best wishes Ray ********************************************************** >From Ray Hennessy Forenames website: www.whatsinaname.net Preferred Email address: ray@whatsinaname.net Hints for Scotland's People at http://bit.ly/WIAN-SCP **********************************************************

Marilyn, I recently had the same question and the answer was "yes". Kathy > Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 14:37:45 +1100 > From: marilyn.king@optusnet.com.au > To: aberdeen@rootsweb.com > Subject: [ABERDEEN] Janet/Jane Gordon > > Hi All, > I may have not explained myself properly in my request for advice, what I > wanted to know was it possible that a Jane could also be the same person as > a Janet. > I know without giving all the family details that I have William Forbes > marrying Jane Gordon, the marriage entry that I found said her name was > Janet Gordon so my question was do listers think that it could be the same > person. > Regards > Marilyn > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Reinvent how you stay in touch with the new Windows Live Messenger. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9706116

Hi Marilyn The names Janet, Jane and Jessie are often used interchangeably in Scotland. Have you checked the IGI for a Batch Number and Source Call Number? If so you can order a copy of the Parish Record from your local Family History Centre. Certificates are not available until 1855 in Scotland. Happy Hunting, Jean ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marilyn" <marilyn.king@optusnet.com.au> To: <aberdeen@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 6:42 PM Subject: [ABERDEEN] Janet /Jane Gordon > Hi All, > I have ancestors William Forbes who married a Jane Gordon, I have found a > marriage of a Janet Gordon to a William Forbes in 1807 which is the right > era but before getting the certificate can anyone tell me what they think > wether I have found the right family or not > Many Thanks > Marilyn > Melbourne > Australia > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Without further info, how we we be able to figure this one out? and there is no cert.......until after 1855.......but without any other info none of us can help UNLESS someone has this line. When you ask for help you need to tell us how you arrived at this Wm Forbes and what you have to back it up. The rest of us have no idea.....it's like chasing a parked car.......More info...........Goldie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marilyn" <marilyn.king@optusnet.com.au> To: <aberdeen@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 6:42 PM Subject: [ABERDEEN] Janet /Jane Gordon > Hi All, > I have ancestors William Forbes who married a Jane Gordon, I have found a > marriage of a Janet Gordon to a William Forbes in 1807 which is the right > era but before getting the certificate can anyone tell me what they think > wether I have found the right family or not > Many Thanks > Marilyn > Melbourne > Australia > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi I'm not sure about the Australian Army but the Navy have a special military passport. I have a son in the Navy and he is currently on operation in the Gulf. Judy Tasmania

HI   In the US the military do not use passports in WW1 OR WW2. THat was the question about passport's during WW1. Passports were a new item at the time. EllisIsland started to record passport infor about 1930's.   Vicki --- On Sat, 1/30/10, Judy Cocker <judycocker@bigpond.com> wrote: From: Judy Cocker <judycocker@bigpond.com> Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] passports and war travel To: aberdeen@rootsweb.com Date: Saturday, January 30, 2010, 9:12 PM Hi I'm not sure about the Australian Army but the Navy have a special military passport. I have a son in the Navy and he is currently on operation in the Gulf. Judy Tasmania ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello, My ex-husband was with the Canadian Armed Forces (Army), and he had a military passport issued that he had to carry at all times when overseas. I don't know if this applied during the world wars and Korean War, but it has applied since then. Kathy Stevenson Ontario, Canada > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 13:12:52 +1100 > From: Judy Cocker <judycocker@bigpond.com> > Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] passports and war travel > To: aberdeen@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <4B64E724.9000201@bigpond.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Hi > I'm not sure about the Australian Army but the Navy have a special > military passport. I have a son in the Navy and he is currently on > operation in the Gulf. > Judy > Tasmania >

HI   The answer to your question is NO.   Everything is done through the Military and any ID is done through the Military.   Unless they are civilians did they need a passport. Do the soldiers today need a passport to go to war???? NO!!!   Vicki   --- On Mon, 1/25/10, liza stuart <lizastart@yahoo.ca> wrote: From: liza stuart <lizastart@yahoo.ca> Subject: [ABERDEEN] passports and war travel To: aberdeen@rootsweb.com Date: Monday, January 25, 2010, 6:08 PM Hi all,Re:  WW1 and Passports for Army Did soldiers need a passport to travel to France?I got my ancestor's military records from NA and there was no passport listed.Thanks for any info.Liz       __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message