Gavin, I'm afraid this is probably just a story, told me by my father about 50 years ago. However, I think he did claim that he had read it in a newspaper. Tony ---- Gavin Bell <g.bell@which.net> wrote: > wrentony@ntlworld.com wrote: > > > "Both consent"? I suppose that makes nonsense of one of my favourite > > stories:- > > > > Couple had been married for many years, but husband wanted out. He > > confessed to bigamy, having been married some years previous to the > > present "marriage". Present marriage was declared invalid, and > > husband jailed. Meanwhile first wife had died. Second "wife" then > > claimed marriage by repute, and this was upheld. > > > That is a good one. And I don't see that the need for consent would in > any way invalidate the constitution of a marriage "by habit and repute" > - in the nature of things, this is not an event, but a process, and is > validated largely by the general behavious of the parties over a period > of time, and their reception in the community. The man consented to the > arrangement at the outset, and I am fairly sure that a later change of > mind would be disregarded by the courts. In fact, one of the other > forms of irregular marriage "promise 'subsequently copula'" is designed > specifically to catch cheating male partners. > > But do you by any chance have chapter and verse for this story? - I'm > not seeking to cast doubt, but I would be very interested to learn the > nuts-and-bolts of it. > > For instance, a fairly basic principle of marriage is that both parties > must, at the time of the marriage, be free to marry each other (ie, over > 16, not related to each other in any of the forbidden degrees, and not > married to anyone else). > > So I would be very interested to know the relative dates of various > events, including: > > - the "husband's" abandonment of his first (presumably valid?) marriage > - the first wife's death > - the date of the second (apparently valid?) marriage > - "husband's" admission of bigamy and jailing > - declaration of marriage "by habit and repute" > > I would also be interested to know (assuming this took place post-1855) > whether and how the marriage was then registered. > > > Gavin Bell > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Ray I don't know if you have tried this site in your search for James Bishop http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=home As the name implies it is a pilot website of the LDS Church and I find it pretty amazing for US and Canadian records. I had a great uncle who just vanished from records after 1871 but I found him in San Francisco in the 1900 USA census records on this site. Unfortunately he then disappears again but this may be due to the San Francisco earthquake and fire of 1906 which destroyed a lot of documents. However I did turn up the actual image of the marriage licence of James Bishop and Mary Meldrum in Cook County, Illinois and the signed off date of 4 May 1874. The 1900 census for Cook County has a James Bishop born Illinois Aug 1954 and classed as Widower. The 1860 census has a James Bishop age 6 at Macoupin, Illinois possibly the same fellow. The other thing I like about the pilot site is that it is free and most of the images which can be downloaded are also free Regards George On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 6:21 PM, Suzanne Walker <swalker7736@yahoo.com>wrote: > Hi Ray. You may already be aware of the following, but the State of > Illinois has a pretty robust set of databases available online. It might be > worth scouting around a bit to see if there's anything that would help you > narrow down what became of your James BISHOP (or at least eliminate some > other James Bishops from consideration). > > http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/departments/archives/databases.html > > Regards, Suzanne Walker > > > --------------- > On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 17:25:48 Ray Hennessy wrote: > > ... We are looking for a James BISHOP, > Sheena's great-grandfather. He married Mary Ann MELDRUM of Ellon in > Chicago in 1874 and they had a daughter, Margaret BISHOP in 1876 in > Richmond Illinois. > > Mary Ann and Margaret were back in Ellon by 1881 without James and we > have been unable to discover anything about him. the family story is > that he was left behind in the US but, as we can't find him for > certain on any US Census, we are wondering if he returned to Scotland > [if indeed he came from Scotland!!]. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- George Brander Torre de la Horadada España

Lynne Uhler wrote: > Hello, everyone: > > I've found a transcription on Ancestry.com and believe it's wrong, but > without the actual image, cannot confirm it. 1901 census living on > Charlotte St., Fraserburg, household #202. Transcription says: > Christian Nicol, 42, b. Longside > Elisa Nicol, 23, b. Savoch > relationship = daughter > > Hello again Lynne, A further look at the image shows that Eliza was born, according to the census, in Strichen not Savoch. I've double checked and I am looking at household #202. Regards, David

Thanks George We actually have the original marriage certificate which by some miracle was preserved through 130 years and many hands so we know what there is to know about the marriage. Unfortunately there is very little information on it except that James was from Winnetka and the marriage was in Cook County. We also have an index entry of the birth of their daughter in Richmond IL. As we have no age for James BISHOP finding him is a bit hit or miss. I'm hoping we will be able to find an entry on the 1870 or 1880 Census records giving an age but so far no luck. I'll have a scan on the LDS site, thanks, and see where that gets me. We are also trying to find out how and when Mary MELDRUM went to the US and whether she took her young son [Thomas Anderson KING, born 1867] with her. It's all very obscure but we keep on trying. Thanks again to you and the others who have offered help& advice Ray On 21 February 2010 14:45, George Brander <george.brander@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Ray > > I don't know if you have tried this site in your search for James Bishop > http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=home > > As the name implies it is a pilot website of the LDS Church and I find it pretty amazing for US and Canadian records. I had a great uncle who just vanished from records after 1871 but I found him in San Francisco in the 1900 USA census records on this site. Unfortunately he then disappears again but this may be due to the San Francisco earthquake and fire of 1906 which destroyed a lot of documents. > > However I did turn up the actual image of the marriage licence of James Bishop and Mary Meldrum in Cook County, Illinois and the signed off date of 4 May 1874. The 1900 census for Cook County has a James Bishop born Illinois Aug 1954 and classed as Widower. The 1860 census has a James Bishop age 6 at Macoupin, Illinois possibly the same fellow. > > The other thing I like about the pilot site is that it is free and most of the images which can be downloaded are also free > > Regards > > George > > -- > George Brander > Torre de la Horadada > España

Lynne Uhler wrote: > Hello, everyone: > > I've found a transcription on Ancestry.com and believe it's wrong, but > without the actual image, cannot confirm it. 1901 census living on > Charlotte St., Fraserburg, household #202. Transcription says: > Christian Nicol, 42, b. Longside > Elisa Nicol, 23, b. Savoch > relationship = daughter > > Hi Lynne, I've looked at the image online using my tv as the monitor so I could get the largest image possible and, unquestionably, it says 42. There is another Christian Nicol on Charlotte Street, aged 7?, can't tell exactly what, but she was born in Lonmay. Cheers, David Smith

There is always the possibility that the 71 year old mother was biologically the grandmother but Elisa grew up as her daughter...never knowing her 'sister' Christian was actually her mother. -----Original Message----- >From: Gavin Bell <g.bell@which.net> >Sent: Feb 21, 2010 1:37 PM >To: aberdeen@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] 1901 census images anyone? > >Lynne Uhler wrote: > >> I've found a transcription on Ancestry.com and believe it's wrong, but >> without the actual image, cannot confirm it. 1901 census living on >> Charlotte St., Fraserburg, household #202. Transcription says: >> Christian Nicol, 42, b. Longside >> Elisa Nicol, 23, b. Savoch >> relationship = daughter >> >> If some kind soul has access to the actual image, would you please check >> Christian Nicol's age for me. If she is mother to Eliza, her age >> should be about 71. If she is instead Eliza's older sister Christian, >> her age would be 55 [and she'd be low-balling her age as 42]. > > >Are you sure about that? > >A mother aged 71 when her daughter was 23 would mean that the daughter >was born when the mother was 48 - not impossible, but unlikely. > >And sisters whose ages differ by 32 years (55 minus 23) is also on the >extreme edge of the biologically feasible. > >I would be more inclined to take the information at face value (even >though it is from an Ancestry transcription) namely that Christian named >was, indeed, 42, and had, aged 19, borne a daughter now aged 23. There >may well be a second "Christian Nichol" aged 71 somewhere, and another >aged 55 - the combination of names is unlikely to be unique. > >> I want to >> confirm that Christian Nicol b. Longside 1830 is still alive in 1901. > >The easiest and most reliable way to confirm the all the relevant >relationships would be via Scotlandspeople (which will also give you >access to the Census image): > >(1) If Christian was aged 42 in 1901, then she would have been born in >1858-9, and her birth will be recorded in the Statutory Registers. > >(2) Elisa's birth will also be recorded, along with the names of her >parents. > >(3) If the Christian who was born in 1830 survived until at least 1855, >then her death should also be recorded. > > >Gavin Bell > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Joanie

On 20 February 2010 17:21, Suzanne Walker <swalker7736@yahoo.com> wrote: > Hi Ray.  You may already be aware of the following, but the State of Illinois has a pretty robust set of databases available online.  It might be worth scouting around a bit to see if there's anything that would help you narrow down what became of your James BISHOP (or at least eliminate some other James Bishops from consideration). > > http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/departments/archives/databases.html > > Regards, Suzanne Walker ------------------------------------- Thanks Suzanne. I did scan through the records a few years ago but the database has grown a bit since then. I've had a look through the Illinois death record indexes but unfortunately none of them look very likely. After 1916 the age is mostly "unknown" so isn't very helpful. Before 1916 one James BISHOP died in 1894 aged 58 so would have been a not unreasonable age when ours married [38]. There is another who died in 1878 who would have been 19 at the marriage date while Mary Ann MELDRUM was about 30. Not impossible but a bit unlikely as she returned in the late 1870s saying she had "left her husband" for personal reasons. If he had died in 1878, we think she would have said so. Still we will be going to Chicago later this year and will try to get hold of copies of the relevant certificates. Thanks again for sending the URL. I'll try the Census records too when we get there but the relevant ones aren't indexed so it may be too much for a flying visit. -- Best wishes Ray ********************************************************** >From Ray Hennessy Forenames website: www.whatsinaname.net Preferred Email address: ray@whatsinaname.net Hints for Scotland's People at http://bit.ly/WIAN-SCP **********************************************************

Thank you very much for checking it for me, David. Lynne David Smith wrote: > Lynne Uhler wrote: > >> Hello, everyone: >> >> I've found a transcription on Ancestry.com and believe it's wrong, but >> without the actual image, cannot confirm it. 1901 census living on >> Charlotte St., Fraserburg, household #202. Transcription says: >> Christian Nicol, 42, b. Longside >> Elisa Nicol, 23, b. Savoch >> relationship = daughter >> >> >> > Hi Lynne, > > I've looked at the image online using my tv as the monitor so I could > get the largest image possible and, unquestionably, it says 42. > There is another Christian Nicol on Charlotte Street, aged 7?, can't > tell exactly what, but she was born in Lonmay. > > > Cheers, > > David Smith > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

In a Scottish context the term 'irregular marriage' generally refers to marriages contracted between parties without the benefit of officiating clergy of the established church, i.e. Church of Scotland. As has already been said 'irregular' marriages does not necessarily mean that so called marriages were not lagal or that the children were deemed illegitimate.  As I understand it, under Scottish Law,  children born of parents who were considered married by habit and repute enjoyed the same inheritance rights as children of a regular marriage. In the past year I was involved with others preparing a DGFHS publication on Irish Marriages in Portpatrick (sometimes referred to as the Gretna Green of the South West)  While this post is not striclty relevant to the current thread and doesn't relate to Aberdeenshire and the NEast it does relate to a particular sort of marriage irregularity which may be of interest to some.   The following describes a situation where C of S ministers took advantage of local circumstances to reinterpreted the church rules relating to marriage so as to run a small but lucrative 'business' to provide 'quick' marriages for couples who could afford the fees. Between 1759 and 1826 some 234 Irish marriages are recorded in the Portpatrick Register. Most but not all of the marriages recorded were conducted by the local C of S minister Rev. Dr. John Mackenzie during a ministry of 64 years. During the period referred to a regular packet boat ran between Portpatrick and Donaghadee on the coast of Co. Down in Ireland. The Parish Registers show how the arrangements were well organised.  Apart from the minister and session clerk, the records show how local innkeepers and masters of the packet boats, frequently appearing as witnesses to the marriages. What it doesn't show is that they shared in the fees charged but I would take that s a given.  The record further shows how a pool of other local persons of some standing, such as merchants or officials of the Excise or Customs, could be called on as witnesses.  The Rev Mackenzie’s wife and daughters are also shown to participate in his 'business'. In the earlier years of the 18th century the church’s marriage law required, apart from the need for the parties to be legally free to marry, a settlement of 40 days in the parish and the proclamation of banns three times before the congregation on consecutive sabbaths.  By the middle of the century it had become accepted practice, on payment of a higher fee, for banns to be proclaimed three times on one Sunday instead of successive Sundays and that opened one loophole to be exploited.  Another was provided by a relaxation at seaports, intended for the benefit of mariners, in the settlement rule.  In Portpatrick a couple from Ireland could, after having been proclaimed three times in an empty church, be married and back on the boat or at their inn with their certificate within an hour of landing.     The entries which appear in the parish register for Irish marriages are, in most cases, copies of the certificate which the session clerk gave to the parties and are signed by bridegroom, bride, minister and witnesses.  While the record of a local wedding occupies no more than two or three lines and would not involve the issuing of certificates, these Irish marriage, carefully and boldly written and includes all the signatures, could take up most of a page.   Whether this particular form of marriage irregularity is uneque to the South West or not I do not know.

Thank you, Gavin: Oddly enough, Eliza was born in ~1877 to Christian Murray Nicol [b.1830 in Longside] and her husband, George Nicol [b. 1817 in Logie Buchan] and she was their last child. Eliza was 4 in the 1881 census, 14 in the 1891 census and now '23' on this 1901. Christian Murray Nicol & her husband, George Nicol, also had a daughter Christian, b. ~1847 in Longside. Daughter Christian was 3 on the 1851 census; 13 on the 1861 census, a servant in another household in 1871. Since both mother and daughter Christians were b. Longside and the only person in this constellation with the right age and location is Eliza at age 23, I am hoping to get a glimpse of the original to then make a more educated judgment. Thank you for the suggestion I look on Scotland's People. I understood them to be a subscription site, Lynne Gavin Bell wrote: > Lynne Uhler wrote: > > >> I've found a transcription on Ancestry.com and believe it's wrong, but >> without the actual image, cannot confirm it. 1901 census living on >> Charlotte St., Fraserburg, household #202. Transcription says: >> Christian Nicol, 42, b. Longside >> Elisa Nicol, 23, b. Savoch >> relationship = daughter >> >> If some kind soul has access to the actual image, would you please check >> Christian Nicol's age for me. If she is mother to Eliza, her age >> should be about 71. If she is instead Eliza's older sister Christian, >> her age would be 55 [and she'd be low-balling her age as 42]. >> > > > Are you sure about that? > > A mother aged 71 when her daughter was 23 would mean that the daughter > was born when the mother was 48 - not impossible, but unlikely. > > And sisters whose ages differ by 32 years (55 minus 23) is also on the > extreme edge of the biologically feasible. > > I would be more inclined to take the information at face value (even > though it is from an Ancestry transcription) namely that Christian named > was, indeed, 42, and had, aged 19, borne a daughter now aged 23. There > may well be a second "Christian Nichol" aged 71 somewhere, and another > aged 55 - the combination of names is unlikely to be unique. > > >> I want to >> confirm that Christian Nicol b. Longside 1830 is still alive in 1901. >> > > The easiest and most reliable way to confirm the all the relevant > relationships would be via Scotlandspeople (which will also give you > access to the Census image): > > (1) If Christian was aged 42 in 1901, then she would have been born in > 1858-9, and her birth will be recorded in the Statutory Registers. > > (2) Elisa's birth will also be recorded, along with the names of her > parents. > > (3) If the Christian who was born in 1830 survived until at least 1855, > then her death should also be recorded. > > > Gavin Bell > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Hello, everyone: I've found a transcription on Ancestry.com and believe it's wrong, but without the actual image, cannot confirm it. 1901 census living on Charlotte St., Fraserburg, household #202. Transcription says: Christian Nicol, 42, b. Longside Elisa Nicol, 23, b. Savoch relationship = daughter If some kind soul has access to the actual image, would you please check Christian Nicol's age for me. If she is mother to Eliza, her age should be about 71. If she is instead Eliza's older sister Christian, her age would be 55 [and she'd be low-balling her age as 42]. I want to confirm that Christian Nicol b. Longside 1830 is still alive in 1901. Thank you for your help, Lynne

wrentony@ntlworld.com wrote: > "Both consent"? I suppose that makes nonsense of one of my favourite > stories:- > > Couple had been married for many years, but husband wanted out. He > confessed to bigamy, having been married some years previous to the > present "marriage". Present marriage was declared invalid, and > husband jailed. Meanwhile first wife had died. Second "wife" then > claimed marriage by repute, and this was upheld. That is a good one. And I don't see that the need for consent would in any way invalidate the constitution of a marriage "by habit and repute" - in the nature of things, this is not an event, but a process, and is validated largely by the general behavious of the parties over a period of time, and their reception in the community. The man consented to the arrangement at the outset, and I am fairly sure that a later change of mind would be disregarded by the courts. In fact, one of the other forms of irregular marriage "promise 'subsequently copula'" is designed specifically to catch cheating male partners. But do you by any chance have chapter and verse for this story? - I'm not seeking to cast doubt, but I would be very interested to learn the nuts-and-bolts of it. For instance, a fairly basic principle of marriage is that both parties must, at the time of the marriage, be free to marry each other (ie, over 16, not related to each other in any of the forbidden degrees, and not married to anyone else). So I would be very interested to know the relative dates of various events, including: - the "husband's" abandonment of his first (presumably valid?) marriage - the first wife's death - the date of the second (apparently valid?) marriage - "husband's" admission of bigamy and jailing - declaration of marriage "by habit and repute" I would also be interested to know (assuming this took place post-1855) whether and how the marriage was then registered. Gavin Bell

Schani, I have a Donald McGILLIVRAY b abt 1885 to William McGILLIVRAY & Margaret MAIR, married Rose GRANT (actually Rose Grant PIRIE, illeg d/o Jane PIRIE, father u/k) . "25-6-1913 Crown Temperence Hotel Banff, CoS. Donald McGillivray joiner, 28-bach, Mill of Balmaud parish of King Edward, of William McGillivray cattleman and Margaret McGillivray ms Mair. Rose Grant housekeeper, 27-single [act 28], Moss-side of Montbletton parish of Gamrie, of Jane Pirie domestic servant. Wit: James McGillivray and May Murdoch." - Marr-1913-147/A(Banff)-26. I cannot find any children of the marriage nor the parents' deaths. Maybe he was killed in WWI: there are a few candidates but I cannot tell if any are him. Maybe they emigrated (this is possibly the more likely scenario). Hope this helps. Howard Geddes

"Both consent"? I suppose that makes nonsense of one of my favourite stories:- Couple had been married for many years, but husband wanted out. He confessed to bigamy, having been married some years previous to the present "marriage". Present marriage was declared invalid, and husband jailed. Meanwhile first wife had died. Second "wife" then claimed marriage by repute, and this was upheld. Tony ---- Ray Hennessy <ray7033@googlemail.com> wrote: > On 20 February 2010 15:33, Gordon Johnson <gordon@kinhelp.co.uk> wrote: > > > ** According to the book "Marriages, regular and irregular", by "an Advocate" (William Hodge, Glasgow, 1893), any of these irregular marriages only are legal if both parties are free to marry, and both consent to the apparent marriage. Gordon. > ------------------------------------- > > Thanks Gordon, that looks pretty clear and logical [not commonly found > in legal discourses!!]. Of course we are still no nearer discovering > if James BISHOP formed a pseudo-bigamous liaison later. > Unfortunately, if he did so, there is not much chance that such a > situation would be recorded anywhere, e.g. on his death certificate. > > -- > Best wishes > > Ray > > ********************************************************** > >From Ray Hennessy > Forenames website: www.whatsinaname.net > Preferred Email address: ray@whatsinaname.net > Hints for Scotland's People at http://bit.ly/WIAN-SCP > ********************************************************** > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Does any one actually know of a couple who were married by habit and repute? Would be intersesting to hear of this. Lorraine ________________________________ From: "wrentony@ntlworld.com" <wrentony@ntlworld.com> To: aberdeen@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, 21 February, 2010 15:51:43 Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] Marriage by Habit and REpute Gavin, I'm afraid this is probably just a story, told me by my father about 50 years ago.  However, I think he did claim that he had read it in a newspaper. Tony ---- Gavin Bell <g.bell@which.net> wrote: > wrentony@ntlworld.com wrote: > > > "Both consent"?  I suppose that makes nonsense of one of my favourite > > stories:- > > > > Couple had been married for many years, but husband wanted out.  He > > confessed to bigamy, having been married some years previous to the > > present "marriage".  Present marriage was declared invalid, and > > husband jailed.  Meanwhile first wife had died.  Second "wife" then > > claimed marriage by repute, and this was upheld. > > > That is a good one.  And I don't see that the need for consent would in > any way invalidate the constitution of a marriage "by habit and repute" > - in the nature of things, this is not an event, but a process, and is > validated largely by the general behavious of the parties over a period > of time, and their reception in the community.  The man consented to the > arrangement at the outset, and I am fairly sure that a later change of > mind would be disregarded by the courts.  In fact, one of the other > forms of irregular marriage "promise 'subsequently copula'" is designed > specifically to catch cheating male partners. > > But do you by any chance have chapter and verse for this story?  - I'm > not seeking to cast doubt, but I would be very interested to learn the > nuts-and-bolts of it. > > For instance, a fairly basic principle of marriage is that both parties > must, at the time of the marriage, be free to marry each other (ie, over > 16, not related to each other in any of the forbidden degrees, and not > married to anyone else). > > So I would be very interested to know the relative dates of various > events, including: > > - the "husband's" abandonment of his first (presumably valid?) marriage > - the first wife's death > - the date of the second (apparently valid?) marriage > - "husband's" admission of bigamy and jailing > - declaration of marriage "by habit and repute" > > I would also be interested to know (assuming this took place post-1855) > whether and how the marriage was then registered. > > > Gavin Bell >  > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ABERDEEN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Gordon Johnson wrote: > ** According to the book "Marriages, regular and irregular", by "an > Advocate" (William Hodge, Glasgow, 1893), any of these irregular > marriages only are legal if both parties are free to marry, and both > consent to the apparent marriage. That sounds like an interesting book. Does he say anything about the mechanics of Irregular Marriages, and in particular, how a marriage "with habit and repute" or by "promise 'subsequente copula'" might have been brought in line with the separate legal requirement to register marriages? The mechanism for having marriages "by declaration" accepted by the Registrar are fairly well known, but I am puzzled as to how the other two types might have been homologated - or how the "deserted wife" of such a marriage might have gone about having her errant "husband" brought back into the conjugal fold. Gavin Bell

On 20 February 2010 15:33, Gordon Johnson <gordon@kinhelp.co.uk> wrote: > ** According to the book "Marriages, regular and irregular", by "an Advocate" (William Hodge, Glasgow, 1893), any of these irregular marriages only are legal if both parties are free to marry, and both consent to the apparent marriage. Gordon. ------------------------------------- Thanks Gordon, that looks pretty clear and logical [not commonly found in legal discourses!!]. Of course we are still no nearer discovering if James BISHOP formed a pseudo-bigamous liaison later. Unfortunately, if he did so, there is not much chance that such a situation would be recorded anywhere, e.g. on his death certificate. -- Best wishes Ray ********************************************************** >From Ray Hennessy Forenames website: www.whatsinaname.net Preferred Email address: ray@whatsinaname.net Hints for Scotland's People at http://bit.ly/WIAN-SCP **********************************************************

** According to the book "Marriages, regular and irregular", by "an Advocate" (William Hodge, Glasgow, 1893), any of these irregular marriages only are legal if both parties are free to marry, and both consent to the apparent marriage. Gordon.

Presently researching the McGillivray (variant spellings) family living in Cawdor, Nairnshire. Some family members are found on the Moray Libindx website, buried in some of the Kirkyards in Moray, known also as Elginshire i am trying to expand the following family and have hit some brick walls > a call to all listers for an exchange of info has helped in the past i have a Duncan Macgillivray (dyer, born ca1777) who married Henrietta Phimister in Cawdor (1804), and they aparently had eleven children. have not located all of them. Their son John (b. ca 1810) married a Margaret Macarthur > had six children, the eldest Charles married Catherine Garden/Gordon of Aberdeen (1873). Two sons, John Charles ,b. 1874 and Charles William, b. 1887 i have located on 1881/1891/1901 census returns. ON ScP online i found that catharine (Garden) McGillivray died in Gouroch, Renfrewshire in 1921 and possibly Charles McGillivray died in Cawdor in 1921 i have some 1841/1851 census off FREECEN which show some family members of the above McGillivrays, but not all an old Rootsweb posting indicated that: Charles married to Catherine Gordon/Garden has living descendants, amongst whom Dr. Donald Macgillivray of Glasgow. One of John's nephews apparently went to Canada. A further posting said that: "This connection in Canada was Donald Macgillivray born in Cawdor in 1826." can anyone make a connection to these McGillivrays?? any help as always is appreciated Schani Biermann, Canada

Hi Ray. You may already be aware of the following, but the State of Illinois has a pretty robust set of databases available online. It might be worth scouting around a bit to see if there's anything that would help you narrow down what became of your James BISHOP (or at least eliminate some other James Bishops from consideration). http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/departments/archives/databases.html Regards, Suzanne Walker --------------- On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 17:25:48 Ray Hennessy wrote: ... We are looking for a James BISHOP, Sheena's great-grandfather. He married Mary Ann MELDRUM of Ellon in Chicago in 1874 and they had a daughter, Margaret BISHOP in 1876 in Richmond Illinois. Mary Ann and Margaret were back in Ellon by 1881 without James and we have been unable to discover anything about him. the family story is that he was left behind in the US but, as we can't find him for certain on any US Census, we are wondering if he returned to Scotland [if indeed he came from Scotland!!].