On another Rootsweb List to which I am subscribed we have been having a discussion about education which moved to people needing to put a cross because they could not write their name for the purposes of official record. It seems that it was not necessarily because a person could not read or write but that the requirement was to write a name in English, rather than Gaelic and some could not write their name in English. Could the historians amongst us tell us more about it? We know that not every person had an education sufficient to enable them to read or write but the incidence where language was the reason is of interest. I think we need to know rather than draw the wrong conclusions. Janet

AND... is it the same one, Les? I found that so helpful, and the 'new and improved' (?) system so useless. Reminds me of an old expression..."If it ain't broke don't fix it"...I know, I know, life goes on and someone is always 'fixing' things'. Likely that's all good, but sometimes the OLD works as well. Regards to all from the capital of "Wasp County", Kamloops BC Canada, Goldie -----Original Message----- From: Les Horn Sent: Monday, September 02, 2013 3:14 PM To: Aberdeen Rootsweb List Cc: Sharon Lamb Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] Off topic Sharon asked > Sorry to bother you, but I don't remember HOW to get to the OLD family > search.org site. I presume your looking for the old IGI. If so click on Search. Click on "All Published Record Collections." Start to type "International Genealogical . . ." in the Filter by Collection name box and voila !! Regards Les ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi: Sorry to bother you, but I don't remember HOW to get to the OLD family search.org site. Hopefully it hasn't been deleted as I think there was mention of it recently Thanks Sharon

The records for Sunnyside Lunatic Asylum are held by Dundee University Archives. The list of holdings in THB23 is being processed according to their web site. I have the previous list on file which shows the archives include staff records 1861 -1957 as well as patient records, newspaper cuttings, photographs, etc. May be worth contacting them to confirm if he appears in the staff records and - as a long-shot - the photographs of staff Dundee University Archives THB 23 Sunnyside Royal Hospital 1781-1995 Bye-laws, Charters and Regulations, 1811-1913; Minutes, 1797-1971; Reports, 1835-1961; Patient Records, 1813-1990; Patient Clinical Records, 1818-1962; Staff Records, 1861-1957; Visitors Books, 1891-1991; Deeds Registers, 1856-1915; Legal Documents, 1856-1945; Financial Records, 1808-1983; Administrative Records, 1911-1991; Property Records, 1885-1969; Sunnyside Bi-Centenary Celebration Records, 1976-1981; Leisure and Recreation Records, 1870-1990; Sunnyside Bowling Club Records, 1973-1995; The Sunnyside Chronicle, 1887-1973; Newspaper Cuttings, c1858-1929; Publications, 1808-1988; Photographs, c1887-1990; Audio Cassettes, 1982; Plans, 1856-1950. John

Hello June, Your surname is a magnet to me. May I write to you off-list, please? Gail Riddell On 30/08/2013, at 7:32 PM, June Riddell wrote: > At one time most of the countryside mental hospitals were like a small > village with a lot of staff accomodation,some living in cottages on the > grounds or in the nurses home,not all the staff lived out. I recall > looking up the father of one of my uncles as Gran had claimed for > "maintainence" and it said he was an inmate at a mental institution,turned > out he was a live in porter

On 30/08/2013 09:59, Janet wrote: > I think this was what was in my mind when I first posted. I wondered if the family had > fallen on hard times and had been "admitted" to Sunnyside because there was no where else > for them to go. That is *extremely* unlikely, simply in terms of cost. From the Poor Law records of Aberdour, ABD it appears that, while the rate of "outdoor relief" for a mother with 2 children was around 2 shillings per week (or around £5 per year) the cost to the Parochial Board of keeping a single individual in the Lunatic Asylum was over £40 per year. Gavin Bell

There was a laundry at Sunnyside where there was a matron and staff and patients worked there too. The matron lived in a flat above the laundry. This was before during and after WW11. When she retired I don't think she was replaced. There was a thriving farm which won prizes for their bulls. A shop and small tea room was quite near the laundry as I recall. My father worked at the laundry and my mother worked there during the war. As a child I visited quite a few times.   Bette From: Inez Reed <[email protected]> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, 30 August 2013, 1:08 Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] Residence: Sunnyside Lunatic Asylum. Those in residential care were generally referred to as either inmates or patients depending on the view of the census taker. Staffers generally had an occupation listed such as nurse, doctor, attendant. In the States, at least, I've seen very little notes on the patients' former occupation or status. Inez ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

June, I ought to have thanked you for your contribution, and those of others too. I have searched more about Sunnyside, Scotland's first Lunatic Asylum, and there doesn't seem to be much doubt about its purpose for those who were "lunatic" rather than it being a place where paupers might be sent, as in a Poor House. I first found James GORDON at Sunnyside in 1901 census and was surprised when I also found his daughter, her husband, and the children there too. I brought the details to this List for record purposes about where families might be found in a variety of circumstances. I believe the records of Sunnyside are in existence so will report back if I find anything worth recording. Janet ----- Original Message ----- From: " June Riddell" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, August 30, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] Residence: Sunnyside Lunatic Asylum. > At one time most of the countryside mental hospitals were like a small > village with a lot of staff accomodation,some living in cottages on the > grounds or in the nurses home,not all the staff lived out. I recall > looking up the father of one of my uncles as Gran had claimed for > "maintainence" and it said he was an inmate at a mental institution,turned > out he was a live in porter > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Janet" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 3:07 AM > Subject: [ABERDEEN] Residence: Sunnyside Lunatic Asylum. > > >>I appreciate the address is Montrose 1901 but I wonder if someone can >>advise me. >> I find a father in law whose address has been transcribed as being at >> Sunnyside Lunatic >> Asylum. I understand that he may not necessarily have been lacking any >> capacity to be at >> the address, in circumstances where he needed not to be living alone or >> for health reasons >> (?) >> The entry in the census includes father in law who is a Plumber, with >> daughter, husband >> and 4 children of their marriage, all living at Sunnyside Lunatic Asylum, >> Montrose. I >> could blame the transcription if justified, but surely who ever is >> responsible wouldnt >> have clutched the address out of thin air. Does this sound right for the >> social >> circumstances in 1901? >> >> >> Janet >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with > the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I think this was what was in my mind when I first posted. I wondered if the family had fallen on hard times and had been "admitted" to Sunnyside because there was no where else for them to go. I hoped someone might have knowledge about the circumstances where this might happen before I considered anything else. I suppose a plumber would be needed at Sunnyside at some point in time dependent on the plumbing in such a building, so now I have to make some further enquiries. The surname of the family is COLLISON in case any one is interested. My ancestor was Mary GORDON who married William COLLISON the plumber on 20 Oct 1866 in Dundee Mary's parents were James GORDON and Isabella CUTHILL 1869. Isabella died of puerperal fever 7 days after the birth of her 12th child William Ross GORDON in 1861. James GORDON married again to Elizabeth WATSON on 23 March 1869 Janet ----- Original Message ----- From: " June Riddell" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, August 30, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] Residence: Sunnyside Lunatic Asylum. > At one time most of the countryside mental hospitals were like a small > village with a lot of staff accomodation,some living in cottages on the > grounds or in the nurses home,not all the staff lived out. I recall > looking up the father of one of my uncles as Gran had claimed for > "maintainence" and it said he was an inmate at a mental institution,turned > out he was a live in porter > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Janet" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 3:07 AM > Subject: [ABERDEEN] Residence: Sunnyside Lunatic Asylum. > > >>I appreciate the address is Montrose 1901 but I wonder if someone can >>advise me. >> I find a father in law whose address has been transcribed as being at >> Sunnyside Lunatic >> Asylum. I understand that he may not necessarily have been lacking any >> capacity to be at >> the address, in circumstances where he needed not to be living alone or >> for health reasons >> (?) >> The entry in the census includes father in law who is a Plumber, with >> daughter, husband >> and 4 children of their marriage, all living at Sunnyside Lunatic Asylum, >> Montrose. I >> could blame the transcription if justified, but surely who ever is >> responsible wouldnt >> have clutched the address out of thin air. Does this sound right for the >> social >> circumstances in 1901? >> >> >> Janet >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with > the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Son in law's occupation was given as "plumber". Janet ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Brander" <[email protected]> To: "Aberdeen" <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2013 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] Residence: Sunnyside Lunatic Asylum. Janet - could they have been living in the staff accommodation at Sunnyside? George George Brander Torre de la Horadada España On 28 August 2013 17:07, Janet <[email protected]> wrote: > I appreciate the address is Montrose 1901 but I wonder if someone can > advise me. > I find a father in law whose address has been transcribed as being at > Sunnyside Lunatic > Asylum. I understand that he may not necessarily have been lacking any > capacity to be at > the address, in circumstances where he needed not to be living alone or > for health reasons > (?) > The entry in the census includes father in law who is a Plumber, with > daughter, husband > and 4 children of their marriage, all living at Sunnyside Lunatic Asylum, > Montrose. I > could blame the transcription if justified, but surely who ever is > responsible wouldnt > have clutched the address out of thin air. Does this sound right for the > social > circumstances in 1901? > > > Janet > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

interesting web site http://www.sunnyside.me.uk/the_new_asylum.html George Brander Torre de la Horadada España On 29 August 2013 23:10, park louise <[email protected]> wrote: > That was my first thought too on reading the latter part - that he was some > sort of live-in maintenance person. > > Louise > > > On 29 August 2013 21:51, George Brander <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Janet - could they have been living in the staff accommodation at > > Sunnyside? > > George > > > > George Brander > > Torre de la Horadada > > España > > > > > > On 28 August 2013 17:07, Janet <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I appreciate the address is Montrose 1901 but I wonder if someone can > > > advise me. > > > I find a father in law whose address has been transcribed as being at > > > Sunnyside Lunatic > > > Asylum. I understand that he may not necessarily have been lacking any > > > capacity to be at > > > the address, in circumstances where he needed not to be living alone or > > > for health reasons > > > (?) > > > The entry in the census includes father in law who is a Plumber, with > > > daughter, husband > > > and 4 children of their marriage, all living at Sunnyside Lunatic > Asylum, > > > Montrose. I > > > could blame the transcription if justified, but surely who ever is > > > responsible wouldnt > > > have clutched the address out of thin air. Does this sound right for > > the > > > social > > > circumstances in 1901? > > > > > > > > > Janet > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Janet - could they have been living in the staff accommodation at Sunnyside? George George Brander Torre de la Horadada España On 28 August 2013 17:07, Janet <[email protected]> wrote: > I appreciate the address is Montrose 1901 but I wonder if someone can > advise me. > I find a father in law whose address has been transcribed as being at > Sunnyside Lunatic > Asylum. I understand that he may not necessarily have been lacking any > capacity to be at > the address, in circumstances where he needed not to be living alone or > for health reasons > (?) > The entry in the census includes father in law who is a Plumber, with > daughter, husband > and 4 children of their marriage, all living at Sunnyside Lunatic Asylum, > Montrose. I > could blame the transcription if justified, but surely who ever is > responsible wouldnt > have clutched the address out of thin air. Does this sound right for the > social > circumstances in 1901? > > > Janet > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

That was my first thought too on reading the latter part - that he was some sort of live-in maintenance person. Louise On 29 August 2013 21:51, George Brander <[email protected]> wrote: > Janet - could they have been living in the staff accommodation at > Sunnyside? > George > > George Brander > Torre de la Horadada > España > > > On 28 August 2013 17:07, Janet <[email protected]> wrote: > > > I appreciate the address is Montrose 1901 but I wonder if someone can > > advise me. > > I find a father in law whose address has been transcribed as being at > > Sunnyside Lunatic > > Asylum. I understand that he may not necessarily have been lacking any > > capacity to be at > > the address, in circumstances where he needed not to be living alone or > > for health reasons > > (?) > > The entry in the census includes father in law who is a Plumber, with > > daughter, husband > > and 4 children of their marriage, all living at Sunnyside Lunatic Asylum, > > Montrose. I > > could blame the transcription if justified, but surely who ever is > > responsible wouldnt > > have clutched the address out of thin air. Does this sound right for > the > > social > > circumstances in 1901? > > > > > > Janet > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

At one time most of the countryside mental hospitals were like a small village with a lot of staff accomodation,some living in cottages on the grounds or in the nurses home,not all the staff lived out. I recall looking up the father of one of my uncles as Gran had claimed for "maintainence" and it said he was an inmate at a mental institution,turned out he was a live in porter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janet" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 3:07 AM Subject: [ABERDEEN] Residence: Sunnyside Lunatic Asylum. >I appreciate the address is Montrose 1901 but I wonder if someone can >advise me. > I find a father in law whose address has been transcribed as being at > Sunnyside Lunatic > Asylum. I understand that he may not necessarily have been lacking any > capacity to be at > the address, in circumstances where he needed not to be living alone or > for health reasons > (?) > The entry in the census includes father in law who is a Plumber, with > daughter, husband > and 4 children of their marriage, all living at Sunnyside Lunatic Asylum, > Montrose. I > could blame the transcription if justified, but surely who ever is > responsible wouldnt > have clutched the address out of thin air. Does this sound right for the > social > circumstances in 1901? > > > Janet > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Those in residential care were generally referred to as either inmates or patients depending on the view of the census taker. Staffers generally had an occupation listed such as nurse, doctor, attendant. In the States, at least, I've seen very little notes on the patients' former occupation or status. Inez

Just what I was thinking.....caretakers or some such?? Goldie -----Original Message----- From: George Brander Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2013 1:51 PM To: Aberdeen Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] Residence: Sunnyside Lunatic Asylum. Janet - could they have been living in the staff accommodation at Sunnyside? George George Brander Torre de la Horadada España On 28 August 2013 17:07, Janet <[email protected]> wrote: > I appreciate the address is Montrose 1901 but I wonder if someone can > advise me. > I find a father in law whose address has been transcribed as being at > Sunnyside Lunatic > Asylum. I understand that he may not necessarily have been lacking any > capacity to be at > the address, in circumstances where he needed not to be living alone or > for health reasons > (?) > The entry in the census includes father in law who is a Plumber, with > daughter, husband > and 4 children of their marriage, all living at Sunnyside Lunatic Asylum, > Montrose. I > could blame the transcription if justified, but surely who ever is > responsible wouldnt > have clutched the address out of thin air. Does this sound right for the > social > circumstances in 1901? > > > Janet > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I appreciate the address is Montrose 1901 but I wonder if someone can advise me. I find a father in law whose address has been transcribed as being at Sunnyside Lunatic Asylum. I understand that he may not necessarily have been lacking any capacity to be at the address, in circumstances where he needed not to be living alone or for health reasons (?) The entry in the census includes father in law who is a Plumber, with daughter, husband and 4 children of their marriage, all living at Sunnyside Lunatic Asylum, Montrose. I could blame the transcription if justified, but surely who ever is responsible wouldnt have clutched the address out of thin air. Does this sound right for the social circumstances in 1901? Janet

William, This information may help you if the documents you need are at NAS Quote: You can find a list of private record agents at http://www.asgra.co.uk/, should you wish to employ someone to undertake research on your behalf. However, the National Archives of Scotland accepts no responsibility for these record agents or for the quality or quantity of their work.End quote. Janet ----- Original Message ----- From: "william innes" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]>; "Aberdeen" <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 10:51 PM Subject: [ABERDEEN] Wills for 1954 and 1955 > Is there anyone who might have access to NAS as I am looking for copies > of wills for John Innes who died in 1954 and William Innes who died in > 1955.> > These are not available online and can only be viewed at their own > premises under the name of "Virtual Volumes".> > John Innes was my great uncle born on the 1 May 1870 and died on the 10 > Feb.1954 at the Stephen Hospital in Dufftown, Scotland. He was the > widower of Helen Stephen and both are buried in the Downan Cemetery.> > William Innes was my grandfather born in 1866 and who died in 1955 in > Dufftown, Scotland. He is buried in the Mortcloth Cemetery.> > They were the children of William Innes and Margaret Shaw.> > Can you help as I have all the births and deaths extracts for them.> > William In Montreal > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Is there anyone who might have access to NAS as I am looking for copies of wills for John Innes who died in 1954 and William Innes who died in 1955. These are not available online and can only be viewed at their own premises under the name of "Virtual Volumes". John Innes was my great uncle born on the 1 May 1870 and died on the 10 Feb.1954 at the Stephen Hospital in Dufftown, Scotland. He was the widower of Helen Stephen and both are buried in the Downan Cemetery. William Innes was my grandfather born in 1866 and who died in 1955 in Dufftown, Scotland. He is buried in the Mortcloth Cemetery. They were the children of William Innes and Margaret Shaw. Can you help as I have all the births and deaths extracts for them. William In Montreal

In case anyone is missing a FARQUHARSON branch on their tree .... William FARQUHARSON (b. 1738) m. 26 Jun 1761 in Keiff, Banffshire to Ann GORDON (b. 1741) William's parents: James FARQUHARSON of New Keith and Margaret DOWNIE of St Nicholas Ann's parents: John GORDON and Ann WALKER William and Ann are my 5th great grandparents. William and Ann children: Ch.1 William (b.1764 Banffshire; d. 1839 PEI, Canada) m. 02 Sep 1790 to Charlotte Helen BROWN (1771-1808, d/o Lawrence BROWN of Kirkoswald, Carrick and Jean JAMIESON of Banffshire) 7 children all in PEI, Canada Note - Charlotte also had 12 siblings BROWN and they were all born in PEI, Canada and lived there. Ch.2 Ann m. Robert FORDYCE (no more information) Ch.3 Isabella (no more information) Regards - Glen C. Bodie Web http://Bodie.CA Home mailto:[email protected] or mailto:[email protected] Cell mailto:[email protected] Snail Mail: 46 Georgia Wynd, Delta, BC, Canada V4M 1A5