Hello, Everyone. John Kerr’s ‘Scottish Education School and University from Early Times to 1908’ published by C.U.P. 1910 is now available in digital form and can be downloaded without charge from such sites as http://archive.org/ This book is an excellent source of answers to many of the questions raised in recent discussion. I would recommend attention to what Kerr wrote about the role of the S.P.C.K.S. in promoting education among Gaelic-speaking children. Regards, Alyson

Hello listers. I'm wondering if someone might be able to help - either with information or a path to get it. I am looking for the Margaret Wilson that married Joseph Ironside 18 Aug 1789 in Old Deer, Aberdeenshire, Scotland. The name appears in two different family trees using the same birth record - b. 8 april 1759. The second tree marries her to William Lillie 22 Aug 1785 and d. 29 Sep 1820 (with record from New Deer cemetery attesting). There is an 1851 census record showing Margaret living with her son Joseph and his wife, and her est. birth year is 1769 in Old Deer. Assuming this is actually the correct birth year, I still don't have a conclusive Old Deer birth record that matches. There is an Auchterless record in 1768 and 2 Old Deer records in 1765 and 1766. Is there a "best" way to match Margaret to her birth records, and therefore her parents? Thanks for your help! Cindy

No problem in my part of Canada either. I just get one copy of Janet's messages. Margaret Gibbs On 07/09/2013 5:44 PM, Goldie & Lido Doratti wrote: > not having that problem here in Canada.....all > is Ok..........Goldie > > -----Original Message----- From: > [email protected] Sent: Saturday, September > 07, 2013 5:32 PM To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] Language & Literacy in > Scotland and the Gaeliclanguage > > For some reason your emails are delivered four > times, all the same time. You might want to > look into that problem. > > J K Clark ---- Janet <[email protected]> > wrote: >> The age of 14 yrs to which you refer relating >> to the age when formal education may have >> ceased accords with information I have about >> a Trust for the education of a nephew I >> mentioned earlier

not having that problem here in Canada.....all is Ok..........Goldie -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2013 5:32 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] Language & Literacy in Scotland and the Gaeliclanguage For some reason your emails are delivered four times, all the same time. You might want to look into that problem. J K Clark ---- Janet <[email protected]> wrote: > The age of 14 yrs to which you refer relating to the age when formal > education may have > ceased accords with information I have about a Trust for the education of > a nephew I > mentioned earlier; the actual Trust was to continue until the child was > 21 yrs but its > purpose was to provide formal education, clothing, etc. I found a quote > in the name of > John Knox which confirms what has been shared here > http://www.ed.ac.uk/schools-departments/education/about-us/maps-estates-history/history/part-one > Quote: "Therefore we judge it necessary that every several church have a > schoolmaster > appointed, such a one as is able, at least, to teach Grammar and the Latin > tongue, if the > town be of any reputation. If it be [rural] .. then must either the Reader > or the Minister > there appointed take care over the children and youth of the parish, to > instruct them in > their first rudiments, and especially in the Catechism ..And further, we > think it > expedient that in every notable town .. there be erected a [High School] > in which the > Arts, at least Logic and Rhetoric, together with the tongues, shall be > read by sufficient > masters, for whom honest stipends must be appointed. ..Lastly, the great > schools called > Universities shall be replenished with those apt for learning". John Knox" > At first the > achievement of this aim proved difficult because of Scotland's relative > poverty and the > prevailing political circumstances, despite the continuing efforts of the > Kirk. However, > in 1696 the Scottish Parliament passed its 'Act for Setting Schools', > whereby every parish > not already equipped with a school was required to establish a schoolhouse > and to provide > for a schoolmaster. End Quote. It was the thought that a cross on a > certificate might not > have been an indication of illiteracy or being unable to sign one's name > that piqued my > interest when I started this thread. I would not have blamed any one > speaking Gaelic to > feel just a tad put out at having to sign their name in English after > 1855. > The year 1944 was when formal education became compulsory by Statute along > with the birth > of our National Health Service. > I found what looks to be an informative site "Transforming lives through > Learning" which > includes "The Making of industrial and urban Scotland" (Modern) looks very > comprehensive > about the people of Scotland. Under Education > http://www.educationscotland.gov.uk/scotlandshistory/makingindustrialurban/education/index.asp > just one link alongside a whole lot more. The Scots were prominent in the > Empire borne > out by their education. > > Janet > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[email protected]> > To: "Ronald and Laura" <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2013 5:59 AM > Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] Language & Literacy in Scotland and the > Gaeliclanguage > > > >I had checked my father's school records from Old > > Aberdeen earlier today as the abbrevation sounded > > familiar. He was the top student of his year when > > he graduated, and all through school all but one > > of his courses were marked "sup." for superior. > > HIs penmanship, however, was consistently "comt" > > (and I think that was generous -- "chicken > > scratches" would have been more apt :-) .) As > > others have mentioned, handwriting by even the > > working classes was often a thing of beauty. My > > father's father attended school in Old Deer until > > he was fourteen, and his letters home from the > > trenches of WW1 as an ordinary Private are models > > of copperplate penmanship. My father (b 1905) > > attended university and was an engineer, clever > > with his hands, so I don't know why his writing > > was so awful. > > > > Further to comments about the reputed superiority > > of Scottish education in the late 19th and early > > 20th centuries, my paternal grandparents had > > emigrated to Canada c1900 and my father and his > > two younger brothers were born here. When my > > father was coming up to school age, however, his > > parents packed up the family and returned to > > Aberdeen, where they were convinced their bright > > oldest son would receive a better education. I > > don't know if it was true or not, but that was > > their conviction. Certainly, looking at his yearly > > report cards, the subjects he studied in school > > were more difficult (Trigonometry, > > Latin/Greek/Hebrew -- and this was in an ordinary > > city-run school, not a "private" grammar school) > > and begun at a younger age than what my > > Scottish-born mother was studying in Canadian > > schools at the same time, from c1910-1922. > > > > Margaret Gibbs > > > > > > > > > > > > On 06/09/2013 5:49 PM, Ronald and Laura wrote: > >> I wonder if it means competent and competent small might mean a small > >> understanding of > >> reading / writing... > >> > >> > >> > >>> ________________________________ > >>> From: B&A Smith <[email protected]> > >>> To: [email protected] > >>> Sent: Friday, September 6, 2013 3:03 AM > >>> Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] Language & Literacy in Scotland and the Gaelic > >>> language > >>> > >>> > >>> 'Compt' seems likely to be an abbreviation for 'communicant', hence > >>> the > >>> Episcopalians and Baptists being noted separately. It's unclear what > >>> the > >>> meaning of 'compt small' might be. > >>> > >>> Alison > >>> > >>> On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 4:56 AM, Gaye Ruru <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Hello Listers, > >>>> > >>>> Have been following this thread with interest. Not directly to do > >>>> with > >>>> Aberdeenshire [where my YOUNGSON line is from] but in my Perthshire > >>>> FORBES > >>>> line my great grandfather who emigrated to New Zealand in 1861 was > >>>> definitely a fluent Gaelic speaker, and his brother, the Rev Daniel > >>>> FORBES, > >>>> Minister in the Free Church of Scotland in Edderton, Rosshire, > >>>> travelled > >>>> as far as London preaching in Gaelic during the right up until > >>>> shortly > >>>> before his death in May 1900. > >>>> > >>>> Also I have copied of the1806-7 and 1820-21 Census compiled by the > >>>> Minister of Moulin Parish in Perthshire. In the 1806-7 Census > >>>> parishioners > >>>> are judged as "Good, Indifferent, or None' as to their knowledge of > >>>> the > >>>> bible and in the 1820-21 Census there are two headings, e.g. Comt - > >>>> which I > >>>> understand is something to do with their knowledge of the bible > >>>> again, with > >>>> most adults having "Comt', or 'comt small' or 'Episcopalian' or > >>>> 'Baptist' > >>>> or no entry at all in that column and under a second column, 'Read or > >>>> ?' it > >>>> identifies if they 'can't read' with all other adults being able to > >>>> 'read'[whatever that means at that time]. It is interesting to note > >>>> that > >>>> some of the few who are noted as 'can't read' are also noted as > >>>> 'comt' i.e. > >>>> have knowledge of the bible but can't read. > >>>> > >>>> As a general comment I would also say that standards of literacy and > >>>> schooling appear to have been better in Scotland than that of my > >>>> English > >>>> ancestors of the same period and all my ancestors who signed with > >>>> their > >>>> 'mark' have been English - but that may well be completely incidental > >>>> to > >>>> this discussion. > >>>> > >>>> Gaye in New Zealand > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ------------------------------- > >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>> [email protected] > >>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the > >>> body of the > >>> message > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> [email protected] > >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the > >> body of the > >> message > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with > > the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of > > the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

For some reason your emails are delivered four times, all the same time. You might want to look into that problem. J K Clark ---- Janet <[email protected]> wrote: > The age of 14 yrs to which you refer relating to the age when formal education may have > ceased accords with information I have about a Trust for the education of a nephew I > mentioned earlier; the actual Trust was to continue until the child was 21 yrs but its > purpose was to provide formal education, clothing, etc. I found a quote in the name of > John Knox which confirms what has been shared here > http://www.ed.ac.uk/schools-departments/education/about-us/maps-estates-history/history/part-one > Quote: "Therefore we judge it necessary that every several church have a schoolmaster > appointed, such a one as is able, at least, to teach Grammar and the Latin tongue, if the > town be of any reputation. If it be [rural] .. then must either the Reader or the Minister > there appointed take care over the children and youth of the parish, to instruct them in > their first rudiments, and especially in the Catechism ..And further, we think it > expedient that in every notable town .. there be erected a [High School] in which the > Arts, at least Logic and Rhetoric, together with the tongues, shall be read by sufficient > masters, for whom honest stipends must be appointed. ..Lastly, the great schools called > Universities shall be replenished with those apt for learning". John Knox" At first the > achievement of this aim proved difficult because of Scotland's relative poverty and the > prevailing political circumstances, despite the continuing efforts of the Kirk. However, > in 1696 the Scottish Parliament passed its 'Act for Setting Schools', whereby every parish > not already equipped with a school was required to establish a schoolhouse and to provide > for a schoolmaster. End Quote. It was the thought that a cross on a certificate might not > have been an indication of illiteracy or being unable to sign one's name that piqued my > interest when I started this thread. I would not have blamed any one speaking Gaelic to > feel just a tad put out at having to sign their name in English after 1855. > The year 1944 was when formal education became compulsory by Statute along with the birth > of our National Health Service. > I found what looks to be an informative site "Transforming lives through Learning" which > includes "The Making of industrial and urban Scotland" (Modern) looks very comprehensive > about the people of Scotland. Under Education > http://www.educationscotland.gov.uk/scotlandshistory/makingindustrialurban/education/index.asp > just one link alongside a whole lot more. The Scots were prominent in the Empire borne > out by their education. > > Janet > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[email protected]> > To: "Ronald and Laura" <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2013 5:59 AM > Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] Language & Literacy in Scotland and the Gaeliclanguage > > > >I had checked my father's school records from Old > > Aberdeen earlier today as the abbrevation sounded > > familiar. He was the top student of his year when > > he graduated, and all through school all but one > > of his courses were marked "sup." for superior. > > HIs penmanship, however, was consistently "comt" > > (and I think that was generous -- "chicken > > scratches" would have been more apt :-) .) As > > others have mentioned, handwriting by even the > > working classes was often a thing of beauty. My > > father's father attended school in Old Deer until > > he was fourteen, and his letters home from the > > trenches of WW1 as an ordinary Private are models > > of copperplate penmanship. My father (b 1905) > > attended university and was an engineer, clever > > with his hands, so I don't know why his writing > > was so awful. > > > > Further to comments about the reputed superiority > > of Scottish education in the late 19th and early > > 20th centuries, my paternal grandparents had > > emigrated to Canada c1900 and my father and his > > two younger brothers were born here. When my > > father was coming up to school age, however, his > > parents packed up the family and returned to > > Aberdeen, where they were convinced their bright > > oldest son would receive a better education. I > > don't know if it was true or not, but that was > > their conviction. Certainly, looking at his yearly > > report cards, the subjects he studied in school > > were more difficult (Trigonometry, > > Latin/Greek/Hebrew -- and this was in an ordinary > > city-run school, not a "private" grammar school) > > and begun at a younger age than what my > > Scottish-born mother was studying in Canadian > > schools at the same time, from c1910-1922. > > > > Margaret Gibbs > > > > > > > > > > > > On 06/09/2013 5:49 PM, Ronald and Laura wrote: > >> I wonder if it means competent and competent small might mean a small understanding of > >> reading / writing... > >> > >> > >> > >>> ________________________________ > >>> From: B&A Smith <[email protected]> > >>> To: [email protected] > >>> Sent: Friday, September 6, 2013 3:03 AM > >>> Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] Language & Literacy in Scotland and the Gaelic language > >>> > >>> > >>> 'Compt' seems likely to be an abbreviation for 'communicant', hence the > >>> Episcopalians and Baptists being noted separately. It's unclear what the > >>> meaning of 'compt small' might be. > >>> > >>> Alison > >>> > >>> On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 4:56 AM, Gaye Ruru <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Hello Listers, > >>>> > >>>> Have been following this thread with interest. Not directly to do with > >>>> Aberdeenshire [where my YOUNGSON line is from] but in my Perthshire FORBES > >>>> line my great grandfather who emigrated to New Zealand in 1861 was > >>>> definitely a fluent Gaelic speaker, and his brother, the Rev Daniel FORBES, > >>>> Minister in the Free Church of Scotland in Edderton, Rosshire, travelled > >>>> as far as London preaching in Gaelic during the right up until shortly > >>>> before his death in May 1900. > >>>> > >>>> Also I have copied of the1806-7 and 1820-21 Census compiled by the > >>>> Minister of Moulin Parish in Perthshire. In the 1806-7 Census parishioners > >>>> are judged as "Good, Indifferent, or None' as to their knowledge of the > >>>> bible and in the 1820-21 Census there are two headings, e.g. Comt - which I > >>>> understand is something to do with their knowledge of the bible again, with > >>>> most adults having "Comt', or 'comt small' or 'Episcopalian' or 'Baptist' > >>>> or no entry at all in that column and under a second column, 'Read or ?' it > >>>> identifies if they 'can't read' with all other adults being able to > >>>> 'read'[whatever that means at that time]. It is interesting to note that > >>>> some of the few who are noted as 'can't read' are also noted as 'comt' i.e. > >>>> have knowledge of the bible but can't read. > >>>> > >>>> As a general comment I would also say that standards of literacy and > >>>> schooling appear to have been better in Scotland than that of my English > >>>> ancestors of the same period and all my ancestors who signed with their > >>>> 'mark' have been English - but that may well be completely incidental to > >>>> this discussion. > >>>> > >>>> Gaye in New Zealand > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ------------------------------- > >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > >>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > >>> message > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] > >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > >> message > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with > > the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The age of 14 yrs to which you refer relating to the age when formal education may have ceased accords with information I have about a Trust for the education of a nephew I mentioned earlier; the actual Trust was to continue until the child was 21 yrs but its purpose was to provide formal education, clothing, etc. I found a quote in the name of John Knox which confirms what has been shared here http://www.ed.ac.uk/schools-departments/education/about-us/maps-estates-history/history/part-one Quote: "Therefore we judge it necessary that every several church have a schoolmaster appointed, such a one as is able, at least, to teach Grammar and the Latin tongue, if the town be of any reputation. If it be [rural] .. then must either the Reader or the Minister there appointed take care over the children and youth of the parish, to instruct them in their first rudiments, and especially in the Catechism ..And further, we think it expedient that in every notable town .. there be erected a [High School] in which the Arts, at least Logic and Rhetoric, together with the tongues, shall be read by sufficient masters, for whom honest stipends must be appointed. ..Lastly, the great schools called Universities shall be replenished with those apt for learning". John Knox" At first the achievement of this aim proved difficult because of Scotland's relative poverty and the prevailing political circumstances, despite the continuing efforts of the Kirk. However, in 1696 the Scottish Parliament passed its 'Act for Setting Schools', whereby every parish not already equipped with a school was required to establish a schoolhouse and to provide for a schoolmaster. End Quote. It was the thought that a cross on a certificate might not have been an indication of illiteracy or being unable to sign one's name that piqued my interest when I started this thread. I would not have blamed any one speaking Gaelic to feel just a tad put out at having to sign their name in English after 1855. The year 1944 was when formal education became compulsory by Statute along with the birth of our National Health Service. I found what looks to be an informative site "Transforming lives through Learning" which includes "The Making of industrial and urban Scotland" (Modern) looks very comprehensive about the people of Scotland. Under Education http://www.educationscotland.gov.uk/scotlandshistory/makingindustrialurban/education/index.asp just one link alongside a whole lot more. The Scots were prominent in the Empire borne out by their education. Janet ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: "Ronald and Laura" <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2013 5:59 AM Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] Language & Literacy in Scotland and the Gaeliclanguage >I had checked my father's school records from Old > Aberdeen earlier today as the abbrevation sounded > familiar. He was the top student of his year when > he graduated, and all through school all but one > of his courses were marked "sup." for superior. > HIs penmanship, however, was consistently "comt" > (and I think that was generous -- "chicken > scratches" would have been more apt :-) .) As > others have mentioned, handwriting by even the > working classes was often a thing of beauty. My > father's father attended school in Old Deer until > he was fourteen, and his letters home from the > trenches of WW1 as an ordinary Private are models > of copperplate penmanship. My father (b 1905) > attended university and was an engineer, clever > with his hands, so I don't know why his writing > was so awful. > > Further to comments about the reputed superiority > of Scottish education in the late 19th and early > 20th centuries, my paternal grandparents had > emigrated to Canada c1900 and my father and his > two younger brothers were born here. When my > father was coming up to school age, however, his > parents packed up the family and returned to > Aberdeen, where they were convinced their bright > oldest son would receive a better education. I > don't know if it was true or not, but that was > their conviction. Certainly, looking at his yearly > report cards, the subjects he studied in school > were more difficult (Trigonometry, > Latin/Greek/Hebrew -- and this was in an ordinary > city-run school, not a "private" grammar school) > and begun at a younger age than what my > Scottish-born mother was studying in Canadian > schools at the same time, from c1910-1922. > > Margaret Gibbs > > > > > > On 06/09/2013 5:49 PM, Ronald and Laura wrote: >> I wonder if it means competent and competent small might mean a small understanding of >> reading / writing... >> >> >> >>> ________________________________ >>> From: B&A Smith <[email protected]> >>> To: [email protected] >>> Sent: Friday, September 6, 2013 3:03 AM >>> Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] Language & Literacy in Scotland and the Gaelic language >>> >>> >>> 'Compt' seems likely to be an abbreviation for 'communicant', hence the >>> Episcopalians and Baptists being noted separately. It's unclear what the >>> meaning of 'compt small' might be. >>> >>> Alison >>> >>> On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 4:56 AM, Gaye Ruru <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hello Listers, >>>> >>>> Have been following this thread with interest. Not directly to do with >>>> Aberdeenshire [where my YOUNGSON line is from] but in my Perthshire FORBES >>>> line my great grandfather who emigrated to New Zealand in 1861 was >>>> definitely a fluent Gaelic speaker, and his brother, the Rev Daniel FORBES, >>>> Minister in the Free Church of Scotland in Edderton, Rosshire, travelled >>>> as far as London preaching in Gaelic during the right up until shortly >>>> before his death in May 1900. >>>> >>>> Also I have copied of the1806-7 and 1820-21 Census compiled by the >>>> Minister of Moulin Parish in Perthshire. In the 1806-7 Census parishioners >>>> are judged as "Good, Indifferent, or None' as to their knowledge of the >>>> bible and in the 1820-21 Census there are two headings, e.g. Comt - which I >>>> understand is something to do with their knowledge of the bible again, with >>>> most adults having "Comt', or 'comt small' or 'Episcopalian' or 'Baptist' >>>> or no entry at all in that column and under a second column, 'Read or ?' it >>>> identifies if they 'can't read' with all other adults being able to >>>> 'read'[whatever that means at that time]. It is interesting to note that >>>> some of the few who are noted as 'can't read' are also noted as 'comt' i.e. >>>> have knowledge of the bible but can't read. >>>> >>>> As a general comment I would also say that standards of literacy and >>>> schooling appear to have been better in Scotland than that of my English >>>> ancestors of the same period and all my ancestors who signed with their >>>> 'mark' have been English - but that may well be completely incidental to >>>> this discussion. >>>> >>>> Gaye in New Zealand >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] >>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >>> message >>> >>> >>> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >> message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with > the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Good thinking Alison. In addition to the Select Committee Report your reference to the House of Commons, you will find verbatim reports in Hansard 1803-2005 - Hansard explained: http://www.theyworkforyou.com/search-hansard/?gclid=CLm2zZO4ubkCFYPHtAod624AsQ Reports on the debates in the House of Commons & House of Lords. http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/index.html Reference to the parochial system in Scotland http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1841/apr/06/education to which Gavin referred. There is a search field and I turned up results about education in Scotland http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/search/Education+Scotland Janet ----- Original Message ----- From: "B&A Smith" <[email protected]> > While studying a module on education archives, I came upon a Select > Committee Report on Education, published in 1841, which is extremely > illuminating, not least because it draws attention to the surprisingly > large number of schools which existed in Scotland at that time. < Snip> >>From the New Statistical Accounts for Aberdeenshire parishes it can be > inferred that by 1840 Gaelic was confined to a small minority of the > population in the Upper Deeside area. The situation in the Highlands & > Islands was somewhat different and official attitudes towards Gaelic (on > the part of those providing educational services) varied at different > periods. A summary of relevant reports and legislation can be found at > http://gdl.cdlr.strath.ac.uk/haynin/haynin05.htm . > The 1841 Select Commitee Report can be accessed on the House of Commons > Parliamentary Papers website, although possibly only through an educational > institution or a library. > > A useful published guide to education in Scotland is "The History of > Scottish Education" by James Scotland (London, 1969). I can also recommend > the online couse offered through Dundee University and will be pleased to > forward details to anyone interested. > > Alison

Some more interesting information. I thought perhaps "Comt" might be an abbreviation for "Competent" perhaps but then "comt small", I dont know. Perhaps it was a comment about reduced understanding. Your observation in the final paragraph accords with my first theory that the inability to write their name and the necessity to place a cross in formal circumstances was probably due as much to sociological circumstances such as how they lived as well as literacy. I think I have seen more crosses on certificates of those who lived in large cities where squalor was also known to reside. Janet ----- Original Message ----- > > As a general comment I would also say that standards of literacy and schooling appear to > have been better in Scotland than that of my English ancestors of the same period and > all my ancestors who signed with their 'mark' have been English - but that may well be > completely incidental to this discussion. > > Gaye in New Zealand

Thanks for contributing this information Mary. We hear much today about how our parents and grand parents got to school without transport or at best on a bicycle perhaps. The Log Book entries you have shared with us are useful. I suspect there were people who were Teachers in Scotland who would have been in demand outside of Scotland owing to the high standard of teaching there. Janet ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mary Legarth" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 12:33 AM Subject: [ABERDEEN] Language or literacy. > This may be of interest, for those interested in school progress etc.. > I was researching a McNab Family in Killin Parish ,Perthshire, the > Glenlochay School records, show the children were enrolled there. I now > note the correct spelling may be Glen Lochay Public School . > 1876 the Log Book states " The McNabs in Class 3 are irregular in their > attendance on account of stormy weather and a bad long road coming > six miles through the Glen" > 1883 Log Book again, " Isabella McNab residing at the head of the Glen has > not been able to attend school, for nearly a month on account of the stormy > weather". > 1884 "Attendance still very poor, two of the McNabs from the head of the > Glen have been attending of late , about time for them as ignorant as the > hills without three words of English." > > The Glen in those times was probably only a track, presenting attendance > problems similar to many rural areas in Scotland at the time. > One of those McNabs, was the Gt. Grandfather of my Daughter in law, a > Teacher, I suspect she was somewhat distressed by the comments. > Her Grandmother, when young, emigrated to New Zealand, but my D.in L., does > not remember any comments made about Gaelic prior to emigration. > > On 05/09/2013 11:51, Janet wrote: >> ... >> Was the Gaelic language prevalent in certain areas across Scotland, >> viz moreso in the Highlands and what of Aberdeen? > > Aberdeen belongs firmly in the Scots-speaking Lowlands. A few of the more > westerly parishes of Aberdeenshire would still have had some Gaelic speakers > into the later 19th century. > >> Did the schools teach English from 1871 or were some of them totally > Gaelic. > > Even in Gaelic-speaking areas, the school would be taught in English. > >> If the >> latter, then it is more likely some of them would place a cross where >> they were required to sign their name? > > I don't see why that should be. > >> It seems possible that children could write their name even if they >> could not read, or was it the other way round; they could read but not >> write anything, even their name, without encouragement. Those like >> mine who were born to parents in the printing industry may be better off > than others perhaps. > > By the later 19th century, children would be taught both to read and to > write. Among my ancestors (who were all in fairly humble circumstances) I > have come across only who failed to produce a signature when required for > purposes of Registration, and I think that was probably fairly typical. > > > Gavin Bell > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 8768 (20130905) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with > the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The various fascinating examples provided by contributors to this discussion demonstrate that it is impossible to generalise and that we should evaluate every piece of evidence in the appropriate context. Educational provision in Scotland varied a great deal, especially prior to 1872, but even before that we can tell from existing sources that the vast majority of children in Aberdeenshire had access to elementary teaching. By the 19th century few spoke Gaelic, except in the Highland parishes on Deeside. As regards the significance of abbreviations, we need to ask ourselves who created the record and for what purpose. The census records to which Gaye referred were compiled by ministers in Perthshire who distinguished between parishioners' religious practices, which suggests that 'communicant' was intended. In an earlier religious census for the Catholic church in Bellie parish, 'comt' is also used as an abbreviation for 'communicant'. In an educational record, on the other hand, it is likely to have an entirely different meaning. Alison On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 5:59 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > I had checked my father's school records from Old > Aberdeen earlier today as the abbrevation sounded > familiar. He was the top student of his year when > he graduated, and all through school all but one > of his courses were marked "sup." for superior. > HIs penmanship, however, was consistently "comt" > (and I think that was generous -- "chicken > scratches" would have been more apt :-) .) As > others have mentioned, handwriting by even the > working classes was often a thing of beauty. My > father's father attended school in Old Deer until > he was fourteen, and his letters home from the > trenches of WW1 as an ordinary Private are models > of copperplate penmanship. My father (b 1905) > attended university and was an engineer, clever > with his hands, so I don't know why his writing > was so awful. > > Further to comments about the reputed superiority > of Scottish education in the late 19th and early > 20th centuries, my paternal grandparents had > emigrated to Canada c1900 and my father and his > two younger brothers were born here. When my > father was coming up to school age, however, his > parents packed up the family and returned to > Aberdeen, where they were convinced their bright > oldest son would receive a better education. I > don't know if it was true or not, but that was > their conviction. Certainly, looking at his yearly > report cards, the subjects he studied in school > were more difficult (Trigonometry, > Latin/Greek/Hebrew -- and this was in an ordinary > city-run school, not a "private" grammar school) > and begun at a younger age than what my > Scottish-born mother was studying in Canadian > schools at the same time, from c1910-1922. > > Margaret Gibbs > > > > > > On 06/09/2013 5:49 PM, Ronald and Laura wrote: > > I wonder if it means competent and competent small might mean a small > understanding of reading / writing... > > > > > > > >> ________________________________ > >> From: B&A Smith <[email protected]> > >> To: [email protected] > >> Sent: Friday, September 6, 2013 3:03 AM > >> Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] Language & Literacy in Scotland and the Gaelic > language > >> > >> > >> 'Compt' seems likely to be an abbreviation for 'communicant', hence the > >> Episcopalians and Baptists being noted separately. It's unclear what > the > >> meaning of 'compt small' might be. > >> > >> Alison > >> > >> On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 4:56 AM, Gaye Ruru <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> > >>> Hello Listers, > >>> > >>> Have been following this thread with interest. Not directly to do with > >>> Aberdeenshire [where my YOUNGSON line is from] but in my Perthshire > FORBES > >>> line my great grandfather who emigrated to New Zealand in 1861 was > >>> definitely a fluent Gaelic speaker, and his brother, the Rev Daniel > FORBES, > >>> Minister in the Free Church of Scotland in Edderton, Rosshire, > travelled > >>> as far as London preaching in Gaelic during the right up until shortly > >>> before his death in May 1900. > >>> > >>> Also I have copied of the1806-7 and 1820-21 Census compiled by the > >>> Minister of Moulin Parish in Perthshire. In the 1806-7 Census > parishioners > >>> are judged as "Good, Indifferent, or None' as to their knowledge of the > >>> bible and in the 1820-21 Census there are two headings, e.g. Comt - > which I > >>> understand is something to do with their knowledge of the bible again, > with > >>> most adults having "Comt', or 'comt small' or 'Episcopalian' or > 'Baptist' > >>> or no entry at all in that column and under a second column, 'Read or > ?' it > >>> identifies if they 'can't read' with all other adults being able to > >>> 'read'[whatever that means at that time]. It is interesting to note > that > >>> some of the few who are noted as 'can't read' are also noted as 'comt' > i.e. > >>> have knowledge of the bible but can't read. > >>> > >>> As a general comment I would also say that standards of literacy and > >>> schooling appear to have been better in Scotland than that of my > English > >>> ancestors of the same period and all my ancestors who signed with their > >>> 'mark' have been English - but that may well be completely incidental > to > >>> this discussion. > >>> > >>> Gaye in New Zealand > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >>> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > >> > >> > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello, Everyone. Peter May has written three very interesting novels: The Blackhouse (2011), The Lewis Man (2012) and The Chess Men (2013). The background to the fictional events is a factual account of growing up and going to school on Lewis in the mid-twentieth century. He describes a community where Gaelic was still spoken at home and children often learned English only when they went to school. Throughout the books the older, Gaelic speaking culture shapes events and attitudes. This theme in the books reflects the interaction of the Gaelic and non-Gaelic cultures which was once more widely spread. Note, for example, that the 1901 census required the the completion of a column headed <quote> Gaelic or G. & E. <end quote> to be completed if the person enumerated was Gaelic speaking or bilingual. Regards, Alyson

I had checked my father's school records from Old Aberdeen earlier today as the abbrevation sounded familiar. He was the top student of his year when he graduated, and all through school all but one of his courses were marked "sup." for superior. HIs penmanship, however, was consistently "comt" (and I think that was generous -- "chicken scratches" would have been more apt :-) .) As others have mentioned, handwriting by even the working classes was often a thing of beauty. My father's father attended school in Old Deer until he was fourteen, and his letters home from the trenches of WW1 as an ordinary Private are models of copperplate penmanship. My father (b 1905) attended university and was an engineer, clever with his hands, so I don't know why his writing was so awful. Further to comments about the reputed superiority of Scottish education in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, my paternal grandparents had emigrated to Canada c1900 and my father and his two younger brothers were born here. When my father was coming up to school age, however, his parents packed up the family and returned to Aberdeen, where they were convinced their bright oldest son would receive a better education. I don't know if it was true or not, but that was their conviction. Certainly, looking at his yearly report cards, the subjects he studied in school were more difficult (Trigonometry, Latin/Greek/Hebrew -- and this was in an ordinary city-run school, not a "private" grammar school) and begun at a younger age than what my Scottish-born mother was studying in Canadian schools at the same time, from c1910-1922. Margaret Gibbs On 06/09/2013 5:49 PM, Ronald and Laura wrote: > I wonder if it means competent and competent small might mean a small understanding of reading / writing... > > > >> ________________________________ >> From: B&A Smith <[email protected]> >> To: [email protected] >> Sent: Friday, September 6, 2013 3:03 AM >> Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] Language & Literacy in Scotland and the Gaelic language >> >> >> 'Compt' seems likely to be an abbreviation for 'communicant', hence the >> Episcopalians and Baptists being noted separately. It's unclear what the >> meaning of 'compt small' might be. >> >> Alison >> >> On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 4:56 AM, Gaye Ruru <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Hello Listers, >>> >>> Have been following this thread with interest. Not directly to do with >>> Aberdeenshire [where my YOUNGSON line is from] but in my Perthshire FORBES >>> line my great grandfather who emigrated to New Zealand in 1861 was >>> definitely a fluent Gaelic speaker, and his brother, the Rev Daniel FORBES, >>> Minister in the Free Church of Scotland in Edderton, Rosshire, travelled >>> as far as London preaching in Gaelic during the right up until shortly >>> before his death in May 1900. >>> >>> Also I have copied of the1806-7 and 1820-21 Census compiled by the >>> Minister of Moulin Parish in Perthshire. In the 1806-7 Census parishioners >>> are judged as "Good, Indifferent, or None' as to their knowledge of the >>> bible and in the 1820-21 Census there are two headings, e.g. Comt - which I >>> understand is something to do with their knowledge of the bible again, with >>> most adults having "Comt', or 'comt small' or 'Episcopalian' or 'Baptist' >>> or no entry at all in that column and under a second column, 'Read or ?' it >>> identifies if they 'can't read' with all other adults being able to >>> 'read'[whatever that means at that time]. It is interesting to note that >>> some of the few who are noted as 'can't read' are also noted as 'comt' i.e. >>> have knowledge of the bible but can't read. >>> >>> As a general comment I would also say that standards of literacy and >>> schooling appear to have been better in Scotland than that of my English >>> ancestors of the same period and all my ancestors who signed with their >>> 'mark' have been English - but that may well be completely incidental to >>> this discussion. >>> >>> Gaye in New Zealand >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I wonder if it means competent and competent small might mean a small understanding of reading / writing... >________________________________ > From: B&A Smith <[email protected]> >To: [email protected] >Sent: Friday, September 6, 2013 3:03 AM >Subject: Re: [ABERDEEN] Language & Literacy in Scotland and the Gaelic language > > >'Compt' seems likely to be an abbreviation for 'communicant', hence the >Episcopalians and Baptists being noted separately.  It's unclear what the >meaning of 'compt small' might be. > >Alison > >On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 4:56 AM, Gaye Ruru <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> >> Hello Listers, >> >> Have been following this thread with interest.  Not directly to do with >> Aberdeenshire [where my YOUNGSON line is from] but in my Perthshire FORBES >> line my great grandfather who emigrated to New Zealand in 1861 was >> definitely a fluent Gaelic speaker, and his brother, the Rev Daniel FORBES, >> Minister in the Free Church of Scotland in  Edderton, Rosshire, travelled >> as far as London preaching in Gaelic during the right up until shortly >> before his death in May 1900. >> >> Also I have copied of the1806-7 and 1820-21 Census compiled by the >> Minister of Moulin Parish in Perthshire.  In the 1806-7 Census parishioners >> are judged as "Good, Indifferent, or None' as to their knowledge of the >> bible and in the 1820-21 Census there are two headings, e.g. Comt - which I >> understand is something to do with their knowledge of the bible again, with >> most adults having "Comt', or 'comt small'  or 'Episcopalian' or 'Baptist' >> or no entry at all in that column and under a second column, 'Read or ?' it >> identifies if they 'can't read' with all other adults being able to >> 'read'[whatever that means at that time].  It is interesting to note that >> some of the few who are noted as 'can't read' are also noted as 'comt' i.e. >> have knowledge of the bible but can't read. >> >> As a general comment I would also say that standards of literacy and >> schooling appear to have been better in Scotland than that of my English >> ancestors of the same period and all my ancestors who signed with their >> 'mark' have been English - but that may well be completely incidental to >> this discussion. >> >> Gaye in New Zealand >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >

Hello Listers, Have been following this thread with interest. Not directly to do with Aberdeenshire [where my YOUNGSON line is from] but in my Perthshire FORBES line my great grandfather who emigrated to New Zealand in 1861 was definitely a fluent Gaelic speaker, and his brother, the Rev Daniel FORBES, Minister in the Free Church of Scotland in Edderton, Rosshire, travelled as far as London preaching in Gaelic during the right up until shortly before his death in May 1900. Also I have copied of the1806-7 and 1820-21 Census compiled by the Minister of Moulin Parish in Perthshire. In the 1806-7 Census parishioners are judged as "Good, Indifferent, or None' as to their knowledge of the bible and in the 1820-21 Census there are two headings, e.g. Comt - which I understand is something to do with their knowledge of the bible again, with most adults having "Comt', or 'comt small' or 'Episcopalian' or 'Baptist' or no entry at all in that column and under a second column, 'Read or ?' it identifies if they 'can't read' with all other adults being able to 'read'[whatever that means at that time]. It is interesting to note that some of the few who are noted as 'can't read' are also noted as 'comt' i.e. have knowledge of the bible but can't read. As a general comment I would also say that standards of literacy and schooling appear to have been better in Scotland than that of my English ancestors of the same period and all my ancestors who signed with their 'mark' have been English - but that may well be completely incidental to this discussion. Gaye in New Zealand

Sorry forgot to sign my name below, pressed send too soon, Mary -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mary Legarth Sent: Friday, 6 September 2013 11:33 a.m. To: [email protected] Subject: [ABERDEEN] Language or literacy. This may be of interest, for those interested in school progress etc.. I was researching a McNab Family in Killin Parish ,Perthshire, the Glenlochay School records, show the children were enrolled there. I now note the correct spelling may be Glen Lochay Public School . 1876 the Log Book states " The McNabs in Class 3 are irregular in their attendance on account of stormy weather and a bad long road coming six miles through the Glen" 1883 Log Book again, " Isabella McNab residing at the head of the Glen has not been able to attend school, for nearly a month on account of the stormy weather". 1884 "Attendance still very poor, two of the McNabs from the head of the Glen have been attending of late , about time for them as ignorant as the hills without three words of English." The Glen in those times was probably only a track, presenting attendance problems similar to many rural areas in Scotland at the time. One of those McNabs, was the Gt. Grandfather of my Daughter in law, a Teacher, I suspect she was somewhat distressed by the comments. Her Grandmother, when young, emigrated to New Zealand, but my D.in L., does not remember any comments made about Gaelic prior to emigration. On 05/09/2013 11:51, Janet wrote: > ... > Was the Gaelic language prevalent in certain areas across Scotland, > viz moreso in the Highlands and what of Aberdeen? Aberdeen belongs firmly in the Scots-speaking Lowlands. A few of the more westerly parishes of Aberdeenshire would still have had some Gaelic speakers into the later 19th century. > Did the schools teach English from 1871 or were some of them totally Gaelic. Even in Gaelic-speaking areas, the school would be taught in English. > If the > latter, then it is more likely some of them would place a cross where > they were required to sign their name? I don't see why that should be. > It seems possible that children could write their name even if they > could not read, or was it the other way round; they could read but not > write anything, even their name, without encouragement. Those like > mine who were born to parents in the printing industry may be better > off than others perhaps. By the later 19th century, children would be taught both to read and to write. Among my ancestors (who were all in fairly humble circumstances) I have come across only who failed to produce a signature when required for purposes of Registration, and I think that was probably fairly typical. Gavin Bell __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 8768 (20130905) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

This may be of interest, for those interested in school progress etc.. I was researching a McNab Family in Killin Parish ,Perthshire, the Glenlochay School records, show the children were enrolled there. I now note the correct spelling may be Glen Lochay Public School . 1876 the Log Book states " The McNabs in Class 3 are irregular in their attendance on account of stormy weather and a bad long road coming six miles through the Glen" 1883 Log Book again, " Isabella McNab residing at the head of the Glen has not been able to attend school, for nearly a month on account of the stormy weather". 1884 "Attendance still very poor, two of the McNabs from the head of the Glen have been attending of late , about time for them as ignorant as the hills without three words of English." The Glen in those times was probably only a track, presenting attendance problems similar to many rural areas in Scotland at the time. One of those McNabs, was the Gt. Grandfather of my Daughter in law, a Teacher, I suspect she was somewhat distressed by the comments. Her Grandmother, when young, emigrated to New Zealand, but my D.in L., does not remember any comments made about Gaelic prior to emigration. On 05/09/2013 11:51, Janet wrote: > ... > Was the Gaelic language prevalent in certain areas across Scotland, > viz moreso in the Highlands and what of Aberdeen? Aberdeen belongs firmly in the Scots-speaking Lowlands. A few of the more westerly parishes of Aberdeenshire would still have had some Gaelic speakers into the later 19th century. > Did the schools teach English from 1871 or were some of them totally Gaelic. Even in Gaelic-speaking areas, the school would be taught in English. > If the > latter, then it is more likely some of them would place a cross where > they were required to sign their name? I don't see why that should be. > It seems possible that children could write their name even if they > could not read, or was it the other way round; they could read but not > write anything, even their name, without encouragement. Those like > mine who were born to parents in the printing industry may be better off than others perhaps. By the later 19th century, children would be taught both to read and to write. Among my ancestors (who were all in fairly humble circumstances) I have come across only who failed to produce a signature when required for purposes of Registration, and I think that was probably fairly typical. Gavin Bell __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 8768 (20130905) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com

'Compt' seems likely to be an abbreviation for 'communicant', hence the Episcopalians and Baptists being noted separately. It's unclear what the meaning of 'compt small' might be. Alison On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 4:56 AM, Gaye Ruru <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Hello Listers, > > Have been following this thread with interest. Not directly to do with > Aberdeenshire [where my YOUNGSON line is from] but in my Perthshire FORBES > line my great grandfather who emigrated to New Zealand in 1861 was > definitely a fluent Gaelic speaker, and his brother, the Rev Daniel FORBES, > Minister in the Free Church of Scotland in Edderton, Rosshire, travelled > as far as London preaching in Gaelic during the right up until shortly > before his death in May 1900. > > Also I have copied of the1806-7 and 1820-21 Census compiled by the > Minister of Moulin Parish in Perthshire. In the 1806-7 Census parishioners > are judged as "Good, Indifferent, or None' as to their knowledge of the > bible and in the 1820-21 Census there are two headings, e.g. Comt - which I > understand is something to do with their knowledge of the bible again, with > most adults having "Comt', or 'comt small' or 'Episcopalian' or 'Baptist' > or no entry at all in that column and under a second column, 'Read or ?' it > identifies if they 'can't read' with all other adults being able to > 'read'[whatever that means at that time]. It is interesting to note that > some of the few who are noted as 'can't read' are also noted as 'comt' i.e. > have knowledge of the bible but can't read. > > As a general comment I would also say that standards of literacy and > schooling appear to have been better in Scotland than that of my English > ancestors of the same period and all my ancestors who signed with their > 'mark' have been English - but that may well be completely incidental to > this discussion. > > Gaye in New Zealand > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello Listers ~ Like Gaye, I've followed this thread with interest thinking how literacy in Maritime Canada appears to have been equated with a passable knowledge of spoken English. In 1784 many of the Highland Regiments mustered out "in place" in then Nova Scotia. Soldiers were granted parcels of land the size of which seemed to have been geared to not only their rank but their working knowledge of English. The "bible" may have been the Manual of Arms it seems. "Literate" or English savvy enlisted men like my ancestor were granted "officer-sized" tracts. Literacy, in this case, has a very specific historic context. Inez Reed

While studying a module on education archives, I came upon a Select Committee Report on Education, published in 1841, which is extremely illuminating, not least because it draws attention to the surprisingly large number of schools which existed in Scotland at that time. In addition to the parochial schools which one might expect to find in each parish, there were sometimes 5 or 6 other schools, even in rural parishes. Occasionally these were short-lived 'adventure' schools, but in other cases they were established by charities such as the SSPCK, whose principles were broadly similar to those of the Church of Scotland. In the parish of Strathdon, for example, there were schools in Corgarff with 92 pupils, in Deskry-side with 57 pupils and Glenkindie, with 50 pupils. There was also a parochial school with 45 pupils. These were mainly children between the ages of 5 and 12, with boys consistently out-numbering girls, sometimes by 2 to 1. Attendance might nonetheless be restricted to seasons when children were not required to assist with agricultural work and by no means every pupil received the benefit of education throughout this timespan. At this period a fee was payable for each subject studied. While the curriculum in adventure schools was usually restricted to basic literacy (with the Bible as the main text book), parochial and charity schools offered a much broader range of subjects and were invariably taught by university graduates. The emphasis, however, was on English language and numeracy skills. >From the New Statistical Accounts for Aberdeenshire parishes it can be inferred that by 1840 Gaelic was confined to a small minority of the population in the Upper Deeside area. The situation in the Highlands & Islands was somewhat different and official attitudes towards Gaelic (on the part of those providing educational services) varied at different periods. A summary of relevant reports and legislation can be found at http://gdl.cdlr.strath.ac.uk/haynin/haynin05.htm . The 1841 Select Commitee Report can be accessed on the House of Commons Parliamentary Papers website, although possibly only through an educational institution or a library. A useful published guide to education in Scotland is "The History of Scottish Education" by James Scotland (London, 1969). I can also recommend the online couse offered through Dundee University and will be pleased to forward details to anyone interested. Alison On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 6:43 PM, Gavin Bell <[email protected]> wrote: > On 05/09/2013 11:51, Janet wrote: > > ... > > Was the Gaelic language prevalent in certain areas across Scotland, viz > moreso in the > > Highlands and what of Aberdeen? > > Aberdeen belongs firmly in the Scots-speaking Lowlands. A few of the > more westerly parishes of Aberdeenshire would still have had some Gaelic > speakers into the later 19th century. > > > Did the schools teach English from 1871 or were some of them totally > Gaelic. > > Even in Gaelic-speaking areas, the school would be taught in English. > > > If the > > latter, then it is more likely some of them would place a cross where > they were required > > to sign their name? > > I don't see why that should be. > > > It seems possible that children could write their name even if they > could not read, or was > > it the other way round; they could read but not write anything, even > their name, without > > encouragement. Those like mine who were born to parents in the printing > industry may be > > better off than others perhaps. > > By the later 19th century, children would be taught both to read and to > write. Among my ancestors (who were all in fairly humble circumstances) > I have come across only who failed to produce a signature when required > for purposes of Registration, and I think that was probably fairly typical. > > > Gavin Bell > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Received Yvonne and someone may get back to you if they have info in due course . . . hang in there. Ruth (NSW Australia) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yvonne" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 7:30 PM Subject: [ABERDEEN] Aboyne Cottage, Kemnay Hello Listers, Was wondering if my email was received to the forum about the above cottage? Regards Yvonne ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message